19:03:00 <papoteur> #startmeeting 19:03:00 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Mon Sep 3 19:03:00 2018 UTC. The chair is papoteur. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:03:00 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:03:14 <papoteur> #chair lebarhon yurchor 19:03:14 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: lebarhon papoteur yurchor 19:03:29 <papoteur> #topic Who's new 19:03:35 <lebarhon> Fine, the bot is back 19:03:40 <papoteur> :) 19:04:01 <stroibe974> I'm new! :) 19:04:04 <papoteur> we have today stroibe974 19:04:23 <papoteur> stroibe974: you can introduce yourself 19:04:27 <lebarhon> Welcome in docteam 19:05:25 <stroibe974> OK. My name's Sébastien, I am French and I live in Reunion Island. I joined the mailing list a few days ago... 19:05:59 <stroibe974> I've been using Mageia since version 1, and I used Mandriva and Mandrake before Mageia was created 19:06:33 <papoteur> Thus a long experience with Linux. 19:06:52 <stroibe974> I'm getting a little familiar with Mageia now and I would like to help the community, especially with translations into French 19:07:14 <yurchor> Isn't it would be fair if we introduce ourselves as well? 19:07:16 <papoteur> You said me you are using Latex, Frescobaldi... 19:07:21 <lebarhon> Is there a linux group on the isle ? 19:07:24 <stroibe974> and I hope I will be able to learn how to create RPM in a not-too-distant future ;) 19:07:49 <papoteur> :) 19:08:03 <papoteur> yurchor: yes you're right 19:08:04 <stroibe974> Yep, I'm a daily user of LaTeX, frescobaldi (lilypond) and MuseScore 19:08:50 <stroibe974> There was a LUG... a long time ago... but it doesn't exist anymore :( 19:09:19 <papoteur> I'm the docteam leader, using Mageia after Mandrake. I'm also writing some tools in Python. But not packager 19:10:17 <yurchor> I'm from Kyiv, Ukraine, scientist (materials science, fracture mechanics). I'm using Mandriva/Mageia for ~14 years. My major contributions are in the translation field. 19:10:37 <papoteur> In docteam, I manage the publications of the Official documentation. 19:11:07 <lebarhon> I'am French from Normandy, former user of Mandrake/Mandriva, doc writer and translator but ignorant about coding 19:12:49 <papoteur> lebarhon wrote some detailed page in the wiki and in the official documentation. 19:13:46 <papoteur> stroibe974: I think that our needs are are more on writing and revising that on translating. 19:14:35 <papoteur> I propose to switch to next topic 19:15:06 <papoteur> #topic publications for 6.1 19:15:42 <stroibe974> papoteur: ok... but I am not very technical and I know nothing about programming... But I can write about software I use (photo management, music scores, LaTeX and so...) 19:16:06 * stroibe974 is ready for the next topic 19:16:22 <papoteur> stroibe974: yes, that would be fine, we lack such matter 19:17:11 <lebarhon> stroibe974: you could also subscribe to the French forum called MLO and give some help 19:17:32 <papoteur> This summer, I have pushed a new release of documentation, and Martin packaged it. 19:17:53 <papoteur> It is now in repositories. 19:17:55 <stroibe974> lebarhon: I have subscribed already ;) I will :) 19:17:59 <yurchor> papoteur: Thanks! That was great. 19:18:59 <papoteur> I hoped to have entries for khelpcenter, but this is not yet ready. 19:19:00 <yurchor> One of our user have already thanked to me for this update. 19:19:18 <papoteur> yurchor: oh, fine 19:19:38 <papoteur> yurchor: for which language? 19:20:26 <yurchor> Ukrainian, for sure. It's a pitty that I have no contacts othewise. 19:21:33 <papoteur> thus, we need to include the help desktop files in translation loop, and probably standard desktop file too. 19:22:23 <yurchor> papoteur: I can do this if they were put somewhere in git. 19:22:25 <papoteur> We have also to push the publications on website, if I remember... 19:23:08 <papoteur> yurchor: for now, they are only on svn 19:23:51 <papoteur> http://svnweb.mageia.org/soft/mageia-doc/trunk/installer/help-desktop/ for example 19:24:13 <yurchor> papoteur: That's what I meant. Is it possible to grab them for some git place to SVN before the release? 19:24:39 <yurchor> *from some git place 19:25:02 <papoteur> Yes, probably 19:25:26 <papoteur> Where should I put them on git? 19:25:27 <stroibe974> Are these help files going to be translated on transifex before we upload them to the wiki? 19:25:44 <yurchor> stroibe974: Sure. 19:25:59 <papoteur> but not to the wiki. To the website 19:26:14 <stroibe974> ok 19:26:34 <yurchor> papoteur: Anywhere you like, for example into "tools"... 19:26:54 <papoteur> yurchor, I will 19:27:17 <papoteur> #action Papoteur put help-desktop files on git 19:27:24 <yurchor> papoteur: Thanks. 19:27:40 <papoteur> yurchor: thanks to you. 19:28:00 <papoteur> yurchor is our guru in interntionalization ;) 19:28:58 <papoteur> Ok for this topic? 