19:35:52 <ennael> #startmeeting
19:35:52 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Mon Apr 28 19:35:52 2014 UTC.  The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:35:52 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:35:58 <leuhmanu> ok
19:36:04 <ennael> hi all thanks for being there tonight
19:36:29 <MrsB> nice to see so many here
19:36:31 <tmb> hi
19:36:44 <DavidWHodgins> HiYa
19:36:59 <ennael> ok first topic then :)
19:37:08 <ennael> #topic review of financial needs for coming year
19:37:55 <DavidWHodgins> Why hasn't valstar been replaced? I thought that was already aproved.
19:37:59 <ennael> so the question was started last meeting to try to estimate what would be the specific needs to be planned this year
19:38:16 <ennael> can we do it team by team?
19:38:23 <Akien> Fine by me
19:38:32 <ennael> who wants to start :)
19:38:49 <MrsB> I can if you like
19:38:52 <DavidWHodgins> Qa team just needs people, not money.
19:39:22 <doktor5000_> forums team too - but not that much
19:39:26 <ennael> ok MrsB
19:39:27 <DavidWHodgins> Sorry MrsB
19:39:54 <doktor5000_> sorry MrsB
19:40:02 <Schultz> hey everyone
19:40:06 <MrsB> We discussed it in our last meeting and the only thing really would be automating some of the testing. There are various ways to do this though and certainly at the moment ..
19:41:17 <MrsB> there is not enough manpower to impliment a server based solution. Any automation would therefore most likely be VM based on our own machines. That too requires manpower to impliment though so at the moment it's all a bit of a pipedream.
19:42:03 <ennael> so to sum up a server dedicated to automatic tests for virtual environements
19:42:09 <MrsB> We're quickly reaching a position of needing to increase contributors, or increse automation in order to keep pace with growth
19:42:27 <wilcal> Better late then never
19:42:56 <tmb> the trouble with "server dedicated" is that we are running out of rack space at the DC too :/
19:43:01 <MrsB> We're not sure actually Anne. We'd *like* to get some automation in place but there are various methods to doing so and not enough manpower to implement any of it at the moment anyway
19:43:25 <ennael> tmb: even if we replace current server that take a lot of place with more powerfull and small one ?
19:45:06 <MrsB> I wouldn't want to dedicate a seerver to the task and have it sit there unused, but ideally I thiink the ultimate solution would be to have something which ties in with the build system and automates some regression testing
19:45:13 <tmb> ennael, well, we should reserve that space for an UPS to shield atleast valstar (svn/git/repo/...), alamut (sql+ wiki + foruom) and maybe fiona (backup)
19:45:14 <Akien> So IIUC QA would not need particular investments for now, but maybe some resources on existing machines to starting playing with automation technologies?
19:45:39 <Akien> s/starting/start/
19:45:42 <ennael> rabbit may help but it will need some more disk space
19:45:42 <tmb> ennael, we have had way to much power issues lately at the dc
19:46:11 <wilcal> Sorry "DC"??
19:46:17 <leuhmanu> datacenter
19:46:23 <wilcal> LOcated at?
19:46:26 <MrsB> wilcal: hi btw
19:46:29 <ennael> Marseille
19:46:31 <leuhmanu> marseille south france
19:46:32 <wilcal> Hi MrsB
19:46:32 <ennael> south of France
19:46:45 <filip_> hi there
19:46:53 <MrsB> and filip_ hi :)
19:46:58 <wilcal> Can anyone of the Mageia team reach out at touch that box in Marseille?
19:47:09 <Schultz> the nuclear wind hasn't been blowing strongly enough down south
19:47:16 <tmb> ennael, yes, we could beef up rabbit with more disks (wich we get when new valstar arrives), and it could do some QA work
19:47:24 <ennael> ok guys can we go back to subject :)
19:47:41 <ennael> tmb: yep so need is new disks
19:48:02 <ennael> #info QA team: plan more disk space rabbit to develop automatic tests
19:48:37 <MrsB> At least if there is space to experiment it's one les obstcal to doing so
19:48:42 <MrsB> obstical
19:48:44 <tmb> ennael, well, for infra we need new valstar, an UPS, and maybe a KVM-over-IP switch (or check what iDrac enterprise costs)
19:49:23 <ennael> ok can we have specific description and price ?
19:49:46 <leuhmanu> was the planned server not bought ?
