17:33:58 <obgr_seneca> #startmeeting 17:33:58 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Thu May 5 17:33:58 2011 UTC. The chair is obgr_seneca. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:33:58 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 17:34:34 <obgr_seneca> So welcome to the last pre freeze meeting 17:35:12 <obgr_seneca> On our agenda are a few shorter topics and a larger one 17:36:02 <obgr_seneca> 1) Translator names in po files 17:36:27 <obgr_seneca> 2) Pre-freeze status 17:36:37 <obgr_seneca> 3) TODO for freeze 17:36:41 <obgr_seneca> 4) other 17:36:50 <obgr_seneca> 5) one thing that just slipped my mind 17:37:02 <obgr_seneca> #topic Translator names in po files 17:37:02 <Remmy> You also wanted to discuss mail aliasses I think 17:37:11 <obgr_seneca> Remmy: Thanks 17:38:03 <obgr_seneca> So, as most of you might know, there is a problem in Tx with the names of translators in po files 17:38:48 <obgr_seneca> We had discussed that earlier and decided, that someone (me) should save the pre Tx files for reinclusion of those names, when it's solved upstream 17:39:20 <obgr_seneca> Now it came up on the -dev ml by Thierry writing an email, when he saw, names were removed 17:39:36 <obgr_seneca> In that mail discussion the following idea came up 17:40:11 <obgr_seneca> Perhaps we could add a TRANSLATORS file to the svn separate from the po files 17:40:19 <obgr_seneca> What do you think? 17:40:54 <Youp3> Why not, but one file per team or one global file ? 17:40:59 <Remmy> I like that idea if no upstream fix is forthcoming. Perhaps we can change our transifex to include an automatic pointer to that file in all .po files. 17:41:16 <yurchor> Upstream thinks that anybody can resolve names through SVN history: http://trac.transifex.org/ticket/675 17:41:21 <obgr_seneca> Thierry's idea was a central file 17:41:36 <obgr_seneca> yurchor: I know the bug report 17:41:58 <dtsiamasiotis> what's the meaning of a central file? 17:42:01 <obgr_seneca> but I have discussed this over at #fedora-l10n 17:42:48 <obgr_seneca> dtsiamasiotis: not having that much files on svn I think 17:43:14 <Remmy> dtsiamasiotis, one TRANSLATORS or AUTHOR file saying: Greece: This person, That person German: This, That, That Dutch: etc. 17:43:32 <dtsiamasiotis> ok but that would be a temporary fix 17:43:41 <Remmy> Instead of having a TRANSLATORS.he TRANSLATORS.de etc. 17:43:43 <obgr_seneca> The fedora guys - among them Glezos from Tx - discussed if removing those names without replacement isn't a GPL problem 17:44:27 <obgr_seneca> dtsiamasiotis: I do hope it's getting fixed upstream and Glezos is surely doing his best 17:45:04 <obgr_seneca> I would prefer one file for all teams a better solution as well 17:45:27 <Remmy> We might be able to even script that 17:45:41 <dtsiamasiotis> anyway I don't really care much about names as long as I could find somewhere an email( ?) of the translator I'm looking for 17:45:42 <obgr_seneca> Remmy: script what? 17:45:58 <Remmy> obgr_seneca, generating such a file for all projects from the .po files 17:46:45 <obgr_seneca> dtsiamasiotis: The problem is: the GPL says, that copyright notices may not be removed, and translator names might be seen as copyright notices 17:46:55 <obgr_seneca> Remmy: I thought of that 17:47:06 <yurchor> Remmy: it is reasonable, but is there any common form in all translations? 17:47:25 <obgr_seneca> And since we do have all files in svn, it should not be a problem 17:47:38 <obgr_seneca> But I would postpone that till after Mga1 17:47:49 <Remmy> yurchor, I think one can take the top lines of the file up to a common line appearing in all files 17:48:04 <obgr_seneca> yurchor: that is the problem Glezos sees iirc 17:48:04 <Remmy> Then do a visual check on the files before committing them, and presto 17:48:21 <yurchor> Remmy: Glezos and bug 675 do not think so. ;) 17:48:35 <dtsiamasiotis> we already have removed names from po files and substitute with new ones.I didn't know GPL would be a problem 17:48:39 <Remmy> I'm willing to give it a go, but I need to finish the translations first 17:49:26 <obgr_seneca> Shell we say, the more scripting affine people among us will look for a way and we will discuss that after Mga1? 