20:05:59 <papoteur> #startmeeting 20:05:59 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Mon Jan 15 20:05:59 2018 UTC. The chair is papoteur. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:05:59 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 20:06:19 <papoteur> #chair lebarhon yurchor wikigazer apb 20:06:19 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: apb lebarhon papoteur wikigazer yurchor 20:06:48 <papoteur> I will list topics 20:07:27 <papoteur> - apb credentials for Calenco 20:07:28 <papoteur> - which collaborative tool to use for the manuals improvement. 20:07:30 <papoteur> - decisions about the comments made during the Installer manual fixing [DrakX-odtV3-comments-apb.odt] 20:07:32 <papoteur> - do we extend to the other manuals ? 20:07:33 <papoteur> - decisions about apb proposal about section 23 [DrakXsection23.pdf] 20:08:00 <papoteur> - restructuring manual installer 20:09:02 <papoteur> what I have forgotten? 20:09:22 <lebarhon> nothing 20:10:18 <papoteur> Anthony added Firewal considerations: https://ml.mageia.org/l/arc/doc-discuss/2017-06/msg00036.html 20:10:20 <[mbot> [ doc-discuss - Discussions about Mageia documentation - arc_protect ] 20:11:08 <papoteur> and https://ml.mageia.org/l/arc/doc-discuss/2017-06/msg00056.html 20:11:10 <[mbot> [ doc-discuss - Discussions about Mageia documentation - arc_protect ] 20:11:26 <apb> I know there is a lot already, but ..... 20:11:43 <apb> Various styles used for common elements due to different editors (human and software): 20:11:44 <apb> https://ml.mageia.org/l/arc/doc-discuss/2017-12/msg00028.html 20:11:46 <[mbot> [ doc-discuss - Discussions about Mageia documentation - arc_protect ] 20:11:57 <papoteur> Let's start with apb credentials for Caleno 20:12:27 <papoteur> #topic Anthony/apb credentials for Caleno 20:12:59 <papoteur> Calenco is our platform to store the sources of our manuals. 20:13:36 <papoteur> I think that Anthony demonstrated that he can edit seriously our documentation. 20:14:05 <yurchor> +1 20:14:11 <lebarhon> he already did a lot of work 20:14:29 <papoteur> But he is not yet familiar with docbook format and rules 20:14:54 <lebarhon> Anthony is the only one English native 20:15:28 <lebarhon> he improve our doc a lot 20:15:30 <papoteur> The question si for Anthony, want you have access to Calenco? 20:15:51 <papoteur> s/si/is 20:16:39 <papoteur> If yes, we have also to inform you of how we work. 20:17:14 <papoteur> apb: what is your position? 20:17:40 <apb> Thanks. If you are ok with that - but as you point out, I will have to learn from scratch. 20:18:02 <apb> ...... 20:18:19 <papoteur> apb: I know that you can learn. 20:18:34 <lebarhon> Calenco isn't that difficult 20:18:36 <apb> Ah, that is ok then. 20:18:54 <papoteur> Thus Ok with that. 20:19:10 <apb> Thank you for the trust. 20:19:33 <papoteur> #info Anthony agrees to have access to Calenco. 20:19:55 <papoteur> #info and docteam too. 20:20:32 <papoteur> I will ask to give you the credentials. 20:21:02 <apb> Thanks. 20:21:03 <papoteur> Then we can try mentoring ;) 20:21:14 <lebarhon> our wiki page about Calenco is not up to date as "Full editor" is no more working 20:21:36 <papoteur> Next topic ? 20:22:04 <papoteur> #topic which collaborative tool? 20:22:58 <papoteur> We tried with modification tracking in ODT files. 20:23:01 <lebarhon> because the Calenco one isn't working 20:23:43 <lebarhon> more over odt is beaking the layout 20:23:44 <papoteur> lebarhon: have we had answer from Neodoc/camille ? 20:24:11 <lebarhon> about what ? 20:24:25 <lebarhon> nobody asked for credentials yet 20:24:28 <papoteur> lebarhon: ODT is not fine because this is an export of the source and introduce artefacts. 20:24:51 <lebarhon> yes and what about google docs ? 20:24:56 <papoteur> Ah 20:26:09 <papoteur> google docs will have also similar problems, as we don't work on the source. Advantage is that we work on the same doc. 20:26:41 <lebarhon> there is also the Calenco web editor 20:26:52 <apb> GDocs can be a bit flaky, but in the absence of any alternative .... 