20:09:43 <ennael> #startmeeting 20:09:43 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Tue Feb 2 20:09:43 2016 UTC. The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:09:43 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 20:09:53 <ennael> #chair MrsB marja 20:09:53 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: MrsB ennael marja 20:09:54 <ennael> \o/ 20:09:57 <ennael> a long tome 20:10:00 <ennael> time 20:10:20 <MrsB> uh ohh 20:10:43 <ennael> :) 20:10:52 <marja> women powerrr 20:10:57 <ennael> I will start with a short review of finances :) 20:11:03 <ennael> #topic Mageia accounts 20:11:27 <ennael> just to let you know we have 20k€ on bank account and 1k€ on paypal 20:11:40 <ennael> and we have paid for all the goodies 20:11:41 <marja> woot 20:11:45 <MrsB> that's alot 20:11:49 <ennael> indeed 20:12:04 <wilcal> Party time :-)) 20:12:33 <ennael> as a side not we got 120€ interest in 2015 20:12:33 <sebsebseb> hi 20:12:41 <marja> hi 20:12:44 <ennael> as money is on a saving account 20:12:49 <marja> nice 20:12:54 <MrsB> do we need to buy anything else? 20:12:55 <sebsebseb> marja hi 20:13:20 <ennael> MrsB: well we need to think about some hardware 20:13:26 <ennael> maybe some hosting 20:13:31 <MrsB> no better time to buy it 20:13:40 <ennael> and also speak about design but that's a topic for today 20:13:48 <Akien> Yeah, the main question for servers is where to put them 20:14:03 <Akien> As soon as we find some free hosting, we could likely buy some new hardware indeed 20:14:11 <ennael> any question on financial side ? 20:14:17 <MrsB> put out a blog post 20:14:27 <sebsebseb> whats the main bit, I just joined so missed that 20:14:48 <MrsB> <ennael> just to let you know we have 20k€ on bank account and 1k€ on paypal 20:14:57 <MrsB> <ennael> and we have paid for all the goodies 20:15:18 <ennael> MrsB: I will try to write one in coming days 20:15:18 <sebsebseb> event goodies? 20:15:25 <ennael> to sum up all this 20:15:36 <MrsB> one to ask for hosting i mean 20:15:38 <wilcal> better known as "swag" 20:15:43 <ennael> #action ennael will write a blog post about Mageia donations 20:15:58 <sebsebseb> wilcal: it was nice to have something new at the stand at FOSDEM this time, pens :) 20:15:58 <MrsB> let people know what we need, they may come forward and offer it 20:16:01 <ennael> MrsB: wait we have some ideas, from fosdem 20:16:06 <MrsB> k 20:16:18 <ennael> shall we go to next topic? 20:16:25 <sebsebseb> wilcal: altough it seems I should have taken a few more than I actsually did for myself to in a way, but oh well 20:16:42 <MrsB> any questions for anne? 20:16:51 <Akien> ennael: fine by me 20:17:11 <ennael> ok 20:17:14 <Latte> no questions 20:17:24 <ennael> #topic FOSDEM 2016 review 20:17:28 <sebsebseb> Guten abend Latte :d 20:17:41 * sebsebseb has an idea who Latte is now :d 20:17:42 <ennael> Akien: would you like to speak about the stand ? 20:17:49 <Akien> Sure 20:17:53 <ennael> at first it was an amazing edition 20:18:07 <ennael> organizer are speaking about more than 7000 visitors 20:18:16 <wilcal> excellent 20:18:18 <MrsB> wow a big do 20:18:18 <Akien> It was my first attendance to the FOSDEM, so I can't really compare, but IMO it was *huge* and awesome :D 20:18:20 <sebsebseb> or uh... 20:18:52 <wilcal> growing? 20:19:10 <Akien> Our stand was relatively well located, on the main floor of the main exhibition building (to be honest I noticed only a few hours before the end of the event that there was a second floor for example :p) 20:19:38 <Akien> We did not have much space, but it was manageable, between the Gentoo and OpenMandriva stand 20:19:46 <MrsB> Did Herman find you Ok? 20:20:04 <Akien> Yes, Herman was there on Saturday and did a great job to man the booth 20:20:12 <sebsebseb> Akien: did you get to the AW building if not you missed a few stands there 20:20:12 <MrsB> ahh good 20:20:18 <sebsebseb> Akien: same for if you didn't get to H 20:20:30 <Akien> Together with Alien and Remmy most of the time, and marja and myself too were often around 20:20:37 <sebsebseb> but main stands are in the two K buidling floors yes 20:20:55 <sebsebseb> I helped out on Saturday at the stand quite a bit when I Got to FOSDEM 20:21:04 <sebsebseb> decided to stay at the stand rather than going to the AGM as well 20:21:30 <MrsB> what kind of interest was there? 