17:50:24 <yurchor> obgr_seneca: It may be late. After updates these lines will be already lost. 17:50:30 <Remmy> Sounds fine to me, but that leaves a lot of manual checking (for you?) this time around 17:50:50 <obgr_seneca> yurchor: Yes, but after all, they are in svn and we will move them back 17:52:45 <obgr_seneca> Does anyone have a problem, if those names are only in older revisions of svn till some time after string freeze? 17:53:18 <obgr_seneca> We don't have to wait till after Mga1, but I think translations have a priority before string freeze 17:53:30 <Remmy> Not I, but it would help if perhaps the committers can fix this as much as possible before committing the new versions 17:54:20 <Remmy> What I do myself, open the old .po and the new one from tx, and just copy those few lines at the top over, then commit 17:54:29 <obgr_seneca> Remmy: Would be a possibility 17:55:07 <obgr_seneca> It 'd be difficult for those who already commited and are not all that svn affine... 17:55:20 <Remmy> I'm even willing to assist with that by watching the soft commits list 17:55:26 <obgr_seneca> As I said, I personally don't see a problem if it's only a few weeks 17:55:33 <Remmy> Aye 17:56:06 <obgr_seneca> So let's get a vote? 17:57:03 <Remmy> What happens to any changes between freeze and release? (If that is possible at all) 17:57:45 <obgr_seneca> Remmy: They might be used for updates later ( /me has to check if it's possible ) 17:57:59 <obgr_seneca> Or they will be used for next release 17:58:21 <obgr_seneca> #action obgr_seneca ask, what will happen to i18n changes between freeze and release 17:58:36 <Remmy> I vote for deal with it later, or any earlier should one of us come up with a workable solution in time. 17:59:04 <obgr_seneca> I second Remmy's proposal 17:59:10 <dtsiamasiotis> I agree, the freeze is near and the translation is importand 17:59:28 <obgr_seneca> Other opinions? 17:59:30 <dtsiamasiotis> *important 17:59:36 <Dan-Marian> i think for RO team there is no problem to solve this inside the team 17:59:49 <Youp3> I'm also agree 17:59:57 <yurchor> agreed with any variant 18:01:32 <obgr_seneca> #agreed i18n team will deal with the 'tx removing translator names' issue after freeze/Mga1 release or as soon as one of us comes up with a workable solution 18:01:35 <obgr_seneca> ok? 18:01:41 <Remmy> Yes 18:01:46 <yurchor> ok 18:01:57 <obgr_seneca> ok, next topic? 18:02:05 <Remmy> Quick question while we are on the subject of translator credits 18:02:18 <Remmy> My mail on the FSF copyrights of yesterday, any opinions? 18:02:23 <obgr_seneca> yes? 18:02:37 <obgr_seneca> I must admit, I have not read it 18:02:46 <Remmy> Most of the Dutch files have a copyright notice to the free software foundation in them 18:03:01 <Remmy> I think these were included as boiler plate copyright notices 18:03:12 <Remmy> inserted by whatever translation tool was initially used 18:03:26 <obgr_seneca> Must have been added by some former translators, I think 18:03:26 <Remmy> and that the .po files never were copyrighted FSF 18:03:39 <obgr_seneca> I think so, too 18:03:54 <Remmy> So, I thought I could take them out, but it might be a sensitive subject 18:04:11 <Remmy> I checked a few other languages, they didn't seem to have them... only the Dutch ones 18:04:42 <Remmy> Translator names and Mandriva copyrights I've kept in place 18:04:48 <obgr_seneca> Opposite to US law, the copyright of anything can't be given to someone else in Germany, you can only license it to others 18:04:59 <obgr_seneca> But I don't know about other countries 18:05:22 <obgr_seneca> Remmy: Should I bring this problem to the council's attention? 18:05:30 <obgr_seneca> Perhaps someone has an idea? 18:05:48 <Remmy> Well, perhaps also "deal with it later", but it would be nice to have an agreement on it later on 18:06:01 <Remmy> I can also ask the guy who did the Dutch translations at Mandriva 18:06:09 <Remmy> and see what he knows about these notices 18:06:16 <obgr_seneca> That would be an idea 18:06:25 <Remmy> Lemme do that and revert back on it later. 