18:43:50 <ennael> #startmeeting 18:43:50 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Mon Apr 18 18:43:50 2011 UTC. The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:43:50 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:44:03 <ennael> #chair rda ennael boklm wobo 18:44:03 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: boklm ennael rda wobo 18:44:05 <ennael> ahah 18:44:46 <ennael> ok let start, first topic 18:44:58 <ennael> #topic beta2 (coming next week) 18:45:07 <rda> #link http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=meeting:council_notes_2011_04_18 18:45:29 <ennael> so beta2 is coming on next tuesday 18:45:38 <ennael> I will mail -dev to remind it 18:45:57 <rda> #info beta2 coming next Tuesday (April 25th) 18:46:09 <ennael> it means also 1,5 month before final release 18:46:21 <rda> 40 days even 18:46:25 <ennael> yep 18:46:26 <rda> (should start a counter) 18:46:32 <ennael> I guess so 18:46:42 <ennael> counter and action plan for all teams 18:46:44 <ennael> wdyt ? 18:47:22 <rda> on the communication/market side, we need to build a retro-planning to get everything in sync for june 1 in advance 18:47:35 <ennael> when can you do this? 18:47:40 <rda> and as usual, limit to what can be done 18:47:40 <ennael> for next meeting? 18:47:48 <rda> well, setting the planning is easy :) executing it... 18:47:55 <rda> ennael: yep, for next meeting 18:47:59 <ennael> ok 18:48:12 <ennael> #action setup a counter until 1rst of june 18:48:28 <ennael> #action rda will provide a planning for marcom next meeting 18:48:42 <ennael> boklm: for sysadmin ? 18:49:32 <ennael> woboand obgr_seneca : what about i18n team? 18:49:50 <wobo> good so far.. 18:49:51 <ennael> both on distro and all mkting stuff for web site 18:50:01 <wobo> ok 18:50:14 <ennael> this needs to be synchronized with marcom team 18:50:23 <ennael> rda: can you check this on planning side ? 18:50:31 <rda> yep, that marcom plan will lead to the web one 18:50:35 <ennael> ok 18:50:46 <obgr_seneca> the only remaining problem for i18n atm is a transifex issue 18:50:47 <ennael> #action synchronize mkting plan with webteam and i18n 18:50:51 <wobo> I will stay tuned and i18n will act accordingly 18:50:58 <ennael> ok 18:51:00 <obgr_seneca> I don't know, if misc fixed id in the meantime 18:51:16 <ennael> this is important that i18n can be reactive on coming blog post and web announcement 18:51:30 <wobo> yes, this is no problem 18:51:35 <ennael> usually last beta and RC are quite popular and we can get more visibility 18:51:38 <ennael> ok 18:52:09 <ennael> on packagers side, we are working on last steps 18:52:18 <ennael> meaning version freeze on wednesday 18:52:29 <ennael> last updates are on the way 18:52:45 <wobo> ennael: could you repeat to packagers to notify i18n about changing strings? 18:52:53 <ennael> secteam meeting is planned for tomorrow evening so that everything is ready for final release 18:52:54 <obgr_seneca> We release without tainted codecs? 18:53:17 <ennael> wobo: yep I need to see with sysadmin so that you can get automatic mails 18:53:34 <ennael> we had some some months ago in mdv and that was really convenient 18:53:52 <wobo> ennael: thx, just saved Oliver from sending a mail :) 18:54:04 <ennael> #action check with sysadmin team to get automatic mails when new strings from packagers 18:54:12 <ennael> boklm: a task for you :) 18:54:31 <ennael> (one thing good when people are missing is they do always agree) 18:55:31 <ennael> ok anything else apart from QA ? (I keep this for next topic) 18:55:37 <ennael> oh forums 18:55:48 <wobo> <obgr_seneca> We release without tainted codecs? 18:55:52 <ennael> we need feedbacks there for any issues 18:56:03 <ennael> obgr_seneca: meaning ? 