20:21:48 <MrsB> and feedback 20:22:09 <Akien> There were quite a few people who still did not know about Mageia, especially younger enthusiasts who also don't really knew Mandrake/iva 20:22:25 <sebsebseb> a little at the stand on FOSDEM to, but I went to talks mostly on Sunday and even got to meet Mark Shuttleworth doing that :), who's that guy in the background who seems to know a lot about, oh it's Mark. took the opertunity to briefuly talk to him after that talk as well, and shook hands with him even 20:22:42 <Akien> And of course the typical guys who know all distros quite well but were curious to see what we have to propose, or what is our history with OpenMandriva 20:22:49 <sebsebseb> yes that's Ubuntu, but you don't just meet a millionaire every day etc 20:23:03 <ennael> sebsebseb: please can you let Akien finish :) 20:23:09 <sebsebseb> ennael: yes 20:23:29 <Akien> So to most people we explained the main assets of Mageia in our opinion: 20:24:05 <Akien> 1) Community-based. 2) Low entry barrier, we try to break the usual dev/user separation. 3) Awesome control center and user friendliness 20:24:20 <MrsB> good points 20:24:36 <Akien> People were quite receptive, even some who are hardcore Debian or Gentoo users said that they might consider recommending Mageia to newcomers 20:24:50 <ennael> great 20:25:35 <wilcal> intesting as at SCaLE most of the interest was the History of Mageia 20:25:51 <wilcal> coming from Mandrake/Mageia 20:25:58 <wilcal> Mandrake/Mandriva 20:25:59 <Akien> I haven't counted exactly but we were *a lot* of Mageia contributors and users at the FOSDEM, maybe 15 or more 20:26:01 <MrsB> I think we have to gently steer away from being the "newbie" distro though 20:26:26 <Latte> I experienced the same kind of question as in german exhibitions. Although Mageia is not so well known in Germany 20:26:39 <wilcal> in reality it's one of the oldest distros around 20:27:30 <ennael> it looks like new goodies had some nice feedback, pens and usb keys 20:27:34 <Latte> MrsB: why? There is nothing bad about "newbie" friendly 20:27:36 <marja> (off-topic, but wondering whether a new user at Fosdem tried just that and it failed: should installer be able to select and use a disk that's fully luks-encrypted, to wipe what's on it and start afresh?) 20:28:15 <Latte> BTW: I took some pens for the next CLT2016 in Chemnitz in MArch 20:28:32 <ennael> yep 20:28:57 <Latte> I did not take sticks without asking ;) 20:29:08 <Akien> Yes the new goodies had a good reception :) People maybe found our USB sticks a bit expensive, even though they are pretty cool IMO with their wood casing 20:29:14 <marja> Akien: probably more, because not all attended the dinner 20:29:55 <Akien> They cost us ~6€, so we put them for sale at 10€ on Saturday but had little success. On Sunday we tried 7€+ and it worked somewhat better, but in the end we likely handed out only a handful of them 20:30:22 <Akien> But there are a lot of goodies to buy everything at the FOSDEM, so people have to count their money :p 20:30:28 <MrsB> If we set ourselves up as newbie friendly in particular it narrows our field of interest. People are bound to then compare and score us against dedicated newbie friendly distros and as it's not really a main focus of ours (even though i think it is fmore friendly to newbies than alot of others) 20:30:46 <Akien> We did not sell many t-shirts either apart from Mageia contributors, but mostly because it was hard to make them noticeable 20:30:58 <Akien> The dark blue t-shirt on the dark blue table cloth did not really catch the eye :) 20:31:02 <wilcal> was there more interest in Mageia being a workstation or part of a network 20:31:23 <ennael> Akien: nope TS are quite hard to sale 20:31:29 <ennael> since 2 or 3 years 20:31:34 <ennael> in FOSDEM at least 20:31:46 * MrsB still wants one 20:31:55 * ennael hides 20:32:01 * ennael slaps ennael 20:32:05 <MrsB> lol 20:32:13 <marja> :-) 20:32:38 <ennael> so to sum up we have 430€ for this we 20:32:42 <MrsB> We should maybe look again at how we could possibly