20:05:44 <misc> #startmeeting 20:05:44 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Tue Nov 2 20:05:44 2010 UTC. The chair is misc. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:05:44 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 20:05:57 <blingme> ennael: yes 20:06:07 <misc> #meetingname Founders meeting 20:06:07 <Inigo_Montoya> The meeting name has been set to 'founders_meeting' 20:06:08 <ennael> great :) 20:06:17 <misc> #chair ennael rda 20:06:17 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: ennael misc rda 20:06:36 <misc> ok, so first point 20:06:39 <MrTom> could we give all our names so to know who's here ? 20:07:05 <misc> MrTom: we could 20:07:10 <MrTom> Thomas Canniot 20:07:14 <misc> Michael Scherer 20:07:34 <tmb> Thomas Backlund 20:07:34 <rda> Romain d'Alverny 20:07:35 <wobo> Wolfgang Bornath 20:07:39 <coling> Colin Guthrie 20:07:44 <president_goom> Olivier Méjean 20:07:44 <ennael> Anne Nicolas 20:07:45 <coincoin> Damien Lallement 20:07:52 <blingme> Buchan Milne 20:07:52 <rtp> Arnaud Patard 20:08:31 <misc> ok so first point :) 20:08:38 <misc> #topic review on build system planning 20:08:44 <misc> boklm and me, i guess 20:08:47 <misc> so boklm :) 20:09:19 <misc> ( or not ) 20:09:31 <misc> so blino worked on setting up buildnode 20:10:02 * maat|alt opens an eye 20:10:06 <misc> he installed iurt, we have setup a dns alias 20:10:07 <boklm> oops, sorry, I was away 20:10:27 <misc> and I think he has updated the iurt package 20:11:05 <coling> cool 20:11:14 <boklm> and misc setup puppet on all nodes 20:11:59 <misc> #info iurt is installed, blino is working on finishing the setup and test 20:13:04 <misc> boklm: nothing to add on that ? 20:13:17 <boklm> maybe something about ldap ? 20:13:30 <misc> yeah 20:13:34 <boklm> misc: I think you setup ldap, but web interface is still missing ? 20:13:38 <misc> yep 20:13:53 <misc> i should have worked on it this weekend, but I was too busy for the moment 20:14:03 <misc> ( and I have some question for blingme ) 20:14:04 <rda> what's needed on it? 20:14:05 <blingme> I was too busy coding 20:14:23 <misc> rda: basically, to set it up 20:14:47 <misc> i guess that's less than 1 day of work 20:14:58 <blingme> misc: are the questions too detailed for the meeting? 20:14:59 <rda> ok 20:15:13 <ennael> we could list the questions here ? 20:15:14 <blingme> or should we handle them later by email or on irc outside the meeting? 20:15:14 <misc> blingme: well, that's more about asking for password :) 20:15:28 <blingme> ah, for that I need to create an account for the application ... 20:15:28 <ennael> this is important enough to be soled here 20:15:30 <misc> and i do not have a list of questions 20:15:52 <blingme> misc: has ldap been migrated from where it was? 20:15:52 <misc> ennael: soled ? 20:15:58 <boklm> solved ? 20:16:11 <misc> blingme: the ldap directory is migrated on valstar yes 20:16:11 <boklm> or sold ? 20:16:24 <misc> blingme: and I also didn't received your ssh keys :) 20:16:28 <ennael> solved :) 20:16:53 <blingme> misc: I usually try and avoid accounts/access not in some ldap :-p 20:17:13 <blingme> misc: you can use what is on mandriva's ldap, or I will mail you now ... 20:17:19 <misc> blingme: ok 20:18:01 <blingme> are there any obstacles to getting CatDap running somewhere (besides dn/password/acls for app)? 20:18:53 <misc> nothing, I was planning storing the password outside of svn, that requires a puppet update that I have done 2 hours ago 20:19:28 <misc> only thing left is to decide how we interface it with apache, but that can be quite quick ( as i assume that everything will work equally ) 20:19:32 <blingme> ah, ok 20:19:44 <blingme> misc: I've use mod_perl and fastcgi I think ... 20:20:26 <blingme> (screen and the built-in server doesn't work that well :-p) 20:21:03 <misc> blingme: well, I will go for mod_perl i guess, as I had issue in the past with fastcgi 20:21:44 <misc> anything to add on this topic ( boklm ) ? 