20:12:21 <ennael> #startmeeting
20:12:21 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Mon Jul 20 20:12:21 2015 UTC.  The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:12:21 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
20:12:29 <ennael> hi all and welcome back
20:12:54 <marja11> Stormi: doktor5000: coling: leuhmanu: meeting time ;-)
20:12:55 <papoteur> Hi
20:13:52 <marja11> Latte: welcome in the meeting
20:14:06 <ennael> ok
20:14:22 <coling> Sorry I'm late
20:14:36 <ennael> so the point today is to speak about team's activity especially post mortem and what to do later to start with mageia 6
20:14:46 <ennael> volunteers to start?
20:15:15 <marja11> for docteam there's already a lot in the wiki
20:15:34 <marja11> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia5_Postmortem#Documentation
20:15:51 <marja11> and for Bugsquad, we didn't discuss it yet
20:16:17 <ennael> great! big work done
20:16:46 <ennael> what are your main projects for coming month ?
20:16:51 <ennael> (except swimming :p)
20:16:55 <marja11> lol
20:17:41 <marja11> what should be *my* main project is finding a bunch of new Dutch contributors
20:17:53 <marja11> for Mageia
20:18:39 <papoteur> We have check the Official documentation for UEFI changes, again.
20:19:20 <papoteur> And to complete for stuff we have not yet documentation.
20:19:58 <marja11> tmb about UEFI, is it possible, with some parameters added in the boot screen, to do a legacy install after heving booted the iso in UEFI mode?
20:20:01 <papoteur> For wiki, we lack the internationalisation part.
20:20:46 <marja11> papoteur: thx for mentioning that
20:21:34 <marja11> a big thx to the translators who couldn't be stopped in spite of the bad working circumstances for them in our wiki
20:21:47 <papoteur> THe scope of wiki documentation is enlarging, for example with owncloud, android synchronisation.
20:22:46 <papoteur> We hope that some contributors continue to add some pages.
20:22:49 <tmb> marja11, not for now... I was thinking of adding it but decided to not do it during mga5 development, as it would have added more needed testing
20:23:14 <tmb> I will add it for mga6
20:23:20 <marja11> tmb: thx  .... doktor5000 ^^^
20:23:53 <marja11> doktor5000: that is about legacy install after booting in UEFI-mode
20:23:54 <papoteur> I think it's all for documentation team. Marja?
20:24:18 <marja11> papoteur: I think so, and else we'll have something to say in next meeting :-)
20:24:28 <marja11> papoteur: thx!
20:24:36 <papoteur> :)
20:25:16 <ennael> ok thanks alot
20:25:23 <ennael> next team?
20:26:21 <tmb> for sysadmins, we have not done anything yet, but need to schedule a meeting to get things moving
20:26:54 <ennael> maat is waiting for your go :)
20:27:38 <ennael> also if we have to buy some hardware/hosting just make a list
20:28:00 <ennael> Mageia received 1500€ donation last month
20:28:22 <marja11> nice... from a person or from an organisation?
20:28:35 <ennael> donations added
20:28:44 <marja11> ah, still nice :-)
20:29:29 <papoteur> nice
20:30:29 <ennael> ok so we will learn more after this meeting
20:30:53 <tmb> yep
20:31:00 <ennael> ok :)
20:31:03 <ennael> next ?
20:31:53 <philippem> just a note about hosting, I'm in touch with tetaneutral.net (Toulouse France, 1 hour by car from me) in case we have some needs
20:32:45 <ennael> philippem: you may know obinou
20:34:31 <ennael> ok anybody for QA team ?
20:36:09 <tmb> seems not.
20:36:10 <Luigi12_work> postmortem discussions are continuing on the qa-discuss list
20:36:20 <Luigi12_work> I think lewys's plan was for them to continue for a few more weeks
20:36:23 <Luigi12_work> guess we'll get a report later
20:36:40 <ennael> ok
20:37:04 <ennael> for packagers team, I'd like to restart work with Akien not on my own
20:37:33 <ennael> we already worked on a pad to propose some ideas for both post-mortem and we could organize thinges in a better way for coming release
20:38:06 <ennael> mainly meetings, mentoring, packages maintenance, development
20:38:48 <ennael> still we have one point maybe to decide tonight
20:39:03 <ennael> about schedule
20:39:14 <ennael> I've read a lot of mails about it on QA ML
20:39:22 <ennael> did you all have a look ?
