20:44:45 <ennael> #startmeeting
20:44:45 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Mon Dec  9 20:44:45 2013 UTC.  The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:44:45 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
20:44:58 <ennael> hi all thanks for being there tonight
20:45:01 <sebsebseb> hi
20:45:15 <marja> yw
20:45:29 <ennael> sorry for last week. real life is sometimes too busy :)
20:45:36 <marja> np :-)
20:46:01 <ennael> ok let start then xwith first topic
20:46:43 <ennael> #topic Mageia 4 todo list and planning: teams review
20:46:49 <ennael> #chair tmb marja
20:46:49 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: ennael marja tmb
20:47:36 <ennael> so the point here is review what tasks are remaining until final release, what was done recently and maybe current problems
20:47:42 <ennael> who wants to start ?
20:47:51 <marja> for docteam
20:48:02 <ennael> yep
20:48:08 <ennael> #info docteam
20:48:20 <marja> what is remaining is to adjust installer help texts to new changes
20:49:07 <marja> the change in the sound configuration has been taken care of, but the other coming change(s) still need to be done
20:49:44 <marja> will we have an extra screen for other desktop choices, or will that stay like it was in Mga 3?
20:50:24 <ennael> good question
20:50:40 <ennael> the only difference I've heard about is rather a difference in the design
20:50:45 <marja> and tv's changes to the package group selection screen
20:50:48 <ennael> using drop down things
20:51:23 <marja> ennael: yes, papoteur pointed me to that, that is in the package group selection screen
20:51:49 <ennael> yep
20:52:49 <marja> anyway, it would be nice to get enough time after those changes are implemented to adjust the help  and to let translators translate the changes
20:53:28 <ennael> ok I will see with tv to sum up all these and mail it as soon as possible
20:53:42 <marja> ennael: thx
20:54:06 <marja> ennael: changes that we maybe missed in MCC help would be good to hear about, too
20:54:24 <marja> ennael: s/MCC help/MCC/
20:54:29 <ennael> ok
20:54:59 <marja> papoteur: do you know another thing... or only the wiki?
20:55:32 <marja> ah, forgot to introduce in a meeting: papoteur is our new deputy who replaces obgr_seneca
20:55:55 <papoteur> About the help, it's all what I know.
20:56:00 <marja> papoteur: thx
20:56:38 <filip> hi. there. Sorry for beeing late. Just another Monday ;).
20:57:03 <marja> to enable our wiki in other languages, we need the translate extension, which needs a currently supported mediawiki version
20:57:25 <marja> akien will see whether he can help
20:57:40 <ennael> welcome papoteur
20:57:57 <papoteur> Thx
20:58:37 <marja> that's it for docteam
20:58:50 <ennael> thanks marja
20:59:00 <ennael> i18n ?
20:59:22 <marja> filip: akien is studying
20:59:36 <ennael> #info i18n
20:59:40 <filip> ok. report about i18n?
20:59:42 <ennael> filip: your turn then :)
21:00:25 <filip> thx. in general translation is in progress. I think it's going well.
21:01:23 <filip> as we decided to use tx from upstream on the last meeting we also need some time to organize it to suit us
21:01:55 <ennael> what about packages for mageia 4 including translations?
21:02:00 <filip> In general we can do our job but we had some questions about some of the resources
21:02:24 <filip> AFAIK they are pushed ok.
21:02:39 <filip> we'll try to be on schedulle
21:03:10 <ennael> ok ring the bell if needed :)
21:03:28 <filip> Akien send a question on dev list about one resource but no answer yet.
21:04:00 <ennael> can you remind me the mail subject ?
21:04:39 <filip> just a sec
21:04:57 <marja> What should i18n do with drakx/perl-install/install/help?
21:05:17 <ennael> What should i18n do with drakx/perl-install/install/help?
21:05:20 <ennael> arf :)
21:05:29 <marja> lol
21:05:29 <filip> What should i18n do with drakx/perl-install/install/help?
