20:17:42 <ennael> #startmeeting 20:17:42 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Tue Nov 24 20:17:42 2015 UTC. The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:17:42 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 20:17:53 <ennael> hi all thanks for attending today 20:18:03 <MrsB> o/ 20:18:09 <papoteur> hi 20:18:15 <ennael> #chair MrsB marja 20:18:15 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: MrsB ennael marja 20:18:17 <ennael> girls ! 20:18:21 <MrsB> uhohh 20:18:22 <marja> lol 20:18:36 <ennael> ok first topic now 20:18:50 <ennael> #topic Mageia 6 development 20:19:27 <MrsB> it's a proper alpha \o/ 20:19:30 <ennael> :) 20:19:42 <ennael> to start with I'd like to make a proposal 20:19:46 <ennael> when dev1 is out 20:19:57 <ennael> about communication around dev1 20:20:22 <MrsB> definitely needs explaining to people 20:20:54 <Schultz> I'll start a blog about the name change and reasons why 20:20:57 <ennael> just publish it in memory of all people who died these last days because of those wanting to steal freedom 20:21:23 <Schultz> That too, very much that too 20:21:43 <papoteur> ennael: Good idea 20:21:48 <ennael> we are all here still shocked and that would be great to have such message 20:22:00 <MrsB> I think a simple non-specific statement like that would be enough 20:22:10 <Akien> Hm, I already expressed my concerns on this topic...But if everyone else wants to, that's fine by me. 20:22:27 <ennael> Akien: it's not about french people died 20:22:38 <ennael> but all those around the world 20:22:49 <MrsB> I don't think we need to comment on the politics of it, just thoughts to those who have passed 20:22:49 <marja> could we please mention the people dying in Syria and elsewhere, too, (also the innocent who die as collateral damage of our bombs) 20:23:12 <ennael> having a general statement could be enough as said MrsB 20:23:27 <ennael> otherwise we will certainly forget some 20:24:02 <marja> general is ok with me, if it is stated that it is for all around the world, so that there is no misunderstanding 20:24:06 <Schultz> I don't think that we should mention any countries, entities or any ideologies 20:24:16 <DavidWHodgins> Agreed 20:24:36 <marja> Schultz: ok 20:25:11 <Akien> I agree if it's general as Schultz says, but then I wonder why say something now? The world is not really a worst place right now than it was a year ago. 20:25:18 <Akien> Some of us are more affected, that's true. 20:26:13 <Schultz> if we keep it within the context of freedom as well, because we are an organisation that pushes for freedom, and while what has happened may not be directly related to software, it is related to freedom, and I guess that that is enough grounding, well for me anyway 20:26:30 <MrsB> something very simple and non-specific, not relating to any particular event or proposing any "side" 20:27:11 <papoteur> let' see what is the proposition of Schultz. 20:27:25 <MrsB> "suppression of freedom" type comment 20:28:09 <ennael> ok 20:28:24 <ennael> let's go back to mga6 and tests 20:28:28 <ennael> and hell 20:28:33 <MrsB> it's broken 20:28:35 <Schultz> for for why now, I think it is possible to be motivated to say or do something from an event, without what you do being specific to the event - so it probably is the case that most of use have been effected by the recent attacks more than manay others, but that doesn't mean that what we says motivated by them 20:30:30 <MrsB> Could we please change the rsync password before the next build 20:30:59 <marja> ouch, was it published 20:31:03 <marja> ? 