19:42:24 <ennael> #startmeeting 19:42:24 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Mon Apr 14 19:42:24 2014 UTC. The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:42:24 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:42:28 <ennael> ok let start 19:42:41 <ennael> thanks for those around, thanks for taking some time for it 19:43:03 <MrsB> o/ 19:43:11 <ennael> ok so 19:43:17 <ennael> #topic mageia 5 planning 19:43:36 <ennael> so on packagers side we are finalizing specifications 19:43:49 <ennael> we hope to do it tomorrow 19:44:17 <MrsB> It's taken a long time to get to this stage, should we replan the releases? 19:44:40 <ennael> well work has started so we will check it with implied people 19:45:25 <MrsB> it's possible we'll need more time 19:45:27 <Akien> Yes we had quite a long post-mortem, and I feel QA is still deep in it, with the 4.1 ISOs still waiting 19:45:42 <ennael> yep indeed 19:45:50 <MrsB> we're up to our necks still 19:45:59 <sebsebseb> hi 19:46:01 <ennael> while we are speaking about it, is 4.1 finalized? 19:46:26 <Akien> We haven't had much feature proposals either, I feel like a big part of the community has been sleepy since the release 19:46:42 <wilcal> Tired 19:46:49 <ennael> 21:46 < ennael> while we are speaking about it, is 4.1 finalized? 19:46:52 <ennael> MrsB: ? 19:46:54 <Akien> The Cauldron is boiling alright, but I feel there is a lack of impulse 19:46:55 <sebsebseb> Akien: lack of interest? 19:47:03 <Akien> ennael: I don't think so 19:47:08 <leuhmanu> ennael: server is done 19:47:12 <leuhmanu> down 19:47:21 <ennael> server ? 19:47:33 <leuhmanu> rabbit 19:47:33 <ennael> rabbit ? 19:47:42 <ennael> ok so I have to ping people about it 19:48:02 <MrsB> Hard to say, the syslinux bug seems fixed but I personally haven't had opportunity to test them. Reports were previously ok though and Dave was keen to push it before but wouldn't make the call. We could release but I'd not be able to say through personally testing them. 19:48:04 <grenoya> rabbit was having problem latly 19:48:21 <ennael> #actoin check with sysadmins rabbit server status 19:48:23 <sebsebseb> O 19:48:27 <sebsebseb> I 19:48:34 <ennael> #action check with sysadmins rabbit server status 19:48:39 <sebsebseb> I plan to test some 4.1 soon myself, and got a old lap top to test with here 19:48:43 <leuhmanu> tmb and pterjan pinged dams without success iirc 19:49:00 <ennael> while we are on it, we may need to rebuild all isos to include openssl fix... 19:49:25 <MrsB> there will be alot of new fixes probably 19:49:54 <leuhmanu> the iso will never be out if we include all updates :) 19:50:00 <MrsB> we've had to concentrate on updates so 4.1 has very much taken a back seat 19:50:24 <ennael> I'm concerned about that openssl bug 19:50:30 <ennael> it's big enough 19:51:05 <MrsB> yes, if you're going to rebuild them it's a valid reason to do so 19:51:23 <ennael> ok anyway it needs sysadmin action here. 19:51:32 <ennael> so back on mageia 5 19:52:14 <MrsB> I agree with Akien we need to inject some energy 19:52:33 <ennael> just do it :) 19:53:06 <wilcal> What is the most exciting thing going to be about M5? 19:53:41 <leuhmanu> stability ? 