18:56:27 <obgr_seneca> until now, there are almost none of the tainted packages there 18:56:38 <ennael> yep 18:56:55 <ennael> we still need a way to be able to build both packages tainted and not 18:57:13 <obgr_seneca> And iirc bs can't build tainted and non-tainted versions of media players at the same time 18:57:17 <ennael> yesp 18:57:21 <ennael> yep 18:57:32 <ennael> would be nice to have sysadmin guys on that point 18:57:35 <obgr_seneca> I just asked because of version freeze in two days 18:57:39 <ennael> yep 18:57:48 <ennael> we can manage exceptions if needed 18:57:54 <obgr_seneca> ok 18:58:18 <ennael> #action check tainted packages upload, especially including codecs 18:58:37 <ennael> let see if sysadmin wakes up before end of meeting 18:59:10 <ennael> so about forums, it would be nice to have feedbacks especially on coming releases 18:59:30 <ennael> I know wobo is quite often there but would be nice to have other guys if needed 18:59:43 <ennael> do we have moderation team already ? 19:00:55 <damsweb> yes 19:01:02 <wobo> At the moment it seems that maat is doing the global moderation 19:01:44 <ennael> ok then we have to put maat in the loop 19:02:06 <wobo> There's also the question of German forum 19:02:22 <ennael> mmm yes... who should handle this ? 19:02:34 <rda> I've seen a commit today about that 19:03:15 <rda> but not sure what happened so fare 19:03:17 <rda> far 19:03:30 <wobo> same here, no info for some time 19:03:43 <ennael> who is managing it ? 19:04:04 <O-nid> yup 19:04:06 <ahmad78> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=860 19:04:23 <O-nid> at last out of work :-/ 19:04:40 <ennael> ok sysadmin job then 19:04:51 <ennael> #action check with sysadmin about german forum setup 19:05:00 <boklm> hello 19:05:05 <ennael> oh 19:05:09 <O-nid> wobo : there is no official translation for .de so i'll need your help to get translation files from phpbb.de 19:05:14 <ennael> boklm: you have now a biiiiiiiiig todo list :) 19:05:20 <boklm> :) 19:05:26 <boklm> for german forum setup, misc started working on it 19:05:27 <O-nid> wobo: because i dont understand .de at all 19:05:53 <boklm> according to bug #860 19:05:59 <ennael> boklm: can you check this in coming days? 19:06:08 <O-nid> except "ja" and "was ist das" (and even that i'm not sure to be correct) 19:06:09 <wobo> O-nid: there is an official language pack for de. send info about exact version via mail and I will show where to get it 19:06:25 <O-nid> ok thanks 19:06:54 <wobo> we have been using phpbb3 for some time in German 19:07:19 <ennael> looks like we lost boklm again :) 19:07:34 <ennael> this todo list was a joke! (ahem) 19:07:48 <wobo> too subtle 19:08:18 * boklm was reading logs 19:08:19 <O-nid> wobo: phpbb current is 3.0.8 19:08:21 <ennael> oups 19:08:57 <boklm> for german forums, it looks like there is a problem to deploy, and misc is working on it 19:09:01 <wobo> O-nid: ok, will send mail later, I'm in another chat right now 19:10:13 <ennael> ok 19:10:25 <ennael> boklm: we can see together other points about this meeting 19:10:53 <boklm> ennael: yes 19:10:57 <ennael> ok 19:11:03 <wobo> O-nid: https://www.phpbb.de/downloads/sprachpakete.php - the left download (informal) 19:11:05 <ennael> anything else to add on that topic ? 19:11:18 <boklm> beta2 topic ? 19:11:22 <ennael> yep 19:11:31 <ennael> (except QA which comes after) 19:12:03 <rda> :) 19:13:25 <ennael> ok next topic then 19:13:49 <ennael> #topic pre-beta2-release ISO tests needed 19:13:56 <ennael> raaaa 19:14:31 <rda> ennael: yes ? :) 19:14:34 <ennael> wrong command also for first topic... 19:14:43 <ennael> :me can't remember the command 19:14:56 <rda> ennael: no, it's ok, it's #topic, why? 19:15:07 <ennael> topic changes chan topic 19:15:28 <rda> that's the point, yes 19:15:32 <ennael> mmm ok 19:15:36 <ennael> :me is tired :) 19:15:37 <obgr_seneca> and sets topic in log 19:15:42 <rda> anyway; so pre-release QA? :) 19:15:46 <ennael> yep 19:15:56 <ennael> so my favorite subject at the moment 19:16:09 <ennael> close your ears I may shout a bit loud 19:16:30 * wobo goes to the kitchen... 19:16:39 <ennael> we *really* need to setup proper QA before uploading isos on public mirrors 19:16:47 <ennael> this is really not the case at the moment 19:16:55 <ennael> thanks to tmb we had some tests 19:17:03 <ennael> I did some but really not enough 19:17:26 <ennael> this cannot go on that way or we will have all buggy one for final release 19:18:14 <ennael> so we need people who can download isos, test using virtual machine ore real one 19:18:26 <ennael> and make fast report about global status 19:18:33 <ennael> this needs to be organized 19:18:41 <tmb> yep 19:18:50 <ennael> we need people available for it during about 3 days 19:19:07 <ennael> I will start isos on thursday I guess 19:19:15 <rda> do we have a quick list of things to check ? 