19:30:29 <misc> #startmeeting 19:30:29 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Mon Jul 4 19:30:29 2011 UTC. The chair is misc. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:30:29 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:30:33 <misc> #name council 19:31:01 <misc> ok so let's start with the pending todo list 19:31:06 <misc> #topic TODO list 19:31:35 <misc> so last week, no meeting so the TODO list is http://meetbot.mageia.org/mageia-meeting/2011/mageia-meeting.2011-06-20-19.04.html 19:32:13 <misc> trishf42: just to be sure, the blog post about release was pushed ? 19:32:37 <trishf42> the post-release blog post - yes, that happened, it was pushed 19:32:44 <trishf42> a week and a half ago 19:32:49 <misc> ok, was not sure :) 19:32:53 <trishf42> there have been 2 or three since then 19:33:01 <misc> #info blog post was pushed 19:33:44 <misc> about doc team, obgr_seneca said he would be busy for the 2 next week ( one week ago ) 19:33:51 <misc> but did someone took his duty ? 19:34:59 <trishf42> not that I heard. 19:35:21 <trishf42> I'd like to join docteam, but not until end July, haven't got time now 19:35:32 <misc> #info oliver is absent https://mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-i18n/2011-June/002092.html 19:35:55 <misc> trishf42: well, we seek more someone to create it, and to take care of the growth for starting everything :) 19:36:16 <trishf42> I figured that 8-) 19:36:17 <misc> ( and i am still concerned that people already doing good work should not take more work :/ ) 19:36:27 * trishf42 hangs head 19:36:37 <trishf42> we need more people! 19:36:51 <misc> or less work :) 19:37:04 <misc> #info docteam creation didn't change so far 19:37:50 <misc> last item on the TODO list was the list of person and a meeting for the forum issue, but it seems to be a topic on its own, so let's skip for now 19:38:03 <misc> #topic coming events for Mageia 19:38:18 * trishf42 listens alertly 19:38:35 <misc> ok so , there is a plural, so maybe ennael had a idea, but to me, the next even is Libre Software Meeting, in one week 19:38:51 <trishf42> do we need anything from marcom for it? 19:39:01 <trishf42> I have time this week, for a wonder 19:39:03 <misc> well, a blog post, I was about to write one 19:39:12 <trishf42> cool, I can proof if you want 19:39:15 <misc> yep 19:39:25 <trishf42> ping me when you're ready 19:39:28 <misc> #action trishf42 misc, write a blog post for LSM 19:39:52 <misc> do we have some "marketing material" ( flyers, etc) ? 19:40:26 <trishf42> we don't yet - I'm working with artwork on generating all that stuff, but it's slow going - we should have something in a couple of weeks. 19:40:36 <misc> oki no problem 19:40:37 <trishf42> kakemono, posters, flyers 19:40:40 <trishf42> all together 19:40:52 <trishf42> I'll leap on it at the artwork meeting wednesday 19:41:22 * misc should also finish what he promised to artwork 19:41:32 <misc> so does someone think of another event soon ? 19:41:55 <tmb> not me 19:42:41 <trishf42> AAATE? 19:42:51 <trishf42> end of august 19:42:52 <misc> aaate ? 19:43:12 <trishf42> it's assistive technology in europe, i forget exactly what it stands for 19:43:31 <trishf42> maybe we're a year early - we don't really have an AT version yet 19:43:33 <tmb> http://www.aaate.net/ 19:43:39 <trishf42> that's it 19:44:39 <misc> that a interesting idea, but we indeed do not have anything about accessibility 19:46:17 <trishf42> if someone could find the missing 12 hours, I'd get stuck into it 19:47:12 * tmb have a few years lost somewhere ... :) 19:47:14 <trishf42> anyway, don't know if there are any other events in the next 2 months 19:47:28 <trishf42> tmb: at 12 hours a day, it doesn't take long 19:47:54 <tmb> trishf42: true 19:47:56 <misc> ok so if no one has events proposal, let's see for next time 19:48:08 <tmb> yep 19:48:11 <trishf42> ok 19:48:19 <misc> #topic specifications 19:48:32 <misc> I was expecting ennael to take care of this one 19:49:06 <misc> so we have the specification and ideas for next release ( despites not having the planning yet, no time to finish read everything ) 19:49:15 <trishf42> link? 19:50:18 <trishf42> http://www.mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=iso2:technical_specification 19:50:25 <trishf42> Dang, there's a lot of it 19:50:51 <misc> yup 19:51:03 <misc> so the question is how to organize, for all team 19:51:14 <tmb> yep 19:51:19 <misc> on the technical side, but also regarding marketing, doc 19:51:37 <trishf42> Aaargh... 