20:21:53 <boklm> nothing for me 20:22:11 <misc> ok, so next topic 20:22:20 <misc> #topic review of mirror setup 20:22:41 <misc> so nanar gave me a paper, telling he could not be there because he went to the swimming pool 20:22:49 <misc> and so he asked me to take his place 20:23:03 <boklm> good excuse :) 20:23:07 <coling> Time for his annual bath then? 20:23:14 <ennael> :)) 20:23:14 <misc> basically, nothing new, everything is in place, ibiblio started to mirror our empty tree 20:23:26 <misc> #info ibiblio mirror our server 20:23:40 <misc> everything still point on ryu, as there is nothing to share and no news 20:24:26 <misc> and so, i thik there is nothing to add, unless there is questions ? 20:24:27 <ennael> is it possible to write a planning for build system / mirrors for 2 coming weeks ? 20:24:35 <ennael> at least an estimation 20:24:49 <misc> writing it, yes, following it wil be more difficult :) 20:24:55 <rda> misc: is there a doc somewhere summarizing the whole thing? 20:25:00 <ennael> give us an idea at least :) 20:25:03 <misc> rda: i fear not 20:25:10 <misc> boklm: you have something ? 20:25:11 <ennael> that would be great 20:25:19 <rda> would be good to sum up something, from emails and current plans 20:25:22 <boklm> misc: no 20:25:43 <misc> for the mirror, the only thing left is to setup the web application afaik ( mga::mirrors ) 20:25:45 <rda> so we can get more feedback on something clear 20:25:58 <rda> misc: what will be the role of the web app ? 20:26:07 <ennael> boklm: can you write it ? 20:26:08 <misc> rda: let people register their mirror, afaik 20:26:23 <ennael> boklm: or at least ask your slav^w^wmisc 20:26:26 <boklm> ennael: summary of things to do ? 20:26:29 <blingme> misc: where will the data go? 20:26:35 <rda> ok and is there something planned for exploiting/publishing the list of valid mirrors? 20:26:42 <misc> rda: afaik, yes 20:26:44 * blingme wonders if mirror maintainers aren't just like contributors ... 20:26:49 <rda> (like mirrorbrains or st else?) 20:26:58 <ennael> boklm: summary and planning 20:27:02 <boklm> ennael: ok 20:27:12 <ennael> boklm: we can hardly read in your brain 20:27:14 <misc> let me hack Nanar's computer to see :p 20:27:18 <ennael> or maybe with a fork :) 20:27:25 <boklm> :) 20:27:53 <ennael> again estimation but gives the big picture for this 20:28:06 <boklm> ok 20:28:27 <misc> #action boklm write a estimate on the planning for the next 2 week 20:30:14 <misc> blingme: so the application give a map of the mirror, a graph of the link, and let people filter by country, protocole 20:30:34 <misc> but nanar would be better to answer question on this 20:30:56 <blingme> where is the VCS for it? 20:32:38 <misc> blingme: no idea :/ 20:33:19 <misc> #action misc ask Nanar for the information regarding his application 20:33:22 <ennael> misc: can you check with Nanar ? 20:33:45 <misc> ennael: yup, once he is back from swimming pool 20:34:22 <misc> what should I check, besides the location of the vcs ? 20:34:42 <ennael> is it already installed ? 20:35:00 <misc> nope 20:35:11 <misc> only on his workstation 20:37:09 <misc> he spoke of it at various time, but I cannot find where, so maybe I dreamed, or maybe I no longer see the difference between irc and irl 20:37:30 <ennael> maybe :) 20:37:34 <ennael> ok things to be checked then 20:39:46 <ennael> is that all ? 20:39:53 <misc> for me, yes 20:40:04 <ennael> ok 20:40:11 <misc> ( next topic is for stormi, but he is not here ? ) 20:40:20 <misc> so I propose we go on logo review ? 20:40:23 <ennael> he will be there in1/2h 20:40:25 <ennael> yep 20:40:37 <misc> #topic planning for logos and design for Mageia 20:41:07 <misc> rda: up to you :) 20:41:14 <rda> well... we announced last week that submission deadline for logo proposals was further delayed to November 9th 20:41:17 * blingme was still going to put some magii onto a camel to enter .... 20:42:09 <rda> the founding board will then decide against requirements and after discussion on the best fit proposal 20:42:23 <rda> that should be reworked and integrated into the first alpha release, in December 20:42:39 <rda> official announcement of the logo would then happen on this alpha release occasion 20:43:08 <coling> Sounds sensible. 20:43:15 <rda> can't say much more to this point, unless you have questions 20:43:26 <ennael> about icons and so ? 20:43:36 <rda> ah yes 20:43:37 <president_goom> colors theme ? 