19:53:59 <wilcal> "Stability" is never exciting :-0 19:54:11 <MrsB> not seen the list of features 19:54:12 <Remmy> Never exciting, always good. 19:54:31 <ennael> well maybe all people here should have a look on features first 19:54:42 <ennael> it's hard to speak about things we do not all know 19:54:54 <wilcal> "Marketing" should come up with a one line catch phrase about M5 19:55:23 <leuhmanu> (but yes I didn't read proposed feature) 19:55:52 <sebsebseb> I went through the features myself before, about three weeks or so ago, nothing that ground breaking sure, but generally all nice features I think. h 19:56:04 <sebsebseb> I could see how they could all get accepted then, except for possibly the XFCE ISO 19:56:43 <MrsB> maybe a good stable release without too many whizzy new gadgets would be a good thing 19:56:56 <wilcal> Having been some considerable time in Markekeing if there's nothing exciting about your product create some BS 19:56:58 <ennael> mainly improvment on mageia specificities (drakx*), work on KDE menu, new fs by default 19:57:25 <sebsebseb> yep indeed and BTFS by default :) 19:57:26 <MrsB> do you have a link to the feature list ennael please 19:57:30 <wilcal> Old Drag Racing term - If it don't go chrome it 19:57:38 <MrsB> lol wilcal 19:57:40 <Akien> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Category:ProposedFeatureMageia5 19:57:50 <MrsB> thanks Akien 19:58:25 <wilcal> Or include something none, or not many, of the other Distros will have 19:58:33 <Akien> philippem: Where is the DefaultToPython3 feature? :-D 19:59:23 <sebsebseb> wilcal: yep 19:59:38 <Akien> wilcal: There's this "optimus" feature, but I'm not sure we have the resources to make it happen. The user requesting it think we could use Ubuntu's "Nvidia Prime", but the latter is no upstream project, it's just a bunch of Ubuntu dirty workarounds to get everything set up 20:00:12 <MrsB> you've got that working haven't you Akien? 20:00:31 <Akien> MrsB: Through bumblebee yes, it works quite okay, though it's not a great software either 20:00:36 <Akien> tmb doesn't like it :-p 20:00:49 <Akien> But the feature would be for "native" support of this optimus technology 20:01:14 <Akien> I'll look into it again and ping some knowledgeable nvidia packagers, to see if something can be done 20:01:22 <Akien> I'll add my input to the feature proposal 20:01:56 <MrsB> Not sure what does what, we'll need to find people with that hardware available for testing 20:02:09 <MrsB> or purchase some 20:02:41 <Akien> MrsB: We are quite a lot to have such hardware, most recent gaming-capable computers have it 20:03:07 <MrsB> is it only new hardware? 20:03:10 <wilcal> Only thing I can think of is including Lightworks in the repo but that may not fit into our community 20:03:33 <wilcal> OpenShot 2.0 is probably not going to be ready before M5 releases 20:03:51 <Akien> MrsB: It's a two/three years old technology from nvidia (that's basically the "intel/nvidia" we got problems with during the mga4 release cycle) 20:03:56 <doktor5000__> MrsB: yep, now 20:03:56 <sebsebseb> also the Yogoslaiva stuff should get sorted out for Mageia 5 really :d Yougoslavia hasn't exsted for a long time, but yet the time zone stuff and keyboard stuff mentions it 20:04:08 <MrsB> the feature proposals have been created it's about selecting which we can fulfill now wilcal 20:04:21 <Akien> sebsebseb: Is there a bug report for this? 20:04:35 <sebsebseb> Akien: no don't think so 20:04:38 <Akien> I think it's not an issue to have a small feature list. 20:05:05 <MrsB> we've still not fully implemented grub2 or uefi 20:05:17 <Akien> As said previously, we can focus on what we have for now. And I think the current features leave plenty of room for other release-cycle objectives, such as improving our teams and workflows 20:05:29 <sebsebseb> I think colin said he had other stuff to do or something, hence not many features from him this time, but that's ok 20:05:51 <Akien> Upgrading the wiki, starting sysadmins mentorship, having a development roadmap for the drakxtools 20:06:31 <Akien> Those things are not bound to the mga5 release, but it's also a sort of goal I suppose, as the features are 20:06:45 <grenoya> ennael: how much time was there to propose something? and wasn't there more proposals the other times? 