19:19:22 <ennael> so we need names and only people who can really be implied in 19:19:45 <ennael> rda: mainly QA wiki pages 19:19:48 <ennael> about installer 19:20:05 <ennael> we can complete it with needed applications 19:20:43 <rda> ok 19:20:48 <rda> could you give the link for here? :) 19:20:54 <AL13N> i could, but i have dayjob, so i can only test evenings, is that sufficient? 19:21:00 <ennael> this is really really essential for end of release 19:21:07 <rda> #need proper QA before ISOs upload on public mirrors (pre-release tests) 19:21:08 <ennael> AL13N: that may help also 19:21:15 <rda> #info not enough people for that so far 19:21:17 <ennael> we just need to know who is available and when 19:21:25 <obgr_seneca> I would do, but with my connection speed I need a night to download a 4GB iso 19:21:30 <ennael> also you will have to test using existing howto 19:21:32 <ennael> not more 19:21:34 <AL13N> perhaps we could do like a calendar of availability? 19:21:44 <rda> #need list of people available, and when for these tests 19:21:47 <ennael> obgr_seneca: you can download first one now and use rsync 19:22:05 <rda> #info a specific howto and list of items to check will be available 19:22:09 <ennael> modifications are not that big between 2 test isos 19:22:34 <ennael> I will complete it for these kind of pre release tests 19:22:52 <ennael> also we need to get proper access to rabbit so that these guys can download it 19:22:56 <ennael> boklm: is that ok ? 19:23:01 <boklm> yes, that should be ok 19:23:04 <obgr_seneca> yes, and I have a week of holiday just now, so I have the time 19:23:04 <ennael> ok 19:23:10 <boklm> by puting files in public_html directory 19:23:11 <ahmad78> <ennael> obgr_seneca: you can download first one now and use *rsync* (that should be more advertised... ) 19:23:23 <boklm> and download from http://bcd.mageia.org/ 19:23:27 <ennael> ahmad78: yep I will add it 19:23:27 <wobo> I can do with 3 different machines + VM, one of the 3 days will surely be ok 19:23:31 <ennael> boklm: ok 19:23:32 <boklm> but we can add rsync 19:23:45 <ennael> boklm: rsync is essential 19:23:46 <boklm> I will add rsync 19:23:51 <ennael> yep 19:23:58 <AL13N> rsync with identity login? 19:24:00 <ennael> just quick explanations about release 19:24:04 <boklm> public rsync 19:24:10 <ennael> isos are built for first tests 19:24:14 <rda> boklm: is this url working? I mean, directories are empty ? 19:24:24 <ennael> we wait for en of tests and then following reports we build new isos 19:24:28 <ennael> then again all tests 19:24:35 <ennael> so this should go fast 19:24:44 <ennael> to avoid last minute bad surprises 19:25:08 <boklm> rda: yes, empty on server too 19:25:30 <rda> boklm: oh ok. curious to see one with all the data in it :) 19:25:31 <ennael> #action complete test howto for pre release isos 19:25:41 <AL13N> should we have wiki page with calendar-like thingie to announce when someone is available? 19:25:43 <ennael> #action boklm will setup rsync for test team 19:25:53 <ennael> AL13N: yep I will add this 19:26:31 <ennael> may be a bit easier for beta2 as monday is bank holiday 19:26:54 <ennael> but we have to plan available people for RC and final release 19:27:23 <rda> I won't be here for this release, but I can arrange for the next one (RC) 19:27:31 <ennael> ok 19:27:43 <ennael> anything else to add on this topic? 19:28:30 <tmb> nope 19:28:34 <ennael> I hope I did not kill anybody 19:28:37 <ennael> we need testers :) 19:28:42 <ennael> ok 19:28:52 <ennael> #topic marketing/comm' team (and others) engagement 19:28:58 <ennael> now I can let rda work :) 19:29:07 <rda> hmmm? 19:29:07 <rda> ha 19:29:11 <damsweb> :-) 19:29:24 <rda> well, I think everyone read the last few mails on the council list 19:30:01 <rda> there are two things at stake (maybe 3): team size, people's involvement, and people's representation of these teams' roles 19:30:29 <rda> we all need to really advocate what we all do in Mageia, to anyone, especially outside of the project 19:30:35 <rda> both for the product and the process 19:30:58 <rda> so I suggest we put the focus on improving how