20:17:40 <rda> #startmeeting 20:17:40 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Mon Nov 7 20:17:40 2011 UTC. The chair is rda. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:17:40 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 20:17:45 <rda> #chair ennael 20:17:45 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: ennael rda 20:18:04 <rda> #topic large (nonfree) games 20:18:04 <Anssi> of course, coming up with a clear non-fuzzy policy about that is more difficult 20:20:04 <ennael> ok let set topics 20:20:17 <ennael> #topic Product names 20:20:31 <obgr_seneca> Now we have two topics :/ 20:20:31 <ennael> obgr_seneca mailed council ML about some kind of policy 20:20:38 <ennael> oups 20:20:40 <ennael> sorry 20:20:43 <ennael> #undo 20:20:43 <Inigo_Montoya> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x859ba0c> 20:20:45 <rda> ennael: "et ben alors ?" 20:20:51 * ennael is tired :) 20:20:56 <ennael> too much wiki today :) 20:21:06 <ennael> sorry 20:21:07 <obgr_seneca> ennael: I know the feeling :) 20:21:26 <ennael> so about large games but it can also be something else 20:21:45 <ennael> how can we fix some kind of limit or rules ? 20:21:51 <obgr_seneca> I think, we should have some policy about nonfree software once and for all 20:22:01 <trishf42> +1 20:22:05 <obgr_seneca> free games are often quite large as well 20:22:09 <ennael> why speaking again about this ? 20:22:17 <ennael> I thought non free topic was closed 20:22:29 <obgr_seneca> ennael: it was? sorry 20:22:41 <ennael> maybe I was dreaming :) 20:23:58 <leuhmanu> and what about include nonfree package in isos ? or make a zip/iso od the nonfree/tainted repo ? 20:23:59 <Anssi> well, large free games are free and we are promoting free software by distributing them... which is not the case for large non-free games 20:24:08 <leuhmanu> same topic ? cf https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=523 20:24:31 <ennael> leuhmanu: this is different question... 20:24:37 <ennael> rather about product definition 20:24:37 <leuhmanu> okok 20:24:49 <ennael> but stil it has to be finalized indeed 20:25:17 <leuhmanu> https://bugs.mageia.org/buglist.cgi?product=Mageia&component=Release%20%28media%20or%20process%29&resolution=--- for a quick list, but for packager meeting I guess 20:25:26 <Anssi> but this is just my opinion, I don't feel too strongly about it so if most if you people want to allow big non-free games in the repo, we can allow it 20:26:37 <rda> I don't think there's a big difference, apart the storage size, between nonfree sotware and nonfree games. Or am I missing the point? 20:26:54 <Stormi> yes, the only difference is size 20:27:08 <obgr_seneca> Is it me or don't we have a very clear thread of discussion 20:27:36 <trishf42> not very clear, no... 20:27:59 <Anssi> yes, I'm talking about games that are around 200-1000 MB 20:28:15 * obgr_seneca is talking about a package with 1.6 MB :D 20:28:21 <rda> ha 20:28:23 <ennael> so question is "shall we define a rule for packages size especially games and especially non-free packages?" 20:29:04 <rda> what's the impact on: the build system, the primary mirrors and subsequent mirrors? (and are these the only points to take into account) 20:29:58 <rda> obgr_seneca: ok, so in your case, it's just a nonfree software with an acceptable redistribution license, so it is ok for nonfree 20:30:13 <obgr_seneca> ok 20:31:02 <Stormi> in obgr_seneca's question is that of demo software too 20:31:37 <rda> Stormi: doesn't matter if it's a demo or not in my opinion 20:31:41 <Anssi> rda: not sure about your points, especially since I'm not sure about how common such games are and how many would get packaged 20:31:50 <Stormi> also, I forgot, is there a *public* redistribution license now? 20:32:05 <rda> Stormi: obgr_seneca pointed to https://ml.mageia.org/l/arc/council/2011-11/msg00001.html 20:32:06 <ennael> well pushing a 200Mo non free demo seems foolish imho 20:32:15 <obgr_seneca> yep 20:32:20 <rda> Anssi: ennael: yeah, that's another point 20:32:21 <Anssi> to me the problem is simply the feeling that an uncomfortably large percentage of our distribution would be non-free 20:32:33 <Stormi> rda: I missed that :/ 20:33:21 <Anssi> ... if there are many of these multi-hundred-megabyte monsters added, that is 20:33:41 <rda> Anssi: yeah, but inevitably, we will have requests for nonfree software anyway. so either we should directly support it (include in our nonfree or other media), either we should enable people to easily distribute it on their end (having their own repository that people could add) 20:34:42 <ennael> I wouold prefer Second one 20:34:46 <ennael> would 20:34:56 <rda> it would seem reasonable that editor AcmeGames would host a mageia.acmegames.com/pub/games repository 20:35:17 <rda> provided we could provide AcmeGames tools to make sure their RPMs are not hideous 20:35:57 <rda> (ok bad example, acmegames does exist; replace with exampleGames then :-p ) 20:36:01 <obgr_seneca> If it's about multi-hundred-megabyte nonfree packages I would prefer the second one, too 20:36:08 <Anssi> well, non-free games are usually just a zip/tarball that can be unzipped and then run in-place... but indeed one doesn't get automatic menu integration etc... 20:36:49 <rda> that will require a bit of advocacy on our end too I guess 20:37:28 <ennael> let's get a plf contract 20:37:29 <ennael> hum 20:37:54 <Stormi> can we allow solutions such as get-skype, that downloads from upstream? 20:38:17 <Stormi> so that the editor doesn't have to provide media for mageia but we don't have to store the files 20:38:45 <ennael> well we do it because we cannot redistribute 20:38:59 <ennael> not a good thing to generalize imho 20:39:17 * boklm does not think mageia should be used to promote demo software 20:40:26 <rda> it's not promotion per se 20:40:42 <rda> it's more enabling users to do it. 20:41:13 <ennael> promotion or not I don't see the point in having demo software taking Mo in repositories 20:41:32 <obgr_seneca> That's why I asked 20:43:33 <rda> so the alternative is: have a get-skype-like package, or let the editor (or someone else) set up a specific repository 20:43:39 <rda> or is there another solution? 20:44:06 <ennael> get-skype-like package is not a solution imho 20:48:23 <rda> what's the problem with it? 20:48:31 * boklm thinks mageia should only provide minimal number of nonfree software that don't have free alternative available, and concentrate on free software 20:49:08 <ennael> we are lacking of maintainers for very basic one 20:49:27 <rda> could someone list the in/outs of these several (and maybe others) options? 20:51:38 <rda> yes, but what about those who volunteer for those then? the question is, how do we decide if something goes into nonfree or into a 3rd repository (in case the volunteer really is determined) 20:53:35 <ennael> one important thing is mirrors admins are carefull with size of repos 20:54:03 <ennael> and spreading skype way of packaging is just not packaging 20:54:19 <ennael> so managing it apart looks more sensible imho 20:56:16 <ennael> ok shall we sum up this in a mail 20:56:17 <ennael> ? 