20:06:53 <MrsB> yes I agree Akien, it's better to consolidate what we have 20:07:17 <MrsB> about a month grenoya 20:07:18 <ennael> grenoya: time is over? We had some more but many of them were proposed by non technical guys 20:07:20 <Akien> grenoya: Officially there were only a few weeks, but I guess features that got proposed afterwards got considered too 20:07:30 <ennael> at least non able to take part in implementation 20:08:07 <ennael> also we still have to go inside old specifications that were not implemented to add it in list 20:08:07 <sebsebseb> MrsB: implementing Grub 2 properly and UEFI secure boot, for Mageia 5 would be good yeah :) 20:08:28 <grenoya> and in terms of needed arms, it's all technical (dev/packagers) for what I can see, isn't it? 20:08:39 <wilcal> I think the GRUB2 thing would be a good idea 20:08:43 <ennael> in my opinion we have enough ork for a release if we do it properly 20:09:09 <ennael> the thing in these last weeks is malo has been very busy moving to the US 20:09:14 <wilcal> Think of one special app or feature to put under a spotlight 20:09:15 <grenoya> ennael: for dev/packagers yes :) 20:09:19 <ennael> and I was also very busy with real life 20:09:27 <sebsebseb> oh he's moved to the US, I didn't know that, interesting 20:09:42 <ennael> we are getting back in line and will follow much more than we did 20:09:48 <wilcal> Gets people wanting to be involved in whatever they contribute 20:10:08 <MrsB> wilcal: discuss that with atelier if you like, some marketing 20:10:17 <ennael> yep marketing can help on this 20:10:25 <sebsebseb> marketing of what? 20:10:30 <wilcal> I think there's a Marketing meeting right? 20:10:35 <sebsebseb> wilcal: no 20:10:35 <ennael> it can start with non technical messages 20:10:48 <Akien> I agree that UEFI support would be nice, it could make Mageia a really good candidate for install parties 20:10:50 * leuhmanu could suggest to drop all unmaitened mageia tools but well 20:11:02 <sebsebseb> leuhmanu: heh heh 20:11:18 <wilcal> I took part in a Mandriva install party a long time ago 20:11:28 <ennael> we can drop everything it will be easier :) 20:11:32 <wilcal> Probably was the last install of the day being here in San Diego 20:11:45 <Akien> I got feedback from a LUG that tried to install Mageia in install parties, but got issues with UEFI, so they tried something else (maybe they hadn't more luck with other distros, though) 20:12:02 <sebsebseb> yes Grub 2 and UEFI secure boot needs properly implemented 20:12:03 <leuhmanu> not everything, but these that does'nt work anymore/have no contributor 20:12:08 <ennael> ok guys we are speaking about lots of things 20:12:26 <ennael> can we try to sum up and decide some actions? 20:13:31 <sebsebseb> I guess 20:13:39 <sebsebseb> so 20:13:49 <grenoya> ennael: communication compagne to find new contributors what ever the team? 20:14:01 <ennael> what well we need some communication 20:14:09 <ennael> this is next topic but well we can have it now 20:14:15 <ennael> nothing happend on our blog 20:14:18 <ennael> happened 20:14:28 <ennael> let's give some news of the Mageia community 20:14:31 <Akien> We need proper objectives before we request for more contributors 20:14:46 <Akien> If they arrive and we can't tell them what's up, they will lose interest 20:15:05 <grenoya> Akien: good point 20:15:08 <ennael> we have objectives 20:15:09 <wilcal> We had a discussion in the qa-meeting about putting the position of Mageia about Heartbleed in the Mageia Blog 20:15:16 <ennael> even if it does not seem enough for you 20:15:34 <Akien> So we should validate the Features list, and maybe work on a few parallel