20:31:06 <MrsB> there was an oops 20:31:21 <ennael> well tmb can do it 20:31:27 <ennael> or I can ask neoclust 20:31:37 <marja> well, we're good at oopsing :-) 20:32:08 <lebarhon> I made the oops, a copy/paste without thinking 20:32:18 <MrsB> either would do. There's no immediate rush as it's pretty broken anyway, but before next build is all 20:33:03 <marja> lebarhon: glad it wasn't me ;-) 20:33:06 <MrsB> good thing is it's right at the start and it's unlikely to happen again after today :) don't feel bad about it lebarhon 20:33:28 <ennael> ok so isos broken for now 20:33:51 <MrsB> yes, makes a change. normally not much has broken in first alpha 20:34:00 <MrsB> good to see in fact 20:34:37 <MrsB> Vlad has been experimenting with OpenQA 20:35:17 <MrsB> It's something I'd like us to follow up 20:36:05 <ennael> yep it was in plans for a while but missing time as usual 20:36:10 <MrsB> yeah 20:36:36 <MrsB> if he can put some time into it and get things to a point that we can work with I think it would be v.useful 20:37:03 <ennael> indeed 20:37:24 <MrsB> it'll need the server upgrades completed though, could maybe put it on a vm to play with 20:37:25 <ennael> I will take time now to switch stage2 and gfxboot to cauldron 20:38:49 <ennael> yep 20:39:03 <ennael> do we have already a pad for tests ? 20:39:11 <MrsB> I made one today 20:39:19 <ennael> thanks 20:39:31 <MrsB> https://pad.riseup.net/p/mga6-dev1 20:39:32 <[mbot> [ Riseup Pad ] 20:40:38 <ennael> question was about which isos we will build 20:41:00 <ennael> I don't remember any clear message about list of officil isos to be built 20:41:13 <MrsB> I think we're all kind of agreed to drop liveCDs but not reached an official decision 20:41:19 <papoteur> MrsB: there is still "Install Mageia 5" ;) 20:41:38 <ennael> this is gfxboot 20:41:40 <marja> well, weren't we considering a lighter DE for the LiveCD? 20:41:44 <ennael> to be modified nd rebuilt 20:41:53 <DavidWHodgins> I thought we did agree in one of the council meetings to drop the livecd iso images 20:42:09 <MrsB> a lighter DE is an option. 20:42:21 <MrsB> really need to see with tmb 20:43:02 <MrsB> but then if it's a lighter DE do they really need to be CDs 20:43:46 <MrsB> could just drop the CDs and add extra DVDs - but dropping lightens workload 20:43:49 <DavidWHodgins> The only reason to include the lighter de, as I understand it, would be for systems that only have a cd drive, not a dvd drive 20:43:50 <marja> MrsB: I think someone mentioned real old hw that can't boot from USB and has only CD drives 20:44:16 <MrsB> they're unlikely to be able to run a live cd anyway are they? 20:44:22 <DavidWHodgins> That has got to be very rare now. They can still use boot.iso on a cd 20:44:35 <Schultz> I thought it was something like we would keep all dvd images, and the dual cd covered the remaining cases 20:44:43 <marja> DavidWHodgins: didn't tmb mention third world countries? 20:45:09 <MrsB> live linux needs plenty of ram and any machine with that much ram will most likely be modern enough to have a dvd drive 20:45:10 <Akien> I think we should start with: dual DVD dropped, LiveCDs dropped. Let's see if we want another lightweight liveCD/DVD later on, depending on what tmb wants to do 20:45:19 <marja> DavidWHodgins: boot.iso won't work if you don't have a good network connection 20:46:00 <MrsB> at this stage at least, I agree with Akien 20:46:12 <marja> ok 20:46:24 <papoteur> yes 20:46:32 <DavidWHodgins> That sounds ok to me 20:46:34 <Akien> And about old hw and third world, I think they already weren't able to boot either KDE or GNOME live, so we're not letting them go 20:46:54 <Schultz> Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but isnt it normally the case that the live images are the problematic ones, so readding the dual cd surely wont be too much of an issue 20:46:58 <marja> Akien: true 20:47:10 <MrsB> dual is now a dvd so more useful, but just for ease of release we could do the two main classical isos and livedvds 20:47:22 <MrsB> wdyt ennael? 20:47:35 <Schultz> ah ok, that works then 20:47:43 <DavidWHodgins> Akien: I'm still running kde on a 2005 desktop system 20:47:51 <Stormi> well dropping dual was agreed, are we discussing it again? 