19:33:21 <ennael> #startmeeting
19:33:21 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Mon Jun 29 19:33:21 2015 UTC.  The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:33:21 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:33:33 <ennael> hi all and welcome back in hell
19:33:42 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
19:33:45 <sebsebsebb> hi
19:35:02 <tmb> yeah, hi
19:36:33 <ennael> so the meeting tonight is about restarting everything after mga5 release
19:36:48 <ennael> maybe we could go team by team
19:36:55 <sebsebsebb> ok
19:37:04 <ennael> tmb: want to start for sysadmins.
19:37:05 <ennael> ?
19:38:53 <tmb> well, infra will be upgraded to mga5, and if nothing else works. I will go to the DC myself to finish up stuff that has been waiting way too long
19:39:56 <ennael> (and visit south of France :) )
19:40:11 <sebsebsebb> on M
19:40:16 <sebsebsebb> Mageia funds?
19:40:20 <tmb> after that the plan is to set up a mirrorbrain, and some redundancy regarding primary services so we can survive one DC going down
19:41:05 <tmb> then we have a long over-due wiki & forum upgrade
19:42:09 <tmb> thats the plans for now...
19:42:17 <ennael> ok :)
19:42:21 <marja> sounds good
19:42:22 <ennael> questions ?
19:42:34 <DavidWHodgins> Not here.
19:42:36 <sebsebsebb> nope
19:42:44 <marja> yeah, must all Mageia servers be in France?
19:42:52 <sebsebsebb> I think all are?
19:43:02 <sebsebsebb> except mirrors obviously
19:43:11 <marja> asking because of the needed redundancy
19:43:18 <wilcal> I think server #2 must be in Europe
19:44:31 <tmb> marja, well, the reason we have stuff in France is that they are free (almost all)
19:44:59 <DavidWHodgins> We have some scattered thunderstorms rolling through this area again, so I may be offline quickly.
19:45:24 <marja> tmb: the reason I ask is because I know some people working for two different ISPs, at least one of them used to offer free server space to open source projects
19:45:30 <wilcal> Rack space and bandwidth is free not the servers right?
19:46:04 <tmb> but when we redo the infra design for primary services (web, mirror api, ...) then they will be on 2 different isp
19:46:26 <tmb> but yes, if we can find a second "free hosting" we can look at it
19:47:35 <marja> tmb: do we need to run our own servers, or would using some server space for free be useful, too?
19:48:11 <marja> tmb: just for some redundancy
19:48:48 <tmb> marja, well, for web / mirror api / ... we can use server space (virtual servers), but we'd realy like to be able to run Mageia on them :)
19:49:05 <marja> tmb: of course :-)
19:49:30 <marja> tmb: i'll ask
19:51:13 <tmb> one other alternative I have been thinking of is hosting some on the duplicated services on my own servers here at home as I soon will get my optical connection ...
19:51:31 <ennael> tmb: what about including new guys in team?
19:52:01 <sebsebsebb> optical connection whats that?
19:52:02 <marja> tmb: that would be a great alternative (so you can more easily kick the machine when needed :-) )
19:52:16 <DavidWHodgins> sebsebsebb: fiber optic
19:52:23 <sebsebsebb> oh ok
19:53:10 <tmb> ennael, yeag, that is also on the todo after we get up to mga5.. I plan to redesign the infra so we can split privilegies without handing out root access to everyone new...
19:53:35 <marja> \o/
19:53:41 <ennael> that would be great
19:56:52 <ennael> next team?
19:57:06 <DavidWHodgins> I'll go next for qa.
19:57:12 <ennael> ok tha,ks
19:58:03 <DavidWHodgins> We are not doing too badly at testing updtes. The biggest holdup right now, is me getting the advisories added to svn. I'll try to do more of it.
19:58:42 <DavidWHodgins> And perhaps try to get more people authorized and trained how to add the advisories.
19:59:25 <DavidWHodgins> It'll be nice in September when we are back to just supporting one release.
