19:14:44 <ennael> #startmeeting
19:14:44 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Mon May 18 19:14:44 2015 UTC.  The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:14:44 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:15:10 <ennael> hi all and let start bugs review :)
19:15:18 <MrsB> o/
19:15:20 <ennael> #topic isos and bugs review
19:15:33 <ennael> MrsB: want to start about current isos?
19:15:54 <MrsB> there are still issues with gnome Oh No
19:16:23 <MrsB> The new iso which can be dd'd to usb seems to work well
19:16:32 <marja> nice :-)
19:16:53 <MrsB> i haven't seen the pad today, anything new there?
19:17:41 <MrsB> ben seems to be having some issues, perhaps l10n based?
19:18:21 <wilcal> I'm pretty happy with M5/KDE Live media & CI's. Did an install with 64bit efi boot.iso in Vbox and that went well
19:19:36 <MrsB> Lewis and Ben reporting nasty issues on the pad. I don't think they've created bug reports though
19:20:21 <MrsB> gnome  "alloc magic number is broken at ..."
19:20:51 <ennael> would be great to have bug report quickly if really needed
19:21:33 <MrsB> Vlad reported on pad and ML that removed unused hw seems to be removing needed nvidia stuff
19:21:48 <MrsB> yeah, not sure why nobody is creating reports :\
19:22:54 <MrsB> these are mostly gnome so may be side effects of the new big hammer
19:23:12 <ennael> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15951
19:23:14 <[mbot> [ Bug 15951 Mageia 5 after install with GNOME still all black ]
19:23:22 <tmb> the "invalid magic number" & co will go away with the new way of creating isos
19:23:23 <ennael> would be nice to get more information
19:24:12 <MrsB> that is probably RC ennael, not part of iso testers anyway
19:24:32 <ennael> but it's release blocker
19:24:44 <MrsB> looks to have set it himself
19:24:45 <tmb> it comes from the grub2 menu having --search-root triggered on UEFI / FAT32
19:25:26 * MrsB looks to bugsquad
19:26:08 <ennael> thanks
19:26:26 <wilcal> is 15951 only on efi systems?
19:26:56 <MrsB> no idea, it was created on saturday by somebody I don't know, with very few details
19:27:15 <tmb> I just commented on it requesting hw info
19:27:20 <ennael> ok so maybe we can decrease priority and ask for more details
19:27:22 <ennael> ok
19:27:22 <MrsB> Stormi marja could oyu follow that up please
19:28:17 <ennael> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15734
19:28:19 <[mbot> [ Bug 15734 Booting laptop+nVIDIA Optimus from Live DVD (KDE or GNOME) ends with blank screen (X server fails to start) ]
19:28:21 <ennael> what about that one
19:28:51 <marja> MrsB: tmb was faster
19:29:24 <tmb> no progress for me so far... I got hold of an optimus laptop today so maybe I can figure something out
19:30:06 <MrsB> Akien and Stormi have optimus too IINM so can maybe help with any tests
19:31:13 <tmb> yeah, I will ping qa ml when I have something to test
19:31:47 <ennael> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15168
19:31:49 <[mbot> [ Bug 15168 LXDE & MATE can take several minutes to shutdown/reboot or hang completely (ordering cycle on display-manager-failure.service/start) ]
19:32:33 <wilcal> FWIW I've seen this in KDE also
19:32:39 <MrsB> no progress, but can be fixed after release if necessary
19:32:50 <ennael> annoying one
19:32:52 <tmb> so that one is not a regression as it's in mga4 too
19:33:00 <wilcal> I just "pull the plug" on the system :-))
19:33:10 <Sebsebsebb> Was in another channel with this one left open hi
19:33:17 <MrsB> perhaps one colin could help with, seems systemd-ish
19:33:32 <MrsB> morning Sebsebsebb
19:33:41 <ennael> yap
19:33:44 <ennael> yep
19:34:00 * ennael invoking coling
19:34:11 <ennael> coling: can you have a look on https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15168 (adding this by mail also)