19:29:29 <lebarhon> nect one 19:29:34 <lebarhon> *next 19:29:38 <stroibe974> ok for me 19:29:46 <yurchor> +1 19:29:54 <papoteur> #topic wiki 19:30:34 <papoteur> For what I know, German wiki is not yet in good shape. 19:31:05 <papoteur> We should ask again to sysadmins. 19:31:57 <papoteur> There are good progress in translation to French 19:32:33 <papoteur> In particular with the work of cmoifp. 19:33:21 <stroibe974> (what/who is cmoifp?) 19:33:28 <papoteur> However, I think that some pages (English) are olding. 19:34:03 <papoteur> stroibe974: I know only this surname 19:34:20 <lebarhon> not only the English pages 19:35:07 <lebarhon> cmoifp is often on MLO 19:35:33 <papoteur> psyca said:Yea. The bug is still open :( https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20771 19:35:33 <lebarhon> he doesn't belong to docteam 19:35:34 <[mbot> [ 20771 – German and France Wiki looks bad / broken Wiki-Design-Template ] 19:36:06 <stroibe974> ok 19:36:06 <papoteur> psyca can't have voice 19:36:29 <lebarhon> We could put back the German wiki into the English part like the French one 19:36:59 <stroibe974> Some pages are getting old, that's for sure, but other pages also need to be stripped off outdated information 19:37:26 <stroibe974> Look at the French wiki for example : https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Guide_du_d%C3%A9butant-fr 19:38:16 <stroibe974> From this page, dedicated to the new linux/mageia user, you can find a link called "Discover Linux and Mageia" : https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Documentation-fr#D.C3.A9couverte_de_Linux_et_de_Mageia_.28pour_les_nouveaux_venus.29 19:38:30 <stroibe974> And This page contains screenshots from... Mageia 2 ! 19:40:00 <papoteur> lebarhon: It would be a big job, I think 19:40:16 <papoteur> stroibe974: yes you're right 19:40:26 <stroibe974> Sorry, I forgot one step : there another link "For the new linux/mageia user" pointing to https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Presentation_of_Mageia_for_beginners 19:40:41 <stroibe974> where you can find the screenshots from Mageia 2 19:41:37 <papoteur> I have no solution, except to give motivation to users to work on updating the wiki. 19:41:50 <papoteur> Jybz: hi 19:42:08 <papoteur> Jybz: you are in doc meeting 19:42:13 <lebarhon> papoteur: either we do the big job or the German pages are useless 19:42:42 <Jybz> papoteur: hi, yes, I just auto-connect to all channels. Thx to remind me. Hi all ! o/ 19:42:56 <yurchor> Jybz: Hi! 19:43:02 <papoteur> Jybz: you can take part ;) 19:43:07 <stroibe974> papoteur: I think we should encourage to better organize (one page for new users, not 2 or 3 outdated ones), and then translate the version which is up to date 19:43:33 <stroibe974> hello Jybz 19:44:12 <Jybz> Thank you papoteur, I would like, but I have an important examination tomorrow, I just came to say hello :p 19:44:16 <papoteur> yes, some pages are also very similar to our official documentation 19:44:38 <papoteur> Jybz: OK, fine. 19:45:00 <papoteur> they probably should be archived. 19:45:53 <Jybz> Are you talking about doc organisation ? With the documentation, the wiki, and so on, spread everywhere and not maintained ? Do you have a clear process to maintain wiki pages ? (I didn't take a look on the documentation process) 19:46:07 <papoteur> We have a WIKI TODO page, but should be also updated 19:47:05 <papoteur> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Wiki_TODO_page 19:47:18 <lebarhon> Things aren't that simple, we can't prevent people who want to write pages to write them even if these people 19:47:37 <lebarhon> don't come to the meetings 19:48:07 <stroibe974> What about creating a list of tasks (creating screenshots for this and that, creating a page for new users, etc) and advertise it in the forums so "everyone" can help, not just the "coders"? 19:48:16 <papoteur> it is in the nature of wiki to be free 19:48:37 <stroibe974> Yes, you're absolutely right lebarhon 19:49:12 <papoteur> This is the mean of the page I cited 19:49:26 <Jybz> Ops, sorry for disturbing lebarhon. See you bye all 19:49:51 <stroibe974> Maybe the documentation could be organized a little like the RPM packages: anyone can edit the wiki, then the doc-team will make it "official" or not 19:49:58 <papoteur> Futhermore wiki include page for documentation, but alos for the work of diffrent teams 19:50:30 <stroibe974> Maybe we could create a sort of distinction, like the "Pages of Exception" on wikipedia 19:51:08 <lebarhon> May be we could create a category "Official" ? But we already saiid Wiki isn't official 19:51:16 <stroibe974> These would be the "official" wiki pages, and they would conform to certain standards 19:51:17 <papoteur> stroibe974: distinction is already done with "Documentation" category 19:52:08 <lebarhon> Wiki is mostly written by freelance contributions 19:52:09 <papoteur> or with draft status 19:54:03 <lebarhon> May be we should focus on "Official doc" only and let the wiki as a wall of free expression 19:54:44 <stroibe974> I prefer the "Featured content" vision, it gives a more positive look... the draft status is not very positive :) 19:55:16 <lebarhon> I hate the draft template 19:55:33 <stroibe974> lebarhon: that's also a good option, to focus on the official documentation 19:55:36 <papoteur> stroibe974: I don't understand Featured content ... 