19:51:48 <trishf42> I'd like to see the specs organised properly first... 19:51:50 <misc> we also need to know if a feature is complete or not 19:52:11 <misc> organized for sure, but organized how ? 19:52:25 <misc> ( ie, sorted by category, sorted by advancement ? ) 19:53:22 <trishf42> I'll need to look at it. Tomorrow. I'm thinking a tree structure, but that might change... anyway, I'll look at it. 19:53:42 <misc> we wanted to enter this on bugzilla for a start 19:53:45 <trishf42> I'll post to the list when I've got it straight in my head 19:53:52 <trishf42> enter what? 19:53:56 <trishf42> the whole process? 19:54:15 <misc> no, each feature, to track them on the technical side 19:54:33 <misc> ( so we can assign them to people, etc ) 19:55:40 <trishf42> ah, okay 19:55:51 <trishf42> there are some bugs assigned already, I see 19:56:17 <misc> yes 19:56:22 <trishf42> not many 19:56:46 <trishf42> can we put it as an action to re-organise the specs into something we can work with? I'm happy to spend some time on this 19:57:03 <misc> yep, if you are volunteer, you can do what you want :) 19:57:14 <misc> #action trishf42 reorganize the spec 19:57:24 <trishf42> cool, thanks 19:57:48 <tmb> I guess the same moscow filtering can be used... 19:58:09 <tmb> like we did for mageia 1 19:58:38 <trishf42> explain please? 19:58:56 <tmb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MoSCoW_Method 19:59:25 <tmb> basically the prioritizing 20:00:04 * misc has now the clip from Dschinghis Khan his head 20:00:18 <trishf42> okay, thanks - good notion 20:01:37 <misc> the problem is that while we can say "this is important, this is not", people will still work on what they prefer :) 20:02:17 <tmb> true, but atleast for qa it will matter 20:02:35 <misc> yes 20:02:51 <trishf42> and for setting deadlines 20:02:59 <tmb> yep 20:02:59 <misc> yes, too 20:03:39 <trishf42> so, we need to organise it by team, by MoSCoW, and tag it by where it fits into the overall distro... yes? Any other ways? 20:04:30 * trishf42 getting more tea - all this talk is very drying 20:04:40 <ennael> hi there... sorry last minute event 20:04:57 <misc> trishf42: seems enough, it seems already enough work 20:06:11 <tmb> yeah, lets not kill trishf42 :) 20:06:55 <trishf42> 8-) It won't be that bad... 20:07:07 <trishf42> and it's easier to design it in at the start than to go back and do it all over 20:07:17 <tmb> true 20:07:30 <misc> anyway, next topic , or something to add ? 20:07:39 <trishf42> nope, i'm good 20:07:53 <tmb> not for me 20:08:00 <misc> #chair ennael 20:08:00 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: ennael misc 20:08:10 <misc> so next topic, the discussion around forums 20:08:17 <misc> #topic forums 20:08:29 <ennael> ah just in teim for my favorite topic :) 20:08:35 <trishf42> 8-) 20:09:01 <ennael> time 20:09:24 <tmb> ennael: yeah, we waited an extra 30 min to start so you wouldnt miss it :) 20:09:51 <ennael> that's so kind :) 20:10:46 <ennael> ok so we do have a pb that needs some decision 20:11:09 <ennael> things went too long and too far imho 20:11:51 <maat> hem 20:11:57 <maat> hi there 20:12:09 <ennael> just finishing my sentence 20:12:32 <ennael> Mageia was started as a collaborative project and opened 20:12:53 <ennael> this is not the case for now at least as a team / forum 20:13:02 <ennael> I don't want t know who is responsible 20:13:16 <ennael> the point is we have a conflict here and we need to solve it 20:14:36 * maat raises hand 20:14:38 <misc> we started to solve it 2 weeks ago, but I guess we lost track of this 20:15:02 <ennael> we need clear planning, solutions 20:15:06 <ennael> and concrete results 20:16:55 <misc> well, the planning was clear to me, so the main problem was there was no meeting, because lots of people were busy 20:16:57 <maat> may i ? 