18:35:10 <rda> #startmeeting 18:35:10 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Mon Apr 4 18:35:10 2011 UTC. The chair is rda. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:35:10 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:35:55 <rda> #chair ennael misc damsweb wobo boklm tmb 18:35:55 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: boklm damsweb ennael misc rda tmb wobo 18:36:19 <rda> ok, first things first, do we have new council members since last week? 18:36:22 <wobo> lots of chairs 18:36:29 <ennael> yep 18:36:34 <ennael> was decided for packagers 18:36:44 <rda> #topic new council members 18:36:52 <trishf42> I think I'm new since last week - marcom team rep, from team of (at the moment) 1 18:36:54 <ennael> as we like simple one, I will be packagers representative until may and misc after 18:37:16 <rda> trishf42: yep 18:37:32 <rda> #info trishf42 is marcom teams representative 18:37:44 <rda> #info ennael is packagers representative until may, misc will be afterwise 18:37:57 <rda> I don't remember if boklm was officialized last week? 18:38:00 <trishf42> is this a good place to ask about stuff to get that team a little larger, or better at another time? 18:38:17 <rda> trishf42: it's a good place, we can discuss this at the end (open questions) if you like 18:38:24 <trishf42> rda: ok 18:38:36 <AL13N> small question: is trishf42 marketing representative AND communication representative? 18:38:38 <rda> #info boklm is sysadmin representative 18:38:52 <AL13N> i'm looking at http://www.mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=org:council 18:39:06 <rda> AL13N: so far, yes - as soon as a separate representative can be named for communication team separately, that will be different 18:39:12 <AL13N> ok 18:39:14 <trishf42> AL13N: until we get some more people on those teams, yes 18:39:54 <rda> (unless there's a distinct fate for this team(s) 18:40:14 <wobo> ) 18:40:18 <rda> :) 18:40:31 <damsweb> hello all 18:40:46 <rda> #topic teams review 18:40:48 <rda> #link http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?do=show&id=meeting:council_notes_2011_04_04 18:42:44 <rda> so, has everyone updated this, and has anyone remarks about the past week, or coming week, regarding their own team activity? (yeah, lots of questions) 18:42:59 <trishf42> Nothing from marcom this week, next week lots (hopefully) 18:43:02 <trishf42> hi damsweb 18:43:02 <ennael> beta1 in progress in packagers side 18:43:40 <rda> #info marcom still quiet 18:43:50 <rda> #info packagers progressing on beta1 18:43:52 <damsweb> qateam in progress to, waiting for a ML to dispatch task 18:43:53 <wobo> #info i18n in full swing - usual problem to wake up sleeping beauties 18:44:01 <ennael> :) 18:44:14 <damsweb> #info aqateam in progress: waiting for a ML to dispatch task 18:44:57 <rda> #info and well... see the prep doc already :-p 18:45:04 <rda> ok, anything special here? (next topic is tomorrow's release) 18:45:05 <ennael> about artwork? 18:45:14 * ennael is a bit stressed :) 18:45:18 <rda> well, I have no news from today and have been away since Thursday. I just saw several mails going through with artwork zipped in it. 18:45:18 <rda> my bad, I should have shaken everybody this morning. 18:45:18 <rda> how did the installer/bootsplash integration go? 18:45:18 * ennael can try weapons 18:45:18 <ennael> installer is all ok 18:45:18 <rda> I heard of black screen 18:45:18 <ennael> really clean 18:45:18 <ennael> we still have pb in gfxboot (boot) 18:45:18 <rda> #info artwork, installer is ok, and cleanly integrated, great feedback 18:45:19 <ennael> so I take my pen and used the previous image 18:45:19 <ennael> we will contact gfxboot guys to get more information about image specifications 18:45:24 <rda> #info artwork, pb left in gfxboot, black screen still here because of some hidden spell in it about the image format 18:45:25 <ennael> same thing about plymouth 