19:07:11 <papoteur> #startmeeting 19:07:11 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Thu Aug 24 19:07:11 2017 UTC. The chair is papoteur. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:07:11 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:07:14 <papoteur> Yes 19:08:05 <papoteur> Hello everybody. I recall that the meeting is recorded and will be published on our meeting logs. 19:08:29 <papoteur> #topic who's new? 19:08:58 <apb> Me 19:09:04 <papoteur> I see new nicknames here 19:09:06 <lebarhon> welcome 19:09:17 <papoteur> Welcome Anthony 19:09:29 <apb> Thanks 19:10:00 <papoteur> I suggest that anyone give an small introduction of himself. 19:11:02 <papoteur> I'm coleader with lebarhon of the docteam. In the Mageia project since Mageia 2, I think. 19:12:04 <papoteur> From France, more than 50 old. Two boys at home for the moment. 19:12:15 <yurchor> I'm a translation committer/Transifex administrator. 19:13:00 <yurchor> From Ukraine/Kyiv, scientist, lecturer. 19:13:40 <lebarhon> I'm in Mageia from the begining in 2011. Firstly for French translation, and now in docteam. France. 19:14:53 <papoteur> verophone: apb: your turns? 19:15:11 <papoteur> #chair lebarhon 19:15:11 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: lebarhon papoteur 19:15:16 <verophone> Me aswell. 19:15:39 <verophone> Mageia was one of my first linux distros. 19:16:01 <verophone> version 5 19:17:26 <verophone> I joined for Greek, Albanian translation, proofreading and UX text formatting 19:17:26 <papoteur> verophone: which identity do you use on mailing list ? 19:18:13 <verophone> papoteur: I have just registered to it. 19:18:48 <verophone> papoteur: I dont know how to use it, i guess it routes email you send to users that have subscribed to it? 19:19:06 <papoteur> verophone: yes 19:19:54 <papoteur> are simonnzg and wikigazer / treegazer here? 19:21:06 <papoteur> Ok, nobody else? 19:21:27 <papoteur> we have topics: 19:21:29 <papoteur> Mageia 6 post-mortem 19:21:48 <papoteur> Wiki state 19:21:51 <papoteur> Troubleshooting page 19:22:04 <papoteur> which topics to work on for next months 19:22:26 <papoteur> #topic Mageia 6 post-mortem 19:23:28 <papoteur> It is an habit to say what was Ok and not during the Mageia 6 development for each team. 19:23:43 <lebarhon> not much problems with Mageia 6 19:24:06 <papoteur> Council didn't ask for it for now, but I anticipate 19:24:37 <treegazer> here 19:24:40 <lebarhon> I think a release in july isn't a good idea 19:24:57 <yurchor> For me, it would be good the next time if we sync docs/translations at more regular basis. Everything else looked good. 19:25:01 <papoteur> lebarhon: I agree 19:25:26 <verophone> papoteur: I agree, but there was too much pressure. 19:26:29 <papoteur> #info Post-mortem: it would be good the next time if we sync docs/translations at more regular basis. Everything else looked good. 19:26:32 <yurchor> +1 but I like the release anyway. ;) 19:27:51 <lebarhon> A release with no wiki is also a bad thing, we can't relly help in the forum 19:28:01 <lebarhon> *really 19:28:33 <papoteur> Our official documentation doesn't evolve in large bit. It is stable, as our tools. 19:29:27 <papoteur> #info A release with no wiki is also a bad thing, we can't relly help in the forum 19:29:38 <lebarhon> fortunately there was not much new features on the Mageia side 19:30:02 <apb> Post-mortem seems a strange term to use. 19:30:26 <papoteur> I think we lack communication about the new artwork in MCC 19:30:52 <papoteur> apb: :) 19:30:55 <yurchor> apb: We are talking about the release process. It's over. So for us it is actually dead. ;) 19:31:09 <papoteur> yes, but I didn't chose it 19:31:13 <apb> Hmmm .... ok. 19:31:58 <papoteur> yurchor: which a false asumption. We still have bugs to deal with. 19:32:15 <papoteur> *is 19:33:31 <yurchor> papoteur: Can we improve the docs in such way that they will be released we Mageia 6.x? Do we even plan something alike of Mageia 6.x? 19:33:55 <yurchor> *with 19:34:33 <papoteur> yurchor: I didn't ear of such a plan. 19:35:16 <yurchor> Then (apart from wiki and forum) Mageia 6 is dead for new docs. :( 19:35:25 <papoteur> yurchor: do you mean for translated doc or for the content ? 19:35:42 <yurchor> papoteur: Content for sure. 19:36:30 <verophone> I think you mean the docs don't need anything new as far as content is concerned? yurchor 19:36:32 <yurchor> We have updated Basque, Japanese and Russian docs translations. 