20:47:24 <papoteur> #startmeeting 20:47:24 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Tue Feb 10 20:47:24 2015 UTC. The chair is papoteur. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:47:24 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 20:47:43 <marja11> Inigo_Montoya: doesn't seem to like typos ;-) 20:47:43 <Inigo_Montoya> marja11: Error: "doesn't" is not a valid command. 20:47:47 <marja11> lol 20:48:30 <lebarhon> l'arroseur arrosé :) 20:48:35 <papoteur> which topic first? 20:48:36 <marja11> papoteur: after you did your topic, I'd like to add one : what about deleting epub and pdf publications with few screenshots 20:48:55 <marja11> after your topics 20:49:00 <papoteur> OK 20:49:31 <papoteur> #topic who's new? 20:49:56 <marja11> Ard1t: have you ever been in a docteam meeting before? 20:50:24 <papoteur> Is there someone who is not yetin our meeting 20:51:14 <papoteur> No one ? 20:51:26 <marja11> barjac: diogenese: leuhmanu: MrsB: pasmatt: Qilaq: feel free to join our meeting 20:52:39 <papoteur> # I have not yet access to my emails, which topic I have announced? 20:52:48 <marja11> papoteur: no one is used to a docteam meeting on Tuesday, I guess you weren't the only one for which this is very new 20:53:08 <marja11> papoteur: What's new for Mageia 5? Anything do document? 20:53:08 <marja11> What's to package? 20:53:08 <marja11> Please ask for other topic to add. 20:53:18 <lebarhon> topics :What's new for Mageia 5? Anything do document? 20:53:18 <lebarhon> What's to package? 20:53:23 <marja11> :-) 20:53:42 <lebarhon> sorry 20:53:42 <papoteur> Ok 20:53:59 <marja11> filip_: oops, I missed you, you're welcome, too, of course 20:54:18 <papoteur> #topic what new in Mageia 5 to document? 20:54:45 <marja11> the changed way to EFI install 20:54:52 <marja11> but I need to investigate more 20:55:00 <lebarhon> We need material for that 20:55:02 <papoteur> I think that something is changed in the installer. 20:55:27 <papoteur> But I have not yet tested it. 20:55:28 <marja11> it worked very much out of the box for me, but that may have been because it was just upgrade-installs I ded 20:55:31 <marja11> did 20:56:00 <lebarhon> It seems, no need to mount /boot/efi and installer can create the partitions 20:56:10 <marja11> papoteur: are you referring to EFI, or to something else? 20:56:10 <papoteur> marja11: do you noticed changes in screens? 20:56:29 <papoteur> EFI at least 20:56:42 <marja11> lebarhon: yes, pterjan added gpt support to drakx 20:57:38 <papoteur> Also the default partitionning (use all the place) changed. 20:57:40 <marja11> lebarhon: it cannot, of course, create gpt partitions on a legacy disk (but no partioner can do such a mix) 20:58:01 <lebarhon> A large part of the documentation needs to be re-written 20:58:02 <marja11> papoteur: yes, I hope it'll be better again, soon 20:58:27 <marja11> papoteur: Akien said that screen was good again in vm, with last night's iso 20:58:34 <papoteur> lebarhon: can you be more accurate? 20:59:17 <lebarhon> doc installer doesn't talk about the two partition options DOS/UEFI 20:59:30 <marja11> true 20:59:33 <papoteur> lebarhon: OK 20:59:40 <lebarhon> there is also the default Btrfs 21:00:16 <marja11> lebarhon: papoteur: I think we should add to the errata that it doesn't, and first get the Mageia 5 UEFI wiki page correct 21:00:19 <lebarhon> and the default partitions size (50Go for /) 21:00:19 <papoteur> I did not experienced that. And you ? 