19:49:48 <tmb> trouble is a new valstar is still  requested new price / not ordered :/
19:49:59 <leuhmanu> ok have my answer
19:50:03 <tmb> *still not*
19:50:09 <ennael> ok so I need to kick ass :)
19:50:33 <tmb> yep, I dont have long enough legs :)
19:50:47 <ennael> :)
19:50:57 <DavidWHodgins> lol
19:51:01 * Akien hands over a shield to coincoin.
19:53:10 <ennael> ok I will ping about this
19:53:13 * sebsebseb is here now
19:53:33 <ennael> tmb: any other needs for sysadmins ?
19:53:44 <ennael> you can list it's christmas :)
19:54:52 <tmb> well, there was some discussions about reworking the arm setuo, but I haven't heard from rtp lately
19:55:15 <ennael> ok
19:55:36 <tmb> anyway new valstar + ups + kvm will probably go between 4-7000
19:55:51 <MrsB> ouch
19:56:13 <tmb> looking on financial status in beginning of march this year we have ~14000
19:56:18 <ennael> yep
19:56:29 <MrsB> oh ok, doing alright at the moment then
19:56:40 <ennael> yep we do have regular donations
19:56:46 <ennael> and some are really nice one
19:57:05 <MrsB> in that case ... :D
19:57:10 <ennael> :)
19:57:16 <filip_> so we have an obligation to invest visely
19:57:21 <ennael> ok next one may be atelier
19:57:37 <ennael> grenoya sent an email about this
19:57:46 <ennael> grenoya: can you sum it up ?
19:57:53 <grenoya> yes
19:58:06 <MrsB> One more for QA might to be to get some uefi or nvidia/intel hardware for QA team testers for mga5, sorry for late suggestion
19:58:27 <ennael> MrsB: how would we manage this ?
19:59:00 <MrsB> In which way, maintaining ownership?
19:59:33 <doktor5000_> ennael:  MrsB: attach a small htpc to the kvm-over-IP switch in the DC for central access?
20:00:51 <ennael> MrsB: who will get hardware for the tests ?
20:01:15 <Akien> MrsB: We already have quite a few contributors with UEFI and/or nvidia/intel hardware
20:01:23 <Akien> e.g. Stormi :-p
20:01:25 <Akien> (or me)
20:01:29 <MrsB> There are a number of regular testers who could use it
20:01:34 <MrsB> iso testing i mean
20:01:40 <sebsebseb> nice all the current QA team members are getting bought  new WIndows 8 computers for UEFI tsting of Mageia, using the Magiea funding, awesome heh heh
20:01:46 <Akien> But more hardware is always better
20:01:56 <MrsB> If we have people who will test then that's fine
20:03:10 <grenoya> so, atelier asked some time ago some storage (git for marcom and artwork, ftp for web). But Coling and tmb have actions on that already
20:03:21 <MrsB> anyway, sorry to jump in again, we can can assess requirements at a later date, pleas go on
20:03:51 <tmb> well, an UEFI box can be built ~200€
20:05:07 <tmb> grenoya, yep, I started on fixing up the storage but got sidetracked fixing up rabbit for iso builds... so it will take some more days to finish it up
20:05:28 <grenoya> tmb: thanks for the status :)
20:06:18 <grenoya> we were also thinking a testing web server would be nice and could be used also by i18n and doc teams
20:06:38 <grenoya> but we know it means work from sysadmins and council may not agree
20:07:01 <tmb> grenoya, yes, that sounds really useful... shouldn't be hard to setup
20:07:08 <filip_> there is actually http://www-test.mageia.org/ already
20:07:11 <ennael> you mean a virtual environment you could break as you want ? :)
20:07:22 <filip_> but empty
20:07:35 <grenoya> ennael: definitly something we could break as we want :)
20:07:50 <ennael> ok so it seems doable as said tmb
20:08:18 <grenoya> good :)
20:08:23 <grenoya> thanks
20:08:36 <tmb> indeed www-test is running on champagne... only downside it is not so big on storage, so depends what you want to test
20:09:21 <grenoya> first is www
20:09:56 <grenoya> maybe some other pages/apps we wants to work on (mirrors, doc...)
20:11:15 <grenoya> I think that's all for atelier's needs
20:11:26 <lebarhon> On MLO (French forum) people are asking themselves how to help QA
20:11:54 <leuhmanu> pleas go in #mageia-qa
20:12:17 <lebarhon> they don't speak English
20:12:43 <leuhmanu> anyway but we are in meeting, not related ;)
20:13:13 <ennael> grenoya: that would be great also to have some information about goodies and all this kind of stuff
20:13:53 <Akien> lebarhon: I think the simplest way (at first) would be to join #MLO and get help from leuhmanu, david_david or me
20:14:24 <grenoya> oops! forgot a bit of marcom part: "We would like a big event box full of Stuff"
20:14:32 <MrsB> \o/
20:14:32 <ennael> :)
20:14:36 <grenoya> Trish did not give more information
20:14:49 <ennael> ok can you try to check with her about this ?