19:37:04 <papoteur> we can plan one according to developper's plan. We don't know yet what will be the next cycle. 19:37:46 <verophone> There are some sections talking about deprecated tools 19:37:56 <yurchor> verophone: I think that we should concentrate on the good docs for the new release. We do not have enough resources to maintain two branches at once. 19:38:55 <verophone> yurchor: Do you mean Wiki docs or manuals? 19:39:00 <papoteur> verophone: which tool is deprecated? 19:39:43 <verophone> papoteur: Draksnapshot is one of them. 19:39:56 <yurchor> verophone: Manuals. Wiki is much more flexible in this sense. 19:40:17 <verophone> papoteur: I think someone had filed one bug report on bugzilla concerning draksnapshot. 19:40:38 <verophone> It doesnt work on 5.1 and 6 19:41:44 <verophone> yurchor: I agree, it is easier to read and comprehend as you can nagivate hyperlink to hyperlink. 19:42:07 <verophone> yurchor: In downloaded manuals isn't as fleasible. 19:42:31 <papoteur> verophone: yes. At first, I think that devs have to withdraw them, then we will follow. 19:43:11 <simonnzg> .me arrives late. 19:43:18 * simonnzg arrives late. 19:43:34 <papoteur> Hi simonnzg. You're welcome 19:43:44 <simonnzg> Sorry. I had to eat. 19:44:40 <papoteur> yurchor: I keep your idea to propse a release if a 6.1 release is proposed. 19:44:49 <papoteur> *propose 19:45:06 <papoteur> simonnzg: it's a good illness ;) 19:46:00 <lebarhon> if a 6.1 is released, it will be in a hurry 19:46:39 <verophone> We hope it doesn't happen. 19:47:08 <verophone> meaning everything goes well and we eventually adhere to the release scheldue 19:47:25 <simonnzg> We should be on 8.0 by now.. ;-) 19:47:31 <verophone> and we shall have 7 19:48:15 <papoteur> We can perhaps add or update translations, such as Japanese 19:48:17 <lebarhon> We should be on 9.0 cycle is 9 months 19:48:42 <verophone> papoteur: I could perhaps add Albanian translation 19:49:31 <verophone> looks like the fedora project has been succesful with the IT youth in albania 19:49:31 <yurchor> verophone: So register on Tx, apply for the membership and go... ;) 19:49:35 <simonnzg> I have not thought about translations, but are language packs updateable? The only bit that isn't is the install documentation, surely? 19:49:50 <verophone> Tx? 19:50:08 <papoteur> verophone: You'll be welcome. We have the translation on transifax host. 19:50:22 <yurchor> verophone: https://www.transifex.com/MageiaLinux/mageia/dashboard/ 19:50:58 <lebarhon> verophone: do you know a community using Mageia ? 19:51:30 <verophone> papoteur: Nope. 19:51:30 <lebarhon> Tx stands fir Transifex 19:53:24 <verophone> Ugh i answered to papoteur instead of you lebarhon 19:53:38 <papoteur> simonnzg: a publication in one language can be easyly updated on mageia.org/doc I think. 19:54:26 <verophone> Does tx allow me to translate mroe than one language? 19:54:31 <simonnzg> OK, I wondered if we published language packs as RPM, that's all. 19:54:35 <verophone> looks like greek is 98% 19:54:39 <yurchor> verophone: Sure. 19:54:55 <papoteur> simonnzg: for the packaged documentation, I don't know. We have only one spec file which generate multiple packages. 19:55:18 <verophone> Ok i sent a request for 2 languages 19:55:27 <verophone> to join the team 19:55:46 <papoteur> verophone: :) 19:56:21 <yurchor> verophone: Accepted. Welcome aboard into the Mageia Translation Team. :) 19:56:43 <papoteur> I will ask to packager what is possible to do. 19:57:56 <papoteur> Next topic ? 19:58:00 <simonnzg> papoteur: It ouwld be nice to be able to update documentation on-the-fly. :) Welcome to the madhouse, verophone: 19:58:54 <lebarhon> verophone: Tx is for translatiing the text, but there is another procedure for the screenshots 19:59:26 <verophone> lebarhon: VMs i guess? 19:59:47 <filip> hi there. as always I can do the mageia.org/doc part. 19:59:52 <lebarhon> Don't know VM, it is Calenco 20:00:06 <yurchor> filip: Hi! 20:00:18 <filip> hi yurchor. nice to read you live ;) 20:01:08 <yurchor> lebarhon: He means that it is handful to make the screenshots in virtual machine. 20:01:34 <lebarhon> OK, it is up to him to decide 20:01:36 <papoteur> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Missing_MCC_and_installer_screenshots#Doing_screen-shots 20:02:28 <papoteur> #topic Wiki state 20:03:13 <simonnzg> Broken? 