21:00:32 <marja11> lebarhon: forgot about that :-/ 21:00:56 <marja11> lebarhon: I've only seen default Btrfs in Live installs 21:01:06 <marja11> lebarhon: not in traditional 21:01:12 <papoteur> lebarhon: Yes, this should be a new item, as we have nothing about that yet 21:02:02 <lebarhon> marja11: I don't know about traditionnal 21:02:12 * marja11 wonders how much we should change at this point..... maybe better to contact l10n team, before driving them crazy 21:02:51 <lebarhon> We can start with Wiki page until Mageia 6 when things are clearer 21:03:00 <marja11> lebarhon: the only time I got btrfs partitions, was with a Live install, it never happened to me with traditional iso 21:03:13 <papoteur> marja11: we couldn't document before, because the options wasn't stabiilized 21:03:22 <lebarhon> I can't says as I can't install 21:03:26 <marja11> lebarhon: yes, that would be my preferred way, even for the default partitions size 21:04:04 <lebarhon> We could write and translate a wiki page about news in Mageia 5 21:04:08 <papoteur> Ah? 21:04:13 <marja11> lebarhon: forget what I just said, I nearly never let installer choose 21:04:39 <marja11> lebarhon: the release notes 21:04:58 <marja11> lebarhon: usually the packagers put in it what they think is important 21:05:17 <papoteur> I think we need at least some explanation from devs. 21:05:25 <lebarhon> marja11: do you say realease not are enough as documentation ? 21:05:30 <lebarhon> notes 21:05:36 <marja11> lebarhon: I think so 21:05:44 <marja11> lebarhon: and, of course, the errata 21:06:21 <lebarhon> release notes have no screenshots 21:06:44 <lebarhon> release notes imho aren't for newcomers 21:06:51 <marja11> lebarhon: true 21:07:17 <papoteur> marja11: can you say what is your point of view about the cycle of official documentation? 21:07:26 <marja11> lebarhon: I know you're very capable of writing something about what's new for newcomers 21:07:55 <lebarhon> if I have materials 21:08:01 <marja11> papoteur: it would have been nice to have the changes in it, before Mga5 release, but we're too late for that, I think 21:08:49 <papoteur> Ok, thus at which time should we publicate a new set? 21:09:06 <marja11> papoteur: so I think we should indeed have an errata for what is no longer up to dat in our documentation, linking to wiki pages with correct information 21:09:21 <marja11> papoteur: and update asap after Mga5 release 21:09:56 <marja11> papoteur: lebarhon: the only exception is if something is needed for the inline help for traditional installer 21:10:11 <marja11> papoteur: lebarhon: because that can't be updated after release 21:10:21 <marja11> however, MCC help can 21:10:39 <marja11> and online installer help can, pdf and epub can 21:11:17 <papoteur> there is no screenshots for the inline documentation 21:11:30 <marja11> papoteur: indeed 21:11:35 <papoteur> Thus we need only text. 21:11:37 <marja11> papoteur: and not all pages are visible 21:11:53 <marja11> papoteur: only the ones that are called from a help button 21:12:15 <papoteur> Is only the English version availble inline or also the translated versions? 21:12:48 <marja11> papoteur: also the translations, and the partly translated if I added them 21:13:15 <marja11> papoteur: I think we currently have 20 or more languages 21:13:49 <papoteur> marja11: thus, we need also translations about new matter. 21:14:19 <lebarhon> I thing we will have many changes after Mageia 5 release 21:14:41 <lebarhon> because we have not many UEFI testers 21:14:43 <marja11> papoteur: all blue directories here are for a different language, and then there is English http://gitweb.mageia.org/software/drakx-installer-help/tree/?id=5.2 21:14:45 <[mbot> [ drakx-installer-help - Mageia Installer Help ] 21:15:07 <marja11> papoteur: yes, everything we write needs to be translated 21:16:02 <marja11> so 22 translations + English (well, in fact pt and pt_BR are the same, currently) 21:17:04 <marja11> lebarhon: we won't get bored..... and then there is manapan (AdminPanel) to start on 21:17:35 <lebarhon> never heard of 21:17:41 <papoteur> I don't figure exactly which work is needed to adapt for the new stuff 21:18:22 <marja11> lebarhon: that is the libyui port of DrakX..... it allows for 21st century looks of our tools 21:18:40 <marja11> lebarhon: but also to use all tools with ncurses, so without X 21:19:07 <lebarhon> so we can put MCC help in the trashbin 21:19:20 <marja11> lebarhon: no, we can re-use most of it 21:19:37 <lebarhon> but hopefully it is for Mageia 23 21:19:58 <marja11> lebarhon: I don't think it'll be ready for Mageia 6, or even 7 21:20:21 <lebarhon> well, come back to 5 21:20:28 <marja11> lebarhon: but I'll create a separate workspace in Calenco to work on it 21:20:51 <marja11> lebarhon: yeah, let's focus on Mga5 21:21:02 <lebarhon> Can we write an updated installer help in 22 languages before march ? 