19:34:13 <[mbot> [ Bug 15168 LXDE & MATE can take several minutes to shutdown/reboot or hang completely (ordering cycle on display-manager-failure.service/start) ]
19:35:44 <MrsB> the other one is dracut which looks to have a fix now
19:35:54 <MrsB> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12305
19:35:56 <[mbot> [ Bug 12305 dracut fails the boot process when swap (resume) partition UUID not found; installer doesn't help prevent this ]
19:35:56 <Sebsebsebb> Evening mrsb
19:37:18 <ennael> yep
19:37:39 <ennael> so basically that's all for bug review
19:37:52 <MrsB> it's nearly there now
19:38:13 <MrsB> found some java nastiness over the weekend which is now fixed in cauldron and 4
19:38:48 <MrsB> I have a topic to add when we're through with this one
19:39:03 <ennael> ok
19:39:20 <Akien> Hi (just caught up with the backlog)
19:39:22 <ennael> so about coming isos, I'm testing last modification provided by tmb
19:39:29 <Akien> We didn't review this one I think: https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15689
19:39:32 <[mbot> [ Bug 15689 M5RC, life installer does not always present /boot/EFI as an option in UEFI mode when using "custom disk partitioning" ]
19:39:33 <ennael> when it's done I will upload it for tests
19:39:45 <MrsB> oh yes, we missed that one
19:39:49 <wilcal> By tomorrow ( Tues )?
19:39:55 <ennael> yep
19:40:05 <Akien> ennael: IIRC you pinged tv by mail for this bug?
19:40:21 <ennael> yep no answer for now
19:40:35 <MrsB> try martin too
19:40:38 <ennael> as said by tmb this could go to errata.
19:40:52 <ennael> I guess the one about oh no is more expected to be fixed
19:41:24 <Akien> Yeah, looking at the list the Oh no one is the only one in red
19:41:34 <MrsB> it's an annoying on to put in errata as it seems like it should be easy to fix, but Oh No is more important
19:42:06 <Akien> I'll have a look at the installer code to see if I can locate the part that needs fixed
19:42:22 <Akien> Then I can point tmb, tv and martin to it to do the actual perl job :)
19:42:35 <ennael> try martin then
19:42:40 <Akien> yep
19:43:22 <tmb> Akien, well I know what part of perl has the list, I just havent had time yet to figure out why it sometimes gets filtered out  :)
19:43:35 <wilcal> Who, or what, creates the boot.iso's?
19:43:44 <ennael> could be a good opportunity to get martin more implied in drakx
19:44:07 <MrsB> they get rebuilt when certain packages change wilcal
19:44:17 <wilcal> automagically
19:44:22 <Akien> tmb: If you can tell me which lines are involved, I'll try to get martin on it then :)
19:44:33 <ennael> wilcal: drakx-installer-images
19:44:44 <ennael> rebuilt and then deployed in repository
19:45:10 <wilcal> thks
19:47:05 <ennael> ok then anything about bugs and isos ?
19:47:33 <MrsB> poised for new fixes :)
19:47:40 <ennael> :)
19:47:52 <ennael> #topic atelier todo list for coming release
19:48:03 <ennael> somebody about this ?
19:48:14 <ennael> ahaha well done sebsebseb :)
19:48:15 * Akien points at Stormi
19:48:18 <Akien> lol
19:48:26 <MrsB> lol @ sebsebseb timing
19:48:33 <ennael> Stormi: your turn then :)
19:48:48 <MrsB> Schultz is here now too
19:48:53 <ennael> great
19:49:53 <Schultz> Schultz is running for a bus, will report shortly, apologies for this
19:49:54 <Akien> AFAIK the "5 blog posts about Mageia 5" idea is getting developed nicely, not sure if we'll publish something before we release mga5, but at least we'll be ready for afterwards
19:50:32 <Akien> I still have to write mine on games, that's a matter of sitting one hour without working on other stuff, I'll try to get to it tomorrow, together with my other pending tasks for Atelier
19:51:16 <Akien> The work done on the blog posts will provide a nice basis for the official release announcement IMO
19:51:41 <Akien> And also for the website content that filip_ and leuhmanu need to make us a pretty Mageia 5 homepage :)
19:51:58 <ennael> nice !