20:03:13 <papoteur> Wiki is not in good shape, it can't display images, or so few 20:03:34 <lebarhon> who is in charge of the problem ? 20:04:09 <simonnzg> I don't know. wikigazer and I suspect that it is file permissions that are the problem. 20:04:13 <verophone> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21416 20:04:15 <[mbot> [ 21416 – No pictures are displayed on the wiki since the migration ] 20:04:27 <papoteur> wikigazer explored some replication, but this didn't help enough our sysadministrators 20:05:08 <verophone> that's strange and it happened at the wrong time 20:05:11 <papoteur> lebarhon: tmb and neoclust, for what I know. 20:05:15 <simonnzg> chmod -R 775 /var/www/html/wiki/images (or similar) :P 20:05:50 <verophone> do they use selinux> 20:05:51 <verophone> ? 20:06:00 <simonnzg> Some images DO make it onto the wiki. It happens, then it stops happening. You can see the timeline if you look at the special page for images 20:06:56 <simonnzg> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Special:ListFiles 20:06:56 <papoteur> the installed system interferes with a tool which supervise it (don't remeber the name) 20:07:05 <simonnzg> Puppet, maybe? 20:07:41 <papoteur> simonnzg: yes 20:07:48 <yurchor> Recently, we had some problems with images and access on KDE's wiki: https://userbase.kde.org/index.php?title=Thread:User_talk:Bcooksley/can_not_upload_a_new_version_of_an_image&rcid=453683 20:09:23 <simonnzg> http://gitweb.mageia.org/infrastructure/puppet/tree/modules/mediawiki/templates/LocalSettings.php 20:09:36 <simonnzg> Line 78-80 20:10:22 <lebarhon> We should create a new wiki from crash, it would take less long to restore it. 20:10:36 <papoteur> I don't think we can solve the problem here. We have to burry neoclust with our suggestion and help to understand the problem. 20:11:12 <simonnzg> we have enough people available who know how to make a wiki work safely. We can also write the documentation as we do it. :) 20:11:58 <simonnzg> My guess is that Puppet is getting in the way and blocking uploads, or re-writing permissions to the uploads folder. 20:13:16 <lebarhon> if we have enough people, why no one do the job ? 20:13:29 <simonnzg> lebarhon: The wiki does contain a lot of pages that are probably not necessary. 20:13:32 <papoteur> simonnzg: do you need permissions to do modifications on the site? 20:14:02 <simonnzg> As far as working on the wiki, I suppose so. I am just a user, though. 20:14:37 <simonnzg> I don't have permission to alter anythign on gitweb.mageia.org as far as I know. 20:15:09 <papoteur> simonnzg: this is why I ask the question 20:15:56 <simonnzg> Only neoclust has been making changes there since beginning of August. 20:16:34 <simonnzg> It is possible to do Git things like clone the repo, but can I make changes and put in a pull request? Maybe not. 20:16:35 <filip> you can always propose patch regardless of access 20:16:52 <papoteur> I have written on sysadmin list to expose our wiki problem with other things. I had an answer, but nothing is new. 20:17:36 <simonnzg> I think the problem is raw file and folder permissions on the wiki uploads directory. It works, then it doesn't, then it works. That is either a script or various people trying fixes. Or SE Linux being SE Linux. 20:17:45 <papoteur> simonnzg: we don't ahve pull requests management. 20:18:17 <papoteur> *have 20:18:41 <filip> papoteur: not as github but anyone can post patch to sysadmin ML or bugreport 20:18:44 <simonnzg> I thought so. 20:19:50 <simonnzg> I think we have to wait for someone in sysadmin to have time to do some investigations. 20:20:01 <simonnzg> ...with sme reminders form us. 20:20:06 <papoteur> simonnzg: can I ask you to propose your suggestions to neoclust (again)? 20:20:08 <simonnzg> ...with sme reminders from us. 20:20:13 <simonnzg> ...with some reminders from us. 20:20:19 <papoteur> :) 20:20:43 <lebarhon> we already have been waiting for 6 months 20:20:47 <verophone> is there a reason other than security why isn't mageia on github? 20:21:13 <papoteur> lebarhon tried some pistures uploads with variable results, indeed. 20:21:40 <filip> simonnzg: your 'puppet changing some dirs permissions' theory make sense 20:21:41 <papoteur> verophone: don't know 20:22:45 <verophone> I think putting mageia's tools on git will accelerate development. 