put goodies on sale somehow 20:32:49 <ennael> which the best one since the beginning nearly 20:33:06 <Akien> Nice :) 20:33:12 <wilcal> pens are everywhere 20:33:26 <Akien> Ah we also had free beer as in free speech to sell :D 20:33:31 <Akien> Donated by hupstream :) 20:33:32 <ennael> about tee-shirts I was thinking about proposing some online to be sold 20:33:55 <ennael> I can manage sending it. otherwise I will be killed soon, there are a lot of them at home :) 20:34:17 <wilcal> baseball caps? 20:34:19 <Latte> akien: it was a little under pressure ;) 20:34:26 <Akien> Latte: Yeah :D 20:35:38 <MrsB> not a bad idea wilcal 20:36:06 <wilcal> baseball caps are very popular over here 20:36:25 <sebsebseb> was eating cathcing up a bit still, but two comment here 20:36:28 <wilcal> i made my own Mageia baseball cap :-)) 20:36:28 <sebsebseb> 1. the Usb STICK 20:36:32 <MrsB> could think about getting some goodies in USA possibly 20:36:45 <wilcal> problem is how many 20:36:49 <sebsebseb> we had two things with the USB stick. one it was to expensive at 10 euros so had to be reduced to 7 on the second day 20:36:57 <sebsebseb> 7 being the cost of the usb stick how much it was bought for 20:37:01 <wilcal> I could have given away 2000 pens easy in the first couple days 20:37:03 <ennael> wilcal: if you don't mind habing it at home it's all ok 20:37:07 <sebsebseb> and people thought itw as small at 4GB 20:37:29 <wilcal> Next SCaLE is Jan 2017 20:37:38 <ennael> yep we have to plan this 20:37:45 <MrsB> sebsebseb: recommend selling at 5 and losing 1 euro 20:37:55 <wilcal> Most give away USB's are 4GB if not all 20:37:57 <Schultz> Morning all 20:38:03 <wilcal> They're cheap 20:38:07 <ennael> also we had the GA 20:38:09 <MrsB> morning Schultz 20:38:15 <sebsebseb> MrsB: yeah maybe next time, not sure how well the sales went on the second day at 7 euro instead of 10 20:38:38 <ennael> we were nearly 20 in the room whith is nice 20:38:45 <sebsebseb> what was the actsual feedback for pens? just people liked how we had that as well? 20:39:01 <MrsB> That's good ennael 20:39:03 <wilcal> I have a basic Trade Show question for all 20:39:07 <ennael> I have to write a summary and send it to ML 20:39:13 <sebsebseb> with two of us at the stand instead, myself included for that 20:39:18 <MrsB> yes probably best there 20:39:24 <MrsB> any highlights? 20:39:24 <ennael> we have some proposed ideas 20:39:35 <ennael> for bugzilla, packagers, and sysadmins 20:39:42 <sebsebseb> eatdirt and me were at the stand, and others at the meeting yeah 20:39:54 <ennael> btw we have a newcomer in sysadmin team 20:40:01 <ennael> a friend pf pterjan 20:40:19 <MrsB> saw that, and some mentoring too. We've always lacked a way for new admins to begin 20:40:28 <ennael> and as it was going in endless mail story it was proposed to have a beer and a meeting for sysadmins 20:40:39 <ennael> and things went on quicker than the last year :) 20:40:59 <ennael> basically migration of the last server will be done next we 20:41:16 <MrsB> \o/ 20:41:16 <ennael> and things are being setup to allow newcomer to contribute 20:41:33 <ennael> also a way to add a vote system in bugzimma 20:41:44 <ennael> bugzilla to give points to people using it 20:42:15 * marja looks forward to next we :-) 20:42:24 <ennael> also we spoke about reliability of our infrastructure and we may rent some dedicated servers for it 20:42:37 <MrsB> that's great. all encouraging stuff. This include the reviewboard too (is that what it was called) 20:42:38 <Akien> Not only a friend of pterjan but also an existing packager, danf ;) 20:42:43 <ennael> yes 20:42:53 <wilcal> I've a question for all 20:43:04 <ennael> Akien: the important thing is being known it's easier to integrate him inteam 20:43:04 <wilcal> What is it that we wanted to accomplish at FOSDEM and what did we accomplish? 