21:05:33 <marja> grinz
21:05:43 <ennael> :)
21:05:57 <filip> first mail on 2013/11/7 and second today
21:06:58 <ennael> ok I will ping tv on that one
21:07:21 <filip> thx ennael
21:08:19 <filip> it's connected with mdv import of that resource which fuzied a lot of strings unnecesery
21:08:45 <filip> but at least some strings are still in use
21:08:45 <Akien> But as a whole I think i18n/l10n is doing great. Doing the transition to Transifex gave us a better visibility, and it seems to be easier for new translators to join in.
21:08:56 <filip> true
21:08:59 <Akien> marja got us some German translators back :)
21:09:37 <ennael> that's great to hear
21:09:42 <ennael> thanks for all the efforts
21:09:55 <filip> also ML seems more alive then som time ago
21:10:12 <marja> it sure is :-)
21:10:34 <ennael> we will need also to synchronise with atelier team for all the stuff about blog and many others about mageia 4 release announcement
21:10:37 <Akien> Yeah, it was a great move to officialize filip's and yurchor's responsibilities :p
21:10:49 <marja> :-)
21:11:05 <filip> thx Akien
21:11:09 <filip> and marja
21:11:17 <marja> yurchor: filip: papoteur: can you post to council ml?
21:12:06 * yurchor has not tried but it seems so.
21:12:07 <papoteur> marja: I did not try yet.
21:12:08 <filip> I'll try in need and report
21:12:33 <filip> yurchor: subscription is not enough
21:12:49 <marja> filip: I think you can, you're in the council group now, so is yurchor http://people.mageia.org/g/mga-council.html
21:12:50 <[mbot> [ people.mageia.org: g/mga-council ]
21:13:12 <marja> tmb: can you please add papoteur to council group?
21:13:21 <yurchor> filip: Ok. I will yell when I need to post . ;)
21:13:54 <filip> please do. I'll cover my ears ;)
21:14:55 <tmb> marja: done
21:15:07 <marja> tmb: that's fast, thx :-)
21:15:33 <filip> ennael: can we do something to prepare mageia 4 release announcement a bit sooner than mga3
21:16:05 <filip> we need to translate the page and we need at least some days
21:16:08 <DavidWHodgins> We should also announce that beta 2 is going to be late
21:16:41 <malo_> Hi, sorry I'm very late
21:16:51 <marja> malo_: welcome anyway :-)
21:16:54 <ennael> filip: yep sure
21:17:01 <ennael> do we have atelier people around ?
21:17:28 <sebsebseb> me, but no leaders hre
21:17:32 <sebsebseb> no team leaders
21:17:56 <ennael> ok I will mail atelier ML then
21:18:07 * filip is here but he's more i18n guy and a front end is not really his strong point
21:18:17 <ennael> filip: are you registered to atelier ML ?
21:18:23 <filip> yes
21:18:26 <ennael> ok then
21:18:34 <sebsebseb> ok so two Atelier people then, but not team leaders
21:18:50 <Akien> I'm somewhat atelier too, in my spare time :p
21:19:12 <ennael> ok anything else for i18n ?
21:19:24 <sebsebseb> yep 3 then :d
21:19:33 <filip> we created some tools for us
21:19:56 <filip> can we use server capacities if we needed to run them?
21:20:06 <Akien> Ah yes, one more thing
21:20:21 <Akien> I sent a RFC on the dev ML about adding a .tx/config file to all po folders
21:20:41 <Akien> It would make the task of synchronizing Transifex with git really easy
21:20:58 <Akien> But we don't know if it would be okay to do so, or if it would be a bother for the devs
21:21:43 <filip> the mail is called:
21:21:44 <filip> [RFC] Add .tx/config in each po folder of our git resources
21:24:03 <ennael> Akien: this is to be checked with sysadmins team
21:24:03 <DavidWHodgins> coling: Could adding the .tx/config be automated for each git repo?
21:24:12 <tmb> I dont see a problem with that if it helps translation workflow
21:25:23 <Akien> Actually it could even help release coling from the task of creating a i18n repo: with this config files and filip's script to checkout the git repos, we're already well equipped
21:25:36 <tmb> only thing needed is to modify the Makefile tarball targets to ignore those files/dirs and we are all ok
21:25:37 <coling> DavidWHodgins, not had a chance to look properly sadly, but in principle yes.