20:00:01 <DavidWHodgins> Other than the advisories, quite a few of the team members are helping with testing.
20:00:22 <wilcal> Subscript to that the QA team is still tired. I'd give it a couple weeks or more before it's completely back on it's feet
20:00:57 <DavidWHodgins> So except for the advisories, nothing much else to do, except let people recover from all of the iso testing.
20:01:22 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: Anything else to add, or is that it for qa?
20:02:05 <wilcal> You did well David. I agree we are getting a hand on the bugs but if a bunch show up the ships gonna crack
20:02:48 <DavidWHodgins> As always, we still need to convince more people to help with testing, especially with unusual hardware.
20:03:12 <DavidWHodgins> I think that's it for the qa team.
20:03:22 <ennael> ok thnks
20:03:28 <ennael> next one?
20:05:31 * marja now remembers she doesn't know whether the manuals for Mageia 5 got updated on doc.mageia.org
20:05:56 <ennael> want t speak for docteam?
20:06:04 <marja> yeah, OK
20:07:22 <marja> we had some very last minute updates of the documentation,  because of late changes in DrakX and because we only knew near final release how UEFI installing would go
20:08:08 <marja> so the Mageia 5 documentation was all nicely added on mageia.org
20:08:31 <ennael> ok so it's updated now?
20:08:45 <marja> but then there were updates, and I forgot to ping in my request to update the Mageia 5 documentation on atelier ml
20:08:52 <marja> ennael: not sure
20:09:03 <marja> grenoya: ?
20:09:12 <DavidWHodgins> It would probably be good to add a line with "last modified" to the index page.
20:09:24 <marja> DavidWHodgins: good idea
20:09:43 * marja will mail atelier again, and add DavidWHodgins' idea
20:10:54 <marja> something very different, but related to docteam, because docteam is responsible for the wiki
20:11:36 <marja> a lot of our documentation about packaging is not up to date
20:11:59 <ennael> yep ?
20:12:09 <marja> but without knowing a whole lot about packaging, it is hard to discern what can/should be removed/updated etc
20:12:41 <ennael> ok we can take it in packagers team and ask people to check it
20:12:45 <marja> ennael: thx
20:13:54 <marja> when do you all think docteam should start writing help files for manatools?
20:15:37 <marja> my first idea was now, right after Mageia 5 release, but only in English and keep it untranslated for now (at least till after Mga 6)
20:17:21 <marja> but I'm less sure now, maybe we should spare our energy until more manatools are available?
20:17:55 <ennael> at least a global review for this work
20:18:17 <marja> ennael: ?
20:18:21 <tmb> well... first question is... it it really atleast same level as drakx toolss.... and there has not been any decision to switch.... and every bit needs reviewing...
20:19:08 <marja> some tools are available, but not all drakx tools have been ported, yet
20:19:51 <marja> and anaselli needs help with the looks of the tools
20:20:21 <marja> and well, he is pretty much doing it alone now
20:20:27 <tmb> I guess manatools maintainers would be happy to have documentation... but since no ddecision to switch is done, it could be for nothing...
20:21:09 <tmb> it's a chicken and egg situation right now ...
20:21:40 <marja> tmb: is it possible that there'll be an in between stage: that there is no switch, but that the tools are available on the isos for who wants to try them?
20:22:27 <tmb> marja, well, that's usually how its done to get more testers
20:22:41 <marja> tmb: starting with the documentation when the decision to switch is made, is too late, but I don't want to waste docteams energy, either :-/
20:23:02 <marja> tmb: that would be a good moment to add documentation, I think
20:23:23 <ennael> maybe we can wait for mga6 specifications
20:23:35 <marja> ennael: yep
20:23:58 <tmb> yeah.
20:24:10 <ennael> anything else for docteam ?
