20:06:30 <ennael> #startmeeting
20:06:30 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Mon Jan 12 20:06:30 2015 UTC.  The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:06:30 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
20:06:31 <DavidWHodgins> Having a beer here. :-)
20:06:46 <ennael> let's try not to  spend half of the night here :)
20:07:10 <MrsB> fixed the cake bug
20:07:21 <ennael> #topic mageia 5 beta 2 hell
20:07:27 <ennael> ok
20:07:32 <grenoya> hi! sorry to be late
20:07:48 <MrsB> hi grenoya
20:07:54 <ennael> first on my size I apologize for the mess and lack of reaction these last days
20:08:10 <wilcal> No problem
20:08:24 <ennael> taking this meeting to review where we are and how we can release
20:09:24 <MrsB> I created some tracker bugs this morning
20:09:36 <MrsB> might need one for installer issues too
20:10:00 <MrsB> there are quite a number of small issues and a handful of large issues
20:10:40 <MrsB> if we release in the current state then we will seriously need to consider beta3, or RC will just be another beta
20:11:18 <DavidWHodgins> I think we should plan on having a beta 3, and release beta 2 as is.
20:11:39 <MrsB> AFAICT everything commented on has a bug report now
20:11:48 <wilcal> IMO there are some issues that need to see a wider array of platforms to test on and release of M5B2 will help that
20:12:17 <MrsB> Latest classic isos haven't had much testing yet so would benefit from that
20:13:12 <wilcal> What is it MrsB the "EFI" boot issue that significatnt
20:13:14 <MrsB> they've all been tested previously though and it's mainly EFI stuff which has changed
20:13:54 <wilcal> Are we dedicated to releasing M5 with full EFI support?
20:14:06 <MrsB> I think we have to be
20:14:18 <wilcal> It cannot be patched after release
20:14:21 <ennael> tmb: anyt thoughts on isos ?
20:14:31 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: Hopefully, though not guaranteed.
20:14:42 <wilcal> So EFI becomes the gating issue
20:14:59 <wilcal> If it does not do EFI it don't get released
20:15:02 <MrsB> not in particular wilcal
20:15:14 <MrsB> there are a number of issues
20:15:35 <MrsB> gnome has issues, the most major being that it ignores l10n settings
20:15:57 <MrsB> shorewall isn't being started
20:15:58 <ennael> I saw a bug report from GNOME upstream
20:16:29 <MrsB> it's pointless me listing them all here really, they're all on the tracker
20:16:52 <tmb> well, efi will be there... base drakx code now allows efi management, will still need some cleanups, I'm currently reworking the efi boot stub so it should boot on most stuff
20:17:41 <MrsB> grub2 now installs ok (non-efi)
20:18:36 <tmb> as for isos.. if we go for beta3 I think we can release beta2 now, otherwise we need more polishing time...
20:18:47 <MrsB> yes, my thoughts exactly
20:19:26 <MrsB> we'll need a focus on bug fixing after release though either way
20:19:31 <wilcal> I agree
20:19:33 <tmb> of course the longer we delay, the older the stuff gets...
20:19:48 <tmb> so it's always a balance...
20:20:10 <MrsB> we could perhaps delay release freeze until beta 3
20:20:20 <ennael> of course
20:20:32 <ennael> we cannot manage release freeze for several weeks
20:20:33 <DavidWHodgins> Agreed
20:20:37 <ennael> this will be hard
20:20:56 <MrsB> I'm concious too of the pressure all this puts on your tmb
20:21:00 <MrsB> you*
20:21:14 <DavidWHodgins> We are better off delaying release, then releasing a bad product.