objectives as stated previously (drakx* dev team, wiki upgrade) 20:15:36 <ennael> could we have a blog post about heatbleed 20:15:48 <ennael> let say thow e handle security update 20:15:48 <MrsB> wilcal started one 20:15:50 <ennael> the tools 20:15:56 <ennael> the people implied 20:16:11 <MrsB> it'll need info from sysadmin regarding status of our servers/certs 20:16:26 <ennael> I guess this can be done in a pad so that we can all contribute if necessary 20:16:35 <MrsB> good idea 20:16:41 <Akien> I think Mageia was not affected by the bug, because our infra was too old :) 20:16:48 <Akien> (I mean the Mageia servers) 20:16:52 <ennael> Akien: you may be right 20:16:55 <wilcal> We need to state that clearly in the Blog 20:16:58 <ennael> but at least we are safe 20:17:14 <ennael> but this can be explained 20:17:18 <sebsebseb> Akien: that sounds a bit hmm, well we were to uhmm not up to date, so we didn't get effected, that's what that sounds like heh heh 20:17:23 <ennael> we are not the only one to use older distros 20:17:27 <MrsB> not in those words though, something more like mga servers are not succeptable 20:17:32 <Akien> Yes it would be nice to tell our users that identity.mageia.org was not affected 20:17:57 <wilcal> What I would say in the Blog would be too "Corporate" sorry that's the way my brain works 20:18:23 <wilcal> Tell it as simply as possible in the Blog 20:18:28 <sebsebseb> wilcal: maybe you should put something about if peopel should reset their password for any other accounts etc to, j ust a genearl thing. not Mageia specific, but still relivent 20:18:46 <Akien> Well it's pretty simple: the bug was introduced on Dec 31, 2011, and IINM Mageia infrastructure was still on mdv2010.1, so our openssl was too old to have the faulty feature 20:18:50 <wilcal> I did and shared it with MrsB, again too corporate 20:18:59 <Akien> But our sysadmins would know better :) 20:19:01 <ennael> Akien: ? 20:19:19 <wilcal> we need something very simple to say 20:19:20 <ennael> could you please be a bit more positive that's not fair for our sysadmins guys 20:19:40 <Akien> ennael: I'm quite positive, maybe my phrasing wasn't good 20:19:56 <Akien> s/would know better/would know better than me/ 20:19:56 <ennael> https://pad.riseup.net/p/mageia_openssl 20:19:57 <wilcal> One sentence we are not effected. One sentence why 20:19:58 <[mbot> [ Riseup Pad ] 20:20:01 <ennael> to start with 20:20:16 <ennael> just put everything there we can sort then what should be added or not 20:20:25 <MrsB> paste your one there wilcal 20:20:44 <wilcal> dokto5000 was/is get'n pretty beat up on the Forum about it last Friday 20:20:55 <wilcal> I will 20:21:24 <Akien> ennael: Basically I'm just saying that from my understand, Mageia's server are not subject to the bug. I'm not criticizing anyone 20:21:36 <Akien> s/understand/understanding/ 20:21:56 <leuhmanu> but dams updates some one so.. 20:22:05 <ennael> we do have pretty recent one 20:22:15 <ennael> on web side 20:22:20 <ennael> but also rabbit was 20:22:23 <ennael> and some others 20:22:51 <Akien> At least identity tests negative there: https://filippo.io/Heartbleed/ 20:22:52 <[mbot> [ Test your server for Heartbleed (CVE-2014-0160) ] 20:27:10 * ennael promises she did not use any matches 20:27:25 <ennael> ok mail sent to sysadmins about information we could add in this post 20:27:26 <Akien> :) 20:27:36 <grenoya> :) 20:27:54 <Akien> ennael: To cauterize the wound and stop the heartbleed? :-D 20:28:12 <ennael> that may help :) 20:28:22 <doktor5000__> wilcal: I wasn't beat up, just answered questions 20:28:41 <ennael> I'm working on a blog post explaining the release process 20:29:06 <wilcal> Questions that I don't think you