20:24:12 <marja> so only start working on the manatools documentation when it is decided they'll be on the isos
20:24:19 <marja> nothing else
20:24:20 <ennael> indeed
20:24:26 <ennael> thanks marja :)
20:24:36 <ennael> people for i18n around ?
20:24:45 <Latte> yes
20:26:11 <Latte> there was a complaint that the latest changes in the installer are not comunicated very well
20:26:40 <Latte> so for the russian installer some strings seems not not be translated
20:26:50 <ennael> do we have taht piece of code that send automatic msg when new change is committed ?
20:27:47 <Latte> to be honest I'm still lacking knowledge about the process with the translation pushed from git to transifex and back
20:28:11 <ennael> marja: any idea about it?
20:28:20 <Latte> usually I react on the messages from transifex
20:28:30 <marja> ennael: when a pot file gets updated, a message is sent to i18n-reports
20:28:44 <marja> ennael: but nearly no one is a member of that list
20:29:40 <tmb> well, that need to be communicated better then...
20:29:46 <marja> (and there are sometimes so many messages there, that it is easy to miss the ones about pot files, between all the translation updates?
20:30:16 <marja> s/\?/)/
20:30:24 <tmb> there is no point of automatic messages if no-one tracks it...
20:30:30 <ennael> indeed
20:30:32 <DavidWHodgins> 2592 messages since May 2013
20:31:09 <tmb> thats ~2 days of mail for me :)
20:31:10 <Luigi12_work> so the list gets more than notifications of pot file updates?  Maybe it should only get those.
20:31:14 <Luigi12_work> hello BTW :o)
20:31:38 <marja> Luigi12_work: well, it gets every translation update, and that is useful
20:31:50 <DavidWHodgins> It get's messages from translators asking for pushes to git, and responses when the push is done.
20:32:26 <marja> Luigi12_work: I use it to see whether MCC or installer help files (need to) get pushed to Calenco
20:32:31 <Luigi12_work> obviously it's not that useful if hardly anyone is subscribed
20:32:35 <Latte> DavidWHodgins: the messages from the translators are going to i18n-discuss
20:33:01 <Luigi12_work> anyway, my point is maybe there should be a list that only gets notifications that translations need to be updated, and nothing else
20:33:08 <DavidWHodgins> Ah. Sorry. Mixed up the two lists. I'm not subscribed to i18n-reports.
20:33:53 <marja> Luigi12_work: that would be nice
20:34:46 <Latte> the most of the messages in 18n-reports are those automatic push mails which are not very usefull (in my opinion)
20:35:48 <marja> Luigi12_work: but I'm not sure it is really needed..... it is maybe possible to filter the body of those  mails to find the pot file updates, and let them go to a separate mail folder? (I never tried that, though)
20:36:06 <Stormi> oops forgot the meeting, thankfully there's marja
20:36:09 <Luigi12_work> people shouldn't have to filter to make the list useful
20:36:28 <ennael> well maybe this meeting is not the right time to decide what to do
20:36:31 <marja> Stormi: I'll leave reporting about bug squad to you ;-)
20:36:36 <ennael> but at least there is something to solve here
20:36:40 <Luigi12_work> ok
20:38:05 <ennael> bug squad team then :)
20:38:09 <ennael> Stormi: your turn
20:39:37 <Stormi> well nothing much is happening in bug squad right now
20:40:08 <Stormi> I've got a backlog of bug mailing list notifications to look after, and triage those that haven't been already
20:40:23 <Stormi> since half of the triaging is done by packagers who watch the list
20:40:54 <marja> Stormi: what about your plans with Bugzilla (when you get the needed access)?