20:17:07 <misc> maat: yes 20:17:37 <maat> first of all i respectfully but definetely disagree with many things here 20:17:49 <maat> 1) ennael this is not the case for now at least as a team / forum <-- this is false 20:18:11 <maat> 2) ennael and concrete results <-- we have concrete results 20:18:46 <ennael> I'm not speaking about forums setup but regarding to people complaining 20:18:53 <maat> i agree though that we need to solve a problem 20:19:14 <maat> exactly 20:19:21 <maat> people complaning 20:19:29 <maat> but not many 20:19:36 <ennael> we cannot always say they are just complaining 20:19:57 <maat> well 20:20:09 <maat> they are just complaining 20:20:17 <trishf42> can I ask, what it is that people are complaining about? I haven't really kept up with this... 20:20:25 <misc> and who 20:20:26 <maat> ask moderators if you want an inside view 20:20:42 <ennael> of course people you are managing without any transparency 20:20:43 <trishf42> maat: who are the moderators I should ask? 20:20:54 <ennael> what about people who want to join ? 20:20:56 <maat> see how the great part of users are enjoying the forums 20:21:12 <maat> trishf42: isadora, Germ, rom1dep, ashledombos 20:21:19 <ennael> come on 20:21:24 <ennael> ash is not here anymore 20:21:26 <maat> that would give you a good glance on what's being done 20:21:29 <misc> ashledombos said he wanted to no longer participate, did he change his mind ? 20:21:32 <trishf42> okay - I don't know those guys 20:21:46 <ennael> and we do have always the same guys 20:21:52 <ennael> while other would like to join 20:21:58 <ennael> and what about other communities ? 20:21:59 <maat> ennael: misc: he's still there and organizing to find time for forums 20:22:06 <ennael> no way 20:22:10 <ennael> it cannot work like that 20:22:15 <misc> maat: so, is there a list of criterais to become moderator somewhere ? 20:22:30 <maat> misc: if you want one you'll have it 20:22:37 <ennael> ??? 20:22:56 <misc> maat: well, i think that would help for deciding, and to set expectation 20:22:58 <trishf42> I'm still wondering what the complaints have been... 20:23:05 <maat> i explained this already nut if you like i can explain again :) 20:23:13 <trishf42> maat 20:23:17 <trishf42> please do 20:23:18 <maat> trishf42: ? 20:23:20 <trishf42> I'm lost! 20:23:25 <maat> so 20:23:30 <ennael> this is going nowhere 20:23:35 <misc> trishf42: http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=forum_discussion_week25#b_open_questions_about_the_current_forum_organisation 20:23:44 <maat> for trishf42 and those who did not follow 20:23:54 <trishf42> thanks 20:24:12 <maat> the misson given to me by council through anne and romain 20:24:27 <maat> was to build a forum where users could find a sweet home 20:24:46 <maat> in other words something different from mandriva's previous way 20:24:53 <maat> where mood was'nt so sweet 20:25:08 <maat> and where the place was a nightmare for moderators 20:25:24 <maat> so i came with a few simple ideas 20:25:44 <maat> moderators were separated and worked without taking to each other 20:25:46 <misc> that were sent to the council ? 20:25:51 <maat> and being able to help each other 20:26:03 <maat> misc: perhaps not all 20:26:15 <maat> but please wait till the end 20:26:16 <misc> maat: but some did ? 20:26:28 <maat> so that all have the same level of information 20:26:30 <maat> thanks 20:26:56 <maat> so the first idea was to have moderators united 20:27:06 <maat> and working as a whole team 20:27:11 <maat> helping each other 20:27:16 <maat> and trusting each other 20:27:20 <ennael> (closed team) 20:27:26 <misc> maat: instead of explaining the idea, can you just direct us to the place where you psoted them ? 20:27:36 <misc> maat: because that's the first issue 20:27:54 <maat> => team relying on a mailing list i asked for 20:28:16 <maat> once you have the global view you'll ask for changes 20:28:32 <misc> so you say that we don't have the global view now ? 20:28:43 <misc> the question is "why" ? 20:28:52 <maat> if you ask for it 20:29:07 <maat> i can reasonably think that you lask something 20:29:11 <maat> :) 20:29:19 <maat> pure deduction 20:29:25 <misc> lask ? 20:29:31 <maat> lack 20:29:40 <maat> (pebkac) 20:29:47 <misc> well, the problem is the lack of information is exactly the issue 20:30:03 <misc> so the question is "how to solve this issue" 20:30:10 <maat> so let adress this lack just now 20:30:27 <maat> and have it solve once for good 20:30:48 <maat> this mailing list is supposed to receive users reports 20:31:06 <maat> so that moderators can reply asking others for advice or thoughts 20:31:42 <maat> for example : "hey make this son of a b*** shut up or i'll have you prosecuted for ***" 20:31:53 <maat> => moderators discussion 20:32:03 <maat> => commpon position 20:32:22 <misc> there is already a list for that 20:32:32 <maat> => moderation action taken by one but with every moderators knowing 20:32:49 <maat> and it's perfectly working 20:32:58 <maat> 2) principle 20:33:06 <misc> yet, it isoperating 1) in secrecy 2) without people involved in forum knowing it 20:33:27 <misc> and people are complaining 20:33:41 <maat> for secrecy you cannot let user reports being shown to the world 20:33:52 <misc> maat: we do for bug 20:34:04 <maat> many of them could put shame on reporters 20:34:05 <misc> and why can't we exactly ? 