20:43:16 <ennael> also 20:43:23 <Akien> ennael: Yes that's true :) 20:43:26 <sebsebseb> wilcal: getting Mageia out there promting it etc 20:43:27 <ennael> I insisted on openqa 20:43:30 <sebsebseb> als tow of us got interiewd I belive 20:43:39 <ennael> so that it can be deployed as soon as possible 20:43:40 <sebsebseb> someone wanted to itnerview someone for this university course so I did that 20:43:46 <wilcal> that's called "waving the flag" 20:43:50 <sebsebseb> and I thinik eatdirt got intervied for Hacker PUblic Radio 20:44:01 <ennael> it's on list and everybody agree it's important 20:44:01 <sebsebseb> for his above 20:44:18 <MrsB> openqa \o/ 20:44:30 <ennael> :) 20:44:45 <MrsB> Vlad is about ready to hand it over 20:44:51 <ennael> yep 20:44:53 <MrsB> you saw his email? 20:44:55 <wilcal> fwiw the hardest thing to do at a Trade Show is sell something 20:44:57 <ennael> I will answer his mail 20:45:20 <sebsebseb> wilcal: promote/market yep indeed. I did get a USB sold though at 10 euro :) 20:45:23 <MrsB> he's put alot of effort into that, taken it on as a project to get going 20:45:28 <ennael> yep 20:45:35 <sebsebseb> wilcal: two even I think it was 20:45:36 <ennael> so all in all a productive edition 20:45:52 <MrsB> isounds like it, well done those are idneed highlights 20:45:53 <wilcal> your a great sales person sebsebseb 20:46:03 <MrsB> +typos 20:46:23 <Akien> I was quite happy to finally meet so many Mageia contributors, after 5+ years :) 20:46:37 <wilcal> gathering of Eagles 20:46:49 <MrsB> you can speak every language going too Akien 20:46:50 * sebsebseb was happy to finally meet the famous in the Mageia world, blog post etc guy Akien :d 20:46:50 <Akien> I think we missed the opportunity for a cool group photo during the GA though 20:47:00 <Akien> But we had very little time 20:47:23 <ennael> ah also Bruno Cornec had some talks 20:47:24 <wilcal> time is very compressed at these things 20:47:27 <ennael> all using mageia 20:47:28 <sebsebseb> yeah maybe another stand photo of contibuers would have been good, but don't thinik it happended oh wel 20:47:37 <ennael> especially one about docker and packaging 20:47:38 <Latte> Akien: same for me - nice to get some faces behind Mageia 20:47:50 <MrsB> haven't checked the site for videos, they usually upload some 20:47:51 <ennael> the room was full and Mageia big :) 20:48:08 <sebsebseb> MrsB: yeah I think I will hear myself speak in some :d 20:48:22 <MrsB> dont let that spoil it sebsebseb ;) 20:48:29 <sebsebseb> asking a question I mean 20:48:30 <Akien> Yeah doing talks and taking the opportunity to showcase Mageia is a great thing :) 20:48:48 <ennael> I guess that's all on my side. 20:48:55 <ennael> anything to add ? 20:49:01 <MrsB> thanks for the roundup 20:49:01 <ennael> comment, questions 20:49:11 <sebsebseb> two of us got inteviewed at the stand 20:49:25 <MrsB> We should capitalise on the positivity with an early blog post 20:49:33 <Akien> There's always more to discuss, but I'd propose to move to the next topic - none of us like long meetings :p 20:49:35 <Akien> MrsB: +1 20:49:48 <sebsebseb> wilcal you should get your SCALE blog post done 20:49:52 <sebsebseb> wilcal: add in your photos etc 20:49:57 <wilcal> ok 20:49:57 <sebsebseb> then a FOSDME one should come up sepearlty to I thik 20:50:07 <sebsebseb> wilcal: remember the photo of you that's important 20:50:31 <ennael> https://pad.riseup.net/p/fosdem_mageia 20:50:32 <[mbot> [ Riseup Pad ] 20:50:57 <sebsebseb> wilcal: your on your own for the SCALE one or mostly I guess, but you'll be ok I expect :) 20:50:58 <Akien> bookmarked 20:51:05 <ennael> #action work on blog posts about FOSDEM 2016 and SCALE 20:51:39 <sebsebseb> wilcal: maybe you can link to all those SCALE photos, but blog post can only have like one or two I think 20:52:06 <ennael> you can add any photos you like 20:52:21 <wilcal> should we combine both FOSDEM & SCaLE? 20:52:27 <MrsB> it'll even do a picture gallery thing iinm 20:52:37 <sebsebseb> wilcal: no 20:52:46 <sebsebseb> wilcal: I thinik should have two seperate blog posts this time, SCALE and FOSDEM 20:53:04 <wilcal> have to figure out how to do that 20:53:18 <sebsebseb> a photo gallery on the blog oh didn't know that could be done, but that would be good :) 20:54:04 <ennael> ok next topic 20:54:09 <ennael> #topic Mageia 6 20:54:15 <ennael> heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell 20:54:16 <ennael> oups 20:54:59 <Akien> :D 20:55:02 <ennael> so 20:55:09 <ennael> we are about to rebuild isos 20:55:15 <MrsB> ahh cool 20:55:18 <ennael> big bug fixes included 20:55:33 <marja> \o/ 20:55:42 <Akien> ennael: make sure to ask pterjan to stop the build bot if not done already 20:56:04 <ennael> tmb froze the repository yesterday evening 20:56:08 <ennael> so we will give a try 20:56:19 <Akien> Ah right, you use a distinct repo for ISO building 20:56:53 <ennael> we rsync the official one 20:57:07 <ennael> to avoid it moving too much. It would break metadata 20:58:04 <wilcal> tried the boot.iso today and got past the not seeing the mouse/keyboard issue 20:58:19 <MrsB> when do you expect to do the build anne? 20:58:25 <ennael> after meeting :) 20:58:32 <MrsB> oh tonight ! 