19:52:09 <Akien> So basically... work is being done, but still not as fast as we should. But you know Atelier ;-)
19:52:23 <Akien> Everything will be ready in time though, just maybe not ahead of time :)
19:53:07 <MrsB> is Nenad still interested or did he drift away?
19:53:56 <Akien> We haven't heard from him recently, but I'll try nudging him gently
19:54:36 <ennael> that would be great to have his support also
19:55:01 <Akien> Otherwise Stormi has presented his flyer and communication campaign idea (or was it on the council ML?)
19:55:17 <MrsB> ahh yes, i meant to reply to that
19:55:19 <Akien> This might also do a nice post-mga5 blog post
19:55:45 <Akien> I personally think it's an excellent idea, and not just because we have a familial agreement to support each other
19:55:50 <Akien> (you've seen he bullied me on dev@ :p)
19:56:09 <MrsB> we need to be careful with the wording on the flyer to not sounds anti-businesses gettign involved
19:56:45 <Akien> MrsB: Good point
19:57:14 <MrsB> not to discourage any business user wishing to contribute
19:57:49 <wilcal> flier to be released before or after M5 is released
19:58:20 <MrsB> whenever is my guess wilcal
19:58:33 <Akien> Yeah I think it's version-agnostic
19:58:51 <wilcal> In one short sentence what is the intent of the "flier"
19:59:23 <MrsB> http://stormi.lautre.net/fichiers/jdll/2015/mageia-jdll-flyer.EN.pdf
19:59:29 <MrsB> picture says 1000 words
19:59:30 <Schultz> I think akien covered everything i had, thanks for that. I should be available to proof and do some writing this week
19:59:54 <Akien> wilcal: Basically the idea is to present free software / Linux / Mageia to the ignorant masses
20:00:12 <MrsB> lol probably should be careful how we word that too :D
20:00:12 <wilcal> lol very good Akien
20:00:23 <Akien> Stormi has already tried handing out the French version in the subway, to spread the love :)
20:00:31 <wilcal> After M5 gets turned loose I'll lend a hand there
20:01:05 <Akien> I might try doing the same, if I can get Danes looking away from the iJail :)
20:01:40 <MrsB> uefi support is a good start for that
20:01:55 <wilcal> Do we have some graphic artists on board?
20:02:05 <wilcal> I ain't on
20:02:06 <wilcal> one
20:02:19 <MrsB> you're not a Dane
20:02:35 <Akien> lol
20:02:44 <Akien> We don't have many artists involved on a regular basis sadly
20:03:22 <wilcal> Also, sorry, when Mageia first launched we had a catchy phrase "A new Linux". Is there a newer catchy phrase for Mageia
20:03:38 <Schultz> Yep, something that would be great to have as my skills are only on paper and not that great tbh
20:04:22 <MrsB> have to do some recruiting post-release Schultz
20:04:37 <MrsB> maybe a blog post on atelier
20:04:38 <Akien> wilcal: For the stickers for FOSDEM I came up with "We all make Mageia"
20:05:05 <wilcal> so the Flier would be targeted at Fosdem
20:05:08 <Akien> We might try to make the buzz with it around the Mageia 5 release
20:05:12 <ennael> the 2 things I hear frequently about mageia is about community
20:05:19 <wilcal> Anyway things to think about
20:05:23 <Schultz> Yep, not to close to any arty friends from school but i can put word out there too
20:05:28 <ennael> and the easy way to start contribution
20:05:28 <Akien> wilcal: Nope, not related to FOSDEM
20:05:35 <Akien> The stickers were just done at this occasion
20:05:41 <wilcal> Lemme as a tough question. Ready
20:06:22 <Akien> What do you think about this "We all make Mageia"? The idea was to point out that we are all community members, and therefore all "makers" of Mageia as well as users
20:06:38 <wilcal> Is there any objections to kinda suggesting it's a little French?