people perceive and represent themselves in the project, from the outside 19:32:08 <rda> that means: 19:32:23 <rda> - the "how to contribute" page, although being already great, needs to be grown a bit and designed in a more humane way (that would need some graphic work) - so we can extensively link to it and build a "contribution" portal in the website 19:33:06 <rda> - we should speak more, on the official blog, but on one's blog, or anywhere, about what is in the product and who are the people working on it and why (and there's a draft thinking about doing that in the official blog) 19:33:46 <rda> anyone here? 19:34:01 <AL13N> i have question 19:34:20 <boklm> yes 19:34:21 <AL13N> what is the best way for me as a person to do this? are there guidelines to this? 19:34:55 <AL13N> suppose i want to talk about this in my dayjob working environment 19:35:19 <rda> just do it 19:35:42 <rda> like you would talk about your weekly piano playing/training session 19:37:36 <rda> ok I need someone to review the contribution howto, and to coordinate with i18n for translating it (maybe after having splitted it into distinct page, one per role) - well, someone to manage the contribution howto copy, actually 19:38:17 <AL13N> rda: well, you said: "improving how people perceive and represent themselves in the project, from the outside" what exactly does that mean? 19:40:34 <rda> so far, unless being seriously involved in the project, one does not get a clear idea of who is working on it, and what that means 19:41:01 <rda> and among themselves, apart from their messages on the lists and the forum (and the occasional event they meet at), contributors don't know/recognize each other 19:41:20 <rda> there needs to be something way more visual, humane, to "see" the persons working in here 19:41:32 <rda> (and by accident, show to outsiders that it can be done, and how) 19:42:02 <obgr_seneca> others like OpenSuSE have some kind of personal pages for contributors 19:43:35 <rda> that's one possibility, having this linked to one's account, but there's the technical thing to setup first (I used to look at elgg for that in mdv), and there's the implementation of it (making it an opt-in only) 19:44:24 <wobo> ... and you have to ask each one if he wants to be "published". 19:44:33 <AL13N> how about being voiced on channels? 19:44:39 <wobo> oh yes, you wrote opt-in, ok 19:45:00 <AL13N> or some kind of cloak 19:45:34 <AL13N> perhaps extra icon on the forums? 19:46:32 * wobo has to sign off, sorry. will be off 'til Thursday afternoon, reading mails, though. 19:46:53 <rda> wobo: see you 19:46:55 <wobo> Have fun, all 19:47:04 <ennael> bye wobo 19:47:12 <rda> AL13N: let's do it by small steps. speaking of people on the blog, and around each other is already a great step. 19:47:24 <rda> putting some pictures/interviews of people contributing to the project too. 19:47:44 <AL13N> rda: ok, just giving suggestions, on irc i don't always know who is a contributor and who isn't 19:48:08 <AL13N> rda: i'm often wearing one of my mageia Tshirts at work 19:48:08 <rda> AL13N: how would you do that on irc anyway? 19:48:17 <AL13N> mode +v ? 19:48:19 <AL13N> cloak? 19:49:05 <rda> don't know about that, I'm a noob here :) 19:49:07 <boklm> mode +v doesn't show what people are doing 19:49:20 <AL13N> true 19:49:35 <AL13N> a cloak depending on which team you are from? 19:50:04 <AL13N> mageia/packager or something 19:50:32 <rda> we can think of something more elaborate when we have profile pages available too (like a bot that would redirect to it or so) 19:50:48 <AL13N> myeah ok 19:50:51 <rda> #info read the log! :-) 19:51:11 <rda> ok, we can continue the discussion here or on the list, but later (it's getting late) 19:51:20 <rda> or has anyone something to add? 19:51:22 <AL13N> was this last topic? 19:51:32 <rda> I think so. ennael? 19:51:36 <boklm> there is also open questions topic ? 19:51:37 <ennael> yep looks so 19:51:48 <ennael> unless somebody wants to add something 19:52:10 <boklm> maybe we can talk about who should have @mageia.org email alias ? or later ? 19:52:50 <ennael> #topic @mageia.org email alias 19:52:51 <AL13N> that is also part of visibility 19:52:54 <rda> boklm: so far, I remember we said: board + council members + then step by step peer packagers and some peer members of teams 19:52:54 <ennael> boklm: shoot ! 