20:58:36 <ennael> yep 20:58:45 <MrsB> i'll email to let folks know then 20:58:52 <MrsB> know to expect it 20:58:53 <wilcal> so we should see something tomorrow 20:59:06 <ennael> I will send you an email if 1 or 2 can sync and check quickly it boots ok 20:59:14 <ennael> as I'm not at home and nasty bw 20:59:33 <MrsB> wilcal fancy being 1? 21:02:20 <ennael> he is hidding 21:02:35 <MrsB> yes, I'll catch him in a bit 21:02:39 <wilcal> i don't understand the question 21:02:58 <Akien> wilcal: We'll need someone to try the first ISOs ennael will upload fast, to check for obvious breakage 21:03:13 <MrsB> that, yes 21:03:13 <Akien> i.e. if isolinux is broken or something 21:03:26 <wilcal> Ahhh yes I could be the first one or the last 21:03:32 <MrsB> before it's announced on the list 21:03:42 <wilcal> I'll look in about 4-hrs 21:03:46 <ennael> thanks ! 21:04:49 <ennael> it would be great also to redefine the way people test and send feedbacks 21:05:02 <ennael> something like x people on iso y 21:05:14 <ennael> use pad only and bugzilla, not mail 21:05:40 <ennael> just to allow all of us to focus on some tools only to review these isos 21:05:57 <wilcal> clear out pad for this one 21:06:11 <MrsB> Yes we try to keep email reports to a minimum, but it's part of the process to email major bugs to qa-d and cc you or tmb 21:06:29 <ennael> well we had a lot of mails and reports everywhere 21:06:35 <ennael> a bit hard to follow 21:06:53 <MrsB> i agree, yeah. Will remind people 21:07:20 <MrsB> it's easy to email, so people do. Need to poke them back to the pad 21:07:31 <ennael> or at least one thread for one pb 21:07:41 <ennael> maybe tag the mail topic 21:07:54 <ennael> [mouse in installer] 21:07:56 <ennael> for example 21:08:07 <MrsB> rather keep it pad first, bugzilla and then email only if major issue 21:08:13 <ennael> ok 21:08:46 <Akien> I think emails to qa-discuss are ok, as it seems it's how the actual testers communicate best with each other 21:08:56 <Akien> But it should be made clear that it's not enough for the devs 21:09:14 <MrsB> qa are not really developers and qa-d is often the first ML they've used so they're often not as disciplined at dev 21:09:40 <Akien> Basically QA testers should assume that devs and ISO builders don't read *at all* the generic "I found this, this and that issue", so each of the topics discussed in MLs should be on the pad and bug reports 21:09:58 <Akien> Yes and that's fine IMO, qa-d is also their tool :) 21:10:28 <Akien> I've discussed a bit in private with ben IIRC to help him identify when a bug is worth reporting directly to bugzilla 21:10:40 <MrsB> we do have a process for this, it just needs a reminder occasionally 21:10:42 <Akien> So he's done a pretty good job at reporting issues he found on plasma, etc. 21:11:19 <Akien> Now it's actually more the devs that need to pitch in and have a closer look at all the 6dev1 issues to identify the critical ones 21:11:46 <MrsB> just enough to release dev1 for now 21:11:56 <Akien> I'll check that we have some useful saved searches and will try to give the tools on the dev ML 21:12:00 <Akien> MrsB: yep 21:12:15 <wilcal> gotta get to that working desktop 21:12:29 <MrsB> the tracker seems to be being well used 21:12:33 <MrsB> tracker bug 21:12:36 <wilcal> even if desktop don't work 21:12:43 <MrsB> yes, thats the aim 21:13:12 <wilcal> we're not there yet 21:13:27 <Akien> Actually dev1 is the hardest IMO 21:13:39 <ennael> indeed 21:13:44 <Akien> Because we're okay to have broken apps or desktops, but the hardest part of the distro is still the installer :) 21:13:50 <MrsB> it's a good thing though, that's how it's supposed to be 21:13:52 <ennael> lots of major updates but we had to do it 21:14:02 <Akien> Yes, once dev1 is rolling it should all be much smoother 21:14:07 <ennael> indeed 21:14:10 <ennael> (I hope) 21:14:18 <Akien> Especially with openqa if we can check the installer often and find regressions early 21:14:35 <MrsB> yeah, ideally it could run regularly 21:14:46 <ennael> anything about Mageia 6 ? 