21:21:14 <lebarhon> *update 21:21:46 <marja11> lebarhon: is there anything you can think of, now, that is connected with a help button in installer and needs to be updated before release? 21:22:32 <marja11> lebarhon: for the tranlations, we should ask l10n, or filip_ if he hears us now 21:22:39 <papoteur> I will review the installer documentation and see what is to adapt. 21:22:50 <lebarhon> format, main partitions, size, FS... 21:23:11 <marja11> papoteur: wb 21:23:23 <lebarhon> papoteur is blinking 21:23:36 <marja11> papoteur: lebarhon just mentioned "format, main partitions, size, FS..." 21:23:44 <papoteur> sorry, the connection seems weak 21:23:59 <marja11> but I don't even know what of that really changed :-( 21:24:15 <marja11> ah, yes, gpt 21:24:19 <lebarhon> that is the problem 21:24:20 <papoteur> marja11: me too :/ 21:24:48 <papoteur> HI psyca 21:24:48 <lebarhon> We could write a list on the wiki and each one try to complete 21:24:55 <psyca> Hi papoteur 21:24:56 <marja11> akien will know about the default partitioning 21:25:10 <papoteur> psyca: we have doc meeting. You can join us. 21:25:13 <marja11> psyca: hi 21:25:20 <psyca> k... hi marja11 21:25:37 <marja11> psyca: you might even be able to help, we are wondering what changed for traditional installer 21:25:40 <papoteur> marja11: Yes, but I saw the exchange. It's not a problem. 21:25:58 <marja11> papoteur: good 21:26:37 <papoteur> but about btrfs, I don't know anything 21:26:41 <psyca> marja11: compared to mga4? 21:26:41 <marja11> papoteur: thx for having offered to review the installer documentation 21:26:49 <marja11> psyca: yes 21:27:26 <lebarhon> We could write a list of what changed on the wiki and each one try to complete 21:27:29 <marja11> psyca: and we don't really know when which installer defaults to btrfs partitioning, and when to ext4 (if still) 21:27:58 <marja11> lebarhon: or ask dev team? 21:28:18 <lebarhon> they have no time for us 21:28:34 <papoteur> Yes, we should ask dev list. 21:29:05 <marja11> tbh, I think we should add in installer help that there are languages for which the keyboard choice screen at the beginning of install is not shown 21:29:06 <psyca> hm... i selected btrfs manualy.. didnt recognised that it switch automaticly... doesnt it use ext4 as default yet in beta2 21:29:14 <lebarhon> I think it is Btrfs for new partitions but the existing ones stay ext4 21:29:24 <papoteur> #info ask dev team about changes on default partitionning (size, fs). 21:29:53 <psyca> if i select autocreate (empty disk) for full drive it uses ext4 21:30:16 <lebarhon> psyca: Btrfs came with M5B3 21:30:27 <marja11> and that if you don't see that screen, then try adding an additional language at the beginning of install 21:30:40 <psyca> ok... i only test the iso releases... no M5B3 on Servers :( 21:30:44 <papoteur> marja11: keyboard, is it a bug or a feature? 21:31:13 <psyca> public servers 21:31:33 <marja11> papoteur: it has been like that since at least 10 years ago, but I consider it to be a bug, except for like in Chinese, when it is impossible to have a different keyboard 21:32:02 <marja11> papoteur: https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12348 21:32:04 <[mbot> [ Bug 12348 Classic installer does not offer keyboard layout for some languages until summary screen ] 21:32:04 <papoteur> marja11: OK. 21:32:38 <lebarhon> Bug 12348 for Gnome only 21:33:24 <marja11> papoteur: it was fixed for Turkish recently, but won't be fixed for other languages before Mga5 release (and only if the Tr fix doesn't show regressions) 21:33:25 <papoteur> Is it all for the installer for the moment? 