20:43:49 <rda> colors will be derived from logo proposals,or added afterwise 20:43:49 * misc have lots of likely stupid suggestions and questions 20:43:54 <coincoin> :) 20:44:17 <rda> about icons: there will be huge work for the artwork team to redesign icons to replace Mandriva specific ones 20:44:37 <rda> a list has been created for the artwork team and they have been warned about this already. 20:44:43 <rda> but it still needs to be further organizee 20:44:45 * rda organized 20:45:06 <rda> ho, by the way, artwork team asked whether they could have some webdav space 20:45:13 <misc> i was about to ask this 20:45:15 <president_goom> icons will be created ? 20:45:18 <rda> president_goom: yes 20:45:27 <president_goom> care of the licence then ;) 20:45:29 <rda> guidelines to be gathered/written first 20:45:32 <blingme> how long is logo adoption on web sites expected to take? 20:45:34 <rda> president_goom: that is? 20:45:46 <misc> rda: they requirement is webdav, or just "a way to share files" ? 20:45:49 <rda> blingme: official mageia.org website will adopt the logo on release day 20:45:50 <president_goom> free license for created icons 20:45:55 <rda> misc: a way to share files 20:46:00 <rda> president_goom: well, yes 20:46:33 <misc> rda: can we have a contact to discuss requirement ? 20:46:34 <rda> #info mandriva specific icons to be replaced by new ones, to be designed by the artwork team 20:46:52 <misc> ( ie, do they need acl, versionning, something working on various os, etc ) ? 20:47:03 <rda> #action rda to relaunch artwork team about icons/colours guidelines/schemes 20:47:24 <rda> misc: various os is a must; versioning, not at this stage 20:47:34 <rda> misc: acl, no idea. will ask further and return to sysadm team 20:47:52 <rda> #action rda to ask further details to artwork team about sharing space 20:48:02 <misc> rda: also ask the expected size of file and total space 20:48:05 <rda> #info logo submission deadline on Nov 9th 20:48:28 <rda> maybe they will get along with a dropbox account as well, who knows 20:48:29 <misc> if they need passwords, this will requires some kind of ssl 20:48:58 <rda> #info official logo release to happen with the first alpha release 20:49:36 <misc> rda: well, I would have hoped to use a free software solution, but I guess that my requirements are not the one of others peoples :/ 20:49:51 <tmb> apache + ssl + webdav 20:50:18 <rda> misc: that does not prevent people to use what they have at hand, saas stuff included 20:51:08 <misc> anyway, something to add on that topic ? 20:51:13 <rda> not for me 20:51:28 <misc> next one being the review of various events ( ennael, coling ) 20:51:37 <rda> next then 20:51:40 <ennael> I have one not listed 20:51:43 <ennael> about wiki 20:51:45 <ennael> sorry for that 20:51:55 <rda> ok, go for wiki first? 20:52:00 <ennael> yep 20:52:20 <misc> #topic wiki and stuff 20:52:41 <ennael> MrTom: want to start ? 20:52:44 <MrTom> no please go ennael :) 20:52:50 <ennael> arf :) 20:53:01 <ennael> ok MrTom is coming from Fedora community 20:53:11 <ennael> and proposed us to give a hand on some various topics 20:53:15 <ennael> as wiki one 20:53:46 <ennael> so after having a look on mdv wiki he listed all topics inside and proposed a document 20:54:08 <ennael> trying to propose also a better way to organize things as we are starting from blank wiki 20:54:34 <ennael> ryu.zarb.org/~ennael/Mageia.org.pdf 20:54:48 <ennael> other task was to choose a wiki 20:54:59 <ennael> I added some items about this in document 20:55:08 <misc> ( canonical url would be http://www.zarb.org/~ennael/Mageia.org.pdf ) 20:55:12 <ennael> as misc said it's kind of bullshit :) 20:55:20 <misc> i didn't say like this :/ 20:55:38 <ennael> but that said in fact mediawiki seems to be the one to be chosen 20:55:55 <ennael> because of functionnalities, available languages 20:56:09 <ennael> misc: was just a short way to say it :) 20:56:16 <misc> does it support easyly to be installed as a wiki farm ? 