21:27:18 <ennael> ok anything else for i18n ?
21:27:22 <tmb> and anyone with git commit access can add those files / dirs
21:27:38 <Akien> ennael: I think we're done
21:27:59 <ennael> thanks :)
21:28:07 <ennael> anybody from QA team?
21:28:12 <DavidWHodgins> Yes
21:28:18 <ennael> your turn :)
21:28:23 <ennael> #info QA
21:28:56 <filip> tmb: so we have a green light for tx files?
21:28:56 <DavidWHodgins> We have kernel updates to test, which will take a few days at least, plus beta 2, which is our current priority. Need new iso images. :-)
21:29:22 <sebsebseb> ok so Beta 2 getting delayed then
21:29:31 <ennael> new iso images are on the way
21:29:33 <DavidWHodgins> sebsebseb: Yep.
21:30:07 <DavidWHodgins> We should put out a very short blog post, I think, that beta 2 will be delayed for at least a day.
21:30:41 <ennael> yep ok
21:30:54 <DavidWHodgins> Other than that, qa is doing ok
21:31:46 <ennael> ok
21:32:02 <DavidWHodgins> Other than the live iso installs "remove unused hardware support" removing things like gdm, I think it's very close to being releaseable.
21:32:25 <ennael> ok :)
21:32:42 <tmb> filip: go for it
21:32:59 <filip> tmb: thx
21:33:58 <ennael> tmb: want to speak about sysadmins ?
21:34:09 <tmb> not really :)
21:34:15 <ennael> ok :)
21:34:32 <tmb> but coling did update forum so thats a big +
21:34:37 <ennael> the-guys-who-never-speak-but-do-the-job :)
21:34:40 <marja> it is!
21:34:44 * coling even documented it.
21:34:45 <ennael> thanks coling indeed
21:34:47 <coling> ;)
21:34:49 <sebsebseb> the forum?  I havne't looked, but the logo thing?
21:34:50 <ennael> woot
21:34:52 <DavidWHodgins> ☺
21:35:04 <coling> http://gitweb.mageia.org/web/forums/about/
21:35:05 <[mbot> [ forums - The forums.mageia.org Website ]
21:35:08 <coling> (for reference)
21:35:10 <coling> Ohhhh.
21:35:23 <sebsebseb> oh  it was probably ATelier, soeone  and that someone being Akien i THIN, suggeted updating the logo
21:35:29 * coling forgot, I wrote a blog post about the git conversion but never handed it over to Trish /o\
21:35:30 <sebsebseb> for the ofrum
21:35:53 * coling wrote it on a flight then forgot all about it!
21:36:07 <marja> coling: it is never too late :-)
21:36:07 <filip> about the forum. I think it needs mognase navigation.
21:36:20 <coling> marja, indeed.
21:36:42 <tmb> other than that not much has happend... I had planned to do some stuff to get backports of the ground but then $dayjob nearly killed me ... so it't waiting cor xmas hollidays now...
21:37:31 <marja> tmb: hope they'll be very long
21:38:04 <coling> I'm also keep to look into boklm's "new mga repo" plan (i.e. pkgs git conversion) but it's a pretty big job (with pretty big CPU time overheads at some point too) so it'll not happen until 2nd Quarter next year I recekon.
21:38:04 <tmb> yeah, I'm trying to get 3 weeks off :)
21:38:12 <marja> tmb: nice :-)
21:39:21 <marja> coling: what does "pretty big CPU time overheads" boil down to?
21:39:39 <tmb> and we should get a new primary server bought... iirc dams mailed council about it
21:39:54 <ennael> when was it?
21:40:03 <coling> marja, A crapload of svn repo parsing to convert to individual git repos... 12k times over ;)
21:40:04 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: I've only seen those messages on the sysadmin list
21:40:16 <ennael> New valstar server: Dell configuration
21:40:43 <marja> coling: I meant: is new hardware (better CPUs) needed?