20:34:19 <maat> and there ere legal issue linked 20:34:35 <misc> if people make report that would put shame on them, this is their problem 20:34:53 <maat> and having reporters names shown to the world is just betrayal 20:35:14 <misc> maat: that's their choice to send a email with their name 20:35:19 <maat> well you'd have no reports at all in no time and hence no self moderation 20:35:34 <maat> and then a need for more moderators 20:35:44 <misc> I see no correlation for that 20:35:49 <maat> that's just not what we want in forums 20:36:00 <misc> why would it happen ? 20:36:24 <misc> so far, what I seen with secret ml is that 1) people become angry 2) people start to think there is complot, and 3) people finally decide to go elsewhere 20:36:26 <maat> there is not one forum in the world publishing reports 20:36:59 <trishf42> It seems to me like there's a disjunct here 20:37:09 <trishf42> between the way maat thinks the forums should be moderated 20:37:27 <maat> misc so far, what I seen with secret ml is that 1) people become angry 2) people start to think there is complot, and 3) people finally decide to go elsewhere <-- completely false 20:37:32 <trishf42> and the way we do things everywhere else - openly and transparently 20:37:44 <trishf42> my take is: either the forums work the mageia way or they're not mageia forums... 20:37:47 <trishf42> my 2c 20:37:57 <misc> maat: see the page made by wobo 20:37:58 <ennael> this is not only about moderation but alos integrating new comers, taking decisions, .... 20:38:29 <trishf42> maat, people only become angry if other people are rude, nasty or cruel. If we're pleasant to each other, that kind of takes the sting out of it 20:38:31 <maat> ennael: this is separated from private list 20:38:46 <ennael> this is also a pb at the moment 20:38:47 <maat> ennael: a public list for that is perfectly ok 20:39:10 <misc> where were the discussion about moderation rules discussed at the moment ? 20:39:39 <maat> atm its on private list till i have the public one created 20:39:52 <misc> maat: so the problem came from the private ml 20:40:18 <maat> nope i don't think so 20:40:30 <maat> in due end it would have been created 20:41:00 <boklm> why not use the "Discussions about forums" forum ? 20:41:15 <maat> boklm: we could also 20:41:32 <misc> maat: https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-sysadm/2010-November/000555.html 20:41:41 <misc> maat: you say "this will be done on a subforum" 20:41:44 <maat> but what i suggested last time was to have a broad list with all forum teams 20:42:15 <maat> so that we can also have a chance to harmonize policies among all forums 20:42:32 <maat> instead of just playing in our tiny garden 20:42:55 <maat> i got in touch with other forum admins 20:42:58 <misc> maat: so why were the rules discussed on a private list while you indicated that this would be done in the open ? 20:43:21 <maat> chinese, french, spanish... 20:43:40 <maat> because that does not harm to discuss things without taking decisions 20:43:47 <misc> it does 20:43:58 <maat> mpany people do that often you know 20:44:12 <maat> that allow to know what people think 20:44:18 <misc> maat: so no decision have been took regarding moderation ? 20:44:23 <maat> nope 20:44:38 <misc> nothing like "let's say the post cannot be edited" ? 20:44:59 <misc> and basically, since 6 months, there is no common policy for moderating or anything ? 20:45:07 <maat> i'd not call that moderation policy 20:45:26 <misc> how would you call this, then 20:45:27 <maat> but nevermind 20:45:56 <maat> i'd call this enforced decision from council that i will not try to argue against 20:46:39 <misc> so basically, 1) there is no policy yet, and this was only discussion about a policy since 4/5 months 20:46:49 <maat> i still consider that a major error 20:47:44 <misc> how do people decide to moderate, based on what criteria ? 