18:06:50 <obgr_seneca> #action everybody: think about the copyright notices in dutch po files 18:07:04 <obgr_seneca> ok, next topic? 18:07:08 <Remmy> Thanks 18:07:36 <obgr_seneca> #topic (short) pre freeze status report 18:08:18 <obgr_seneca> I wanted to ask all teams if they have some things to discuss 18:09:03 <obgr_seneca> I know, some of you have quite a lot to do, so I won't press you to do anything 18:09:03 <Youp3> no for the french team. 18:10:13 <obgr_seneca> If no one has anything to report just now, I think we can move on 18:10:14 <Remmy> I try to get everything done in time. Biggest inconvenience for me is that it's just me and in case of doubt on semantics I don't have a Mageia box right now to check the actual texts in use on. 18:10:56 <Remmy> Otherwise, no news. 18:11:01 <dtsiamasiotis> I have a question 18:11:02 <obgr_seneca> Remmy: Just ask on the ml, there always should be someone there who can answer the question 18:11:03 <yurchor> Remmy: You can ask. ;) 18:11:12 <obgr_seneca> or ask in IRC 18:11:20 <obgr_seneca> dtsiamasiotis: yes? 18:11:32 <dtsiamasiotis> we changed some translator names in po files.Is that ok? 18:11:53 <dtsiamasiotis> I mean the names from the mandriva import 18:11:54 <obgr_seneca> In the Last translator tag: no 18:12:20 <obgr_seneca> The list of former translators at the head of the files should not be changed 18:12:27 <obgr_seneca> But since Tx does remove them... 18:12:29 <obgr_seneca> No 18:12:36 <obgr_seneca> let's deal with those lists later 18:12:43 <dtsiamasiotis> ok,thanks 18:13:10 <obgr_seneca> ok, anybody else? 18:13:11 <Remmy> People who worked on the files any time in the past should be credited still. Either now, or after the tx fixup later. 18:13:59 <obgr_seneca> Remmy: yes, and they won't get lost, we can always check earlier revisions out from svn 18:14:08 <dtsiamasiotis> ok, It's clear 18:14:25 <Remmy> :) 18:14:35 <obgr_seneca> next topic? 18:14:40 <Youp3> yes 18:14:41 <Remmy> ::nods:: 18:15:10 <obgr_seneca> #topic TODO list for freeze 18:15:37 <obgr_seneca> Most important thing is to commit our work before freeze 18:16:23 <obgr_seneca> I will add some procedures for that to the wiki for those of us who are not as svn affine as others 18:16:44 <obgr_seneca> Since I had an exam today, I did not have the time 18:17:30 <obgr_seneca> Ok? 18:17:37 <Remmy> Yes 18:17:54 <Youp3> ok 18:17:56 <yurchor> Is "Congratulation..." problem from 1122 solved? Nothing left unextracted from modules? 18:18:09 <Youp3> when will the freeze exactly ? 10 May at 23h59 ? 18:18:48 <Remmy> youp3: Would be nice if we have sunday to do some last work on too. 18:18:57 <yurchor> 1112, sorry... 18:19:05 <dtsiamasiotis> sounds so scary, like the apocaypse 18:19:35 <Remmy> dtsiamasiotis, haha 18:20:14 <Youp3> No problem, I try to finish tonight fr last translations 18:20:46 <obgr_seneca> sorry, had to answer the door 18:21:04 <Remmy> ::grumbles:: Inquisitive doors 18:21:29 <obgr_seneca> :D 18:22:29 <obgr_seneca> about #1112, I'll put it on my todo 18:22:45 <obgr_seneca> (me had to read up, what it was about) 18:23:14 <obgr_seneca> #action obgr_seneca make sure #1112 is fixed BEFORE freeze 18:23:39 <obgr_seneca> #action obgr_seneca ask, when exactly freeze will happen 18:24:35 <obgr_seneca> ok? 18:24:45 <yurchor> ok 18:25:13 <Youp3> ok 18:25:24 <Remmy> ko 18:26:09 <dtsiamasiotis> ok 18:26:29 <obgr_seneca> oh and I forgot: 18:26:45 <obgr_seneca> #action obgr_seneca write that wiki page about commit to svn 18:27:23 <Remmy> We need a script to randomly reassign some actions to others too :) 18:27:43 <obgr_seneca> :D 18:28:11 <obgr_seneca> #topic TODO for release 18:28:43 <Youp3> finish translation ? :) 18:28:48 <obgr_seneca> rda and some others are working on the release pages and associated things 18:29:15 <obgr_seneca> We will try to get them to i18n a few days before release 18:29:28 <Remmy> That'd be good 18:30:35 <obgr_seneca> It would be good, if the release pages (and their translations) would be ready at relases day 18:30:58 <Remmy> If there is going to be a release candidate, can we at that time also explicitly ask for proofreading volunteers? I would really appreciate a last chance to get some feedback before my typo's are kept for eternity. 