19:56:10 <stroibe974> papoteur: they are the "Excellent" articles, marqued with a star, on Wikipedia 19:56:53 <lebarhon> who is the judge ? 19:56:57 <stroibe974> High quality articles, if you want 19:57:05 <stroibe974> lebarhon: the doc team? 19:58:00 <lebarhon> A few years ago there was a visits counter in the wiki pages, it is no longer in place, it was a good judge 19:58:30 <stroibe974> the criteria could be quite simple: up-to-date content, good structure, visually attractive with nice screenshots :) 19:58:54 <papoteur> I don't like the idea that wiki is not inour scope. 19:59:53 <papoteur> stroibe974: the problem is not see what is good, but to get something good. 20:00:12 <stroibe974> This could even encourage people to write good content to have the "Featured" tag :) 20:01:05 <lebarhon> that means you will read and reread all the pages every 3 or 6 months, it is a lot of work for a few people 20:01:47 <stroibe974> papoteur: I think the content is good... but too much content on the same topic... and with certain pages that are very old.... is not helping 20:03:39 <lebarhon> Old pages are put in archives 20:03:58 <papoteur> I think the work we can do is to update https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Wiki_TODO_page with indication of the status 20:04:13 <stroibe974> papoteur: good idea! 20:04:19 <papoteur> lebarhon: yes 20:04:32 <stroibe974> lebarhon: aren't they supposed to be updated? :) 20:04:46 <papoteur> thus who want to help know where to go. 20:05:00 <lebarhon> It is often more work to update that to write a new page 20:05:22 <stroibe974> yes, that is quite true lebarhon ! 20:05:47 <lebarhon> moreover, you will find people to write new pages, but a lot less to update 20:06:26 <stroibe974> can we create a sort of tag to identify quickly the pages which need to go to the archives? 20:07:40 <papoteur> stroibe974: this is easy, add category "To archive" 20:08:17 <stroibe974> ok! 20:08:18 <papoteur> then we can review them globally. 20:09:52 <lebarhon> There is already the category "Page to revise", it doesn't prevent these pages to be deprecated 20:09:55 <papoteur> other thing ? 20:10:45 <papoteur> I had the topic "doc for mga7", but as Antony is not here, I propose to postpone it. 20:10:58 <lebarhon> We could use the "talk" tab 20:11:52 <papoteur> lebarhon: also, but it not easy then to recapitulate them 20:13:48 <lebarhon> We could add suggestions here, but again, it is a lot of work, we have aver 1000 pages 20:13:55 <papoteur> with category, we can get a page of said category and all links to pages which have it. 20:14:14 <stroibe974> is this "filtering" going to be wiki-wide? I mean: for the pages in every language? 20:14:51 <lebarhon> In reality we have two languages, English and German 20:14:53 <papoteur> stroibe974: we use only two spaces, en and de 20:15:17 <papoteur> French pages are in English space 20:15:23 <lebarhon> papoteur: the category Page to revise never helped 20:15:34 <stroibe974> I don't speak German at all... 20:16:39 <papoteur> lebarhon: I propose just an interi state before review them and drop/archive them 20:16:41 <lebarhon> How many people are redy to clean the wiki ? 3, may be 4 at most 20:17:54 <lebarhon> well; Page to revise and if not a month mater -> archive 20:18:22 <papoteur> lebarhon: OK 20:19:42 <lebarhon> we can use the ML to discuss about old pages 20:20:54 <papoteur> yes 20:21:46 <papoteur> I propose to stop the meeting 20:22:05 <lebarhon> yes but we didn't decide anything 20:23:44 <papoteur> #action we can review the wiki, and declare "Page to revise" if not in good shape. 20:24:18 <papoteur> #action the archive them after delay or review 20:25:23 <papoteur> is it OK? 20:25:44 <lebarhon> is it about all pages or only the category Documentation ? 20:25:50 <stroibe974> ok for me... maybe we can start with a specific section of the wiki ? 20:26:28 <papoteur> lebarhon: for the moment, only Documentation. 20:27:00 <stroibe974> ok, that's less intimidating :) 20:27:04 <lebarhon> Ok 20:27:45 <lebarhon> we can dicuss more about that on ML 20:27:52 <papoteur> #action for Documentation category 20:28:09 <papoteur> of course. 20:28:53 <papoteur> thanks for taking part to the meeting. 20:28:55 <lebarhon> Meeting next month ? 20:29:30 <papoteur> yes, 1st October. 20:29:44 <lebarhon> Ok 20:29:49 <stroibe974> ok 20:30:36 <papoteur> Other thing? 20:31:03 <lebarhon> not for me 20:31:20 <stroibe974> nope 20:31:25 <papoteur> OK, see you soon. 20:31:30 <papoteur> #endmeeting