20:56:27 <ennael> in fact I spoke with rda today 20:56:33 <ennael> as he was maintaining it in mdv 20:57:01 <ennael> we need to write some scripts to install instances in quite automatic way 20:57:04 <rda> well, somehow 20:57:16 <ennael> I let rda about this :) 20:57:18 <rda> I'm reviewing more recent releases and alternative ways to install it 20:57:22 <misc> so that's mhh, "no, unless we hack" 20:57:34 <rda> we always will have to hack 20:57:42 <rda> I don't see that as an issue 20:58:00 <misc> well, I do 20:58:02 <rda> or we can too stay on a single-language wiki 20:58:11 <rda> that will ease things a lot 20:58:34 <misc> not much 20:58:41 <rda> misc: why not? 20:58:54 <misc> from my discussion with some people who contribute to the wiki, some of them expect to have different and separated wiki 20:59:04 <misc> some people expect to have different language wiki 20:59:20 <rda> so? 20:59:20 <blingme> misc: why should they have different content? 20:59:22 <misc> and so, that's why I asked for requirement of the various people 20:59:31 <blingme> aren't there plugins for localising specific pages? 20:59:36 <rda> ok, but how does that oppose to this? 20:59:46 <misc> rda: i also assume that different team with different need will take care of them 21:00:02 <misc> which usually mean different plugin, different people taking care of this 21:00:29 <rda> so? I don't see your point 21:00:47 <rda> blingme: there can be, depends on the platform you choose 21:00:51 <misc> rda: well, not everybody is on the same wavelength regarding the wiki 21:01:09 <rda> blingme: as for any wiki, you have to balance the platform localization itself, and the content localization 21:01:10 <misc> so either everybody is since I lastly discussed since 2 days 21:01:26 <misc> or we need to be prepared to handle this flexibility 21:01:32 <rda> misc: ok, then, did all these people write down their requirements somewhere? 21:01:50 <misc> rda: maybe because we didn't ask them to do it ? 21:02:12 <misc> ( someone wrote it, but it was on a napkin in a pub that's mhh not qualifiable for requirement ) 21:02:12 <ennael> if we ask everybody for what they want it will be just a hell 21:02:14 <rda> maybe 21:02:36 * MrTom agrees with ennael 21:02:52 <MrTom> give them a tool, they'll make the best of it 21:02:55 <misc> ennael: sure, but not asking at all would be like the old mandriva way 21:02:56 <rda> we can as well start with one platform that is decent/flexible enough for a specific direction (dev/tech docs) and let it open for other needs 21:03:20 <ennael> misc: can't you just share the ideas you already hear ? 21:03:46 <MrTom> misc moreover, the more plugins you add, the less updates to future are possible 21:04:10 <misc> MrTom: yup, that's why we should explain why we will not add them 21:04:35 <MrTom> misc it's just communication then, not asking people what they want 21:04:38 <rda> misc: or why they could have a different platform for a specific need 21:04:53 <misc> I have no problem to say no to anybody who request anything, with various level of insults. but that doesn't mean that's the thing to do to make sure that people are heard 21:05:20 <rda> it's not about saying no, it's about starting on something decent 21:05:41 <ennael> btw we speak about a wiki 21:05:41 <rda> and getting feedback for improving on this base or using others if useful 21:05:51 <ennael> we cannot make coffee with coffee... 21:06:28 <ennael> features list of mediawiki is one of the longest one... 21:06:34 <rda> anyway. misc, could you ask people that you discussed with to provide a list of their requirements? 21:06:39 <coincoin> can we make chocolate with chocolate? :p 21:06:47 <MrTom> and mediawiki is more than just a decent start 21:07:02 <misc> ennael: does it have ldap support ? 21:07:12 <rda> yes 21:07:30 <misc> so people who want to register are redirected to our server ? 21:07:39 <rda> yes 21:07:59 <president_goom> users that contribute to mandriva wiki knows how to use mediawiki, they will not have to relearn syntax 21:08:06 <misc> is it properly packaged ? 21:08:21 <misc> can it be installed several time without ugly hack ? 