20:39:48 <marja11> I read part of the mails, not all of them
20:39:58 <tmb> yeah, I've started reading them
20:40:11 <papoteur> yes for me.
20:40:23 * tmb have a huge mail backlog
20:40:31 <Luigi12_work> sounds like the conclusion isn't to change much for the schedule itself, but maybe how it's communicated
20:41:39 <tmb> and more "fuzzy dates" so instead of saying May 15th, we would simply state May and so on ...
20:42:00 <ennael> ok so focus on communication but keep some deadlines
20:42:16 <ennael> tmb: have you seen the proposal about releasing for FOSDEM ? :)
20:42:30 <tmb> but we need some specific timelines so we can decide what DE versions to go for...
20:42:40 <tmb> ennael, yeah :)
20:43:07 <ennael> I have a proposal just tell me what you think about
20:43:18 <ennael> managing dev during summer is a bit tricky
20:43:36 <ennael> what about starting dev schedule after 20th of august?
20:43:37 <tmb> FOSDEM would put mga6 release cycle short
20:43:42 <ennael> indeed
20:44:02 <Luigi12_work> when's FOSDEM?
20:44:19 <ennael> last we of january
20:44:33 <marja11> 30 & 31 January 2016
20:44:45 <ennael> then you have to manage christmas time again...
20:45:19 <ennael> starting 20th of august we could have 9 month release in april
20:45:22 <tmb> that would make mga6 mostly a "update packages, polish stuff done in mga5" and move bigger changes to mga7
20:45:23 <ennael> 2016
20:45:30 <Luigi12_work> based on what I've seen working with Mageia the last 3.5 years, the January-February time frame for a release in general seems good.  Obviously having FOSDEM as a hard deadline isn't ideal.  We can always have our newest release available there, whatever that happens to be.  If it's recent, that's great, if not, not the end of the world.
20:45:31 <ennael> wdyt ?
20:46:00 <marja11> april sounds good to me
20:46:06 <marja11> to aim for
20:46:12 <Luigi12_work> given how far behind I'll be even starting to work on mga6 package updates, April sounds about right to me
20:46:16 <grenoya> looks a good aim
20:46:32 <ennael> tmb: wdyt?
20:46:46 <Luigi12_work> also comes before my schedule gets crazy with championship track meets in May
20:46:53 <ennael> :)
20:46:54 <marja11> Luigi12_work: :-)
20:47:12 <ennael> Luigi12_work: you have to manage a way to come to FOSDEM this year!
20:47:19 <ennael> we need to kill you for real :)
20:48:00 <Luigi12_work> LOL
20:48:18 <tmb> yeah, no objections as such, but iirc Gnome and KDE has major release around March... does that mean we keep pushing unstable stuff in beginning of year to get it stable for mga6 ?
20:48:37 <Luigi12_work> current schedule for early next year (not yet finalized IIRC) has me teaching January 19-February 1
20:50:15 <ennael> tmb: indeed we have to check but we need to speak about DE support more generally speaking
20:51:45 <Luigi12_work> agreed on both points
20:53:02 <ennael> ok so we agree on keeping a public schedule, improve communication on it and have mga6 released in  april 2016
20:53:09 <ennael> just answer
20:53:11 <ennael> OK
20:53:20 <Luigi12_work> OK
20:53:22 <tmb> OK
20:53:35 <marja11> ok
20:55:27 <ennael> ok then
20:59:38 <ennael> anything else ?
20:59:53 <marja11> not here
21:00:48 <tmb> post to -dev ml about suggesting features for mga6 ?
21:01:13 <ennael> yep
21:01:26 <ennael> I will prepare wiki pages for this
21:01:33 <ennael> as we did previously
21:01:53 <marja11> thx
21:02:00 <tmb> yeah, and a deadline for when we will start reviewing the suggestions...