had the resouces to answer, not your fault not Mageia's fault it all happened so fast 20:29:07 <ennael> I may have it ready in about 2 weeks so it would be nice if we can finalize that heartbleed one quickly 20:29:16 <wilcal> It's still happening over here in the press 20:29:41 <Akien> I guess i18n could prepare a blog post about our translation platform on Transifex (for when there's a need for a fill-in article) 20:29:51 <Akien> Transifex is quite simple, so we already got lots of new contributors 20:29:52 <ennael> Akien: nice one 20:30:05 <ennael> go for it :) 20:30:37 <Akien> We get a new translator every other day on Tx! \o/ 20:30:55 <ennael> see some motivation :) 20:30:56 <ennael> ok 20:30:57 <MrsB> nice going 20:31:31 <ennael> #action reactivate our blog: heartbleed, release process, i18n translation platform 20:31:45 <ennael> so we may add also a post about specifications and planning 20:32:06 <Akien> Indeed 20:32:11 <Akien> And hopefully soon about Mageia 4.1 20:32:16 <ennael> I'm pretty sure there is a positive way to speak about less "sexy" features 20:32:24 <ennael> and explain why they are important 20:32:47 <MrsB> teams too, what each team is and does and how people can help, find out more and get involved 20:32:54 <ennael> sure 20:33:14 <ennael> mageia is a distro but even more a community and this needs to be reexplained 20:33:20 <Akien> Yes, we can put forward that now would be the perfect time to join a team while things are not too hectic 20:33:35 <Akien> Learn QA little by little before the big ISO testing comes, and so on 20:33:39 <malo> hi, sorry I'm late 20:33:49 <MrsB> morning malo 20:33:51 <ennael> malo: you will be burnt in public place 20:34:05 <MrsB> you have to say y'all now :) 20:34:09 <ennael> :) 20:34:15 <sebsebseb> malo: you move to the US interesting, to California it seems to going by your... 20:34:26 <malo> howdy all 20:34:29 <sebsebseb> hi malo :) 20:34:31 <ennael> malo: so we have to finalize spec reviews tomorrow so that we can communicate on it 20:34:33 <wilcal> Ah California the land of Fruits and Nuts 20:34:40 <malo> ennael: sure 20:34:44 <MrsB> two nuts present :P 20:34:47 <sebsebseb> malo: maybe your to clever to work in England so you have to go over there instead heh heh 20:35:31 <malo> sebsebseb: 26 degrees today here. That's the reason 20:35:54 <sebsebseb> I don't like being cold either, but ok back on topic then 20:36:16 <MrsB> topic is still mga5 planning 20:36:32 <ennael> you all do not hesitate also to write features about your teams 20:36:36 <wilcal> KInda went far ranging didn't it 20:36:41 <ennael> it can be organization, tools... 20:36:45 <grenoya> ennael: is there a dead line? 20:37:06 <ennael> not really on this side 20:37:15 <ennael> usually you all have some todo list 20:37:28 <ennael> it's a way to make it official and readable easily by everyone 20:38:55 * ennael thinks she is proposing silly things that killed them all 20:39:02 <Akien> :-) 20:39:15 <grenoya> ennael: no, non :) 20:39:34 <ennael> ok let start with these actions then 20:39:47 <ennael> when all features are validated, then please have a look on it 20:40:10 <ennael> we can discuss again about it and see how we can explain it and make it more readable and interesting 20:40:22 <ennael> is that ok ? 20:40:31 <malo> ennael: sounds good 20:41:35 <grenoya> good :) 20:41:59 <ennael> ok anything else on Mageia 5 ? qa, i18n, forums, marcom ? 