20:27:33 <lebarhon> I don't think Calenco web editor save the history 20:28:59 <apb> Yes, at least working on the same doc with Gdocs. 20:30:04 <papoteur> Calenco keep different versions, but I don't know that there is tool to view differences 20:30:11 <papoteur> between versions 20:30:45 <lebarhon> there is also a pad ? 20:31:25 <lebarhon> whatever the tool, the xml tags will be a problem 20:32:17 <papoteur> using diff or similar tools is not of any help because of formatting 20:32:34 <papoteur> cr and tab and so on. 20:33:00 <papoteur> lebarhon: what do you mean ? 20:33:29 <papoteur> lebarhon: with wml tags problem 20:33:39 <lebarhon> the tags prevent easy copy/paste 20:34:19 <lebarhon> you can't do copy/paste from Calenco to Gdocs, and then back to Calenco 20:34:39 <papoteur> yes 20:35:11 <papoteur> pads show only additions, no suppression, too. 20:36:04 <lebarhon> what are other distros using ? 20:36:25 <papoteur> no idea 20:37:23 <lebarhon> neither do I 20:38:24 <apb> I think it might be handy to have something available for use generally as well, not just for this case. 20:38:56 <lebarhon> yes of course 20:40:13 <papoteur> I think we have to work without anything perfect. 20:40:49 <papoteur> As apb will have access he could work directly on sources. 20:41:35 <papoteur> If he is not sure, he ask on ml before doing modifications. 20:41:56 <papoteur> or anyone, of course. 20:42:28 <lebarhon> as long modifications are better re-wording, apb can decide alone 20:43:26 <apb> Ok. anything other than trival. 20:43:38 <lebarhon> the problem is if we want a re-writing from scratch 20:43:42 <apb> *trivial 20:43:58 <apb> lebarhon: yes 20:44:17 <apb> ... that is a problem. 20:47:24 <lebarhon> who can write a script to convert Calenco <----> Gdocs ? 20:47:46 <papoteur> no idea 20:48:16 <lebarhon> then we will do it by hand 20:49:44 <papoteur> To keep formatting/tags, I think we have to keep them in the text we edit. 20:50:18 <papoteur> thus a framapad would be adapted. 20:50:55 <papoteur> With the restriction that the edition is not wysiwyg 20:51:12 <lebarhon> you said pads show only additions :( 20:51:29 <papoteur> yes, I did. 20:51:43 <lebarhon> So , I prefer Gdocs 20:52:06 <papoteur> with keeping html tags? 20:52:48 <lebarhon> yes, even if there are chances they are broken 20:52:56 <lebarhon> (bad English) 20:53:23 <papoteur> s/htm/xml 20:53:47 <lebarhon> I understood :) 20:54:03 <papoteur> yeah 20:54:24 <lebarhon> I suggest we decide when the necessity arises 20:55:08 <apb> I hesitate to suggest it, but as a GDocs alternative, I don't suppose zoho is a candidate at all? I would be ok with GDocs though. 20:55:40 <lebarhon> I don't know zoho 20:55:53 <papoteur> I'm not fan of Google services... 20:56:49 <papoteur> I just saw that framapad has an "dynamic hytory". I don't what it is. 20:57:01 <papoteur> s/hystory 20:57:18 <papoteur> s/history 20:57:19 <papoteur> ;) 20:57:22 <apb> Dynamic sounds good. 20:57:34 <lebarhon> we aren't in a hurry, we can think some more time 20:57:45 <apb> Yes. 20:58:03 <papoteur> apb: do you have a link for zoho? 20:58:40 <apb> I use it because of the free, no ads/snooping email ..... 20:58:42 <papoteur> what is to check is import/export, and history. 20:59:10 <apb> .... comes with free Docs etc. 20:59:20 <apb> ...suite. 20:59:38 <lebarhon> We could have a look on zoho, framapad and Calenco web editor 20:59:54 <lebarhon> and discuss about them at the next meeting 21:00:06 <apb> Free groups up to 25 persons and 5GB. But as I say, signed up becuse of the email. 21:00:06 <papoteur> OK. 21:00:11 <yurchor> What about github itself with text editor? 21:00:42 <yurchor> I know it is not fast but... 21:01:07 <lebarhon> neither are we :) 21:01:07 <apb> Yes, look into the alternatives in the meantime. 21:01:26 <yurchor> And for the record, I do not think we will see GDocs -> docbook converter any time soon... 21:01:38 <apb> Github - I am not experienced. 21:02:11 <lebarhon> yurchor: do you have a useful link ? 