20:48:16 <MrsB> morning Stormi 20:48:43 <Akien> Stormi: We just forgot what was agreed upon, and are too lazy to check the minutes :D 20:49:21 <ennael> well dual DVD was the one to be deleted even if I find it very practical 20:49:26 <ennael> but this is my opinion :) 20:49:46 <MrsB> I think the dual probably gives a bad experience for ppl expecting full mageia in both arches 20:49:46 <papoteur> Were was it said? ML, meeting? 20:50:10 <ennael> or we can propose a 64 bits server dvd 20:50:18 <ennael> instead 20:50:21 <MrsB> like to see that some day 20:50:28 <ennael> it's doable 20:50:31 <marja> ennael: all Luigi12_work's servers are 32bit, IIRC 20:50:53 <papoteur> :( 20:50:56 <ennael> then a dual server :) 20:51:01 <MrsB> lol 20:51:06 <ennael> no way then to have bad experience :) 20:51:06 <marja> :-) 20:51:14 <marja> indeed 20:51:16 <ennael> that coule be interesting 20:51:19 <ennael> could 20:51:33 <MrsB> should server iso have special installer though for server apps? 20:51:40 <Schultz> would be good, as I am sure that could still result in a base desktop system if desired too, would be very versitile 20:51:41 <papoteur> Thus, without DE? 20:52:18 <MrsB> server iso would be, usually 20:52:26 <ennael> we can have a very light DE 20:52:40 <Stormi> I still think we are very late in the process to have this discussion :) 20:52:45 <ennael> all professionnal servers distros propose it 20:52:47 <papoteur> The installer need X at least, sin't it? 20:52:54 <ennael> Stormi: it's not 20:52:59 <ennael> it's not started 20:53:06 <ennael> papoteur: nope 20:53:09 <marja> papoteur: no, text install is possible 20:53:27 <papoteur> Ah, OK, never seen ;) 20:53:30 <MrsB> we should still have it Stormi. What are your thoughts? 20:53:58 <Schultz> yep, either ice or something similar, at least being able to trawl the web while the servers serves stuff is probably a nice one for sys admins 20:54:21 <ennael> it's just a question of choosing packages and playing with compsuser 20:54:26 <ennael> so not a big deal 20:54:42 <ennael> and Luigi12_work could help testing it :) 20:54:48 <marja> :-) 20:54:50 <ennael> also we could ask siveo 20:55:00 <MrsB> let's ask people then. postpone that one. find out what people would want from a server iso. 20:55:26 <Schultz> would be good to have the ability to choose 32/64 installs, cant remember if that was there on dual or not 20:55:54 <Stormi> Well for once I would have liked that once things are settled (and we usually have a lot of discussion before we reach an agreement), we wait for the next cycle to discuss it again, unless there's a major change in the situation. It makes me feel we're turning into circles. That said, I'm mainly focusing on my bugsquad duties these days so I'm not specially impacted. 20:55:54 <papoteur> Schultz: no, if 64bits able, then 64bits. 20:56:23 <ennael> ok anyway isos are broken for now 20:56:32 <MrsB> So your opinion is that everybody is having opinions too late? 20:56:34 <ennael> whatfixes are we waiting for ? 20:56:39 <ennael> :) 20:57:11 <MrsB> problems on reboot, lots of emails to qa-discuss 20:57:20 <MrsB> script errors during install 20:57:29 <marja> I missed the bug reports :-/ 20:57:44 <ennael> ok got the mils 20:57:45 <ennael> mails 20:57:49 <MrsB> maybe not made it that far yet marja :( 20:58:22 <marja> MrsB: ah :-( 20:58:51 <MrsB> various suspects, from systemd to gdm 20:58:56 <ennael> great... 20:59:05 <ennael> did we ping coling ? 