18:45:34 <rda> #info gfxboot guys to be contacted 18:45:38 <ennael> it's nearly all done 18:45:52 <rda> #info same situation with plymouth (artwork is here, but integration does not work) 18:46:11 <ennael> well not all but part of it is ok 18:46:19 <rda> #undo 18:46:19 <Inigo_Montoya> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x82ddeac> 18:46:32 <rda> #info same situation with plymouth (artwork is here, but some of the integration does not work) 18:46:53 <rda> #info website theme updated 18:47:04 <rda> #info maintdb & wiki still quiet 18:47:13 <rda> #info forums were announced https://forums.mageia.org/ 18:47:22 <rda> ok, other?next ? 18:47:29 <ennael> about qa 18:47:36 <damsweb> gandi part bought for RAM 18:47:40 <ennael> I just wanted to point one thing as we speak about this 18:48:00 <ennael> we cannot think about having more isos until we do not have proper qa team 18:48:12 <ennael> I mean people enough to test isos before upload 18:48:14 <damsweb> see 20h44 18:48:17 <damsweb> <damsweb> #info aqateam in progress: waiting for a ML to dispatch task 18:48:42 <damsweb> we still do not have a proper way to communicate 18:48:44 <ennael> this is not enoug 18:48:44 <ennael> h 18:48:44 <ennael> we need volunteers 18:48:45 <ennael> and hardware to test on it 18:49:02 <ennael> most tests are done on virtual machines for now 18:49:23 <damsweb> yes but we need a ML to know where are volunters, waht HW do we have and you is working on autotest :/ 18:49:40 <ennael> I'm only speaking about isos for now 18:49:47 <ennael> as I'm in the middle of it 18:49:52 <damsweb> :-) 18:50:26 <ennael> maybe a public call for volunteers 18:50:28 <rda> #need focus on qa team volunteers for next round; no additional ISO to be released without that 18:50:29 <ennael> it's really important if we want to make it different 18:51:02 <rda> yep 18:51:13 <damsweb> yes a call for volunteers can be done but without ML, will be hard to manage answers 18:51:17 <wobo> I could help testing ISOs if needed (but how? just installing and reporting?) 18:51:31 <boklm> damsweb: ML will be created tonight 18:51:31 <ennael> wobo: yes 18:51:31 <rda> I suggest there's a particular focus on this this coming week and we see next Monday already? 18:51:44 <ennael> damsweb: call for volunteer is a bit harder than creating ML :) 18:51:57 <AL13N> (i could help testing ISOs like i did before) 18:52:27 <ennael> rda: we need volunteers after iso release but also some during iso release 18:52:28 <ennael> so for next dev releases 18:52:28 <wobo> I can start tonight :) 18:52:29 <ennael> tests before uploading isos 18:52:44 <rda> yes, I know, but before tomorrow afternoon... :-p 18:52:47 <AL13N> if i have access, i could test now 18:52:48 <damsweb> ennael: I know but I'm still wainting the ML to manage all volunters already in QA team and ask them to work/find other volunters :-) 18:53:03 <damsweb> boklm: great, please tell me when available :-) 18:53:10 <ennael> too late for beta1 18:53:21 <ennael> but for the next one :) 18:53:23 <ennael> ok I stop shouting :) 18:53:33 <misc> the current ml would not be able to be used to dispatch task ? 18:53:36 * rda removes ears-shelters 18:53:52 <ennael> :) 18:54:03 <rda> ok so 18:54:08 <rda> #topic beta1 release (tomorrow) 18:54:21 <rda> apart from qa about this, what do we have to do/note for tomorrow? 18:54:27 <damsweb> misc: the ML, as mentionned in my mail, will be to dispatch tasks and manage team 18:54:34 <rda> (release notes, web page update, other?) 18:54:43 <damsweb> (that's why I asked this name......... see my mail) 18:55:02 <ennael> organize tests 18:55:11 <wobo> testing day 18:55:32 <damsweb> what will be the focus of this TD ? 18:57:00 <wobo> s 18:57:00 <ennael> yep 18:57:00 <misc> damsweb: ok, my question as I said is "why not use the current mls existing for that ?" 