19:07:11 <papoteur> #startmeeting
19:07:11 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Thu Aug 24 19:07:11 2017 UTC.  The chair is papoteur. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:07:11 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:07:14 <papoteur> Yes
19:08:05 <papoteur> Hello everybody. I recall that the meeting is recorded and will be published on our meeting logs.
19:08:29 <papoteur> #topic who's new?
19:08:58 <apb> Me
19:09:04 <papoteur> I see new nicknames here
19:09:06 <lebarhon> welcome
19:09:17 <papoteur> Welcome Anthony
19:09:29 <apb> Thanks
19:10:00 <papoteur> I suggest that anyone give an small introduction of himself.
19:11:02 <papoteur> I'm coleader with lebarhon of the docteam. In the Mageia project since Mageia 2, I think.
19:12:04 <papoteur> From France, more than 50 old. Two boys at home for the moment.
19:12:15 <yurchor> I'm a translation committer/Transifex administrator.
19:13:00 <yurchor> From Ukraine/Kyiv, scientist, lecturer.
19:13:40 <lebarhon> I'm in Mageia from the begining in 2011. Firstly for French translation, and now in docteam. France.
19:14:53 <papoteur> verophone: apb: your turns?
19:15:11 <papoteur> #chair lebarhon
19:15:11 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: lebarhon papoteur
19:15:16 <verophone> Me aswell.
19:15:39 <verophone> Mageia was one of my first linux distros.
19:16:01 <verophone> version 5
19:17:26 <verophone> I joined for Greek, Albanian translation, proofreading and UX text formatting
19:17:26 <papoteur> verophone: which identity do you use on mailing list ?
19:18:13 <verophone> papoteur: I have just registered to it.
19:18:48 <verophone> papoteur: I dont know how to use it, i guess it routes email you send to users that have subscribed to it?
19:19:06 <papoteur> verophone: yes
19:19:54 <papoteur> are simonnzg and wikigazer / treegazer here?
19:21:06 <papoteur> Ok, nobody else?
19:21:27 <papoteur> we have topics:
19:21:29 <papoteur> Mageia 6 post-mortem
19:21:48 <papoteur> Wiki state
19:21:51 <papoteur> Troubleshooting page
19:22:04 <papoteur> which topics to work on for next months
19:22:26 <papoteur> #topic Mageia 6 post-mortem
19:23:28 <papoteur> It is an habit to say what was Ok and not during the Mageia 6 development for each team.
19:23:43 <lebarhon> not much problems with Mageia 6
19:24:06 <papoteur> Council didn't ask for it for now, but I anticipate
19:24:37 <treegazer> here
19:24:40 <lebarhon> I think a release in july isn't a good idea
19:24:57 <yurchor> For me, it would be good the next time if we sync docs/translations at more regular basis. Everything else looked good.
19:25:01 <papoteur> lebarhon: I agree
19:25:26 <verophone> papoteur: I agree, but there was too much pressure.
19:26:29 <papoteur> #info Post-mortem: it would be good the next time if we sync docs/translations at more regular basis. Everything else looked good.
19:26:32 <yurchor> +1 but I like the release anyway. ;)
19:27:51 <lebarhon> A release with no wiki is also a bad thing, we can't relly help in the forum
19:28:01 <lebarhon> *really
19:28:33 <papoteur> Our official documentation doesn't evolve in large bit. It is stable, as our tools.
19:29:27 <papoteur> #info‎ A release with no wiki is also a bad thing, we can't relly help in the forum
19:29:38 <lebarhon> fortunately there was not much new features on the Mageia side
19:30:02 <apb> Post-mortem seems a strange term to use.
19:30:26 <papoteur> I think we lack communication about the new artwork in MCC
19:30:52 <papoteur> apb: :)
19:30:55 <yurchor> apb: We are talking about the release process. It's over. So for us it is actually dead. ;)
19:31:09 <papoteur> yes, but I didn't chose it
19:31:13 <apb> Hmmm .... ok.
19:31:58 <papoteur> yurchor: which a false asumption. We still have bugs to deal with.
19:32:15 <papoteur> *is
19:33:31 <yurchor> papoteur: Can we improve the docs in such way that they will be released we Mageia 6.x? Do we even plan something alike of Mageia 6.x?
19:33:55 <yurchor> *with
19:34:33 <papoteur> yurchor: I didn't ear of such a plan.
19:35:16 <yurchor> Then (apart from wiki and forum) Mageia 6 is dead for new docs. :(
19:35:25 <papoteur> yurchor: do you mean for translated doc or for the content ?
19:35:42 <yurchor> papoteur: Content for sure.
19:36:30 <verophone> I think you mean the docs don't need anything new as far as content is concerned? yurchor
19:36:32 <yurchor> We have updated Basque, Japanese and Russian docs translations.