20:21:52 <ennael> what about having 3 weeks before beta3
20:22:34 <MrsB> however long it is we'll need to focus attention on bug fixing away from updating things so much
20:22:59 <ennael> we cannot manage it for ages
20:23:03 <MrsB> i think the timing will depend on how quickly we feel bugs can be attended
20:23:17 <ennael> let focus on release critical bugs for 3 weeks
20:23:23 <MrsB> yeah
20:23:30 <ennael> flooding dev with it
20:23:36 <MrsB> \o/
20:23:59 <MrsB> i can make sure the message goes to QA to respond quickly to any dev queries
20:24:07 <ennael> ok
20:24:23 <ennael> we can plan a review during fosdem with people around
20:24:44 <ennael> at least colin will be there he will have no choice :)
20:24:51 <MrsB> lol poor col
20:25:01 <ennael> with beer of course
20:25:14 <MrsB> stick and carrot, of ocurse
20:25:14 <ennael> coling: if you are around, don't run
20:25:21 <ennael> of course
20:25:44 <MrsB> Olav will be there too and gnome devs
20:25:51 <ennael> great
20:25:59 <ennael> poor guys :)
20:26:12 <MrsB> i know teehee :D
20:26:17 <ennael> ok so we validate current isos
20:26:44 <ennael> then we start workig for beta3
20:26:55 <wilcal> sounds like a plan
20:26:56 <MrsB> I'd prefer to do quick installs from classic isos but its your call. I tend to be too cautious
20:27:26 <tmb> Well we could release them tomorrow night or so...
20:27:42 <ennael> I'm not saying we push it tonight :)
20:27:53 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: Sounds good to me.
20:27:54 <MrsB> yeah, i can do quick vbox installs tmrw,. Just like to ensure no regressions
20:27:59 <ennael> just of the current one do install then we release
20:28:02 <wilcal> this release will be what we have now right
20:28:09 <ennael> what about live isos ?
20:28:21 <MrsB> all tested
20:28:39 <DavidWHodgins> ennael: Same. Release beta 2, and have a beta 3.
20:28:40 <MrsB> vbox some of them
20:29:05 <MrsB> wilcal you need to break out your testing rig
20:29:17 <wilcal> All ready to go
20:29:20 <ennael> DavidWHodgins: I was rather speaking about live isos status :)
20:30:21 <DavidWHodgins> I don't have efi, so can't test that aspect. As far as I know the beta 2 live iso images are ok for wider testing.
20:30:23 <MrsB> we'll need to make it clear gnome l10n is buggy when we release to prevent forums team having a breakdown
20:30:35 <DavidWHodgins> lol
20:31:04 <MrsB> no efi here either
20:31:13 <ennael> :)
20:31:19 <wilcal> Live stuff is ok. Wrinkle on Gnome Live in Vbox
20:31:20 <tmb> DavidWHodgins, virtualbox in mga4 / cauldron have working efi support (not perfect, but it works)
20:32:14 <tmb> and iirc qemu knows it too
20:32:56 <MrsB> lewis has been leading the efi testing so far
20:33:06 <MrsB> there are a few in the team
20:33:13 <DavidWHodgins> I hate qemu. While it works, it takes forever to boot on my system.
20:33:49 <MrsB> did I see that marja had updated the EFI page on the wiki?
20:34:31 <ennael> ok so please MrsB or DavidWHodgins can you post a grlobal status tomorrow?
20:34:50 <ennael> then we release beta 2 and start work for beta3
20:35:10 <DavidWHodgins> Where should it be posted?
20:35:33 <MrsB> yes. I'd just like some quick checks of classic installs. Other than that I feel we're ok for beta 2.
20:35:40 <ennael> on qa-discuss
20:35:43 <ennael> that's ok
20:35:56 <sebsebseb> hi
20:36:04 <MrsB> sebsebseb
20:36:07 <sebsebseb> MrsB:
20:38:46 <MrsB> anything we've missed?
20:38:53 <ennael> don't think so
20:39:29 <ennael> let's work then :)
20:39:40 <ennael> we have also a topic about i18n and doc teams merge
20:40:57 <MrsB> that's interesting. What's your thoughts on atelier with the teams merged grenoya?
20:41:23 <ennael> #topic docteam and i18n merge
20:41:28 <DavidWHodgins> Marga stated that even if the teams merge, she would like the mailing lists to stay as is.
20:41:50 <grenoya> MrsB: I'm not sure Atelier's merge was the same as i18n/doc's one: they are really working together already
20:42:38 <MrsB> yes that's true
20:43:04 <MrsB> they dont' appear to be here though ;\
20:43:26 <lebarhon> am I the only one ?