20:41:05 <Luigi12_work> yeah there's definitely been an increase in people watching the bugs list over the past year
20:41:18 <Stormi> that's a really good thing
20:41:48 <Stormi> my "plans", well, I'm still recovering from mga5 like most of you :)
20:42:04 <Luigi12_work> of course we were in freeze for a year so maybe people were bored and needed something to do :o)
20:42:06 <marja> Stormi: lol ..... take your time
20:42:31 <marja> Luigi12_work: :-)
20:42:34 <Stormi> short term plans is come back to day to day triage
20:42:56 <Stormi> then think about improving the process
20:43:06 <Luigi12_work> thanks for the work you've done the past several months, it's been awesome
20:43:07 <Stormi> and also tend to old or forgotten bug reports
20:43:50 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: Maybe bug 44 could finally be fixed :-)
20:44:01 <Stormi> I'd like to really make the Neglected Packages Task Force alive
20:44:17 <Stormi> but instead of doing it myself, I think it's really time for packager groups
20:44:21 <Stormi> well not only packagers
20:44:26 <Stormi> packagers + testers actually
20:44:42 <Stormi> that we can assign bugs to and add in CC
20:44:50 <Luigi12_work> + people to trawl bugzilla and discover some packages that are being neglected
20:45:04 <Stormi> indeed
20:45:09 <DavidWHodgins> I used to, but can't handle the volume anymore.
20:45:30 <Luigi12_work> but yeah that'd be a good thing for apprentice packagers that aren't sure what packages they want to work on
20:46:03 <Stormi> not much to add for tonight, maybe not the right time to raise packager groups, but as far as bugzilla is concerned we could really use them
20:46:18 <Stormi> that would just be aliases to dedicated mailing lists we can assign bug to
20:46:49 <Luigi12_work> or mail aliases
20:47:03 <Luigi12_work> not sure we need hundreds of lists, but yeah packager groups would be great
20:47:06 <Stormi> I thought of mailing lists so that anybody is free to join or leave
20:47:22 <marja> that would be nice
20:47:28 <Luigi12_work> you could do the same with an alias as long as we had an online thing for people to add themselves to or remove it
20:47:37 <Luigi12_work> like security@group.mageia.org is an alias that goes to Oden and I
20:47:42 <Stormi> true, if someone develops that :)
20:48:08 <Luigi12_work> yeah, shouldn't be too hard.  May be less overhead than creating hundreds of lists :o)
20:48:56 <Stormi> well, sometimes things not too hard take years, mailing lists are straightforward and groups can be created only when needed
20:49:27 <Luigi12_work> yeah speaking of which, our mailing lists still give those stupid no-archive headers, and that's been the case probably for a couple years at least
20:49:36 <Luigi12_work> shouldn't have been hard to fix but hasn't been done
20:49:45 <Stormi> that, and the DKIM issue
20:49:58 <Luigi12_work> well at least that's on pterjan's TODO list AFAIK
20:50:13 <Stormi> that's it for bugsquad
20:50:18 <Stormi> who's next?
20:50:26 <ennael> packagers ?
20:50:39 <ennael> oups that's me as akien is not around :)
20:50:41 <Stormi> :)
20:50:46 <Stormi> he's traveling
20:51:09 <ennael> so we are planning to start again in some days
20:51:40 <ennael> main focus will be : mentoring, how to organize regular meeting with people attending, organizing mga6 specs
20:51:55 <ennael> and wiki doc for marja :)
20:52:06 <marja> ennael: :-)
20:52:41 <ennael> also we have delivered isos to linux-users in gremany
20:52:44 <ennael> germany
20:52:48 <ennael> in fact 2 sets of isos
20:53:08 <ennael> to be included in Linux newspaper in Germany
20:53:30 <Latte> nice \o/
20:53:34 <DavidWHodgins> Did the problem booting the German iso images from usb stick get sorted out?
20:54:05 <ennael> don't know yet
20:54:15 <ennael> waiting for feedbacks  on new isos
20:54:29 <Luigi12_work> didn't someone say that didn't matter because burnt DVDs will be distributed, not the ISO itself?
20:54:47 <marja> yep
20:54:50 <tmb> yeah
20:55:02 <ennael> yep still iinterested in test result :)
20:55:28 <DavidWHodgins> Though people might want to copy the iso from the dvd to a stick for use in systems with no optical drives.