18:57:00 <rda> ok, when would be this testing day? 18:57:05 <ennael> time will be shorter now between 2 releases 18:57:25 <ennael> so we need to start as soon as possible 18:57:40 <rda> #info beta1 test day to organize 18:57:40 <ennael> we need feedbacks on hardware support 18:57:40 <ennael> installer 18:57:40 <rda> #info beta2 will be released on April 25th is all goes well 18:57:40 <rda> #undo 18:57:40 <Inigo_Montoya> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0xb74263cc> 18:57:41 <rda> #info beta2 will be released on April 25th if all goes well 18:57:41 <ennael> and also support of asian languages 18:58:44 <rda> #info test day focus: hardware support, installer, asian languages support 18:59:27 <rda> ok 18:59:30 <rda> anything else? 18:59:39 <wobo> when? 18:59:40 <rda> #info should have a new download page for beta1 tomorrow 18:59:42 <ennael> oh we will have also live CDs 18:59:44 <damsweb> what will be the deadline for process? :-) 18:59:55 <rda> #info beta1 will provide live CDs 19:00:14 <damsweb> I write them as last time? 19:01:42 <rda> damsweb: that is ? 19:02:43 <damsweb> rda: do I have to write a process for this TD as I did last time? :-) 19:03:45 <ennael> if things are missing 19:03:49 <rda> damsweb: would be good. but keep it small (so that you don't overdesign it) 19:03:50 <rda> ennael: yes? 19:04:26 <damsweb> ok, for.... tomorrow or the day after tomorrow? :-) 19:04:40 <damsweb> or for yesterday? :-p 19:06:24 <ennael> ? 19:09:10 <rda> > "if things are missing" ? 19:09:16 <ennael> regarding items we would like to be tested 19:09:16 <rda> ah 19:09:17 <rda> damsweb: tomorrow? :) 19:09:17 <ennael> yesterday of course 19:09:34 <rda> ok 19:09:35 <rda> #info damsweb will happily write down the process for test day 19:09:35 <rda> when would be this test day? 19:09:36 <rda> coming friday/saturday? 19:09:36 <ennael> at least 3 days before 19:09:36 <ennael> first one was too short 19:09:38 <rda> before what? 19:09:38 <wobo> announcement before test day 19:09:38 <rda> ah yes. 19:09:38 <trishf42> And it wasn't widespread enough <comms team hat on> 19:09:38 <rda> well, if we announce it on release day (tomorrow), that makes 3 days before Friday so technically, it would be ok? 19:09:38 <ennael> yep 19:09:38 <wobo> Now we have the forum as an extra spreading platform 19:09:38 <misc> forum for sending information is not much more work, issues is getting feedback 19:09:38 <trishf42> We also need to cast our net outside the community a bit - we're re-using core people for multiple tasks 19:09:42 <trishf42> something on the blog, encourage people to send it to their communities, link on fb/twitter, all that 19:09:56 <trishf42> and distrowatch and /. 19:10:01 <rda> trishf42: yep 19:10:08 <damsweb> ok for tomorrow... :/ 19:10:44 <rda> damsweb: tomorrow is certainly the announce 19:10:49 <trishf42> damsweb: once you have the procedure written up, do you want me to write the "announce" wrapper so we can put it out there? 19:10:53 <ennael> after beta1 :) 19:10:55 <rda> the process would need to be squared for the test day itself (well, at least the day before) 19:11:33 <rda> ok, so... 19:11:54 <rda> #info test day will be this coming friday & saturday; announced just after beta1 release. 19:11:58 <rda> ok with that? 19:12:03 <ennael> yep 19:12:06 <trishf42> ok 19:12:26 <damsweb> trishf42: thanks for the help, I will keep you in touch :-) 19:12:28 <rda> cool. trishf42 could you prepare a comm plan for that? (where/what to push) 19:12:30 <damsweb> rda: yep 19:12:42 <trishf42> rda: yep 19:12:50 <trishf42> damsweb: thanks, no problem 19:13:16 <rda> trishf42: cool 19:13:28 <rda> ok. anything else for beta1? looks good so far. 19:13:31 <wobo> trishf42: we should work together, utilizing the i18n teams for spreading, I can also help with announcements 19:14:38 <trishf42> wobo: absolutely agree - let me put this comms plan together, we should be able to do this painlessly - we'll have to repeat it n+1 times! 