20:48:13 <maat> atm it's just netiquette 20:48:31 <maat> but we have had no need to enforce policies up to now 20:49:01 <misc> and what about the policy for accepting or refusing people ? 20:49:17 <misc> ( because that's one point that wobo complained ) 20:49:20 <maat> but just for memory : http://www.mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=sysadmin no policy there and no documentation either 20:49:38 <maat> but there is no wobo to complain :) 20:49:57 <maat> i don't wish you to get one though ;) 20:50:01 <misc> maat: can you explain why you speak of sysadmin ? 20:50:16 <maat> just to give perspective :) 20:50:30 <misc> to give perspective, we do have everything opened 20:50:40 <misc> and no one complained 20:50:53 <maat> just to remind you that forums lack of visible policy is not a single case or exception 20:51:14 <misc> maat: the problem is to not the lack of policy per se 20:51:21 <maat> ha ? 20:51:43 <misc> the problem is the lack of openeness and the fact people complained about it, and the lack of openess come for the lack of clear expectation about how to join the team, among other 20:51:46 <maat> you don't talk to each other using phone either ? or irc pv ? or direct mail ? 20:52:24 <maat> when you decide to speak about one guy willing to enter moderation team you publish all your bad thoughts on the net ? 20:52:35 <maat> dont say because you'd lie 20:52:48 <maat> same thing for forums 20:52:58 <maat> but there is a known list for that 20:53:01 <misc> maat: when i say someone should not become packager or something like that, I usually say it in the open 20:53:32 <misc> and I have justification for that 20:53:52 <maat> for technical aspects perhaps 20:54:27 <misc> anyway, last meeting, I think we all agreed to have a list of people to contact 20:54:49 <maat> publishing that you don't trust someone because he insulted you by mail or just because you consider him a zero 20:55:11 <maat> and giving your veto for him getting root password 20:55:42 <maat> you'd be despicable for publishing such things in an indexed maling list 20:56:09 <maat> sorry but there are things that i prefer not to publish 20:56:31 <maat> and i don't think you do otherwise 20:56:43 <maat> thats just common sense 20:56:46 <misc> so basically, if we speak of the case brought by wobo, you want to be able to say "i do not want thisperson and do not want to explain why" ? 20:56:53 <maat> and respect for people lives 20:57:06 <maat> nope 20:57:10 <misc> ( because that's what is about ) 20:57:50 <maat> i expect sysadmins (for example) to to discuss privately of the people they consider truthful enough to get root pass 20:58:18 <maat> by phone or by direct exchange 20:58:30 <maat> nobody do otherwise 20:58:54 <maat> and saying the contrary is just impossible to trust 20:58:59 <misc> ok, you are too stubborn to understand 20:59:01 <misc> I give up 20:59:16 <maat> well same things for a few subjects concerning moderation 20:59:17 <tmb> maat: btw, when you refuse a person, do you tell him the reason why ? 21:00:03 <maat> tmb: it's a very complex problem but i take it by an other way 21:00:36 <maat> because experience shows that very few people willing to be moderators reveal to be good at that 21:01:11 <maat> so i prefer to charge the moderators to find people with the right profile 21:01:17 <maat> -- active 21:01:21 <maat> -- nice with people 21:01:40 <maat> -- listened to by others without the need of a title 21:02:07 <maat> the list of criterias is very well given by freenode catalyst page 21:02:40 <maat> and what i think is very close to that 21:03:18 <maat> then once a moderator found a good profile it proposes him to the team 21:03:36 <maat> and the guy is offered the job if the whole team is ok 21:03:48 <maat> even if he did not apply 21:04:13 <maat> that's how we recruited isadora 21:04:33 <maat> i did not know her 21:04:58 <maat> just saw her activity on forums 21:05:15 <maat> the team accepted her and once offered she accepted the job 21:05:48 <trishf42> you can't be sure you'll always get the offer accepted, though. 21:05:54 <maat> result : she's doing very well and there is no problem within the team 21:06:03 <trishf42> So you still need a way to do triage on people who apply to be mods. 21:06:11 <maat> trishf42: indeed we are never sure 21:06:30 <tmb> maat: hate to tell you , but imho you just partly ruled out yourself somewhat by the above "profiling"... 