20:06:46 * ennael likes this idea
20:06:56 <MrsB> yeah, nice Akien
20:07:09 <MrsB> frenglish wilcal?
20:07:36 <Schultz> Yep im with that idea, also we should publish the they make mageia blogs more frequently
20:07:38 <Akien> Here is the sticker: http://pasteboard.co/yQS5i3T.png
20:07:43 <wilcal> It's something that Mandrake/Mandriva kinda hung their hat on
20:07:55 <ennael> ?
20:08:06 <Akien> wilcal: Are you refering to the fact that Mageia would be partly French?
20:08:17 * ennael is lost
20:08:19 <wilcal> That should be the only thing on the front cover of the flier ( tri-fold )
20:08:29 <Akien> IMO we should try to go away from this preconception
20:08:33 <Akien> Mageia is international.
20:08:39 <wilcal> Kinda leans French. It's a hook no one else has
20:08:51 <wilcal> looking for differentiators
20:08:52 <MrsB> just needs a once over by a natural english speaker wilcal
20:09:06 <Akien> Only to French people should we say that Mageia has French roots, because many seem to look forward to that.
20:09:33 <ennael> does "we all make mageia" sound french?
20:09:47 <wilcal> anyway things to think about
20:09:47 <MrsB> not really
20:09:51 <Akien> Nope, wilcal was just bringing up a different topic about how to present Mageia to people
20:09:59 <Akien> e.g. whether he should say that Mageia is somewhat French
20:10:03 <wilcal> yup
20:10:09 <ennael> not at all I think
20:10:13 <Akien> ennael: +1
20:10:16 <wilcal> too quick to put it in this flier
20:10:22 <ennael> mdv story is done
20:10:31 <ennael> mageia has now its own life
20:10:42 <Akien> wilcal: Unless you really feel that it would appeal to the people you're talking to, e.g. Americans with French origins ;)
20:10:45 <ennael> and it's made by people all over the world
20:10:49 <MrsB> mageia.org is french, mageia the distribution is worldwide, from everywhere
20:10:54 <wilcal> Americans are crazy
20:10:55 <ennael> yep
20:10:57 <ennael> :)
20:11:23 <Akien> But on the French forums I'm really trying hard to make it clear that Mageia is international, and that therefore people should not expect to be allowed to make bug reports in French
20:11:40 <ennael> that's another pb :)
20:11:52 <Akien> Yeah but that's linked to this idea that "Mageia is French"
20:11:53 <ennael> french people want french everywhere
20:11:56 <Akien> We should unmake this idea
20:12:08 <wilcal> "Mageia, the worldwide linux distribution"
20:12:08 <MrsB> english people are the same :)
20:12:21 <wilcal> something
20:12:29 <Latte> well, we have also German forum users complaining that the devs are not reading the german forum ;)
20:12:34 <Akien> But yeah, let's go with "We all make Mageia" then if you agree
20:12:36 <ennael> wilcal: too sententious imho :)
20:12:57 <MrsB> exactly Latte, it's not a 'french' thing it's a nationalist thing
20:13:03 <ennael> my last german words were 15 years ago..
20:13:14 <tmb> "Santa uses Mageia"...
20:13:19 <ennael> :)
20:13:26 <wilcal> That's a good one :-))
20:13:29 <MrsB> Oooh I hope that's true
20:13:30 <Akien> I'll try to think about how to make it a true catch phrase for the Mageia release (I still remember Ubuntu's "Linux for human beings" from 10 years ago, we need something like that)
20:13:47 <ennael> tmb: you should use swedish answering on kernel bugs
20:14:00 <ennael> Akien: not like this
20:14:01 <wilcal> Anyway a simple graphic and something short on the front page. Compels people to pick it up
20:14:06 <ennael> do not copy please:)
20:14:23 <Akien> ennael: "Like that", as in "that people will remember and identify to"
20:14:27 <MrsB> tri-fold you think wilcal
20:14:30 <ennael> ah ok :)
20:14:34 <wilcal> Yes, definitely
20:14:43 <MrsB> Stormi:  ^^
20:14:54 <Akien> wilcal: That's a good idea indeed.