19:37:04 <papoteur> we can plan one according to developper's plan. We don't know yet what will be the next cycle.
19:37:46 <verophone> There are some sections talking about deprecated tools
19:37:56 <yurchor> verophone: I think that we should concentrate on the good docs for the new release. We do not have enough resources to maintain two branches at once.
19:38:55 <verophone> yurchor: Do you mean Wiki docs or manuals?
19:39:00 <papoteur> verophone: which tool is deprecated?
19:39:43 <verophone> papoteur: Draksnapshot is one of them.
19:39:56 <yurchor> verophone: Manuals. Wiki is much more flexible in this sense.
19:40:17 <verophone> papoteur: I think someone had filed one bug report on bugzilla concerning draksnapshot.
19:40:38 <verophone> It doesnt work on 5.1 and 6
19:41:44 <verophone> yurchor: I agree, it is easier to read and comprehend as you can nagivate hyperlink to hyperlink.
19:42:07 <verophone> yurchor: In downloaded manuals isn't as fleasible.
19:42:31 <papoteur> verophone: yes. At first, I think that devs have to withdraw them, then we will follow.
19:43:11 <simonnzg> .me arrives late.
19:43:18 * simonnzg arrives late.
19:43:34 <papoteur> Hi simonnzg. You're welcome
19:43:44 <simonnzg> Sorry. I had to eat.
19:44:40 <papoteur> yurchor: I keep your idea to propse a release if a 6.1 release is proposed.
19:44:49 <papoteur> *propose
19:45:06 <papoteur> simonnzg: it's a good illness ;)
19:46:00 <lebarhon> if a 6.1 is released, it will be in a hurry
19:46:39 <verophone> We hope it doesn't happen.
19:47:08 <verophone> meaning everything goes well and we eventually adhere to the release scheldue
19:47:25 <simonnzg> We should be on 8.0 by now.. ;-)
19:47:31 <verophone> and we shall have 7
19:48:15 <papoteur> We can perhaps add or update translations, such as Japanese
19:48:17 <lebarhon> We should be on 9.0 cycle is 9 months
19:48:42 <verophone> papoteur: I could perhaps add Albanian translation
19:49:31 <verophone> looks like the fedora project has been succesful with the IT youth in albania
19:49:31 <yurchor> verophone: So register on Tx, apply for the membership and go... ;)
19:49:35 <simonnzg> I have not thought about translations, but are language packs updateable? The only bit that isn't is the install documentation, surely?
19:49:50 <verophone> Tx?
19:50:08 <papoteur> verophone: You'll be welcome. We have the translation on transifax host.
19:50:22 <yurchor> verophone: https://www.transifex.com/MageiaLinux/mageia/dashboard/
19:50:58 <lebarhon> verophone: do you know a community using Mageia ?
19:51:30 <verophone> papoteur: Nope.
19:51:30 <lebarhon> Tx stands fir Transifex
19:53:24 <verophone> Ugh i answered to papoteur instead of you lebarhon
19:53:38 <papoteur> simonnzg: a publication in one language can be easyly updated on mageia.org/doc I think.
19:54:26 <verophone> Does tx allow me to translate mroe than one language?
19:54:31 <simonnzg> OK, I wondered if we published language packs as RPM, that's all.
19:54:35 <verophone> looks like greek is 98%
19:54:39 <yurchor> verophone: Sure.
19:54:55 <papoteur> simonnzg: for the packaged documentation, I don't know. We have only one spec file which generate multiple packages.
19:55:18 <verophone> Ok i sent a request for 2 languages
19:55:27 <verophone> to join the team
19:55:46 <papoteur> verophone: :)
19:56:21 <yurchor> verophone: Accepted. Welcome aboard into the Mageia Translation Team. :)
19:56:43 <papoteur> I will ask to packager what is possible to do.
19:57:56 <papoteur> Next topic ?
19:58:00 <simonnzg> papoteur: It ouwld be nice to be able to update documentation on-the-fly. :) Welcome to the madhouse, verophone:
19:58:54 <lebarhon> verophone: Tx is for translatiing the text, but there is another procedure for the screenshots
19:59:26 <verophone> lebarhon: VMs i guess?
19:59:47 <filip> hi there. as always I can do the mageia.org/doc part.
19:59:52 <lebarhon> Don't know VM, it is Calenco
20:00:06 <yurchor> filip: Hi!
20:00:18 <filip> hi yurchor. nice to read you live ;)
20:01:08 <yurchor> lebarhon: He means that it is handful to make the screenshots in virtual machine.
20:01:34 <lebarhon> OK, it is up to him to decide
20:01:36 <papoteur> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Missing_MCC_and_installer_screenshots#Doing_screen-shots
20:02:28 <papoteur> #topic Wiki state
20:03:13 <simonnzg> Broken?