21:08:32 <Stormi> Hello 21:08:47 <ennael> misc: rda said it was possible 21:08:53 <rda> misc: it could be packaged, but in a specific way for mageia then 21:09:12 <rda> as for the multi-lingual setup, there are pre-config routines to write/execute 21:09:19 <rda> so that won't be a regular mediawiki package 21:09:26 <misc> ennael: well, you did the trick for wordpress once, and I fall for it :) 21:09:31 <ennael> :) 21:09:55 <rda> again, as a side note, not _all_ webapps will be packaged and released as such 21:10:15 <misc> rda: except that for the moment, no web application is 21:10:31 <misc> so again, we need to know who take care of what 21:11:03 <blingme> does that include plugins for the webapps ? 21:11:07 <rda> misc: it's not a matter of black/white responsibilities, but that will need to be shared between sysadm and webdevs 21:11:15 <rda> blingme: that is? 21:11:43 <misc> rda: well, it is a matter of what I am personnaly willing to do, and tarball is not on my whitelist, that's all 21:11:55 <blingme> will e.g. mediawiki plugins be packaged as well? 21:12:00 <misc> there is other sysadmins 21:12:21 <ennael> misc: you are not the only one in team :) 21:12:22 <misc> so I am only speaking for me 21:12:23 <rda> misc: it's not a tarball either :) 21:12:28 <boklm> it would be svn checkout, not tarballs 21:12:59 <rda> or it could be a capistrano-based script (or some equivalent) 21:13:26 <rda> blingme: it can, but again, it depends how we will manage the wiki (and what changes have to be applied for a multi lingual setup) 21:14:07 <misc> ennael: i never said I was, and I do not really intend to change anything, I just warn for less surprise 21:15:38 <ennael> rda: ok can we finalize technical requirement for wiki ? 21:15:38 <rda> ok, then, let's get this list of requirements if possible and dig this further. 21:15:51 <rda> for myself, I will keep on digging this multilingual setup 21:15:53 <rda> just in case 21:15:57 <ennael> ok 21:16:00 <rda> ennael: opening a page for that 21:16:12 <misc> anyway, i need to go, as the meeting started later than I expected :/ and I have nothing to eat 21:16:14 <ennael> about wiki structure is there any comment ? 21:16:31 <misc> ennael: this is *hum* heavily inspired from fedora :) ? 21:16:48 <ennael> #action rda will dig in multilingual setup for wiki 21:16:50 <ennael> misc: ? 21:16:50 <MrTom> misc you sure ? 21:16:57 <rda> http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=wiki_requirements 21:17:06 <misc> MrTom: at least the wording 21:17:24 <misc> but I need to go 21:17:24 <ennael> #info wiki requirementes page created http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=wiki_requirements 21:17:34 <rda> I'm ok about the structure, but I would still favor a flat layout (page titles, that is) 21:17:37 <misc> ennael: can you take care of the end of the meeting for me ? 21:17:44 <ennael> misc: yep 21:18:10 <ennael> rda: ok so we need to complete setup 21:18:31 <ennael> I can add wiki strcuture in dokuwiki 21:18:42 <rda> ennael: wiki structure, that is? 21:18:42 <wobo> rda: I've been opposing this flat layout years ago, I'm still opposing it today :) 21:18:50 <president_goom> rda: yes, that what we had for mandriva wiki 21:18:55 <ennael> rda: doc content 21:19:15 <rda> wobo: the issue is a non-flat layout will make unreadable page titles 21:19:41 <rda> ennael: ok 21:20:06 <coling> Is the order proposed in that wiki pdf the order it will be listed in menus etc? 21:20:14 <MrTom> coling no 21:20:21 <ennael> coling: just a list 21:20:26 <coling> Cool 21:20:33 <MrTom> this has not been defined as such 21:20:35 * coling felt that starting with bugs was a bit negative :D 21:20:36 <rda> coling: it's a list. it does not determines how things are being presented 21:20:56 <ennael> coling: :) 21:20:58 <MrTom> and it's not take it or leave it way of organizing the wiki 21:21:04 <boklm> on the main page, we will have the "Featured bug of the day !" 21:21:09 <rda> hmmm as a side note, one could consider two ways of using the/a wiki: 21:21:19 <rda> 1. having a wiki.mageia.org place or 21:21:20 <ennael> #action add a wiki page about organization (from document) 21:21:41 <rda> 2. having focused places (developer.mageia.org, doc.mageia.org, etc.) using a wiki 21:21:59 <rda> we're going for the former at this time 21:22:08 <rda> (won't prevent to move bits to the latter later) 21:22:10 <coling> I think in broad strokes the list looks good, but I'm not a massive consumer (nor contributor) to wikis so I'm not the most experienced in that area. But on the whole seems logical and sensible. 