21:14:53 <wilcal> not from me 21:15:27 <MrsB> let's move on 21:15:39 <ennael> ok :) 21:16:03 <ennael> #topic Mageia 6 design 21:16:21 <ennael> during FOSDEM we met the guy who redesign gcompris 21:16:33 <ennael> if you remember Mageia made a donation last year 21:16:42 <MrsB> yes 21:16:47 <ennael> so 21:16:59 <ennael> I'd like to propose something 21:17:24 <ennael> as we have money for now, we could help a designer to redesign the look'n feel of mageia 21:17:29 <ennael> icons, side bars/// 21:17:31 <ennael> ... 21:17:59 <ennael> for example icons are the one we added in 2010 during the fork to replace mdv icons 21:18:11 <ennael> not well done and messy 21:18:15 <Schultz> Sounds great to me. I'd love to do it myself but I suck at design... 21:18:20 <ennael> design is the first impression for users 21:18:28 <ennael> so this guys is fond of mageia 21:18:34 <ennael> already contibuting a bit 21:18:46 <ennael> he is a designer working with open source software 21:18:52 <MrsB> which sidebars do you mean? 21:19:04 <Schultz> Would be great to create a full colour scheme and such for all desktops too 21:19:05 <ennael> for example the one with icons 21:19:51 <Akien> I'm all for the idea. The hardest part will be to properly define what can be changed easily 21:19:52 <ennael> I thought we could propose to pay a bit for it as it's a full time job 21:20:19 <ennael> Akien: I have some archive from mandriva for the designers, I can look for it 21:20:30 <Akien> For example a graphical redesign of the installer or the drakxtools would be awesome, but it would require a lot of work from developers too 21:20:48 <Schultz> Is that covered by copyrights or anything, would be nice to see it 21:20:53 <Akien> So we'll have to define the scope of what we want to change based on technical considerations 21:21:03 <MrsB> that's my main concern 21:21:25 <ennael> yep 21:21:29 <Akien> We have several options: 1) go with a redesign of everything that can be done without too much developer involvement 21:21:44 <Akien> That would be mostly icons, the background, the sidebars in the MCC and installer 21:21:51 <Schultz> There's also the sound scheme, there was lots of work on it, but nothing really final came. 21:22:00 <Akien> That's already a nice first time - won't change the complete look'n'feel, but already good IMO 21:22:34 <Akien> 2) make a detailed mockup of what we would *like* our tools to look like, and that requires heavy dev work. Could be a long term plan and come in a second time maybe 21:22:58 <sebsebseb> ok 21:23:03 <sebsebseb> just caught up a bit more 21:23:15 <sebsebseb> yes that's a good idea to pay for a professional desginer 21:23:17 <sebsebseb> if you got the cash 21:23:17 <Akien> Basically DrakX and the drakxtools still look like they did 6 years ago, we just changed some icons and background images, and switched from gtk2/oxygen to gtk3/adwaita 21:23:18 <ennael> can we vote for this ? 21:23:23 <sebsebseb> ennael: yep 21:23:54 <sebsebseb> will he use open source programs for design though or not :d 21:23:58 <ennael> (the wifi icon of drakx-net is the one I draw 5 years ago... :p) 21:24:05 <wilcal> we look like we looked in 2002 21:24:15 <sebsebseb> ennael: oh you did one 21:24:28 <Akien> My vote is: yes to devoting some money for that. But the first step would be a review of what has to be done, and I hope animtim (the designer) can get involved into diagnosing that with us as "normal" contribution 21:24:40 <sebsebseb> would the default background for Mageia 6 go under this design proposal to or possibly 21:24:45 <wilcal> headed for M6 or M7 21:24:45 <sebsebseb> we have had issues with art work contest in the past 21:24:53 <ennael> Akien: normal contribution ? 