20:22:46 <yurchor> verophone: Some might say "Pride". Although, part of it (dnfdragora) is there. 20:22:49 <papoteur> I don't anything we can do here 20:23:13 <apb> Could I ask a (slightly off-topic, maybe) question about the wiki? 20:23:14 <simonnzg> No, probably not. 20:23:40 <simonnzg> apb: not notting you - I was replying to papoteur: ;P 20:23:47 <papoteur> apb: yes you can. 20:23:54 <apb> :) 20:24:03 <apb> I have a mock-up of the wiki Main Page. I think it is a bit neater/more logical. As it is a layout change (and as I am new), I wanted to ask your opinion about it: https://wiki.mageia.org/en/User:Apb/Sandbox2 20:24:25 <filip> verophone: apart from packages everything is already in git: http://gitweb.mageia.org/ 20:24:26 <[mbot> [ Mageia git Repositories ] 20:24:56 <verophone> i meant github* 20:25:21 <simonnzg> apb: Cleaner look, definitely 20:25:33 <apb> (sorry if I interrupted - thought that discussion was winding down) 20:25:51 <simonnzg> apb: Discussion of thw wiki carries on always 20:26:05 <verophone> apb: Looks more clear and easier to nagivate to me. 20:26:31 <lebarhon> apb: it needs some explanations 20:26:51 <apb> Sorry? 20:27:18 <apb> Reason for, you mean? 20:27:30 <simonnzg> General introductiory paragraph/s at the top? 20:27:49 <lebarhon> apb: you should propose your project on the ML and explain what you want to improve 20:28:21 <apb> Ah, ok. I'll do it there. Thanks 20:29:00 <simonnzg> "Welcome to the Mageia Project, it all works, except for this bit." :P 20:29:23 <papoteur> apb: Thanks for our proposition. It's some propositions we expect, new eyes. 20:29:49 <apb> I want to go through the wiki, first looking for ‘easy’ fixes (wording and such) and then back through, trying to pick up the more involved stuff. Aim to start from Main, and work out methodically. 20:29:54 <simonnzg> We do need to spice the wiki up a bit - it looks very "old fashioned" 20:30:15 <verophone> Yea especially switching languages 20:30:38 <apb> I think the main Page shouls satand out a little from the ordinary pages as well. 20:30:46 <apb> *should 20:31:12 <apb> typo's :( sorry. 20:32:02 <papoteur> Ok, guys, we doesn't void the list of topics, but I propose we stop for now and continue next week. What do you mean ? 20:32:18 <simonnzg> The main page should be different, yes. If only we could include pictures. .. 20:32:45 <apb> Have also noticed a couple of small things on Magei.org as well – what is the best way for me to pass those on? 20:33:11 <verophone> The languages section takes way too much space for the page. 20:33:14 <papoteur> filip: ^^ ? 20:34:17 <papoteur> verophone: this opens a new topic about the internationalization, promised with the new wiki ... ;) 20:34:25 <lebarhon> What do tou call main page ? this one https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Documentation 20:34:55 <papoteur> lebarhon: https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Main_Page 20:35:12 <filip> apb: you can email on atelier ML or to me personally whatever you find wrong or could be somehow improved 20:35:18 <verophone> papoteur: Will it use MediaWiki again? 20:35:31 <filip> apb: on web pages 20:35:39 <lebarhon> papoteur: this page isn't for public 20:35:57 <apb> Thanks filip. 20:36:24 <filip> apb: apart from translation. those are on TX or you can ping i18n ML 20:36:28 <papoteur> lebarhon: ? 20:36:53 <lebarhon> it is a page for "mageians" 20:37:50 <papoteur> lebarhon: this is the link for "Accueil" in "Navigation" 20:38:24 <papoteur> just above "Documentation" 20:39:11 <lebarhon> it is badly done 20:41:14 <lebarhon> sleep time ? 20:41:30 <yurchor> lebarhon: +1 20:41:36 <apb> Yes please :) 20:41:39 <papoteur> lebarhon: I think so 20:41:49 <lebarhon> well good night 20:41:58 <yurchor> good night 20:42:08 <verophone> Good night. 20:42:11 <apb> Good night all. Nice to meet you. 20:42:25 <papoteur> Is it OK for a meeting next week, same day, same time? 20:42:35 <yurchor> Ok. 20:42:38 <lebarhon> Ok here 20:42:38 <apb> Yes 20:42:50 <marja> I'll try to join that meeting, sorry for not having been in this one 20:42:57 <papoteur> apb: good night. Thanks 20:43:06 <papoteur> marja: you're welcome 20:43:06 <apb> I'll try not to be an hour early :) 20:43:20 <marja> apb: :-) 20:43:31 <papoteur> apb: :D 20:43:32 <simonnzg> Ok meeting next week, I think. 20:43:40 <papoteur> OK. 20:43:45 <simonnzg> Hi marja: nite nite 20:43:46 <papoteur> #endmeeting