21:22:13 * boklm likes 2nd one 21:23:05 <ennael> outch 2d one means as many wiki as places ? 21:23:05 <president_goom> coling: the advantage with a wiki is that you can just write something, and ask someone else to help for layout 21:23:07 <coling> I'm not convinced lots of separate wikis on separate sub-domains necessarily really help matters (not intrinsically anyway) 21:23:07 <blingme> 2nd one could be an idea, but aspects you don't specifically cater to may feel rejected ..... 21:23:09 <ennael> and more for translation ? 21:23:41 <rda> not more for translation 21:23:47 <coling> president_goom, oh I know, I do use them at work etc., but just not so much in the wider community (mainly due to my own time constraints) 21:23:52 <rda> that means more focused spaces, so indeed, more platform to deploy. 21:23:59 <rda> look at mozilla how they do that 21:24:45 <dmorgan> rda: or http://wiki.kde.org/ 21:24:48 <rda> https://developer.mozilla.org/ 21:24:57 <dmorgan> rda: this show 3 sections, for user, dev, community 21:25:11 <rda> dmorgan: yes, per target. 21:25:19 <rda> but that could be per focus/activity as well 21:25:25 <MrTom> i have to go, good night everybody! 21:25:38 <dmorgan> rda: yes we can't do differently for the sections 21:25:42 <dmorgan> rda: yes we ca do differently for the sections 21:25:46 <dmorgan> rda: yes we can do differently for the sections 21:25:49 <dmorgan> sorry 21:26:04 <blingme> the other project that may be worth looking at (how they do things) is meego 21:26:10 <coling> Thanks MrTom even if you likely wont see this :D 21:26:29 <tmb> (he can read the logs) 21:26:45 <rda> yep 21:27:00 <rda> thing is, anyway, to carefully build landing pages, especially the main home page 21:27:52 <boklm> it seems mozilla has both developer.mozilla.org and wiki.mozilla.org 21:28:07 <rda> so, let's try to do that with a single multi-lingual wiki setup first and we can see if we can evolve later, if needed 21:28:19 <rda> boklm: yep, but not same purpose 21:28:31 <tmb> well, start with wiki.mageia.org 21:28:33 <rda> boklm: developer is targetted to platforms and web developers 21:28:38 <boklm> wiki.mozilla.org seems to be used for meeting summaries and roadmaps 21:28:46 <rda> wiki.m.o is for the whole project organization 21:29:34 <boklm> ok 21:29:38 <rda> we could need to build a separate developer.m.o place later. it's important because it helps people to see we focus on them as developers on our platform. 21:29:47 <rda> not only as user or contributors. 21:29:47 <boklm> developer.m.o doesn't look like a wiki 21:29:58 <rda> boklm: it is. it was at least. 21:30:00 <dmorgan> boklm: no this doesn't 21:30:07 <dmorgan> seems like to be one 21:30:25 <president_goom> i fear that having various focused places could create unecessary barriers around different groups 21:30:32 <rda> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Storage 21:31:13 <rda> why barriers? on the contrary, it focuses things where needed. 21:31:38 <rda> anyway. we can see this way later. 21:31:44 <president_goom> mediawiki has category, it could be used : category:user category:dev so on 21:31:44 <ennael> ok 21:31:49 <rda> other topic ? ennael ? 21:31:53 <ennael> yep 21:31:54 <rda> president_goom: that's still different 21:32:12 <ennael> #topic introducing mageia-app-db 21:32:24 <ennael> it's Stormi turn now 21:32:32 <Stormi> well 21:33:03 <Stormi> I proposed to build a web application dedicated to packages 21:33:22 <Stormi> dedicated mainly to end-users 21:33:59 <dmorgan> Stormi: with which goal ? 21:34:02 <Stormi> with a special focus on notifications (new update / new soft version) 21:34:30 <Stormi> I tried to explain this there : http://mageiacauldron.tuxfamily.org/MageiaAppDb 21:35:21 <wobo> don't they get notice of updates by an update applet? 