21:41:04 <DavidWHodgins> marja: Replaced server
21:41:05 <coling> Not specifically.
21:41:17 <coling> Just might take time to do it, but we can plan for it easily enough.
21:41:29 <marja> coling: thx for the explanation :=)
21:42:30 <ennael> ok I've just answered to the mail about this specific need
21:44:44 <ennael> #info packagers
21:44:50 <ennael> ok packagers turn now
21:45:00 <ennael> malo_: want to speak about it?
21:45:15 <malo_> ennael: sure
21:45:33 <malo_> although I've been very busy lately
21:45:51 <malo_> So on the packager front, we got 4 new packagers who graduated recently
21:46:05 <malo_> You-Cheng, Atilla, Sam and Dimitrios
21:46:11 <Akien> \o/
21:46:28 <marja> nice :=)
21:46:32 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
21:46:36 <malo_> You-Cheng will help will all input methods
21:46:43 <marja> perfect!
21:46:47 <malo_> Atilla is the MATE maintainer
21:47:15 <malo_> Sam will maintain nginx
21:47:58 <malo_> and Dimitrios I'm not so sure :-)
21:48:21 <malo_> Apart from these good news, we still have quite a lot of work to do for mga4
21:48:30 <ennael> yep
21:48:33 <malo_> there are still 500 source packages which do not build
21:48:40 <marja> :-/
21:48:40 <malo_> 92 which cannot be installed
21:48:56 <ennael> also we need to review pending release critical bugs
21:49:02 <ennael> the list is not that big
21:49:27 <malo_> we had trouble organising meetings regularly and with good attendance ...
21:49:33 <ennael> yep
21:49:47 <ennael> motivating people to attend seems to be harder
21:49:59 <ennael> I would like us to give another try
21:50:04 <malo_> also ennael and I were very busy and could not spend as much energy recently, so that might explain it
21:50:27 <malo_> thankfully philippem is doing lots of work
21:50:31 <ennael> let see if we can organize a meeting tomorrow for example
21:50:34 <ennael> wdyt?
21:50:57 <malo_> ennael: I can't attend tomorrow, but the meeting is needed ...
21:50:57 <DavidWHodgins> Luigi also needs help getting packagers to help with security updates. There are over 30 packages needing security updates.
21:51:17 <ennael> yep a lot was done recently
21:51:25 <ennael> malo_: ok I will send a mail about it
21:51:46 <malo_> It seems our model of growth with teams and SIG did not work. So we'll need to think again for mga5
21:52:47 <tmb> and "version freeze" tends to make developers disappear until "cauldron re-opened"
21:52:52 <DavidWHodgins> malo_: I don't think "it didn't work". I think it needs more time, and each sig needs a good leader, to organise things.
21:53:58 <Akien> malo_: SIG_games is working! :p
21:54:10 <marja> of course it is :-)
21:54:10 <malo_> Akien: ok
21:54:18 <malo_> tmb: true.
21:54:36 <ennael> this happens since years now
21:54:51 <malo_> DavidWHodgins: that's true. We need fresh leaders, or to empower current packagers more
21:55:03 <ennael> we need to think better about it but not that easy a speople prefer updating new versions rather than fixing bugs
21:55:33 <DavidWHodgins> Part of the problem is, that people who are good at software, are rarely good at organising groups.
21:55:52 <ennael> malo_: anything else we should speak about ?
21:55:58 <malo_> DavidWHodgins: :-)
21:56:02 <DavidWHodgins> I know I'm not, which is why I didn't volunteer for team leader.
21:56:56 <malo_> ennael: nothing much else.
21:57:07 <DavidWHodgins> Can I add a topic?
21:57:07 <ennael> ok
21:57:16 <ennael> DavidWHodgins: yep after the reminaing one :)
21:57:21 <DavidWHodgins> Ok
21:57:24 <ennael> I guess we had all teams
21:57:48 <marja> bugsquad, forums team
21:57:57 <ennael> do we have people around ?