20:59:20 <MrsB> seems to try over 100 slices and eventually give up 20:59:30 <MrsB> not afaik 21:00:18 <MrsB> there is a systemd bug but we probably need some bug reports from testers and some debugging 21:00:35 <MrsB> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16684 21:00:38 <[mbot> [ Bug 16684 First execution of harddrake2 on fresh system takes forever ] 21:01:44 <DavidWHodgins> That would be the cause of the 8 minute delay I saw 21:02:53 <MrsB> also see qa-discuss from wilcal about 2:20 utc with images attached 21:03:03 <MrsB> 02:20 21:03:11 <Akien> vlad's video is pretty useful to see how it looks like: https://app.box.com/s/ogo8cg2g1z8ladzf51x8amp1fnja62za 21:03:31 <MrsB> yeah 21:03:31 <Akien> You might need to slow it down though :) 21:04:14 <Akien> But it shows at least that gfxboot is gorgeous and gdm goes wild 21:05:11 <MrsB> some emails from Olav too about gdm 21:05:16 <MrsB> this evening 21:09:30 <papoteur> What I found yesterday on Gnome: 21:09:34 <papoteur> I get a lot of "starting User Manager for UID 1000", "Started....", "Stopping...", "Stopped...", "Removed slice user-1000.slice.", Started Session c25 of user live." and so on... 21:09:36 <papoteur> [lundi 23 novembre 2015] [21:25:09] <papoteur> And no session. 21:10:41 <MrsB> that's the same as wilcal i think 21:10:55 <MrsB> and vlad 21:10:59 <papoteur> Another time, I get c75 instead of c25, by increment of 1 21:11:15 <papoteur> MrsB: sure. 21:11:18 <MrsB> that's the session number from loginctl 21:11:27 <blino> papoteur: do you have this as well? /usr/libexec/gdm-x-session[16573]: Authentication failed - cannot start X server. 21:12:35 <papoteur> blino: I don't remember exactly, but I get pb with authentication, yes. 21:13:20 <MrsB> wilcal's images don't show that blino 21:13:52 <papoteur> Thus nobody knows how to have solution for that? 21:16:14 <MrsB> it's a bug to fix :) 21:16:23 <ennael> we will not find it here tonight anyway 21:16:49 <papoteur> OK 21:16:51 <MrsB> I'll send an email and remind ppl to create bug reports 21:17:57 <marja> MrsB: were there any problems with intel graphic cards and sddm or plasma5? 21:18:27 <MrsB> afaict nothing boots properly yet 21:18:51 <MrsB> I've not had a chance to test them myself so far, hopefully tomorrow 21:19:40 <marja> I had to copy my local mirror and old isos over from a dying HD to a new one, hope to test tomorrow, too 21:20:27 <DavidWHodgins> bug 17216 filed for the crash I'm seeing in libgtk-3 21:20:58 <marja> DavidWHodgins: thx 21:21:54 <ennael> ok let see how it goes in coming hours 21:22:08 <ennael> anything else bout mga6? 21:22:31 <MrsB> not yet 21:22:58 <marja> MrsB: what should be put on the whiteboard, instead of 6alpha1? 6dev1 ? 21:23:19 <MrsB> goof question, whatever bugsquad wants to use :) 21:23:23 <MrsB> good* 21:23:36 <marja> Stormi: 6dev1 ok with you? 21:23:46 <Stormi> yes 21:23:59 <DavidWHodgins> Should we add the round too? 21:24:15 <MrsB> add date.txt in the comment 21:25:05 <marja> adding rounds would be ok with me, if we'd never have different round numbers for live and tradional 21:25:31 <DavidWHodgins> We have in the past 21:25:41 <marja> i know :-/ 21:26:07 <ennael> at least it will help to describe exact context 21:26:09 <marja> DavidWHodgins: or did you mean that we added round numbers on the whiteboard? 21:26:35 <DavidWHodgins> Yes, I meant the whiteboard. Adding the date.txt in the comment works just as well. 21:27:02 <DavidWHodgins> Probably better, as it's easy to lose count of the rounds. 21:27:02 <marja> ok 21:27:08 <marja> indeed 21:28:25 <marja> #agreed we'll put 6dev1 etc on the whiteboard of bugs found during iso testing, and date.txt in the description or comment 21:29:27 <MrsB> shall we move on? 21:29:32 <marja> yes 21:29:39 <ennael> anything else on mga6? 21:29:46 <marja> not here 21:29:51 <DavidWHodgins> Nothing else here 21:30:13 <ennael> ok :) 21:30:18 <ennael> #topic event management 21:30:40 <ennael> so this is about general orgnization of events 21:30:52 <ennael> we had recently in Paris open source summit 21:31:46 <ennael> and thanks to lebarhon and magnux77 21:31:51 <ennael> we had a booth there 21:32:07 <MrsB> nice :) 21:32:10 <lebarhon> dtux also was there 21:32:19 <MrsB> how did it go? 21:32:23 <ennael> yes sorry :) 21:32:48 <ennael> lebarhon: if you are ok can you have a sum up for the blog? 21:33:25 <lebarhon> ok, not much to say 21:33:45 <ennael> anyway the topic is about improving the way we manage this 21:33:46 <lebarhon> how long ? 