19:14:48 <wobo> yes 19:15:17 <rda> ok, next will be open questions, but just after, there's a little thing 19:15:24 <rda> #topic decision process in council 19:15:30 <rda> please look into the preparation doc 19:15:43 <rda> we were next to lost at the last meeting about this 19:16:16 <rda> a discussion quickly followed on the council list (me & wobo) 19:16:16 <rda> and it looked like settled 19:16:17 <rda> wobo: could you explain? :-p 19:16:17 <wobo> ok 19:16:27 <wobo> if you read the governance model you will see that 19:16:44 <wobo> boardies are not members of the council (except for the chair) 19:17:26 <wobo> so boardies who are also team leaders/reps can vote in the council as team leaders/reps, not as boardies 19:17:36 <misc> so that mean that I need to remove board member from the council list ? 19:18:02 <rda> well, does that prevent from following the list? not sure (if that could be automated, that would be good) 19:18:14 <misc> rda: that prevent from posting on the list 19:18:22 <rda> yep, coming to that :) 19:18:28 <wobo> yes 19:18:32 <misc> because last week, when i asked, people told "council is elected people + board" 19:18:35 <rda> but does that prevent boardies to speak into the council list, not sure either 19:18:45 <misc> so the system was done with such requirement in mind 19:19:19 <rda> yep, but. maybe discussion (it lets council & board have a common discussion place) and voting (council members only) is different 19:19:38 <wobo> that's the point 19:19:45 <rda> just that I expect board members to be adult enough not to interfere/abuse council discussion resources 19:20:04 <wobo> yes 19:20:09 <trishf42> separation of powers, yes? 19:20:09 <damsweb> :-) 19:20:18 <rda> misc: last week, we were all in the clouds I guess 19:20:23 <wobo> no, balance of powers :) 19:20:35 <trishf42> 8-) 19:21:56 <wobo> consequence is that we do not need to appoint extra reps of teams for the council if the leader is on the board 19:23:00 <rda> ah yes. 19:23:55 <rda> but now the point is, do we strictly keep board members out of the council discussion list posting powers? 19:23:55 <wobo> the only exception is Anne as chair and representative of packagers team 19:23:55 <ennael> and misc later 19:23:55 <wobo> yes 19:23:55 <rda> who would be against leaving the possibility to board members to post on the council's list ? 19:23:56 <wobo> leaving it intact, you mean? 19:23:56 <rda> yep 19:24:11 <misc> I would be against because that would mean more work on the administration side 19:24:51 <rda> note, that's not a "speak now or forever hold your peace" moment, he 19:25:00 <boklm> misc: against what ? 19:25:09 <rda> misc: how so? 19:25:27 <wobo> leaving it intact means "preserving the status quo", right? 19:25:32 <misc> boklm: having a council people list, and people who can speak on council list group 19:25:43 <misc> ie 2 groups, twice the work 19:26:00 <boklm> misc: against allowing council + board to post on council's list ? 19:26:03 <wobo> misc: only for voting 19:27:19 <misc> boklm: I am not sure that it can be done easyly 19:27:25 <boklm> or maybe we can allow anybody to post, but ask that they don't do it if they're not council or board ? 19:29:03 <misc> well, provided someone do the work for that, I would not be against, but for now, the system is not really able to cope with that 19:29:21 <AL13N> (almost 1h mark) 19:29:35 <misc> ( but that should be boklm to say this, as he is sysadmin representative :) ) 19:29:45 <misc> so while I think that's good on organisation level and I am not against 19:29:47 <misc> on a technical level, thing may be more complex 19:30:03 <rda> AL13N: :) 19:30:10 <wobo> hmm, how is it different to the current situation? Now council and board are on the council list. 19:31:19 <misc> wobo: board member are in the council group 19:31:44 <AL13N> perhaps to be discussed later? next topic? 19:32:07 <wobo> yes 19:33:13 <rda> yep, and that is problematic for votes 19:33:25 <misc> for sure 19:33:54 <wobo> rda: yes 19:34:04 <boklm> epoll is using groups for votes ? 