18:32:08 <obgr_seneca> Remmy: Why should your's not be, when mine already are? 18:32:38 <Remmy> Touche 18:32:58 <obgr_seneca> And of course, if you should find any preefreaders, I will try and get corrections into final release 18:33:08 <Remmy> I know we have some Dutch users / testers, even though they are not on i18n 18:33:28 <obgr_seneca> (even if some prominent project member should threaten again to burn me) 18:33:50 <Remmy> haha 18:33:53 <obgr_seneca> s/preef/proof/ what did I type up there? 18:34:10 <Qilaq> hi, sorry I haven't before time to join 18:34:14 <Remmy> You just preved my point 18:34:19 <Remmy> Heya Qilaq :) 18:34:23 <obgr_seneca> Qilaq: hi 18:35:21 <obgr_seneca> ok, next? 18:36:22 <Remmy> yup 18:36:26 <Youp3> next 18:36:43 <obgr_seneca> #topic mail aliases 18:36:48 <obgr_seneca> Now... 18:37:03 <obgr_seneca> WHo shell have @mageia.org aliases? 18:37:11 <obgr_seneca> team coordinators? 18:37:15 <obgr_seneca> all members? 18:37:32 <obgr_seneca> people that pribe me with enough chcocolate and red wine? 18:37:51 <obgr_seneca> (but please not at the same time) 18:37:55 <Qilaq> probably all who have Mageia's account? 18:38:41 <Youp3> all contributors who want an alias ? 18:38:48 <obgr_seneca> Qilaq: Since everybody can join there, we would loose all control 18:38:57 <dtsiamasiotis> team coordinators 18:39:19 <Remmy> I have no real opinion on that. It'd be nice if it would be anyone registered and on one or more ldap groups, but then I realise that having such an alias might make one look like officially representing mageia, which you perhaps do not want. 18:39:39 <Qilaq> wekk, if he/she want to join why can't he/she have an alias? 18:40:36 <obgr_seneca> Qilaq: because having an "@mageia.org" email alias does make you look like a representant of the project 18:41:13 <obgr_seneca> This is why the council decided to give those aliases only to active contributors 18:41:36 <Remmy> Has the council defined 'active' ? 18:41:48 <obgr_seneca> In packaging team, all full packagers have such an alias, padawans have not 18:41:57 <Youp3> so in this case only team coordinators, and the people donate chocolate to Oliver 18:41:58 <Qilaq> hmm, that's the point, yes... so, some criteria after which alias can be assigned - e.g. 10 commits or something? 18:42:34 <obgr_seneca> In web team, 'peers' get one, loose members not 18:42:43 <Qilaq> yeah, criterium may be rank in the hierarchy, too... 18:43:18 <obgr_seneca> (web team peers are (or should be) all who are actively working on one of the projects) 18:43:55 <obgr_seneca> Since all of the i18n people are actively contributing, we could give aliases to all translators 18:43:59 <Remmy> Then for us, perhaps those with commit access, as they already have a certain responsibility towards the team and the project anyways... but whatever we decide, anything is arbitrary. 18:44:03 <obgr_seneca> I just don't know, what is best 18:44:37 <obgr_seneca> I have an idea: 18:45:12 <obgr_seneca> Every one of us discusses this in his/her team and we will find a solution on the ml? 18:45:33 <Youp3> Ok 18:45:41 <dant3> obgr_seneca: I will discuss it with myself :D sorry for being afk, I will read logs later 18:45:53 <obgr_seneca> dant3: it's ok 18:46:13 <Remmy> Perhaps the team leaders get it, and they can propose team members for getting an alias? 18:46:31 <Remmy> 18:46:32 <Remmy> b 18:46:32 <obgr_seneca> #action everybody discuss the mail alias topic with his/her team 18:46:39 <Remmy> That was my cat, sorry 18:46:42 <obgr_seneca> Remmy: That's another idea 18:48:44 <obgr_seneca> ok? 18:48:49 <obgr_seneca> next topic? 