20:55:43 <Latte> is it known, when the newspaper will be published?
20:58:14 <ennael> don't know on my side
20:58:24 <ennael> maybe akien knows it but cannot see it in mails
20:58:53 <Latte> not so important - just curious
20:59:32 <marja> Latte: EasyLinux 03/2015 erscheint am 16.07.2015.
21:00:27 <Latte> marja: thanks
21:00:42 <ennael> so very soon
21:06:36 <Stormi> looks like everybody is asleep now :)
21:06:40 <ennael> :)
21:06:46 <DavidWHodgins> Still here.
21:06:58 <marja> maybe we should end meeting and sleep on our pillows instead of on our keyboards :-)
21:07:06 <wilcal> slow'n down. Gotta go get groceries :-))
21:07:08 <ennael> ok what would be great is to plan newt meeting in 2 weeks
21:07:15 <Stormi> just striking me right now, do we know who is going to hold our stand in RMLL / LSM?
21:07:27 <Stormi> it's next WE
21:07:28 <ennael> with each team battle plan :)
21:07:45 <ennael> Stormi: no idea; no information on it
21:08:02 <marja> ennael: skip post mortem?
21:08:02 <Luigi12_work> just a quick update from the security team, oden's been unavailable and I've been really busy at work, so need help from packagers
21:08:18 <ennael> marja: that's part of the plan :)
21:08:29 <Luigi12_work> good news is part of the busyness is finally getting ready to roll out Mageia on the student workstations at work :D
21:08:29 <marja> ennael: :-)
21:08:32 <ennael> Luigi12_work: did you mail on dev?
21:08:37 <Luigi12_work> not yet
21:10:07 <Stormi> maybe post-mortem can happen in packager meeting with all teams represented
21:10:40 <DavidWHodgins> I forget. When is the packager's meeting?
21:10:45 <Stormi> at least "production" teams
21:10:53 <Stormi> but most are
21:12:21 <ennael> grumbl oops in connection
21:13:19 <marja> ennael: should council discuss remmy's request too, or is that only for the board to discuss and decide?
21:13:58 <ennael> maybe after we have more ideas on mga6 specs
21:14:41 <marja> DavidWHodgins: it used to be on Tuesdays http://www.mageia.org/en/calendar/
21:14:42 <[mbot> [ Mageia calendar ]
21:15:03 <Stormi> ok so each team comes back in two weeks with their plans?
21:15:28 <Stormi> and does post-mortem happen in packagers meeting?
21:15:57 <ennael> yes it will...
21:16:03 <DavidWHodgins> Should be a joint team meeting.
21:16:04 <ennael> we said all teams
21:16:20 <Stormi> ok
21:16:24 <DavidWHodgins> Is that tomorrow, or when?
21:16:30 <ennael> DavidWHodgins: when
21:16:39 <DavidWHodgins> lol
21:16:47 <ennael> akien is not around this week and I will not start on my own
21:16:53 <Stormi> next week maybe
21:16:59 <ennael> yep
21:17:18 <Luigi12_work> two weeks from now I'll be on vacation for one week
21:17:43 <ennael> anyway people will be on vacation in july
21:17:47 <ennael> :)
21:17:52 <Stormi> Luigi12_work: vacation cancelled
21:17:55 <Stormi> too bad
21:18:04 <ennael> \o/
21:18:21 <Luigi12_work> I just need to install a SIM card, OS, and IRC client in my brain
21:18:27 <wilcal> Europe goes on Holiday in July
21:18:34 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
21:18:42 <ennael> ok can we stop meeting for tonight ,
21:18:43 <ennael> ?
21:18:45 <Stormi> yes
21:18:48 <marja> yep
21:18:50 <DavidWHodgins> Fine by me.
21:18:54 <wilcal> ok
21:19:01 <ennael> thanks a lot for attendin
21:19:01 <ennael> g
21:19:14 <ennael> #endmeeting