19:34:18 <misc> boklm: not yet, but that's planned 19:34:35 <wobo> ah! 19:34:35 <rda> where's the whiteboard when you need it 19:34:47 <misc> as I was already fed by doing cut and past for 10 people for last sysadmin vote, I do prefer to not redo next time and plug epoll to ldap 19:34:53 <rda> sounds sensible yes 19:34:56 <wobo> ok 19:34:56 <boklm> do we really need to restrict posting on council ML, or can we hope that people won't do it if we tell them not to do it ? 19:34:57 <misc> so again if we separate council and board, and that's good, the integration may requires some work 19:34:57 <rda> boklm: I hope we can hope so. :) 19:34:59 <rda> misc: we separate. but people can be on both. 19:35:01 <ennael> AL13N: please 19:38:20 <misc> rda: yes, but then do not expect thing to work as smoothly as they are now the time we work on various stuff and decide what to do 19:38:44 <misc> ( ie, the problem is just technical, it can be solved for sure ) 19:39:40 <wobo> so we don't vote until this is solved :) 19:39:41 <rda> misc: yep - but there's no hurry here as long as we do things carefully on the practical side (in case of vote for instance) 19:39:43 <rda> ok. misc boklm can you maybe just see if you have time to manage this and we see next week? 19:39:43 <rda> *poin poin poinwoinwoinwoinwoin* 19:39:43 <boklm> maybe we can have an open mailing list for now 19:39:44 <misc> yup 19:39:44 <rda> #info separation of board & council groups 19:39:44 <rda> #info board members do not vote in council decisions 19:39:44 <rda> #info representatives vote in council decisions 19:39:44 <rda> #info a board member may be a representative, but then votes as a representative in council decisions 19:39:44 <rda> #info council mailing-list to be more open, but with non-council or -board people encouraged not to post there 19:39:44 <rda> ok for that? 19:39:44 <boklm> ok 19:39:55 <misc> sure 19:40:00 <wobo> ok 19:41:25 <rda> ok, next topic... 19:41:27 <damsweb> yes 19:41:34 <wobo> go 19:41:35 <rda> actually, qa processes, was discussed above 19:41:40 <rda> so we're with... 19:41:45 <rda> #topic mageia/businesses 19:42:15 <rda> so. I posted several bits about that, in the past and past week, on the council list as well (https://ml.mageia.org/wwsympa-wrapper.fcgi/arc/council/2011-03/msg00015.html ) 19:42:28 <wobo> it's a heavy topic :( 19:42:31 <rda> now, it all comes down to feedback 19:42:39 <rda> wobo: too late for starting it? 19:42:48 <rda> we can move forward on the list, but no one answered so far 19:43:08 <misc> I think that a easy topic will be too late even if we start with it, so we can as well start now :) 19:43:16 <misc> ( and do small chunk around it ) 19:43:43 <wobo> to be honest, I did not have the time to read it closely 19:43:56 <wobo> misc: yes 19:44:30 <rda> ok, so then I think that would be better to move on on the list first, so that everyone takes the time to read it and answer. 19:45:51 <rda> (and it's good to keep this meeting around 1 hour or so, we almost did it) 19:47:10 <misc> the mail is split in several point, so maybe taking one of them each time would be better ? 19:47:11 <trishf42> ok 19:47:12 <rda> misc: we can. they are just quite linked to each other, but in order. 19:47:12 <rda> ok, I'll push it smaller by the mail then 19:47:12 <rda> thanks for coming. 19:47:12 <wobo> we can start with chapter A and sing along and see how far we get until misc becomes hungry 19:47:12 <trishf42> I had something to raise, but maybe it's better on the list? 19:47:12 <rda> does anyone want to chair the next meeting? (build up the preparation doc, call for the meeting, chairing it) :) 19:47:12 <rda> trishf42: yep 19:47:12 <rda> wobo: I'm hungry already :) 19:47:13 <wobo> see! :) 19:50:16 <misc> in fact, i already eat 19:50:28 <rda> ok, so... good night everyone! :) 19:50:28 <rda> #endmeeting