21:25:09 <Akien> ennael: I mean he and us should have a look at what has to be done, and the scope of the work first. 21:25:29 <Schultz> I agree that we need to modernise lots of the tools, akiens 2 stage idea seems good to me. 21:25:30 <Akien> Which is already some time-consuming involvement, but I don't think it should be paid for. 21:25:44 <Akien> But then animtim could evaluate the time he needs to actually do the design, and we would pay for that. 21:26:02 <Akien> (but I guess that's how it always work always for professional contracts anyway :)) 21:26:12 <ennael> indeed... 21:26:20 <sebsebseb> well as long as Atelier and Council is in the loop enough still 21:26:20 <MrsB> I think we should create clear criterea but can vote for or against the idea of paying for some work to be done - I'd be OK with paying for it as long as the work was defined before it is begun. Basically agree with what akien is saying. 21:26:28 <sebsebseb> I thinik as long as that go with a pro why not 21:26:35 <Schultz> Maybe aim for the non technical items for m6 and the tools and such for m7? 21:26:37 <ennael> ok for paying for it 21:26:57 <ennael> Schultz: this will be defined when we have a clearer view I guess 21:27:05 <sebsebseb> ennael: yeah proper graphics dsign takes time, and yeah, so ok with paying something for it, how much that depends a bit 21:28:00 <sebsebseb> the whole look of Mageia could do with a nice re design yes :) will make Mageia 6 looks quite new compared to previous versions :) 21:28:47 <Akien> So yes to make it clearer: +1 for paying for artwork production 21:28:48 <Schultz> Yeah I get that, it was more about expectations. Having a full baseline of everything would be the first step of course, just more that we should be aware that we can't expect the world for m6 21:28:54 <sebsebseb> Schultz: the non technical, do you mean icons and things like that? 21:29:15 <Schultz> If not obvious by now, +1 for me too 21:29:19 <ennael> the thing is he is available for now so read to help (side not) 21:29:21 <ennael> note 21:29:35 <sebsebseb> will he make a Mageia 6 background to maybe? we have had issues with artwork contest in the past 21:30:35 <Schultz> No technical is anything that doesn't need to involve dev input. 21:31:01 <sebsebseb> ok so icons and things ike that? 21:31:50 <Akien> I'll try to discuss with ennael and animtim what we can aim for more precisely 21:32:02 <ennael> anything else ? speak now or never :) 21:32:12 <wilcal> a comment 21:32:15 <wilcal> on design 21:32:22 <Schultz> We should still run the contest, its a good community involvement, but I can see how there might be a wrong message in running a contest and not using an image from there 21:32:40 <wilcal> typically you contract a designer to create 3 or more solutions then pick from them 21:32:41 <ennael> Schultz: it can be added in a background package 21:32:58 <wilcal> so start with that. about a 3-week effort 21:33:09 <MrsB> the other option is to award a monetary prize for chosen artwork 21:33:11 <wilcal> been there done that 21:33:18 <wilcal> too diverse 21:33:25 <wilcal> keep it to one chosen designer 21:33:36 <wilcal> too many irons in the fire 21:33:39 <Schultz> Yeah true, space isn't really an issue as it can be put in the extra pavkage 21:33:43 <sebsebseb> Schultz: or not using an image from there you mean, like one previous release 21:34:20 <ennael> we will speak with him first about it 21:34:34 <ennael> he did it for gcompris with douzens of activities 21:34:42 <MrsB> wilcal you mean get same guy to do icons and background? 21:34:43 <ennael> so I guess he will propose something 21:34:46 <wilcal> yes 21:34:53 <MrsB> harmonise 21:35:03 <wilcal> he will propose three somethings 21:35:10 <wilcal> all different 21:35:21 <wilcal> it's called product design 21:35:24 <Akien> Yeah I'd not be for awarding money in a contest 21:35:37 <Schultz> Yeah sounds good, he'll hopefully have some good input 21:35:43 <sebsebseb> we could have a professional background by the metnieond guy as the default in Mageia 6 21:35:47 <sebsebseb> or possibly 21:35:48 <Akien> The main difficulty is not to get some good proposals, it's to organise the whole stuff, chose something, integrate it