21:02:14 <yurchor> apb: it's just a common text editor with highlighting. 21:02:31 <papoteur> yurchor: what I don't want is to see difference that are only formatting different between editors. 21:03:01 <yurchor> https://help.github.com/articles/editing-files-in-your-repository/ 21:03:02 <[mbot> [ Editing files in your repository - User Documentation ] 21:03:56 <lebarhon> thanks yurchor, I will have a look 21:04:45 <yurchor> lebarhon: I can make a test Mageia docs repo for testing. 21:05:09 <apb> papoteur: zoho https://www.zoho.eu/docs/ 21:05:10 <[mbot> [ Online file Storage - Document Management Software | Zoho Docs ] 21:05:17 <papoteur> yes, it can help 21:05:31 <lebarhon> Are Mageia docs already on github ? 21:05:57 <papoteur> lebarhon: no, I don't think so. 21:06:59 <lebarhon> do we write an action ? 21:07:41 <papoteur> OK, we will try diffrent tools in gdocs, github, framapad, ... 21:08:13 <papoteur> #action we will try different tools in gdocs, github, framapad, ... 21:08:30 <lebarhon> and zoho 21:09:02 <papoteur> #action and zoho 21:09:13 <lebarhon> next topic ? 21:09:23 <papoteur> #topic decisions about the comments made during the Installer manual fixing [DrakX-odtV3-comments-apb.odt] 21:09:48 <papoteur> Anthony? 21:12:26 <apb> Sorry, brain is stuck :( 21:12:45 <lebarhon> you fell asleep ? 21:13:43 <papoteur> apb: no problem. 21:14:13 <apb> Not sure how to respond to the question - it happens quite often.... and then I get into stuck mode. 21:14:14 <papoteur> do we review the document. I have opened it 21:14:31 <papoteur> ? 21:14:48 <apb> Yes please, that would help 21:15:34 <papoteur> Live media : If the installation is decided, 21:16:22 <papoteur> I agree. there uncertainity on the stage, installed or not 21:16:45 <apb> Yes 21:17:00 <papoteur> Media: any physical support 21:17:15 <apb> device? 21:17:25 <papoteur> is DVD a device? Not for me 21:17:44 <apb> Ah 21:17:46 <papoteur> USB sitck, yes 21:18:30 <lebarhon> for a DVD player is a device 21:18:33 <apb> Was not thinking in those terms (media). 21:18:36 <papoteur> but adding ewamples is fine 21:18:37 <lebarhon> *for me 21:18:53 <apb> I see now. 21:19:22 <papoteur> OK? 21:20:08 <papoteur> Ok for "clean install 21:20:15 <apb> Yes 21:20:50 <apb> Yes to clean 21:21:27 <lebarhon> in bold was the warning that a live media is unable to upgrade 21:21:55 <papoteur> OK. 21:22:06 <papoteur> I'm OK with during. 21:22:21 <apb> I think during 21:23:45 <apb> What about this bit? 1.4.2. Dump the ISO to a USB stick 21:25:12 <papoteur> Lagacy is to replace with Legacy 21:26:03 <apb> Yes Legacy 21:26:17 <papoteur> apb: 1.4.2 If you already agree, it's too OK for me. 21:26:33 <apb> Ah, sorry. 21:27:23 <apb> The Default and Safe Settings are a bit of a problem. 21:27:41 <papoteur> If 2.1.2 is deleted, there is no more need of sub-sub section 2.1.1 21:27:42 <apb> ..... definitions. 21:29:07 <papoteur> Hmm 21:29:17 <lebarhon> How to define "Safe settings" ? 21:30:11 <papoteur> Ok to say that Default setting keep the ACTUAL settings 21:30:45 <apb> Would they be anything like the ones used in the corresponding openSUSE installer? 21:31:02 <lebarhon> what are they ? 21:31:40 <apb> lebarhon: I will need to have a browse ... 21:32:07 <papoteur> apb: Probably. Our tools comes from suse, for what I know 21:33:42 <apb> Safe Settings boots the system with the DMA mode (for CD/DVD-ROM drives) and power management functions disabled. 21:34:29 <lebarhon> Ok is it the same thing for Mageia ? 21:34:40 <papoteur> no idea 21:34:45 <apb> https://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/leap/startup/html/book.opensuse.startup/cha.inst.html#sec.i.yast2.steps 21:34:46 <[mbot> [ Installation with YaST | Start-Up | openSUSE Leap 42.3 ] 21:35:34 <lebarhon> it is a question for the ml 21:36:27 <papoteur> OK. 21:36:33 <lebarhon> #action Lebarhon ask the ml about safe settings 21:36:58 <papoteur> What do you think about stopping our meeting? 21:37:24 <apb> Ok. Sorry for being slow. 21:37:45 <lebarhon> could we finish the document ? 