20:03:13 <papoteur> Wiki is not in good shape, it can't display images, or so few
20:03:34 <lebarhon> who is in  charge of the problem ?
20:04:09 <simonnzg> I don't know. wikigazer and I suspect that it is file permissions that are the problem.
20:04:13 <verophone> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21416
20:04:15 <[mbot> [ 21416 – No pictures are displayed on the wiki since the migration ]
20:04:27 <papoteur> wikigazer explored some replication, but this didn't help enough our sysadministrators
20:05:08 <verophone> that's strange and it happened at the wrong time
20:05:11 <papoteur> lebarhon: tmb and neoclust, for what I know.
20:05:15 <simonnzg> chmod -R 775 /var/www/html/wiki/images (or similar) :P
20:05:50 <verophone> do they use selinux>
20:05:51 <verophone> ?
20:06:00 <simonnzg> Some images DO make it onto the wiki. It happens, then it stops happening. You can see the timeline if you look at the special page for images
20:06:56 <simonnzg> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Special:ListFiles
20:06:56 <papoteur> the installed system interferes with a tool which supervise it (don't remeber the name)
20:07:05 <simonnzg> Puppet, maybe?
20:07:41 <papoteur> simonnzg: yes
20:07:48 <yurchor> Recently, we had some problems with images and access on KDE's wiki: https://userbase.kde.org/index.php?title=Thread:User_talk:Bcooksley/can_not_upload_a_new_version_of_an_image&rcid=453683
20:09:23 <simonnzg> http://gitweb.mageia.org/infrastructure/puppet/tree/modules/mediawiki/templates/LocalSettings.php
20:09:36 <simonnzg> Line 78-80
20:10:22 <lebarhon> We should create a new wiki from crash, it would take less long to restore it.
20:10:36 <papoteur> I don't think we can solve the problem here. We have to burry neoclust with our suggestion and help to understand the problem.
20:11:12 <simonnzg> we have enough people available who know how to make a wiki work safely. We can also write the documentation as we do it. :)
20:11:58 <simonnzg> My guess is that Puppet is getting in the way and blocking uploads, or re-writing permissions to the uploads folder.
20:13:16 <lebarhon> if we have enough people, why no one do the job ?
20:13:29 <simonnzg> lebarhon: The wiki does contain a lot of pages that are probably not necessary.
20:13:32 <papoteur> simonnzg: do you need permissions to do modifications on the site?
20:14:02 <simonnzg> As far as working on the wiki, I suppose so. I am just a user, though.
20:14:37 <simonnzg> I don't have permission to alter anythign on gitweb.mageia.org as far as I know.
20:15:09 <papoteur> simonnzg: this is why I ask the question
20:15:56 <simonnzg> Only neoclust has been making changes there since beginning of August.
20:16:34 <simonnzg> It is possible to do Git things like clone the repo, but can I make changes and put in a pull request? Maybe not.
20:16:35 <filip> you can always propose patch regardless of access
20:16:52 <papoteur> I have written on sysadmin list to expose our wiki problem with other things. I had an answer, but nothing is new.
20:17:36 <simonnzg> I think the problem is raw file and folder permissions on the wiki uploads directory. It works, then it doesn't, then it works. That is either a script or various people trying fixes. Or SE Linux being SE Linux.
20:17:45 <papoteur> simonnzg: we don't ahve pull requests management.
20:18:17 <papoteur> *have
20:18:41 <filip> papoteur: not as github but anyone can post patch to sysadmin ML or bugreport
20:18:44 <simonnzg> I thought so.
20:19:50 <simonnzg> I think we have to wait for someone in sysadmin to have time to do some investigations.
20:20:01 <simonnzg> ...with sme reminders form us.
20:20:06 <papoteur> simonnzg: can I ask you to propose your suggestions to neoclust (again)?
20:20:08 <simonnzg> ...with sme reminders from us.
20:20:13 <simonnzg> ...with some reminders from us.
20:20:19 <papoteur> :)
20:20:43 <lebarhon> we already have been waiting for 6 months
20:20:47 <verophone> is there a reason other than security why isn't mageia on github?
20:21:13 <papoteur> lebarhon tried some pistures uploads with variable results, indeed.
20:21:40 <filip> simonnzg: your 'puppet changing some dirs permissions' theory make sense
20:21:41 <papoteur> verophone: don't know
20:22:45 <verophone> I think putting mageia's tools on git will accelerate development.
20:22:46 <yurchor> verophone: Some might say "Pride". Although, part of it (dnfdragora) is there.
20:22:49 <papoteur> I don't anything we can do here
20:23:13 <apb> Could I ask a (slightly off-topic, maybe) question about the wiki?