21:33:52 <marja11> lebarhon: that's a different bug https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14476 21:33:54 <[mbot> [ Bug 14476 gdm and gnome fail to use the right keyboard layout ] 21:34:06 <lebarhon> OK Thanks 21:34:13 <marja11> lebarhon: and now valid for KDE, since it was fixed for Gnome :-/ 21:34:19 <marja11> papoteur: yes, I think so 21:34:52 <papoteur> Is there something new in the MCC? 21:35:12 <marja11> papoteur: isodumper should have been in it 21:35:22 <papoteur> marja11: :) 21:35:39 <lebarhon> it will be in manapan 21:35:41 <marja11> papoteur: maybe we can ask anaselli and pasmatt to add it to AdminPanel/ManaPan 21:35:50 <marja11> lebarhon: yes :-) 21:36:12 <papoteur> yes, it's possible. 21:36:21 <lebarhon> but isodumper isn't good for UEFI 21:36:47 <papoteur> I proposed a patch to add Isodumper in MCC, without success :/ 21:37:14 <papoteur> lebarhon: error, you don't see the new version. 21:37:22 <marja11> lebarhon: ah, you mean you want a way to copy the contents of an iso to a USB-stick? 21:37:57 <marja11> papoteur: yeah.... can you remind me of the bug report number which contains your patch? 21:38:00 <lebarhon> Yes, can isodumper do it? 21:38:41 <papoteur> lebarhon: Yes, but this version is not yet packaged. In some days. 21:38:49 <marja11> papoteur: \o/ 21:39:00 <lebarhon> BTW why is it possible to use dd to copy an ISO on USB stick with Ubuntu and not Mageia? 21:39:01 <papoteur> marja11: It was a message in dev-list 21:39:11 <pasmatt> marja11: do you mean adding isodumper to adminpanel? 21:39:18 <marja11> papoteur: if you have time, then please file a bug report for it 21:39:21 <marja11> papoteur: yes 21:39:26 <marja11> oops 21:39:29 <marja11> pasmatt: yes 21:40:17 <papoteur> lebarhon: I don't know. 21:41:10 <papoteur> #todo papoteur file a bug for isodumper in MCC or adminpael. 21:41:26 <marja11> lebarhon: I don't know, either, but have been told I should use cp and not dd 21:41:32 <papoteur> Other new thing in MCC 21:41:34 <papoteur> ? 21:41:58 <marja11> the security stuff was already updated by you guys, IINM 21:42:27 <marja11> msec and such 21:43:00 <lebarhon> Can MCC write in Grub2 ? boot order for ex 21:43:06 <marja11> I think there is nothing new, only the risk of losing things 21:43:28 <marja11> lebarhon: you can choose Grub2, but the next screens are meaningless 21:43:44 <marja11> lebarhon: like in installer, they don't do anything for Grub2 21:44:08 <papoteur> OK 21:44:28 <marja11> lebarhon: so no, you cannot change the Grub2 boot order in MCC 21:44:52 <papoteur> If you detect something, you can expose it on ML or to the next meeting. 21:44:52 <lebarhon> grub-customizer is always there 21:45:25 <marja11> lebarhon: yes, it would be good, if it isn't mentioned in our MCC help, to mention that 21:45:45 <lebarhon> I don't think we talk about it 21:46:17 <marja11> I don't remember having seen it 21:46:21 <lebarhon> grub-customizer can manage grub2-efi ? 21:47:01 <marja11> lebarhon: I don't know, never tried.... but I manage efi boot order with efibootmgr 21:47:14 <marja11> lebarhon: efibootmgr is a cli tool, though 21:47:40 <lebarhon> So we need to doc efibootmgr somewhere 21:48:00 <marja11> lebarhon: yes, indeed.... I should :-/ 21:48:23 <papoteur> wiki or doc? 21:48:26 <lebarhon> you or someone else 21:48:39 <marja11> papoteur: start on wiki, when good add in doc 21:49:02 <lebarhon> if we say that doc have all is needed to install and configure Mageia, ... 21:49:23 <papoteur> #info marja will start a wiki page about efibootmgr. 21:49:29 <marja11> papoteur: thx 21:49:31 <papoteur> OK? 21:49:36 <marja11> yep 21:49:48 <lebarhon> lewis write a wiki page about it 21:49:57 <papoteur> ? 21:50:08 <marja11> lebarhon: ah, that saves me work :-) 21:50:29 <lebarhon> #link https://wiki.mageia.org/en/About_EFI_UEFI 21:50:55 <lebarhon> I didn't understand much 21:51:17 <marja11> I wrote this, about when it goes wrong with efibootmgr https://wiki.mageia.org/en/EFI:_can_no_longer_boot_into_Mageia 21:52:13 <lebarhon> I tried Supergrub2, did not boot :( 21:52:42 <marja11> lebarhon: did you set it as boot-first device? 