21:06:38 <maat> in case of need moderators know the list and can pick people in the list also 21:06:41 <trishf42> What about giving them a probationary period, with expectations? Then, they know what you expect of them, and you take the mod away from them if they fall short... 21:07:38 <trishf42> the thing is, you can't be a "boss" in a community organisation... 8-) 21:07:59 <trishf42> we all have to work on agreed principles that are out in the open where everyone can see them 21:08:12 <trishf42> and if there are conflicts we have to find ways to resolve them 21:08:40 <trishf42> and if we find that there are problems with the principles, or that we have pockets where they aren't being followed 21:08:47 <trishf42> we have to work that out too 21:08:52 <maat> trishf42: perhaps... that deserve to be thought about... i like the idea but the risk to tesp people the reject them scares me 21:09:00 <trishf42> it's up to all of us - no hierarchies here! 21:09:13 <maat> s/tesp people the reject/test people the reject/ 21:09:18 <ennael> maat: well it's all about mentoring process 21:09:27 <trishf42> The thing about probationary periods, and expectations, is that adult people don't actually mind them 21:09:52 <trishf42> and you *have* to have a way to shut down bad things *immediately* if you need to! 21:10:17 <trishf42> If someone comes on a forum and is horribly offensive to other forum members, you must have a way to shut them down 21:10:31 <trishf42> a bad moderator is just the same, only over time rather than all at once 21:10:32 <maat> trishf42: true you are but many people think they can be moderators... so they will be many people willing to be tested if we go that way 21:10:52 <maat> and people frustrated can be ver bad communication vectors 21:11:02 <trishf42> well, that's okay - you work out how many mods you need, and put 21:11:18 <trishf42> and then you put the first come first served principle to work 21:11:34 <trishf42> but before you start, you need to work out the expectations you have from a mod 21:12:07 <maat> that i can transtate it to english 21:12:34 <trishf42> I'm your person for proofing and writing stuff - just ping me or come on the marcomm list with queries 21:12:44 <maat> or ask for help from i18n if they can spare time for that 21:12:48 <trishf42> you can use the marcomm sandbox to write stuff up if you want - we'll help 21:12:58 <trishf42> i18n will surely help if you ask 21:13:06 <trishf42> the marcomm sandbox is here: 21:13:20 <trishf42> dangitall, closed the browser 21:13:22 <trishf42> just a sec 21:13:40 <maat> well i can create a page on the temp wiki if needed :) 21:13:49 <trishf42> http://www.mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=marcom:sandbox 21:14:06 <maat> mageia provides plenty of sandboxes :) 21:14:14 <trishf42> whichever you like - put some stuff up there or a forum mods page, and tell us all about it, and then we can help you! 21:14:29 <tmb> maat: ot just complete the existing one: http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=web:forums 21:14:33 <trishf42> That's what we're for - to help each other, even if some days it feels like you're on the carpet 21:15:11 <maat> if i could just work without a hound on my heels that would help greatly :) 21:15:39 <trishf42> 8-) we won't hound you - but we'll be helping you *all the time*... 8-) 21:15:43 <maat> tonight is rether pleasant compared to what i have faced :) 21:16:20 <maat> *cough* 21:16:58 <maat> "all the time" i'd do as if it was not written 21:17:21 <maat> 8-) 21:18:57 <maat> So 21:19:01 <tmb> so, how do we get this _really_ going then ? 21:19:13 <maat> for mentoring i'm ok to test the way 21:19:28 <maat> i've given enough alerts about the risks 21:20:06 <maat> so well let's test it 21:20:26 <maat> and see how we can work with that 21:20:48 <maat> though if a moderator has got a nicer profile to suggest 21:21:05 <maat> i'd be in favor of testing it in priority 21:21:21 <maat> then for moderation policies and organization 21:22:04 <trishf42> okay, do you want to do this on the wiki or on a mailing list? Both are public, but marcomm stuff is pretty quiet - tiny team 21:22:05 <maat> we can add a public list with all the council member that want to be in and the forum team 21:22:32 <trishf42> marcomm has so little traffic, you can use that for now and welcome - just need to get started asap 21:22:43 <maat> to discuss about things that need to be shared and publicized 21:23:06 <maat> i think a sysadmin can create a ml in 10 seconds 21:23:19 <trishf42> yes, but... 8-) 21:23:35 <trishf42> we can move stuff to a new list when it's ready. 