20:15:00 <grenoya> yes
20:15:14 <grenoya> will sent a mail about that
20:15:30 <ennael> thanks
20:15:38 <ennael> anything else ?
20:15:48 <DavidWHodgins> Yes
20:15:48 <ennael> (we do not pay for beers or vacations:p)
20:16:24 <Akien> Well i18n needs so money, only love :-)
20:16:31 <Akien> And fresh water
20:16:36 <Akien> s/so/no/
20:16:51 <ennael> ok :)
20:16:54 <ennael> next topic then :)
20:16:58 <ennael> #topic coming events for Mageia
20:17:10 <ennael> a quick one about coming events
20:17:23 <ennael> so we have Solution Linux in Paris, end of may
20:17:51 <DavidWHodgins> I think for those who want paid support, we should encourage the pacakergs to fom a corporatioan, to proide the support, but also provide their updates to Magisa.
20:18:04 <sebsebseb> and the Berin one LInux Tag at begining of May, and I won't be going to either
20:18:55 <ennael> people here going to Linuxtag ?
20:19:24 <sebsebseb> actuall it seems Maiea may not get a presence this year at LInux Tag going by some emails I got before, but I can't tell you if that is realy the case or not
20:20:04 <ennael> well it's not in list of exhibitors on the web site
20:20:10 <leuhmanu> even Oliver and doktor5000_ ?
20:20:34 <tmb> didn't Oliver ask for more volunteers for it in order to register, but got no help :/
20:20:34 <Akien> I think marja plans to go there
20:20:48 <leuhmanu> ah sorry to missed it
20:20:55 <sebsebseb> it seems  the usal people were all having issues when it comes to attending that one
20:20:58 <Akien> At least she talked about Berlin, but maybe it was not for LinuxTag :-)
20:21:15 <sebsebseb> so it seems there may not be a Magiea stand, but you have to ask Oliver etc, to find out for sure
20:21:44 <sebsebseb> Akien:  yes that would have been LInux Tag
20:23:25 <tmb> Looking on the mail from March 17th, it was LinuxTag, and since no-one else could help, booth was not requested
20:23:56 <ennael> ok
20:24:02 <ennael> any other event planned ?
20:24:18 <DavidWHodgins> Have to go. Bye for now.
20:24:31 <ennael> oh we will have a talk from coling in Distro Recipes in PAris in June
20:24:57 <doktor5000_> besides, LinuxTag changed locations, and is now in parallel to two other fairs ...
20:25:16 <sebsebseb> there's always things like OGG Camp coming up later on in the year, the biggeest UK  open source free software free culuture event, but no Mageia stands panned for that as far as I know, even though it's free to have a stand there.  openSUSE had  in 2012,  Fedora had in 2013
20:25:35 <sebsebseb> so wasted oppertunity really not having a presence
20:25:42 <ennael> sebsebseb: if you volunteer let's go
20:26:17 <ennael> ok next topic then
20:26:20 <ennael> #topic blog posts
20:26:46 <ennael> so we really need to publish new articles on our blog
20:27:20 <ennael> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Blog_articles_planning
20:27:23 <ennael> as a reminder
20:27:26 <wilcal> Many thanks to MrsB for pubishing that Heartbleed notice
20:27:27 <MrsB> we were going to do a series of articles about each of the teams
20:27:51 <Akien> BTW about our article on Heartbleed, I think it would have been nice to specify that Mageia servers were not affected (and thus identity accounts not compromised)
20:28:07 <Akien> I added a line about it in the French translation
20:28:25 <MrsB> I purposely didn't mention them as we're a bit outdated and it's probably not best to publicise that
20:29:46 <doktor5000_> MrsB: most of the unaffected distros also use openssl 0.9.8 or 1.0, so no issue with that ...
20:30:13 <MrsB> it's more the other stuff which might be outdated, I think some are still mga1
20:30:21 <Akien> Yes, that's true. Though more than 2 years old is not _that_ old for servers I suppose (provided security fixes are cherry-picked...)