21:02:07 <ennael> yep
21:04:59 <tmb> another thing... any objections to pushing the new virtualbox 5.x to mga5 ? it comes with some real speed improvements, usb3 support and so on, more here: https://www.oracle.com/corporate/pressrelease/oracle-vm-virtualbox-5-070915.html
21:05:01 <[mbot> [ Oracle VM VirtualBox 5.0 Now Available ]
21:05:21 <Luigi12_work> no objections, just as long as we get sufficient time to test
21:05:23 <marja11> that would help testers
21:05:38 <Luigi12_work> there was one virtualbox update a while ago that was pushed too fast
21:05:58 <Luigi12_work> anyway, we're moving our student desktops to Mageia at work, and they're using VirtualBox for some of their VMs now
21:06:06 <Luigi12_work> so I just need to test it :o)
21:06:16 <ennael> looks a good idea
21:06:20 <marja11> :-)
21:06:30 <tmb> yeah, it does not need to be rushed...
21:06:36 <Luigi12_work> I'd assume the 5.0 update would be necessary anyway, so it can run mga6-cauldron properly
21:07:09 <tmb> it would help to keep mga5/6/cauldron in sync yes
21:10:34 <ennael> ok anything else?
21:10:35 <tmb> for kernel I wonder if I should jump to 4.1 LTSI now as skylake will be released in the beginning of next month, but that might mean a second jump to ~4.2 whenever gregkh decides wich the next -longterm one is
21:11:49 <ennael> LTSI looks a good idea but again work is on QA side also
21:12:05 <marja11> I wish I knew why AL13N seemed to fear the 4.* kernels
21:12:29 <Luigi12_work> many things broke with 3.0 just because of the 3, code assuming kernels would always be 2.6.x
21:12:36 <ennael> the first one were very buggy
21:12:50 <Luigi12_work> hopefully enough of the fixes at that time were smart enough that it won't happen again with 4.0, but there are probably still some things that broke
21:12:57 <marja11> Luigi12_work: thx for the explanation
21:13:57 <Luigi12_work> ideally it'd be good if things settled down enough in Cauldron that people that like to use it were using it again, so they could find some of the subtle issues if there are any before we backport
21:14:13 <Luigi12_work> obviously that's balanced against making mga5 work if new hardware is becoming available that it won't work on
21:14:29 <tmb> yeah, 4.0 was panful, but 4.1 seems to behave nicely and is already running on cauldron for many users, and we now have all nonfree drivers available that works with it
21:14:40 <Luigi12_work> that's good to hear
21:14:46 <marja11> :-)
21:15:12 <Luigi12_work> oh that reminds me, since this is a council meeting, the mailing list discussion about formally amending the policy to allow updating things for hardware support never reached a conclusion, it just petered out
21:15:30 <Luigi12_work> it'd be nice if we could reach a conclusion on that some time soon
21:15:48 <Luigi12_work> as it pertains to hplip specifically, regressions were found, so we're not still trying to push it at this time
21:16:00 <tmb> indeed... we forgot about that one :/
21:17:14 <tmb> I think we should allow updating for new hw support as long as we dont drop support for older hw
21:18:07 <marja11> yes. however, we'll never be able to test whether there are regressions on every related piece of older hw
21:18:20 <tmb> and if there are known regressions, it wont be pushed like the hplip is now on hold
21:18:46 <marja11> but for corner cases that aren't found during testing, users can downgrade the package
21:18:52 <marja11> even if that isn't ideal
21:19:32 <tmb> marja11, true, I was thinking of when we "know it drops some hw support" it cant be an update in a stable release
21:19:51 <marja11> tmb: I agree with that
21:20:04 <Luigi12_work> yeah, nvidia for instance is explicit about what they did, but the hplip case is just an unintended regression
21:20:12 <tmb> for example when amd drops older gpu support in a new driver and so on
21:21:22 <tmb> yeah, it wont ever be fool-proof, but we'll try our best
21:21:37 <Luigi12_work> yep, just have to use proper care and common sense
21:22:42 <tmb> agreed
21:24:43 <marja11> +1
21:24:53 <tmb> that's all I have
21:25:02 <marja11> (how many of us need to be around for a decision?)
21:25:10 <ennael> agreed
21:28:06 <marja11> zzzzzz ;-)
21:28:24 <marja11> ennael: maybe time to end the meeting?
21:28:42 <Luigi12_work> unless anyone else has anything, I think so
21:28:59 <ennael> yep ok then
21:29:08 <ennael> thanks for attending despite summer time :)
21:29:23 <ennael> see you in 2 weeks if it's ok for you
21:29:25 <marja11> ennael: thanks for having chaired the meeting!
21:29:32 <marja11> fine
21:30:11 <ennael> #endmeeting