18:49:10 <Remmy> Yes 18:49:28 <dant3> yep 18:49:30 <obgr_seneca> #topic other 18:49:33 <dtsiamasiotis> insert coin and press continue 18:49:45 <Remmy> dtsiamasiotis: Free game 18:49:45 <obgr_seneca> #info we now have overall statistics in Tx 18:49:50 <obgr_seneca> https://transifex.mageia.org/projects/p/mageia_i18n/r/mga1/ 18:49:54 <Qilaq> as I was missing at the beginning I just want do add 18:49:58 <Youp3> nice thing 18:49:59 <Qilaq> about these headers: I tried msgmerge but either I didn't have knowledge to do it right or it has no such possibility but former translators were not merged (though even obsolete translation in the end of file were...) 18:50:13 <dant3> ah, now I can see how far I am behind :) 18:50:33 <Remmy> dant3, prolly not as far as me :) 18:50:55 <obgr_seneca> I only excluded catdap and epoll from this because they are not really parts of the distribution 18:51:05 <obgr_seneca> But I can always readd them 18:51:36 <obgr_seneca> Qilaq: we discussed that 18:51:41 <obgr_seneca> See the logs afterwards 18:51:52 <Qilaq> I saw already 18:51:54 <dant3> obgr_seneca: can we have per distibution and overall statistics as well? 18:52:15 <obgr_seneca> per distribution? 18:52:29 <dant3> yes, mga1, then mga2 then time will came 18:52:42 <dant3> per version* 18:52:57 <Qilaq> I just thought maybe we can do it manually with help of the msgmerge but it seems to be no solution 18:53:31 <obgr_seneca> dant3: I think so, this should be possible by just adding another "release" to that project 18:54:20 <dant3> nice 18:54:41 <obgr_seneca> Qilaq: As disscussed, we will search for solutions, but maybe after freeze/Mga1 release 18:55:07 <Remmy> I also have an 'other' topic to bring up. 18:55:10 <Qilaq> mhmh, I just hoped I can have one but alas... :-( 18:55:17 <Remmy> (surprise surprise) 18:55:44 <obgr_seneca> Remmy: ? 18:55:59 <Remmy> You guys have good spam filters, or my messages are not very clear... but my mail from Apr 30th... 18:56:20 <Remmy> draklive-installpot 18:56:32 <Remmy> Seems to contain a lot of Mandriva strings still, in all languages 18:56:44 <Remmy> See for example https://transifex.mageia.org/projects/p/draklive-install/resource/draklive-installpot/l/de/view/j 18:56:51 <Remmy> What do we do with those? 18:57:23 <yurchor> Remmy: Not all of these strings should be changed. 18:57:38 <Remmy> yurchor, they talk about installing Mandriva to your disk etc. 18:57:43 <obgr_seneca> Every string that is about copyright notices must stay 18:58:14 <obgr_seneca> You speak of strings in translation, not in the original languages? 18:58:26 <Remmy> "Mandriva Live" , "Install your Mandriva live system to disk" 18:58:41 <Remmy> obgr_seneca, well, both the English and the translations refer to Mandriva 18:58:46 <dtsiamasiotis> we translated this as Mageia Live 18:59:10 <Dan-Marian> us too 18:59:11 <Remmy> What I'm saying... shouldn't the source text have been changed to read Mageia? 18:59:16 <obgr_seneca> I will have another look and ask the devs... 18:59:27 <Remmy> That's what seems to have been done for all the other .pot files but this one. 19:00:10 <Remmy> Thanks. The German texts read Mandriva too :) 19:00:26 <obgr_seneca> #action obgr_senecalet some of the devs check draklive-install for Mandriva strings 19:00:34 <obgr_seneca> #undo 19:00:34 <Inigo_Montoya> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0xb7552b4c> 19:00:39 <obgr_seneca> #action obgr_seneca let some of the devs check draklive-install for Mandriva strings 19:00:56 <obgr_seneca> ok 19:01:05 <obgr_seneca> I'm sure there was something else... 19:01:12 <obgr_seneca> But it again slipped my mind 19:01:57 <Remmy> Your dep? 19:02:19 <obgr_seneca> Remmy: dep? 19:02:22 <obgr_seneca> deputy? 19:02:25 <Remmy> deputy team leader 19:02:32 <Remmy> or commit messages? 19:02:34 <obgr_seneca> Oh yes... 19:02:38 <Remmy> Just guessing, lol 19:03:00 <obgr_seneca> I asked a bit arround, but did not really find a volunteer 19:03:43 <obgr_seneca> So if anybody should find someone looking nice and like he could be a volunteer... 19:03:53 <Remmy> or she 19:04:11 <obgr_seneca> Yep, of course 19:04:49 <Youp3> with time akien... 19:05:07 <Youp3> But I say nothing O:) 19:05:38 <obgr_seneca> I would like to have him or piratu or Remmy or Mareek, but none of those felt like he could do it 19:06:19 <Youp3> I spoke of this subject yesterday with him. 19:07:01 <obgr_seneca> ok, one more thing 19:07:11 <obgr_seneca> I can't do a meeting next week 19:07:33 <obgr_seneca> I will be on my way to Berlin for Linuxtag 19:08:25 <Youp3> It's not a problem I think 19:08:44 <Youp3> as we will already in freeze 19:08:45 <obgr_seneca> ok 19:08:55 <obgr_seneca> Then let's end the meeting? 19:09:06 <Youp3> Yep 19:09:08 <obgr_seneca> #endmeeting