21:23:49 <maat> provided he's been brought the propper fries as an offer 21:23:49 <trishf42> misc: can we do an action for getting this new list up? 21:23:56 <boklm> why not use the forum "Discussions about forums" which is already created ? 21:24:30 <maat> boklm: this is more a support topic to listen to people suggestions 21:24:37 <trishf42> because I don't read the forums - I need his drafts where I'll look for them! 21:25:18 <maat> our forums are sweeter then mandriva's 21:25:36 <trishf42> maat: doesn't mean we can't make them better still... ? 21:25:38 <maat> but not yet enough to attract ml addict people :) 21:25:56 <maat> but i've not finished my work 21:26:00 <trishf42> I am still looking back to newsgroups... 21:26:14 <maat> and i hope to see many packagers and devs feel there @home in due end 21:26:33 <maat> (but that will need monthes of hard work) 21:27:08 <maat> trishf42: then if i see you on the forums i'll know that i succeeded ;-) 21:27:43 <maat> (i fear that you'll be among the last ^^) 21:27:48 <trishf42> maat: here's a challenge - if I see that you're getting community-minded and mageiaish, I'll be there with bells on! 21:28:17 <maat> ok :) 21:28:20 <trishf42> the thing about a community is, you open your process, and you'll have *help*. People can't help you while the door is closed! 21:29:20 <tmb> maat: can you add your above profile/guideline on the wiki so it gets documented... 21:29:31 <maat> yup 21:30:06 <trishf42> ennael: can we add an action to get a forum-admin ml set up? 21:30:53 <ennael> #chair trishf42 21:30:53 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: ennael misc trishf42 21:31:25 <trishf42> ennael: eh?! 21:31:40 <maat> trishf42: you got the Inigo_Montoya powa :) 21:31:42 <tmb> trishf42: you can now do it yourself :) 21:32:06 <trishf42> #action maat approach sysadmins to set up forum-admin mailing list 21:32:22 <trishf42> (how do I tell if it worked??) 21:32:23 * boklm thinks discussions about forums would be easier to find by forums users on forums 21:32:46 <trishf42> don't we have a forum-to-ml gateway, or has that died? 21:32:59 <ennael> one troll at a time :) 21:33:04 <maat> the project is still to plan 21:33:08 <trishf42> ennael: eeeeuw 21:33:12 <ennael> :)) 21:33:37 <maat> but it needs a not-so-light coding work 21:33:59 * maat needs phpbb hackers not moderators 21:34:05 <trishf42> you don't need to code anything to get these moderating principles and policy in place 21:34:17 <trishf42> and that's what you need between now and next council meeting 8-) 21:34:47 <maat> that's what eveybody's focused on 21:34:53 <trishf42> maat: can I put that down as an action for you? 21:35:00 <maat> that's not what forum needs 21:35:05 <maat> but ok 21:35:09 <trishf42> maat: yes it is 21:35:11 <maat> as it's requested 21:35:13 <ennael> I need ti go to sleep now 21:35:17 <ennael> to 21:35:19 <trishf42> ar, me too 21:35:23 <maat> let's do as if it was urgent 21:35:24 <trishf42> so, maat... 21:35:32 <maat> trishf42: please do 21:35:44 <trishf42> #action maat draft forum moderation principles and policy 21:35:51 <trishf42> hey! that wasn't too hard! 21:36:13 <trishf42> #action trishf42 assist maat with drafting 21:36:27 <trishf42> (sorry, should have put both on the one action, just learning) 21:36:53 <maat> nothing is hard when everybody wants to see things progress :p 21:37:06 <trishf42> 's right. 21:37:15 <ennael> let say that 21:37:24 * trishf42 yawns cavernously 21:38:04 <ennael> 'night all 21:38:20 <trishf42> sleep well! 21:38:46 <trishf42> okay, is that everything (before everyone falls asleep)? 21:39:28 <trishf42> you get 1 minute and then it's over... 21:39:38 <tmb> I think it's all for now, and we review it next meeting that it has not stalled again... 21:39:43 <trishf42> okay! 21:40:32 <trishf42> so, end the meeting here? I your trainee chair am falling out of my shoes... 21:40:52 <tmb> you need to #endmeeting 21:40:55 <trishf42> #endmeeting