20:56:24 <ennael> to avoid sleeping on kayboard 20:57:03 <obgr_seneca> good idea 20:57:15 <rda> obgr_seneca: could you sum it up then? : 20:57:21 <obgr_seneca> ok 20:57:51 <ennael> thanks :) 20:58:35 <obgr_seneca> if people do read it and reply :/ 20:59:01 <ennael> we will do 20:59:10 <ennael> good transition for other topics :) 21:02:53 <ennael> #action obgr_seneca will sum up by mail all alternatives we have about large packages 21:02:59 <obgr_seneca> shall we go on, then? 21:03:02 <ennael> yep 21:03:18 <ennael> #topic Product names 21:03:38 <ennael> obgr_seneca mailed council ML about some kind of policy 21:03:50 <obgr_seneca> trishf42 did, but it's ok 21:03:54 <ennael> https://ml.mageia.org/l/arc/council/2011-10/msg00030.html 21:03:55 <trishf42> 8-) 21:04:01 <ennael> oups sorry 21:04:41 <obgr_seneca> Since I brought it up by importing the page into the new wiki... 21:04:47 <trishf42> mainly because the product naming page on the new wiki is out of date 21:05:21 <rda> it was a working doc, it's never been in sync, actually 21:07:28 <ennael> so shall we keep it for memory or just throw it ? 21:08:13 <obgr_seneca> I personally prefer the way all the others are going to ours: mageia-2-foo-bar.iso instead of mageia-foo-2-bar.iso 21:09:25 <coincoin> hello, sorry for the delay 21:10:13 <rda> I would keep it; assign it to me so I cleanup the page. but I agree with obgr, mageia-{version}-{other}.iso should be consistent on all ISOs. 21:10:38 <ennael> ok can we have it for alpha1 ? 21:10:48 <obgr_seneca> rda: You know where to find it 21:11:12 <trishf42> that all sounds *loads* easier... 8-) 21:11:14 <rda> obgr_seneca: yep 21:11:47 <rda> ennael: will be done by this week 21:11:53 <ennael> great 21:12:02 <ennael> then we will apply it for first dev release 21:13:54 <ennael> #action fix isos name for alpha1 and publish policy in wiki 21:14:37 <ennael> #topic i18n day for drakxtools 21:14:46 <ennael> obgr_seneca mailed about https://mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/2011-November/009292.html 21:14:52 <ennael> obgr_seneca: your turn this time 21:15:36 <obgr_seneca> Before the release of Mga1 i18n didn't catch up on all languages 21:16:01 <obgr_seneca> And as I was told, I said to the teams to concentrate on the installer parts 21:16:13 <obgr_seneca> The rest could be updated later 21:16:43 <ennael> yep trying to avoid multiple updates for one string each 21:17:11 <obgr_seneca> It's now 5 month since the release and I'd like to have translation updates for those language teams that didn't finish and for those that fixed errors 21:17:20 <obgr_seneca> I'd like to do it in one push 21:18:09 <obgr_seneca> So - as I said in the mail - we could post on the blog for people to look for translation errors and report them 21:18:24 <obgr_seneca> Then give i18n two weeks time and push an update 21:19:19 <ennael> yep looks like a good idea 21:19:32 <obgr_seneca> Shall I write that blog post? 21:19:55 <ennael> as you propose it yes :) 21:20:09 <obgr_seneca> could you do an action for me? 21:20:24 <ennael> yep 21:21:01 <ennael> #action obgr_seneca will write a blog post about Drakxtools translation days to update it in one shot 21:21:14 <obgr_seneca> Thanks! 21:21:47 <ennael> #topic wiki migration 21:21:51 <ennael> quick review ? 21:21:56 <ennael> trishf42 ? obgr_seneca ? 21:22:12 <obgr_seneca> As I see it, we have most pages imported now 21:22:20 <trishf42> I'm currently going through all the marcom-related stuff and cleaning it up - nearly done 21:22:27 <trishf42> fixing links and whatnot 21:22:37 <obgr_seneca> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Wiki_import_list 21:22:57 <obgr_seneca> Still some to go, but we should have it this week 21:23:01 <trishf42> need to chase someone about the left-side menu links 21:23:29 <trishf42> and there's a couple of teams still need their bit on the Contributors page 21:23:52 <obgr_seneca> there's https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3202 21:23:55 <trishf42> obgr_seneca: do you need help cleaning up links and stuff? 21:24:00 <obgr_seneca> that should be fixed 21:24:07 <obgr_seneca> trishf42: always! 