20:43:32 <MrsB> ahh hi :)
20:43:41 <DavidWHodgins> lebarhon: Looks like it. :-)
20:43:50 <lebarhon> another reason to merge :)
20:43:57 <MrsB> lol yeah
20:44:24 <ennael> so ?
20:44:36 <ennael> do we have people from these teams around?
20:44:41 <DavidWHodgins> I think the teams should merge, but keep the mailing lists as is, and add a new one for the merged team.
20:44:57 <ennael> more ML...
20:45:06 <MrsB> hmm
20:45:17 <lebarhon> I think everyone agree for merging, let's do it
20:45:26 <grenoya> as a former docteam member, I would say merging ML is extremly important!!
20:45:34 <DavidWHodgins> Yep. Though we need the members to pick a new name for the merged team.
20:45:56 <MrsB> i think this is more a dicussion for the team members
20:46:02 <ennael> grenoya: do you think having one ML would be a trouble for people?
20:46:06 <ennael> just ti have an idea
20:46:15 <grenoya> one problem was that more than 80% of doc emails were also for i18n. creating a new ML will just keep copying emails
20:46:23 <ennael> indeed
20:46:29 <ennael> merge is also sharing resources
20:46:35 <grenoya> yes :)
20:46:40 <ennael> so keeping separate ML will not help people to communicate
20:46:46 <grenoya> indeed!
20:46:47 * MrsB agrees
20:47:05 <MrsB> what was marja's reasoning Dave?
20:47:08 <grenoya> and communication is a very important part of team work :)
20:49:31 <DavidWHodgins> The docteam members likely won't wan't to see all of the messages about translations being uploaded and then committed.
20:50:00 <ennael> ?
20:50:54 <MrsB> it would likely benefit from keeping two team leaders, at least one from each discipline
20:51:34 <grenoya> DavidWHodgins: are commit messages on the standart ML?
20:51:48 <ennael> this should not be done
20:52:01 <grenoya> it's not the case for Atelier nor fot doc IIRC
20:52:50 <DavidWHodgins> If you look at the i18n-discuss mailing list, the bulk of the messages are from translators, folllowed by commit messages, and often followed by thanks messages. While the volume is not high, it's much more than what the doc-discuss list gets.
20:53:26 <MrsB> an active ML encourages contrbution though
20:54:02 <DavidWHodgins> Depends on how many other mailing lists have been subscribed to.
20:54:29 <lebarhon> FWIW, I found the last docteam discussion, a message by filip 2014/10/22
20:55:49 <MrsB> it's really up to the teams themselves how they integrate, but we can advise
20:55:56 <DavidWHodgins> I currently have 34 lists subscribed, though only about 12 of those are Mageia related.
20:56:10 <ennael> ok
20:56:16 <DavidWHodgins> MrsB: Agreed.
20:56:20 <ennael> let's avoid to spend more time on it
20:56:34 <ennael> we can write a mail and ask for a decision from this team
20:56:38 <ennael> is that ok?
20:57:16 <MrsB> guys?
20:57:52 <wilcal> ok by me
20:58:08 <MrsB> lebarhon?
20:58:21 <DavidWHodgins> ennael: Ok here.
20:58:23 <lebarhon> OK
20:58:25 <ennael> grenoya: ?
20:58:29 <ennael> tmb: ?
20:58:44 <ennael> but indeed we need to move on this
20:58:51 <grenoya> ok for me
20:59:55 <MrsB> this will move things forward then
21:00:06 <ennael> ok thanks
21:00:16 <ennael> do we have any other topic ?
21:00:52 <DavidWHodgins> Dates on https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia_5_Development
21:01:22 <wilcal> Hugs from everyone to ennael
21:01:44 <DavidWHodgins> Yep. ☺
21:01:53 <ennael> :)
21:02:00 <ennael> ok we should also work on a blog post
21:02:08 <ennael> grenoya: can you see that point ?
21:02:19 <ennael> short but explaining the delay and the decisions
21:02:26 <grenoya> yeah
21:02:42 <DavidWHodgins> And announce there will be a beta 3.
21:02:45 <grenoya> I'll sent an email to the team just after the meeting
21:02:50 <ennael> ok thanks
21:03:36 <wilcal> Final release of M5 post FOSDEM?