21:33:55 <ennael> as you want :) 21:34:30 <ennael> just explain what happened there, visitors, ... 21:34:57 <lebarhon> OK, I can write a few lines, who will publish the blog ? 21:36:11 <lebarhon> I will send the sum up to Atelier 21:36:15 <ennael> just ping here, me or stormi or kien 21:36:47 <lebarhon> fine 21:37:10 <ennael> so this topic was also about how we can improving things 21:37:26 <ennael> registation to events, looking for volunteers, goodies, ... 21:37:38 <ennael> again event box idea 21:38:08 <MrsB> this should really be stuff for Atelier 21:38:40 <MrsB> Schultz? 21:39:17 <Schultz> yeah feel free to send it to the list, I'll publish it when its there 21:40:49 <MrsB> any planning for events Schultz? 21:41:54 <Schultz> if memory serves there is a box of event goodies in europe somewhere, it would be good to get a status of this, if anything needs updated and such 21:42:04 <lebarhon> ennael: did you get back the Tshirts? 21:42:09 <ennael> not yet 21:42:15 <ennael> should be done in coming days 21:42:38 <Schultz> Also, the usb keys, I cant remember if tha discussion resulted in them being ordered, did that go ahead? 21:42:59 <ennael> it's been ordered and received 21:44:09 <Latte> we were also present in ORR in Oberhausen/Germany beginning of Nov 21:44:21 <Latte> but we managed to be there only on Saturday 21:44:37 <Latte> a lot of people were ill and we had no material :( 21:44:58 <ennael> if we were aware of this we could have sent some 21:45:03 <ennael> that's what is missing 21:45:47 <Latte> T-shirts and Poster were nere by, but Magnus was ill on short notice 21:45:57 <ennael> ok 21:46:11 <Akien> ennael: So do the USB stick work fine (and look good)? :) 21:46:22 <ennael> lebarhon: ? 21:46:31 <Schultz> would setting up a wiki page with when the events are, whats needed, whos going and such be useful? 21:46:50 <lebarhon> Yes they are working fine and people sais they are beautiful 21:47:01 <ennael> :) 21:47:02 <lebarhon> *sais/said 21:47:27 <lebarhon> may be not cheaper enough :) 21:47:51 <Latte> but we had our show device. A Sony Vaio tablet with touchscreen. An eeye-catcher 21:48:19 <marja> Latte: ah, alfred's? 21:48:30 <marja> Latte: that one is really nice with Mageia :-) 21:48:36 <Latte> marja: yes 21:49:22 <lebarhon> Somebody wrote a book about Mageia (12€) I think we could by one and show it in the booths 21:49:36 <Latte> on saturday at least something on the booth. But Alfred was only there on Saturday. And on Sunday I would have been alone, without anything to show 21:49:36 <lebarhon> a French book 21:49:38 <marja> lebarhon: in French or in English? 21:49:40 <marja> ah 21:50:24 <marja> Latte: I can understand you prefferred to close the booth on Sunday.. sorry that I couldn't be there 21:51:15 <Latte> just bad luck that some many of us were hit 21:51:21 <marja> yep 21:51:29 <Latte> marja: the book: https://forums.mageia.org/en/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10466&p=60653 21:51:30 <[mbot> [ Mageia forum View topic - Book: Discover free (with Mageia) ] 21:52:13 <marja> Latte: thx for the link 21:55:42 <marja> are we all dozing off now? 21:55:56 <DavidWHodgins> Pretty much. :-) 21:56:02 <ennael> looks so... 21:56:23 <marja> ennael: can we close the meeting? 21:56:37 <DavidWHodgins> Last topic? Financial review 21:56:43 <marja> ah, yes 21:56:52 <ennael> yep... looks like it will go nowhere now :) 21:56:56 <ennael> I will send an email 21:57:00 <DavidWHodgins> Ok 21:57:00 <marja> ennael: thx 21:57:04 <ennael> I'm waiting for some information from the bank 21:57:11 <ennael> I do it as soon as it's done 21:57:16 <marja> ok 21:57:35 <ennael> ok thanks for being there and have all a good night 21:58:10 <ennael> #endmeeting