21:24:15 <trishf42> okay, I'll keep at it 21:24:27 <obgr_seneca> Marja and MrsB are doing a great job on the whole scale 21:24:45 <obgr_seneca> They have been doing quite a lot of the work 21:27:44 <ennael> ok so we may be able to open wiki by the end of the week ? 21:27:51 <ennael> what will be the Main page ? 21:28:29 <obgr_seneca> http://www.mandrivauser.de/mga-testwiki/index.php/Olis_Playground 21:28:35 <obgr_seneca> Something like that? 21:28:46 <ennael> yep 21:29:07 <obgr_seneca> What topics there? 21:29:17 <ennael> ? 21:29:53 <obgr_seneca> I mean, what big Categories to link to there? 21:30:27 <obgr_seneca> For the beginning the four I put on my playground? 21:30:53 <ennael> Distribution planning or Distribution development ? 21:30:57 <ennael> including planning 21:31:03 <obgr_seneca> development is better 21:31:31 <ennael> as we need to have a focus from Main page for dev release isso 21:31:33 <ennael> isos 21:31:45 <ennael> can you import this in wiki ? 21:32:00 <obgr_seneca> Should be done in 5-10 minutes 21:32:05 <ennael> great 21:32:21 <ennael> #info wiki migration should be almost done by the end of the week 21:32:23 <obgr_seneca> I'll do it first thing tomorrow, ok? 21:32:38 <ennael> no pb 21:32:52 <ennael> any othr topic, question, comment ? 21:33:21 <Stormi> yes 21:33:25 <trishf42> nothing from me 21:33:40 <ennael> Stormi: yep ? 21:33:44 <Stormi> I will represent mageia at JDLL (lyon free software days) 21:33:57 <Stormi> and wondered what "material" we have 21:34:01 <ennael> coincoin: ? 21:34:32 <coincoin> yep, I can provide a few TS (I can list all available sizes) 21:34:46 <coincoin> and also stikers/flyers/poster 21:35:03 <coincoin> Stormi: I can send you an email with what I can send you if you want 21:35:10 <Stormi> coincoin: good idea 21:35:20 <obgr_seneca> Oh, I almost forgot, I will represent Mageia at "Open Rhein Ruhr" this weekend 21:35:31 <coincoin> Stormi: good, I will do it :) 21:35:58 <coincoin> I can give you a financial point if you want on the BS needs and the Marseille trip 21:36:25 <trishf42> coincoin: can they go up on the wiki (or somewhere everyone can get at them)? 21:36:25 <ennael> #topic financial review on hardware 21:36:47 <coincoin> trishf42: sure, I will put this on the wiki 21:36:54 <trishf42> thanks! 21:36:58 <coincoin> we received the Dell server: yummy! what a powerful server 21:37:05 * ennael lets rda and coincoin ending meeting 21:37:07 <ennael> 'night 21:37:14 <obgr_seneca> g'night ennael 21:37:23 <coincoin> for the Mouser boards (ARM imx53), they will arrive tomorrow or the day after tomorrow 21:37:32 <coincoin> Fedex issue so shipment delayed 21:37:43 <coincoin> 'night ennael 21:37:48 <rda> ennael: night 21:37:57 <coincoin> #info Dell server received (test in progress) 21:38:13 <coincoin> #info ARM boards in shipment, should arrive in 2 days 21:38:38 <trishf42> ennael: night 21:38:38 <coincoin> for the HDD, we bought them just before the big big big raise of the price 21:38:49 <obgr_seneca> coincoin: good 21:39:26 <coincoin> order still waiting for the final validation as I paid via bank transfer (not to use my blue card as I already bought the Dell server with it...) 21:39:43 <coincoin> if no news in 3 days, I will send an email to the shop 21:40:24 <coincoin> obgr_seneca: 190 �HT (140� HT before the Tha�ssue and 306 �HT now!) 21:40:34 <coincoin> that's all for the HW part 21:41:01 <obgr_seneca> coincoin: I was looking at the prizees a few days ago 21:41:55 <coincoin> it's now cheaper (in France) to buy a 250 GB SSD instead of a 500 GB HDD oO 21:42:06 <coincoin> anything else to add? 21:45:14 <coincoin> ok, so... 21:45:17 <coincoin> thank you all 21:45:21 <coincoin> #endmeeting 21:45:32 <obgr_seneca> I think rda has to end the meeting 21:45:38 <rda> thx everyone 21:45:40 <rda> #endmeeting