19:53:00 <rda> AL13N: indeed 19:53:08 * rda should use his alias /o\ 19:53:22 <boklm> yes, for now this is only board + council or founders 19:53:44 <ennael> could we extend it? 19:53:45 <boklm> but I think we should extend this to team members 19:53:49 <rda> founders, board and council (team leaders) is good. 19:53:51 <rda> boklm: yep 19:54:12 <ennael> packers is quite easy for now I would suggest official one 19:54:23 <rda> and update public contact addresses (contact, press) to include some people in the marcomm team 19:54:46 <boklm> yes, for packagers 19:54:54 <boklm> should we provide email to apprentice packagers ? 19:55:03 <ennael> those who have mentors ? 19:55:06 <boklm> yes 19:55:08 <ennael> yep 19:55:14 <rda> I'd say they get an alias when being officially packagers, no? 19:55:22 <rda> (that makes it an even more recognizable thing) 19:55:30 <AL13N> :-( 19:55:30 <obgr_seneca> rda: I'd say so as well 19:55:36 <ennael> well apprentice can be long time 19:55:41 <boklm> alias makes it easier to send them email 19:55:58 <ennael> but we could indeed not give it to them 19:56:10 <rda> ok - so what do we do? :D 19:56:19 <ennael> maybe AL13N would be more on time to provide his homework and become official packager 19:56:25 <ennael> kind of motivation :) 19:56:26 <AL13N> :-( 19:56:28 <rda> tsss 19:56:32 <AL13N> i do some work 19:56:46 <AL13N> and testing and stuff 19:57:20 <AL13N> but i have no opinion on this, either way is fine for me 19:57:44 <AL13N> both have plus and minus sides 19:57:47 <boklm> maybe we can have alias for only official members on @mageia.org, and email alias for everybody on an other domain @users.mageia.org to makes it easier to send automatic emails to someone from his login 19:58:25 <rda> boklm: will make things more complicated, because you'll need to redirect mails to @users.mageia.org to @mageia.org if they fail somehow 19:58:39 <boklm> rda: it redirect to the same 19:58:44 <rda> ah ok 19:58:49 <boklm> to the mail: field in ldap 19:59:13 <ennael> let start with official packagers 19:59:22 <rda> we could decide to provide an alias to apprentices, but then ... I don't know. having a status can be both a good thing and not a good thing. 19:59:36 <ennael> we will see apprentice later 19:59:37 <rda> ennael: yep, let's do it step by step 19:59:47 <rda> we could as well add webteam peer members 19:59:47 <ennael> but still we need a status for other teams 19:59:58 <ennael> obgr_seneca: any idea for i18n ? 19:59:58 <rda> ennael: the peer status would look fine to me 20:00:14 <boklm> we need to add other teams members in ldap 20:00:29 <boklm> we have a group for i18n members 20:01:41 <rda> boklm: we need one for artwork and marcom peers too (and I can name peers as I did for web later) 20:01:46 <rda> (or someone else) 20:01:58 <boklm> rda: ok 20:02:08 <ennael> ok 20:02:23 <ennael> #action all team leaders will provide list to sysadmin for mail aliases 20:02:26 <boklm> so team representatives can open bug reports on bugzilla to ask members to be added to groups 20:02:27 <ennael> #undo 20:02:27 <Inigo_Montoya`> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x838288c> 20:02:38 <ennael> #action all team leaders will provide list to sysadmin for mail aliases before next meeting 20:02:41 <ennael> *evil* 20:02:46 <rda> :) 20:03:02 <ennael> boklm: is that ok ? 20:03:08 <boklm> yes 20:03:17 <ennael> ok fine :) 20:03:35 <ennael> (do I look in a hurry to close that meetging? ) 20:03:36 <boklm> provided in a bug report in Infrastructure -> Account requests 20:04:04 <ennael> #undo 20:04:04 <Inigo_Montoya`> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x838244c> 20:04:15 <obgr_seneca> ennael: sorry was afk shortly 20:04:17 <ennael> #action all team leaders will provide list to sysadmin for mail aliases before next meeting through bug report in Infrastructure -> Account requests 20:04:54 <ennael> ok can we close meeting? any other question? 20:05:12 <tmb> not from me 20:05:23 <boklm> not from me 20:05:36 <ennael> thanks all 20:05:40 * boklm has no other ideas of questions to keep meeting longer 20:05:40 <ennael> #endmeeting