21:58:11 <marja> doktor5000: leuhmanu: ?
21:59:14 <marja> ennael: apparently not
22:00:03 <ennael> ok then we will ask them on ML
22:00:11 <ennael> next topic then
22:00:24 <ennael> #topic mageia 4 artwork
22:00:54 <ennael> so we have a problem here to get a proper artwork for mageia 4
22:01:35 <DavidWHodgins> I'm currently thinking it would be best to keep the existing artwork.
22:01:47 * sebsebseb disagree's with DavidWHodgins
22:01:49 <ennael> well if we cannot get a proper one, yes
22:02:08 <marja> indeed, better keep a good one than switch to a bad one
22:02:19 <ennael> we have 2 ways for the new one. One was proposed on atelier ML, and I've asked on my side my brother to have a look on it
22:02:40 <ennael> I hope he will be able to propose a first version by the end of this week
22:03:05 <DavidWHodgins> Or switch late enough that images in documentation can't be updated in time, in all supported languages.
22:03:06 <ennael> then we will decide if we go on or we stop and keep the old one
22:03:27 <coling> I can ask a designer colleague. Not sure she'd have much time tho'.
22:03:44 <sebsebseb> person I been in contact with, may still be interested, but not sure exactly
22:04:01 <marja> sorry, we will not be able to update help file images just because the background of the original screen changed
22:04:31 <ennael> I just got a message. He will send a proposal in 2 days
22:04:36 <marja> nice
22:04:41 <ennael> then we can decide what to do
22:04:50 <sebsebseb> coling: yes please find a desiger if you can :)
22:04:53 <sebsebseb> ,but time is ticking
22:05:26 <marja> DavidWHodgins: we'll focus on the screens where a function changed
22:05:27 <sebsebseb> ennael: ok nice :)
22:05:55 <marja> DavidWHodgins: and on the new languages.... it is a hell of a job to get all needed screenshots for MCC-help
22:06:24 <DavidWHodgins> marja: I know, that's why I'd prefer we pick one set of artwork, and keep it forever.
22:06:28 <sebsebseb> ennael: remember to send to Atelier and council both :)
22:06:33 <ennael> yep
22:06:41 <marja> DavidWHodgins: that would be my preference, too
22:07:01 <ennael> the thing is people also wait more for new design than software update
22:07:07 <ennael> even if it sounds foolish
22:07:21 <DavidWHodgins> I'm not an "eye-candy" person. I disable desktop effects, etc.
22:07:23 <sebsebseb> a new design is importnat to have I think, if possible
22:07:38 <marja> ennael: I guess you're right, there are people who swap cars for a new design .-/
22:07:38 <ennael> ok anything else on that topic ?
22:07:53 <sebsebseb> DavidWHodgins: yes,but a lot of the end users will be I think
22:08:42 <sebsebseb> marja: exactly
22:09:11 <ennael> ok next topic then
22:09:14 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Re-mastered iso images
22:09:28 <ennael> #topic beta 2 planning
22:09:29 <sebsebseb> oh remasters
22:09:36 <ennael> quick word about beta 2
22:09:47 <DavidWHodgins> Go ahead
22:09:50 <ennael> so tmb has just resynced local repository
22:10:06 <ennael> and we should start building what may be the last set of isos
22:10:22 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
22:10:38 <Akien> marja: I find it okay to have help screenshots with an outdated artwork. Showing the artwork is not the point of these screenshots, and Mageia 3's design was nice, so you can keep it in the screenshots for a few years :)
22:11:00 <ennael> DavidWHodgins: so stay around for tests :)
22:11:11 <DavidWHodgins> Regarding the remasters, I think it would be a good idea to release remastered iso images, just before the prior release goes eol.
22:11:20 <marja> Akien: thx :-)
22:11:34 <ennael> may I ask what is remastered isos ?
22:11:42 <sebsebseb> Akien: yeah true,  the documentaiton can be on a slightly older artwork I guess really, but we topicchanged to beta 2 planning
22:11:49 <DavidWHodgins> Make it easier for people who wait till their current version goes eol, to install/upgrade.