20:30:48 <Akien> Even mdv2010 I think for valstar before it was upgraded :)
20:30:54 <sebsebseb> MrsB: yeah altough it shows it's running old stuff,  when know where to look :d and right on it
20:31:05 <MrsB> yes, there are no sec updates for those
20:31:54 <MrsB> it can be added though if there is a desire for it
20:33:12 <Akien> MrsB: Well, your point is correct, so I don't think it's that important to talk about outdated servers finally :-)
20:33:56 <tmb> Well, actually we have pushed some security updates directly through infra buildsystem and puppet config changes and restricted other services...
20:35:01 <Akien> Yes I'm pretty confident that we have solid servers.
20:35:02 <tmb> so a "semi-LTS" on our servers, especially for remote exploits...
20:35:12 <Akien> That might do a nice blog post by the way :-D
20:35:19 <MrsB> Ok, good to know. That's the reason I didn't mention it anyway
20:36:00 <tmb> "hey we have a semi-LTS, but you cant get it :)"
20:36:51 <filip_> "but you can maintain it"
20:36:57 <filip_> ;)
20:37:08 <MrsB> kind of mageia from scratch
20:37:47 <ennael> ok so back to blog posts ? :)
20:38:18 <MrsB> we should work on the teams thing
20:39:15 <MrsB> explain what each team does, what talents people need to join them, how to get involved, what to expect, etc
20:39:51 <MrsB> humanise mageia to our users who may think you need to be a tech head to help out
20:40:01 <Akien> Yes that would be nice
20:40:33 <ennael> ok so can you all explain it in your teams so that we can start this kind of post ?
20:40:51 <Akien> We've spoken about a blog post to announce our Transifex translation platform, so we could embed it in an overall i18n presentation post
20:40:53 <MrsB> one such post for each team
20:41:05 <ennael> yep
20:42:16 <filip_> Akien: good idea
20:42:42 <Akien> I think filip_ and I can work out a draft over the next two weeks or so
20:42:44 <Akien> filip_: WDYT?
20:43:05 <filip_> I think we should try
20:45:26 <MrsB> it's something we could redo from time to time
20:46:07 <ennael> ok so please keep us informed on council ML sot that we know what is about to be published
20:46:09 <Akien> Yes we've done call to arms during the previous release cycles, but we can try a more complete introduction to what each team does
20:47:10 <MrsB> yeah, to people outside who maybe haven't even thought of contributing. Make it human, so people realise mageia is made by people just like them
20:47:39 <MrsB> it's not a product pushed out by a faceless corporation
20:48:38 <Akien> Indeed, I just had to show a few tricks to Aranud from the MLO community during an event, and now he's started doing QA :)
20:49:12 <MrsB> he's doing well too
20:49:15 <Akien> We just have to make it clear that contributing just means opening the door, and asking "hi there? how can I help?"
20:49:31 <Akien> And coming back the next day, too :-)
20:49:35 <MrsB> yes, and why we need them to
20:50:03 <MrsB> i feel alot of users think of linux as a product now, rather than a project
20:50:54 <wilcal> Many people think "Linux" is a company
20:51:09 <ennael> that's also why they wait more for a ready to use product
20:51:11 <wilcal> "Linux should advertise more" is a common comment
20:51:26 <MrsB> yeah, it's up to us to show them
20:51:40 <wilcal> Linux is now the most widely used OS just people don't know that
20:52:10 <wilcal> Over 1 million new Linux web surfing platforms are shipped every day and growing
20:52:38 <MrsB> that's alot of potential contributors, we just need to find a handful really
20:53:59 <MrsB> if any other major sec updates occur we can do a short blog about those too
20:54:35 <wilcal> Kudos to the entire Mageia community for the response to Heartbleed
20:55:31 <ennael> anything else on that topic?
20:56:59 <sebsebseb> no
20:58:01 <ennael> I guess everybody is falling asleep. Shall we stop for tonight?
20:58:13 <Akien> Maybe an #action about each team having to prepare a blog post about its work?
20:58:35 <wilcal> I need to exit also
20:58:43 <MrsB> Nite wilcal
20:58:51 <wilcal> Nite all
20:59:59 <MrsB> We do need to discuss commercial stuff but here/now is not the time
21:00:11 <MrsB> maybe start with board
21:00:52 <ennael> yep I will setup epoll tomorrow morning as I have no news from oliver
21:01:20 <MrsB> that'll get things moving again
21:01:24 <ennael> yep
21:01:31 <ennael> it's a pain at the moment :)
21:01:40 <ennael> ok so thanks for attending this meeting
21:01:45 <ennael> see you in 2 weeks
21:01:49 <MrsB> thanks ennael
21:01:53 <ennael> #endmeeting