20:42:08 <ennael> any information for everybody here 20:42:14 <Akien> I'm concerned about how we can track the "broader" objectives that we have, that are not specific to Mageia 5 20:42:33 <ennael> can you explain a bit more? 20:42:36 <Akien> Yep 20:43:12 <Akien> I mean things such as the wiki upgrade, the mentoring programs and so on 20:43:19 <Akien> The setting of the drakx dev team 20:43:42 <Akien> So objectives that are important community-wise, but not directly related to the next release 20:43:55 <MrsB> we have team reviews every so often 20:44:09 <ennael> yep we should do it once a month I guess 20:44:21 <ennael> each team reporting about that kind of objectives 20:44:26 <MrsB> i think so, it helps people to have time targets 20:44:41 <ennael> we can decide all what we have as "broader" objective 20:45:12 <Akien> There was also the artwork and QA server space issue, that got stalled for months; if it were documented somewhere, together with its progress, maybe it would have been done sooner 20:45:21 <ennael> in 1 week for example mail council to list these objectives 20:45:36 <Akien> But yes I agree the team reviews have to handle this at the very least 20:45:54 <ennael> then next meeting we know all of them and team review is based on it 20:46:03 <ennael> is it goo for you? 20:46:06 <ennael> good 20:46:08 <MrsB> good idea 20:46:09 <Akien> Ok 20:46:34 <ennael> #action all teams will post their main objectives in coming week on council ML 20:47:01 <ennael> #action next council meeting will propose team review based at least on the way they work on these objectives 20:47:15 <Akien> Yes actually "team objectives" better conveys what I was trying to say :-) 20:47:32 <ennael> and of course add it on the wiki 20:50:24 <Akien> Should we move on to the next topic? 20:50:27 <MrsB> yep 20:50:28 <ennael> yep 20:50:32 <ennael> so blog is done 20:50:39 <ennael> #topic financial review 20:50:58 <ennael> ok so as you may have seen, we are renewing mageia board 20:51:14 <ennael> in between we have to deal with boklm departure as treasurer 20:51:30 <ennael> so all is in hands but time is going and we need to move on 20:51:51 <ennael> I'd like all teams to have a look on their needs that would require some investment 20:52:13 <ennael> we have some money aside we can use part of it but we need a global action plan for it 20:53:27 <MrsB> infra looks set to use up a big chunk of it 20:53:43 <ennael> sysadmins will list their needs indeed 20:54:15 <Akien> I suppose the needs will mostly be for sysadmins, and maybe a bit for atelier (marketing stuff for events) 20:54:53 <Akien> And if the ARM port is revived, maybe some specific hardware, but I haven't heard about it lately 20:56:12 <ennael> I was also thinking about your needs in term of disk space or VMs or anything else. This should need some more harware ofr example 20:57:15 <MrsB> I'd like to automate some QA testing of updates, that would need some hardware/software/something 20:57:45 <MrsB> VM's would do though 20:58:06 <MrsB> i don't know what system would be the best to use 20:58:14 <ennael> ok so please speak about all this on ML 20:58:18 <malo> MrsB: yes, having some resources to play with various automated QA would be great 20:58:23 <ennael> express your need then admins will check it 20:59:37 <MrsB> i'll put something in an email. Send it to sysadm or council? 21:00:13 <ennael> council first 21:00:58 <MrsB> ok 21:01:58 <ennael> #action mail council about your needs for coming year so that we can plan financial expenses 21:03:47 <MrsB> shall we wrap up then 21:04:21 <wilcal> Yep 21:04:33 <ennael> yep 21:04:41 <ennael> any other topic or comment? 21:05:08 <wilcal> I'm done 21:05:17 <sebsebseb> nope 21:05:21 <ennael> s/done/killed/ 21:05:22 <ennael> :) 21:05:32 <MrsB> we'll need to publish the board election results 21:05:36 <ennael> yep 21:06:00 <sebsebseb> and the proposed Mageia 5 release scheduled 21:07:09 <ennael> ok 21:07:18 <ennael> thanks for attending 21:07:20 <ennael> #endmeeting