22:12:21 <DavidWHodgins> ennael: For example, a new Mageia 3 iso, with all updates installed.
22:12:28 <sebsebseb> DavidWHodgins: oh snapshot builds witth updates
22:12:35 <sebsebseb> yeah I got you
22:13:10 <DavidWHodgins> Same packages as original, but with all updates, so the installer will have less updates to download.
22:13:30 <DavidWHodgins> Also, bug 10722 needs to be fixed.
22:13:41 <Akien> Do we really need remaster ISOs if we're on a 9-months release schedule?
22:13:53 <sebsebseb> makes sense I think, but it's more work for QA :d  however it would make upgrading to the next verson easier for people,  or I think that's what DavidWHodgins is trying to say
22:14:17 <Akien> I mean, we'll release Mageia 5 around the time when Mageia 3 will be EOL, so is there a point in releasing remastered Mageia 4 ISOs then?
22:14:48 <DavidWHodgins> Took me 3 hours to upgrade my sister's system yesterday (online upgrade),  as I knew using a Mageia 3 iso would then require a massive amout of updates.
22:15:25 <sebsebseb> yep downloading lots from repo's can take ages,  being able to just have it intalled from a ISO is faster
22:15:37 <Akien> Ah I get the point
22:15:53 <DavidWHodgins> I still have two other systems to upgrade.
22:16:09 <sebsebseb> DavidWHodgins: might be worth doing a update ISO  half way through  the support scheudled or so to, but this is all work for QA if so
22:17:19 <sebsebseb> and ISO makers
22:18:19 <DavidWHodgins> I figure if we start making them about a month before the prior release goes eol, that would be enough time to build/test them, before the eol date.
22:18:40 <DavidWHodgins> Would save downloading the bulk of the updates, multiple times.
22:18:48 <sebsebseb> yep indeed
22:19:10 <DavidWHodgins> ennael: tmb: What do you think?
22:19:46 <tmb> well, I can respin isos on "daily basis" but they need qa
22:20:16 <ennael> well for now unless it happens in the beginning of the dev cycles it will be hard to manage due to workload of QA and release managers
22:20:40 <ennael> still as just said tmb it can be done of course but it needs a carefull QA on it
22:20:41 <tmb> and for example when we switch to 3.10 series kernels on mga3 it could be useful with new isos
22:21:26 <sebsebseb> when is that likely to happen?
22:21:28 <DavidWHodgins> I think qa has enough people who like testing iso images (though not regular updates), that we could handle it.
22:21:41 * sebsebseb agrees with DavidWHodgins
22:21:55 <ennael> sebsebseb: you are not doing QA on isos :)
22:22:10 <ennael> if QA team agrees on workload then we can give a try
22:22:35 <DavidWHodgins> We should confirm with Clair, but I expect she'll agree.
22:22:44 <DavidWHodgins> s /Clair/Claire/
22:23:30 <DavidWHodgins> ennael: sebsebseb is not on the qa team
22:23:36 <ennael> ok let see with her then
22:23:55 <DavidWHodgins> I'll email her about it with a cc to you and tmb
22:23:56 <ennael> DavidWHodgins: can you mail qa-discuss ?
22:24:02 <ennael> ok
22:24:36 <sebsebseb> DavidWHodgins: I am sort of, but yeah need to do more ISO testig in that case really, been busy with other things recently etc
22:24:51 <ennael> ok then
22:24:54 <DavidWHodgins> I think that's it for this topic
22:25:08 <ennael> I will also post on blog for beta2 delay
22:25:25 <DavidWHodgins> Thanks
22:26:06 <ennael> anything else that should be added ?
22:26:24 <DavidWHodgins> Not here
22:26:28 <marja> nor here
22:26:48 * filip sleeps
22:26:54 <ennael> :)
22:27:03 <ennael> speak now or never! :)
22:27:16 <marja> or on the ml :-þ
22:27:26 <DavidWHodgins> Let's end meeting. :-)
22:27:38 <ennael> thanks all for attending
22:27:41 <ennael> #endmeeting