20:15:02 <wilcal> I've done a LOT of fliers aimed at the Europen market
20:15:18 <MrsB> needs a hook to catch a fish
20:15:24 <ennael> :)
20:15:24 <wilcal> You got it MrsB
20:15:42 <ennael> Mageia the first distro for fishes
20:15:44 <ennael> nice one
20:15:54 <wilcal> anyway after M5 release I'll join the discussion. I really do like the French angle
20:16:07 * MrsB on a fasting day today and now want to eat fish
20:16:15 <ennael> :)
20:16:31 <ennael> on antyhing else to be added on that fish^w^wtopic?
20:16:52 <MrsB> does santa really use mageia?
20:17:01 <ennael> ask tmb
20:17:08 <ennael> he knows this guy well
20:17:15 <MrsB> he's certainly closest
20:17:47 <ennael> ok MrsB you wanted to add a topic ?
20:18:08 <MrsB> yes pls, about possibly adding backports in updates
20:18:19 <ennael> #topic backports management
20:18:25 <MrsB> thanks
20:18:33 <ennael> your turn
20:18:43 <MrsB> Some may have already seen the discussion whic arose recently
20:18:47 <tmb> MrsB, I will ask next time I driver up north
20:18:47 <MrsB> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14719
20:18:50 <[mbot> [ Bug 14719 Request for updated Bleachbit package ]
20:18:54 <MrsB> thanks tmb
20:19:26 <MrsB> We're nto currently in a position to push backports, needing some sysadmin work doing
20:19:29 <MrsB> not
20:19:43 <MrsB> but we're not in a position to put any more on sysadmins either
20:19:54 <tmb> s/sysadmin/perl wiz/
20:20:19 <MrsB> would it be wise to allow backports through the regular updates channel "for now" ?
20:20:31 <Akien> Yeah I've started some basic work to add backports features to mgarepo, but I only did a feature to checkout a backport branch so far, the rest is way over my level
20:20:45 <ennael> can I do a last try with pterjan?
20:21:08 <MrsB> to give some context, we have 3 currently stalled backports which have been sat for 6 months
20:21:16 <MrsB> now 4 with bleachbit
20:21:48 <MrsB> I'm just cavassing for opinions really rather than pushing to get them opened
20:22:11 <MrsB> after release we'll have more work than we know what to do with anyway
20:22:42 <MrsB> backport = leaf package that shouldn't affect any others
20:23:01 <Akien> IMO we don't really need to open backports so late for Mageia 4. Its EOL is not so far away already.
20:23:23 <MrsB> well that's another topic we should discuss before release
20:23:26 <Akien> But we do need to get the infra ready to have backports for Mageia 5 shortly after the release.
20:24:10 <MrsB> we have 3 options really
20:24:17 <tmb> for the record: theese need finishing up: http://gitweb.mageia.org/software/infrastructure/mgatools/ and http://gitweb.mageia.org/software/infrastructure/mgaadvisories/
20:24:18 <[mbot> [ mgatools - Various Distribution Management Tools ]
20:24:27 <Luigi12_work> I think part of the hold up is the idea that we have to have full advisories for backports like we do for updates.  That's totally unnecessary.
20:24:43 <Luigi12_work> just test them, validate them, and push them.
20:25:08 <MrsB> something has to do the pushing and we need some way to validate them
20:25:20 <Akien> Luigi12_work: I agree, but there's more than that I guess, i.e. the scripts to push backports from _testing to _release probably need to be adapted
20:25:21 <Luigi12_work> won't they still be handled in Bugzilla?