21:35:28 <Stormi> yes of course 21:35:29 <dmorgan> Stormi: seems something i saw and loved on other distro like opensuse 21:35:45 <Stormi> here there's a special focus on user / tester / packager interaction 21:35:59 <dmorgan> wobo: seems from what i understood to see the new apps in a web page, with links to the bugreports of the app, etc... 21:35:59 <Stormi> like notifications when a new package needs testing 21:36:16 <Stormi> backports requests (and votes on backport requests), new softs requets 21:36:34 <wobo> yes, that's a good idea 21:36:50 <dmorgan> Stormi: ok nice but we should avoid to ask request for some apps as backports ( like KDE, dbus, ... ) 21:36:53 <blingme> should we consider making information on packages available from within desktop tools 21:36:56 <dmorgan> Stormi: like a "blacklist" 21:37:15 <blingme> e.g., allow "rating" of packages on this app, and show this in rpmdrake ? 21:37:25 <Stormi> dmorgan: we'll see, packagers could indeed flag some packages as non backportable 21:37:26 <ennael> #info proposal for a web application dedicated to packages http://mageiacauldron.tuxfamily.org/MageiaAppDb 21:37:49 <dmorgan> Stormi: but your idea is really good 21:37:51 <Stormi> blingme: this is possible, in fact specs are not totally complete 21:38:08 <president_goom> that's a nice idea 21:38:12 <Stormi> here a roadmap proposal for now : http://github.com/agallou/mageia-app-db/wiki/ROADMAP 21:38:16 <ennael> Stormi: who is going to work on it ? 21:38:29 <ennael> # info roadmap proposal for now : http://github.com/agallou/mageia-app-db/wiki/ROADMAP 21:39:01 <dmorgan> we could ask on -dev for a work team for this, and with Stormi as manager as this is his idea ) 21:39:04 <dmorgan> :) 21:39:08 <Stormi> ennael: me, ttp, several people proposed to test, and I hope more contributors as soon as I have announced the project on the MLs 21:39:32 <rda> Stormi: you can talk about this on the webteam@ mailing-list 21:39:40 <rda> as well, I mean 21:39:47 <Stormi> ttp and me alread started to build a database schema, and tried to see with Nanar how we can gather information on RPMs 21:40:11 <rda> Stormi: but first focus on it the two of you, not being too many to jump in the works 21:40:20 <Stormi> the basic idea would be mageia-app-db would focus on main package information + user interaction, and would ask sophie for more complex requests 21:40:22 <ennael> #info announcement will be done on ML to ask also some contributions 21:42:04 <ennael> rda: can we give access on svn for it ? 21:42:30 <rda> ennael: sure, but I'm not the one in charge here. :) however, I believe they are based on git already? 21:42:49 <dmorgan> rda: http://github.com/agallou/mageia-app-db/ 21:42:49 <Stormi> rda: we can use git or svn either I guess 21:43:05 <rda> Stormi: up to you, it's your project first 21:43:06 <Stormi> we set up a github project in order to start, but the project's home can move 21:43:11 <boklm> we can wait for the svn/git server to be setup I think 21:43:21 <ennael> ok 21:43:36 <ennael> anybody here to give a hand on this project ? 21:43:42 <Stormi> rda: is it possible in some future to have svn + wiki + ticket tracking system ? 21:43:48 <ennael> #info project is hosted on http://github.com/agallou/mageia-app-db/ 21:44:04 <rda> Stormi: something like trac? or does gitorious handle issues? 21:44:07 <dmorgan> ennael: in some years for me ( need to learn php :) ) 21:44:15 <Stormi> rda: maybe, I don't know 21:44:28 <rda> Stormi: we'd have to see if we use mageia bugzilla for that or some separate forge 21:44:30 <Stormi> trac is good, redmine too 21:44:48 <rda> Stormi: as well as Mageia wiki (or a more specific for projects wiki) 21:45:22 * coling will have to go in 15mins 21:45:28 <Stormi> I'd be in favor of using mageia wiki as soon as it is available, and moving the project to a mageia git or svn server 21:45:32 * ennael would like a github or whatever so that we can have a better way to promote all Mageia projects 21:45:49 <rda> define better 21:45:56 <dmorgan> ennael: what the advantage of github ? 21:46:01 <rda> because there's a tradeoff to mix all within a single wiki 21:46:05 <boklm> ennael: you mean gitorious ? 21:46:13 <ennael> arf yes gitorius sorry 21:46:33 <rda> here, that's an example where we could gain from not mixing too many different topics within a single wiki 21:49:03 <blingme> or a forge setup? 