in the distro, make sure it looks fine, etc. 21:35:57 <wilcal> has he got any other projects he's worked o 21:35:58 <wilcal> on 21:36:00 <sebsebseb> with a community submitted backgrounds artwork contest as well for addiontal backgrounds 21:36:10 <Akien> So paying an existing Mageia contributor and professional designer sounds fine to me, but not a random bounty hunter :) 21:36:19 <ennael> :) 21:36:19 <MrsB> it's an area we are weak (although current mga5 background is top notch imho) so paying takes the guesswork out of an issue which gives the important first impression 21:36:27 <Schultz> Similar for making the contest monitory, it just seems off 21:36:29 <sebsebseb> Akien: how is he an exsiting contributer,? 21:36:36 <sebsebseb> may have missed that 21:37:02 <Akien> sebsebseb: He's a long time Mageia user and works upstream on KDE tools, so to some extent he contributes to Mageia this way already. He's also an apprentice packager 21:37:15 <sebsebseb> Akien: oh right nice :) 21:37:25 <wilcal> he's as good a choice as any 21:37:28 <sebsebseb> well maybe pay him a little for labour on the design yep 21:37:38 <sebsebseb> but got to find out more about what he can do etc first of course 21:37:43 <wilcal> pay him for the first 3 themes 21:37:53 <wilcal> then pay him for the final design 21:38:14 <MrsB> what budget? 21:38:25 <wilcal> hmmmmmmmm!!!!! 21:38:35 <wilcal> USA terms or European terms 21:38:42 <MrsB> see what he proposes first i suppose 21:38:42 <sebsebseb> Euro I guess? 21:38:55 <Akien> I'd say see what is needed to be done first :) 21:38:55 <DavidWHodgins> Sorry I'm late. Have read the scroll back 21:38:58 <wilcal> ask him what he thinks the two projects are worth 21:39:06 <ennael> I propose to stop discussion for now, wait for first discussion with him and proposals 21:39:11 <Akien> ennael: +1 21:39:12 <wilcal> good idea 21:39:14 <MrsB> morning Dave 21:39:16 <ennael> anyway everything will be discussed first 21:39:17 <MrsB> ok 21:39:20 <Schultz> Sounds good 21:39:30 <Akien> At any rate the vote now was for an agreement on the idea of paying someone 21:39:30 <DavidWHodgins> I'm ok with hiring a designer too 21:39:34 <sebsebseb> yep got to find out more about the actsaul proposals, then can decide anything money related to do with that 21:39:48 <Akien> We haven't validated any proposal yet, we'll see first what has to be done, and what the design can propose 21:40:01 <ennael> ok marja I guess you had a topic ? 21:40:04 <sebsebseb> but I think we have a general agreement that, we are ok wtih paying a professioanl desgner a bit to re design Magiea, make it look well designed 21:40:20 <Akien> Then we'll have a true formal vote once there is a proposal, as it will likely involved a meaningful amount 21:40:29 <sebsebseb> Akien: indeed 21:40:38 <Akien> ennael: I think marja is away, she said she would leave at 22:00 CET 21:40:42 <ennael> argh yes 21:40:48 <ennael> so any other topic? 21:40:54 <wilcal> not from me 21:40:56 <sebsebseb> not fro me 21:40:58 <Akien> We could still discuss it briefly 21:41:27 <Akien> 5 min or so, as it's more a dev topic but having an initial council discussion can make sense 21:41:28 <sebsebseb> actusally one breif things, what was the actsual feedback for the pens at FOSDEM? 21:41:38 <Akien> (especially as having dev meetings is difficult :p) 21:42:00 <Akien> The #topic would be: Add manatools as fallback on the ISOs 21:42:23 <ennael> maybe we can ask her to mail on council ML 21:43:08 <ennael> on my side I'd like to go for building isos 21:43:11 <MrsB> if there's room on isos i don't see a problem with it, unless there are technical reasons not to atm 21:43:29 <ennael> we will have some issues for dvd64 for now 21:43:31 <Akien> ennael: yes good idea for the mail, I'll tell her 21:43:35 <ennael> it's just fat 21:44:22 <DavidWHodgins> That's bug 11446 21:46:44 <ennael> anything else ? 21:46:48 <Akien> So should we end the meeting? 21:46:50 <Akien> Not from me 21:46:57 <MrsB> good to go 21:47:04 <Schultz> Nope I'm good 21:47:08 <DavidWHodgins> Good here 21:47:08 <wilcal> i'm done 21:47:18 <MrsB> thanks anne 21:47:39 <ennael> have a good night and thanks for coming! 21:47:44 <ennael> #endmeeting