20:25:35 <MrsB> yeah, but not with validated_update keyword
20:25:48 <Akien> Well it should be fairly easy to add a validated_backport keyword
20:26:08 <Luigi12_work> I'm not sure why it matters which keyword is used, but OK
20:26:21 <Luigi12_work> anyway that's a trivial detail
20:26:34 <Akien> Then yeah, sysadmins need a script to move all validated_backports packages from _testing to _release
20:26:37 <Luigi12_work> compared to setting up the infrastructure for advisories and a mailing list which is just overkill
20:26:43 <tmb> Luigi12_work, the move tool need reference SRPM list ... looking on mgatools most bits seem to be there
20:26:47 <Akien> s/_release/_backports/
20:26:53 <MrsB> it's all fairly easy for those who know how, just needs doing still. The point was to ask whether it would be a good diea to negate that work and allow them to enter via updates !for now" or hold off until the work can be completed
20:27:09 <Luigi12_work> SRPM list could even be stored in the appropriate field in the bug in Bugzilla
20:27:12 <MrsB> idea*
20:27:34 <Luigi12_work> I think it depends
20:27:58 <Luigi12_work> sometimes updating a package to a newer version is fine for an update, it just depends on the reasons and the changes
20:28:04 <Akien> MrsB: I'd say let's not allow them in Updates, and try again to get the backports infra prepared for real
20:28:21 <tmb> mailing list is done since long ago, but mgaadv still needs a "backports" target to generate proper package list for moving to backports
20:28:27 <MrsB> well two of them are yours anyway Akien :)
20:28:46 <Luigi12_work> I don't think it's good further burdening QA with having to upload advisories for backports also
20:28:55 <Akien> MrsB: Only one ;)
20:29:05 <Akien> + bumblebee sitting in backports_testing but not assigned to QA
20:29:14 <Luigi12_work> I really think the advisories is overkill and too much manual red tape for backports
20:29:26 <MrsB> The advisory would only be a list of srpms and bug number presumably.
20:29:33 <Luigi12_work> even if you'll still have a ML, you can have the mails automatically generated with just the rpm -qi info and the new changelog entry
20:29:54 <Luigi12_work> MrsB: sure, then hopefully we can do that without adding more manual work for anyone
20:30:06 <MrsB> so anyway, this is going way beyond the original question
20:30:09 <Luigi12_work> the list of SRPMS can be taken from the bug, so you don't need any  mgaadv stuff
20:30:33 <Luigi12_work> if the original question was whether to allow backports in updates, I'd say it depends on a case-by-case basis as to whether that's appropriate
20:30:45 <Luigi12_work> as a general rule, it doesn't make sense
20:31:29 <MrsB> as a policy though "case by case" causes disagreements, so better to say no
20:32:29 <MrsB> I think the decision is not to allow them through updates then. Does anybody disagree?
20:33:14 <Akien> I'm fine with the decision.
20:33:19 <Akien> It's simpler.
20:33:52 <Akien> And we don't really have packagers desperately pushing for backports anyway, they are content with being told "sorry, still not possible"
20:34:02 <MrsB> ok cool. That's what I would prefer too.
20:34:37 <ennael> not for this but its my opinion
20:34:38 <MrsB> we can leave them parked for now
20:35:11 <Luigi12_work> yeah it's fine
20:35:29 <MrsB> Thanks guys
20:36:35 <MrsB> Should we discuss 4 EOL?
20:36:55 <Luigi12_work> my poor baby :o(
20:37:08 <ennael> this should be discussed when we have a date for final release of mga5
20:37:19 <ennael> then we can kill Luigi12_work baby :)
20:37:20 <ennael> oups
20:37:27 <MrsB> yeah, blam!
20:37:34 <Luigi12_work> old yeller
20:38:06 <MrsB> I'm done then, thanks :)
20:38:13 <ennael> famous last words then :)
20:38:39 <ennael> any other topic ?
20:38:44 <wilcal> not from me
20:39:20 <tmb> not from me
20:39:54 <ennael> and others are dead :)
20:40:01 <ennael> thanks for attending tonnight
20:40:07 <Latte> not, yet
20:40:28 <MrsB> not dead yet or don't end yet?
20:40:29 <ennael> and let's kill this cauldron :)
20:40:35 <ennael> #endmeeting