21:49:29 <rda> that would be a gitorious instance, then 21:49:37 <ennael> anything like that 21:49:47 <ennael> we had a discussion in mdv about this 21:49:55 <ennael> gitorious and redmine were in short list 21:50:04 <rda> gitorious does repository+wiki, per project 21:50:15 <Stormi> redmine too afaik 21:50:21 <rda> but seems not to have issue tracking 21:50:33 <rda> redmine does git and svn or? 21:50:48 <Stormi> rda: git for sure, and I heard a colleague had it work with svn 21:50:55 <rda> k 21:51:03 <rda> well, that's another topic for a list of requirements 21:51:13 <rda> but having a place to better display separate projecfts within mageia is a must 21:52:05 <ennael> yep 21:52:39 <wobo> Another "must" is that whatever we do, all this must be reachable from the main Mageia start page (as a side note). 21:52:44 <blino> the commit/log interface is not very user friendly on gitorious 21:52:48 <blino> gitweb is better 21:52:49 <rda> wobo: sure 21:53:02 <rda> wobo: well, maybe with one or two levels of access 21:53:11 <rda> we can't list everything on the single start page 21:53:31 <ennael> gitorious is not only about brosing git repository it's a web portal for a project 21:53:36 <wobo> rda: I know :) 21:53:44 <ennael> browsing 21:53:49 <ennael> anyway that's another topic :) 21:54:01 <ennael> anything else on magiea-app-db ? 21:54:34 <Stormi> there will be hosting questions, and I may need security reviews when a first version is ready 21:54:59 <blino> but the browsing part of gitorious seems to be perfectible, for example http://qt.gitorious.org/~jeffwannamaker/qt/jeffwannamakers-qt/commits/4.7 does not work, because the log is too big 21:55:00 <ennael> mmm coling ? rda ? can you help on this ? 21:55:00 <Stormi> not sure yet, but the app may have to have access to a local mirror structure 21:55:18 <coling> Yeah perhaps, depending on my day job work constraints. 21:55:24 <Stormi> (or get everything from sophie, that's also an option) 21:55:25 <ennael> ok 21:55:46 <ennael> #action find people for security reviews when a first version is ready 21:55:54 <rda> ennael: Stormi: sure I can review 21:56:05 <ennael> great 21:56:09 <ennael> #undo 21:56:09 <Inigo_Montoya> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x828d6cc> 21:56:09 <rda> Stormi: be sure to graph (mindmap or other) requirements for your app 21:56:24 <ennael> #action find people for security reviews when a first version is ready (coling, rda) 21:56:44 <Stormi> we'll need also guidelines for application design if we want some coherency with the mageia websites 21:56:59 <rda> Stormi: that's the UX/design thing 21:57:12 <rda> and that can come later - first focus on your app usability 21:57:12 <coling> I presume you mean not so much application design per-se as the views 21:57:34 <Stormi> coling: yes, I mean the apparence 21:57:48 <Stormi> I suck at making things pretty :) 21:57:52 <ennael> #action contact web team and design team for guidelines about design policies 21:58:12 * coling too :D 21:58:22 <Stormi> there are also some parts of the project which will have impacts on processes 21:58:29 <Stormi> (backports, testing, ...) 21:58:48 <Stormi> we'll have to reach agreements on this before they're put in an app 21:59:01 <rda> well... yes, but try to have a flexible system 21:59:07 <Stormi> rda: yes also 21:59:11 <rda> so that processes are neither constrained by your app, and your app by processes 21:59:22 <rda> because your app will likely be a proposal platform for processes evolution 21:59:28 <Stormi> indeed 21:59:28 <rda> and may be updated afterwise as well 22:00:52 <Stormi> for example, we need to differentiate security/bugfix updates from version updates 22:00:59 <Stormi> (ie today updates vs backports) 22:01:17 <rda> Stormi: AFAIK, these are differentiated in update packages 22:01:17 <ennael> ok maybe this can be discussed on ML to complete specifications 22:01:26 <rda> (at least they were in the old mandriva online service) 22:01:34 <Stormi> ok 22:01:53 <ennael> unles there are some questions we can end the meeting 22:01:59 <ennael> (2h already) 22:02:02 <Stormi> :) 22:02:30 <ennael> ok thanks all 22:02:34 <ennael> #endmeeting