21:03:53 <MrsB> very, yes
21:03:58 <filip_> hi there
21:04:04 <MrsB> hi filip_
21:04:09 <wilcal> Then everyone can relax
21:04:24 <wilcal> hi hi filip_
21:04:38 <ennael> ok anything else ?
21:04:38 <tmb> nah, there is always Fosdem 2016...
21:04:44 <ennael> :))
21:04:53 <ennael> well concluded tmb :)
21:07:04 <MrsB> Do we want to agree dates now or after release?
21:07:28 <DavidWHodgins> So the dates. Beta 2 Jan 13th, Beta 3, Feb. 3rd, RC Feb. 24th, and release on March 17th?
21:07:43 <wilcal> Excellant
21:07:49 <ennael> long :)
21:08:06 <DavidWHodgins> That's 3 weeks between each release.
21:08:23 <MrsB> RC => Final should be short maybe
21:08:29 <ennael> I would say 10
21:08:44 <wilcal> M5B3 should be pretty good
21:09:14 <MrsB> have to fit release freeze in there too
21:09:18 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: Hopefully. (Knock on wood). :-)
21:09:59 <DavidWHodgins> Release freeze should be just before the beta 3 iso images start getting built, I think.
21:10:16 <wilcal> Yep, and freeze means freeze
21:10:39 <ennael> so
21:10:55 <ennael> Beta 2 Jan 13th, Beta 3, Feb. 3rd, RC Feb. 24th, and release on March 10th
21:11:03 <ennael> looks ok?
21:11:22 <wilcal> ok by me
21:11:48 <MrsB> when for freeze then, Jan 27th?
21:12:02 <DavidWHodgins> Provided it's clear those can be delayed if they don't pass qa testing.
21:12:20 <ennael> I would say after beta3
21:12:26 <ennael> for release freeze
21:12:32 <ennael> this is usually what we do
21:12:37 <MrsB> ok feb 4th-ish
21:12:52 <ennael> yep
21:12:55 <MrsB> as long as it doesn't detract from bug fixing
21:13:11 <ennael> well release freeze is about bug fixing
21:13:14 <ennael> it should be
21:13:42 <MrsB> yeah but we need them fixed before beta3 or there is no point in having a beta 3
21:13:52 <DavidWHodgins> As I understand it, bug fixes are the only updates allowed during release freeze.
21:13:54 <ennael> does not change :)
21:14:00 <ennael> DavidWHodgins: indeed
21:14:15 <ennael> even critical bugs
21:14:37 <MrsB> we'll need to ramp up the bug fixing message
21:14:48 <MrsB> dates are fine
21:16:05 <MrsB> 'll update those after the meeting if you like
21:16:11 <ennael> ok
21:16:22 <ennael> so... ready for 2 hellish months :)
21:16:26 <DavidWHodgins> 2 weeks from RC to release might be a little tight.
21:16:41 <ennael> DavidWHodgins: RC is a pre final release
21:16:51 <MrsB> well RC *should* be a proper RC this time
21:17:08 <DavidWHodgins> MrsB: Hopefully. :-)
21:17:13 <MrsB> needs to be
21:17:23 <ennael> anything else ?
21:17:32 <MrsB> all done ty
21:17:40 <DavidWHodgins> I think that's it.
21:17:44 <tmb> DavidWHodgins, not if RC is a real RC, meaning almost nothing but mageia-release rpm gets bumped to stable, drakx.* rebuilt and out it go
21:17:54 <ennael> yep
21:18:09 <wilcal> not from me
21:18:14 * tmb can always dream....
21:18:19 <ennael> :)
21:18:21 <DavidWHodgins> lol
21:18:27 <ennael> I had a dream :p
21:18:30 <MrsB> that and the thing that adds stable mirrors instead of cauldron
21:18:42 <ennael> ok then
21:18:46 <ennael> let start now :)
21:18:51 <ennael> thanks for attending
21:18:58 <wilcal> 2-wks next
21:19:07 <MrsB> thanks ennael, everybody
21:19:10 <ennael> see you next week ?
21:19:14 <wilcal> ok
21:19:42 <tmb> yep
21:19:44 <ennael> have a nice week
21:19:48 <ennael> #endmeeting