21:38:01 <papoteur> apb: no, this is a speed rythm for IRC meetings 21:39:12 <papoteur> OK 21:39:22 <lebarhon> we are at section 7 21:39:26 <apb> I am very slow interacting with people. 21:39:50 <apb> Anyway ... 21:40:47 <lebarhon> full links or not ? I prefer full for those who are reading on paper 21:41:15 <apb> Ok. 21:42:11 <lebarhon> section 19.1 User and Superuser Management 21:42:19 <apb> Ahhhh 21:42:27 <apb> The big one for me 21:43:50 <apb> Apart from 19 could just be User Management (I feel). The biggie is Enter a User! 21:44:13 <papoteur> apb: yes 21:44:28 <lebarhon> apb is right 21:44:42 <apb> Is Add Users any good? 21:45:13 <lebarhon> it is written like that in the GUI 21:45:36 <lebarhon> It is written "Enter a user" 21:45:56 <apb> Well, if it comes to it, then I think GUI would need to be changed. 21:46:24 <apb> ...it just sounds really poor. 21:46:29 <lebarhon> we can ask it, but in the meantime, we must keep Enter 21:46:42 <papoteur> I'm fine with the wording as it is in the GUI 21:47:08 <lebarhon> I can ask a change in the ml ? WDYT ? 21:47:28 <papoteur> ANd we can file a request on bugzilla to change it. 21:47:47 <lebarhon> Yes, I will do both 21:47:49 <papoteur> lebarhon: first on bugzilla 21:47:54 <apb> Yes please - I was thinking of resorting to a bug. 21:48:36 <lebarhon> #action Lebarhon ask for rewording "enter a user" in bugzilla 21:48:50 <apb> :) 21:49:08 <papoteur> For the test tool, the same, we can ask to suppress it. 21:49:28 <lebarhon> which test tool ? 21:50:05 <lebarhon> sorry I am too slow 21:50:09 <apb> GFX? 21:50:23 <papoteur> yes 21:50:33 <apb> Yes. 21:51:25 <lebarhon> #action Labarhon ask to suppress the graphoc card test tool in bugzilla 21:52:07 <lebarhon> section 23 is the next topic 21:52:58 <lebarhon> 30 Sound Configuration 21:53:25 <papoteur> I'm OK with the rewording 21:54:06 <apb> Yes, but I made a mistake ... 21:54:14 <lebarhon> it is smarter 21:54:26 <apb> If there is no actual default driver for *your sound card 21:54:48 <lebarhon> for is missing 21:55:07 <apb> Ah, sorry that is it then 21:55:21 <lebarhon> not a big deal 21:55:34 <apb> I edited it here in the meantime and forgot which bit it was. 21:55:41 <apb> Ok. 21:55:54 <lebarhon> 35. Uninstalling Mageia 21:56:16 <lebarhon> is it still possible with UEFI ? 21:56:27 <apb> 35 is not in PDF but is in EPUB bt the way. 21:56:40 <papoteur> apb: why not? 21:56:45 <lebarhon> it should be 21:57:03 <apb> I don't know. 21:57:22 <lebarhon> a question for yurchor 21:57:31 <papoteur> erasing partitions, erasing entry on EFI/ and erasing nvram entry 21:58:04 <lebarhon> if we keep this section, it need a total re-writing 21:58:19 <papoteur> But I don't know the commands 21:58:47 <papoteur> lebarhon: you mean suppress it? 21:58:56 <apb> Just looked again - PDF ends at Congrats (34) 21:59:23 <yurchor> lebarhon: Calenco behaves strangely sometimes. The updates reach our staging server differ with what you see in working dir... 22:01:02 <lebarhon> yurchor: so the problem won't last for ever ? 22:01:29 <yurchor> lebarhon: Sure. I will see what can be done asap. 22:01:39 <lebarhon> papoteur: either we delete 35 or we rewrite it 22:01:41 <papoteur> I have to check Drakx-cover. It fails perhas the last entry. 22:01:47 <lebarhon> yurchor: thanks 22:03:01 <apb> Save remaining points for next meeting? 22:03:07 <papoteur> #info Papoteur checks Drakx-cover for the "uninstall" section 22:03:19 <papoteur> apb: yes. 22:03:27 <lebarhon> what do you think about asking the ml to rewrite 35, if nobody accept, we delete it 22:03:49 <papoteur> lebarhon: OK 22:04:02 <apb> Yes. 22:04:05 <lebarhon> #action Lebarhon ask the ml a volunteer to rewrite section 35 22:04:05 <papoteur> Meeting Next week? 22:04:10 <lebarhon> Ok 22:04:13 <apb> Yes. 22:04:22 <papoteur> OK 22:04:28 <yurchor> Ok. 22:04:32 <papoteur> to meating? 22:04:39 <papoteur> :D 22:04:44 <lebarhon> I was hungry 22:04:44 <apb> :) 22:05:09 <papoteur> OK to close? 22:05:21 <apb> Yes. 22:05:25 <lebarhon> Yes 22:05:31 <papoteur> #endmeeting