20:23:14 <simonnzg> No, probably not.
20:23:40 <simonnzg> apb: not notting you - I was replying to papoteur:  ;P
20:23:47 <papoteur> apb: yes you can.
20:23:54 <apb> :)
20:24:03 <apb> I have a mock-up of the wiki Main Page. I think it is a bit neater/more logical. As it is a layout change (and as I am new), I wanted to ask your opinion about it: https://wiki.mageia.org/en/User:Apb/Sandbox2
20:24:25 <filip> verophone: apart from packages everything is already in git: http://gitweb.mageia.org/
20:24:26 <[mbot> [ Mageia git Repositories ]
20:24:56 <verophone> i meant github*
20:25:21 <simonnzg> apb: Cleaner look, definitely
20:25:33 <apb> (sorry if I interrupted - thought that discussion was winding down)
20:25:51 <simonnzg> apb: Discussion of thw wiki carries on always
20:26:05 <verophone> apb: Looks more clear and easier to nagivate to me.
20:26:31 <lebarhon> apb: it needs some explanations
20:26:51 <apb> Sorry?
20:27:18 <apb> Reason for, you mean?
20:27:30 <simonnzg> General introductiory paragraph/s at the top?
20:27:49 <lebarhon> apb: you should propose your project on the ML and explain what you want to improve
20:28:21 <apb> Ah, ok. I'll do it there. Thanks
20:29:00 <simonnzg> "Welcome to the Mageia Project, it all works, except for this bit." :P
20:29:23 <papoteur> apb: Thanks for our proposition. It's some propositions we expect, new eyes.
20:29:49 <apb> I want to go through the wiki, first looking for ‘easy’ fixes (wording and such) and then back through, trying to pick up the more involved stuff. Aim to start from Main, and work out methodically.
20:29:54 <simonnzg> We do need to spice the wiki up a bit - it looks very "old fashioned"
20:30:15 <verophone> Yea especially switching languages
20:30:38 <apb> I think the main Page shouls satand out a little from the ordinary pages as well.
20:30:46 <apb> *should
20:31:12 <apb> typo's :( sorry.
20:32:02 <papoteur> Ok, guys, we doesn't void the list of topics, but I propose we stop for now and continue next week. What do you mean ?
20:32:18 <simonnzg> The main page should be different, yes. If only we could include pictures. ..
20:32:45 <apb> Have also noticed a couple of small things on Magei.org as well – what is the best way for me to pass those on?
20:33:11 <verophone> The languages section takes way too much space for the page.
20:33:14 <papoteur> filip: ^^ ?
20:34:17 <papoteur> verophone: this opens a new topic about the internationalization, promised with the new wiki ... ;)
20:34:25 <lebarhon> What do tou call main page ? this one https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Documentation
20:34:55 <papoteur> lebarhon: https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Main_Page
20:35:12 <filip> apb: you can email on atelier ML or to me personally whatever you find wrong or could be somehow improved
20:35:18 <verophone> papoteur: Will it use MediaWiki again?
20:35:31 <filip> apb: on web pages
20:35:39 <lebarhon> papoteur: this page isn't for public
20:35:57 <apb> Thanks filip.
20:36:24 <filip> apb: apart from translation. those are on TX or you can ping i18n ML
20:36:28 <papoteur> lebarhon: ?
20:36:53 <lebarhon> it is a page for "mageians"
20:37:50 <papoteur> lebarhon: this is the link for "Accueil" in "Navigation"
20:38:24 <papoteur> just above "Documentation"
20:39:11 <lebarhon> it is badly done
20:41:14 <lebarhon> sleep time ?
20:41:30 <yurchor> lebarhon: +1
20:41:36 <apb> Yes please :)
20:41:39 <papoteur> lebarhon: I think so
20:41:49 <lebarhon> well good night
20:41:58 <yurchor> good night
20:42:08 <verophone> Good night.
20:42:11 <apb> Good night all. Nice to meet you.
20:42:25 <papoteur> Is it OK for a meeting next week, same day, same time?
20:42:35 <yurchor> Ok.
20:42:38 <lebarhon> Ok here
20:42:38 <apb> Yes
20:42:50 <marja> I'll try to join that meeting, sorry for not having been in this one
20:42:57 <papoteur> apb: good night. Thanks
20:43:06 <papoteur> marja: you're welcome
20:43:06 <apb> I'll try not to be an hour early :)
20:43:20 <marja> apb: :-)
20:43:31 <papoteur> apb: :D
20:43:32 <simonnzg> Ok meeting next week, I think.
20:43:40 <papoteur> OK.
20:43:45 <simonnzg> Hi marja: nite nite
20:43:46 <papoteur> #endmeeting