21:53:02 <papoteur> OK, you have just to check that lewis has a good level ;) 21:53:03 <lebarhon> yes, it is automatic 21:53:07 <marja11> lebarhon: tbh, I only tried it on CD and DVD, never on USB 21:53:32 <lebarhon> USB is often a problematic method 21:53:39 <marja11> lebarhon: :-/ 21:54:33 <lebarhon> nest topic ? 21:54:43 <papoteur> What else? 21:54:44 <marja11> fine with me 21:55:21 <marja11> papoteur: pdf and epub publications with few screenshots ...... delete them on docteam.mageia.nl ? 21:55:39 <marja11> papoteur: ah, and we still need to use your front page! 21:55:40 <papoteur> #topic What's to package? 21:56:04 <marja11> the front page you made 21:56:19 <papoteur> #undo 21:56:19 <Inigo_Montoya> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0xa4bd16c> 21:56:35 <papoteur> #topic publications 21:57:21 <marja11> I have the feeling that, especially for newcomers, publications with many missing screenshots are no good 21:57:26 <lebarhon> what are the advantages? 21:57:32 <papoteur> marja11: I think docteam.mageia.nl is a tool to work. 21:57:40 <lebarhon> too late 21:57:51 <marja11> papoteur: yes, but now it is linked to from the new documentation page in the wiki 21:57:54 <papoteur> marja11: we have no obligations to have all on it. 21:58:09 <papoteur> ? 21:58:19 <marja11> no, there is no obligation 21:59:05 <marja11> it is nice, for translators, to see the webhelp, and the webhelp can be adjusted on mageia.nl to use the En screenshots for missing localised ones 21:59:13 <marja11> so the webhelp is no problem 21:59:15 <papoteur> I don't find the links 21:59:34 <marja11> papoteur: in red squares 21:59:54 <marja11> papoteur: the pdf/epub links are to docteam.nl 22:00:08 <marja11> papoteur: because they aren't on docteam.org, yet 22:00:12 <lebarhon> marja11: you means thre are doc that is translated without the screenshots? 22:00:52 <marja11> lebarhon: we miss an incredible amount of screenshots 22:01:18 <marja11> lebarhon: just compare the sizes of the publications http://docteam.mageia.nl/PDF/MCC/ 22:01:19 <[mbot> [ Index of /PDF/MCC ] 22:01:25 <papoteur> marja11: sorry I don't find 22:01:33 <lebarhon> I can't understand someone did the hard work, translate, and not the easy one 22:02:16 <marja11> papoteur: https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Documentation 22:02:22 <papoteur> I get screenshots for romanian, done by Dune. 22:02:38 <lebarhon> why don't put the English screenshot instead? 22:02:54 <marja11> papoteur: click on epub format or pdf format in a red box 22:03:10 <marja11> lebarhon: then the script to find missing screenshots won't work any longer 22:03:34 <papoteur> marja11: OK, 22:03:42 <marja11> lebarhon: the only thing I can do (and do) is run a script to change links to missing screenshots in the webhelp, to link to En screenshots 22:04:02 <marja11> lebarhon: then the missing screenshot script still works 22:04:47 <marja11> apart from that, we need to create new pdfs with papoteur's front page 22:05:18 <papoteur> marja11: Yes, it's possible to withdraw incomplete documents. 22:05:51 <lebarhon> No SC is better no no help at all 22:06:51 <marja11> OK, I'll remove all that are remarkably smaller than 10MB (10Mo) for MCC pdf 22:06:59 <papoteur> marja11: do you lack space? 22:07:22 <marja11> and I'll try to grab the missing stage2 installer screenshots soon 22:07:30 <marja11> papoteur: remmy didn't complain 22:07:42 <papoteur> ;) 22:08:18 <marja11> papoteur: but he hopes we'll move to mageia.org, he always intended this to be a temporary solution 22:08:18 <papoteur> for -cover, what is to do? 22:09:01 <papoteur> I don't remember. 22:09:36 <marja11> papoteur: well, either I should merge * and *-cover, and add some tags so that the correct part is used when the different publications are made 22:10:04 <marja11> or I should remove all pdf publications and redo them with *-cover 22:10:18 <marja11> papoteur: do you have access to docteam.mageia.nl? 22:10:27 <papoteur> marja11: no. 22:11:00 <marja11> papoteur: give me an #Action to fix the pdf's, please 22:11:12 <papoteur> marja11: do we need -cover for each language? 22:11:38 <marja11> papoteur: yes, I think it's already translated, isn't it? 22:11:47 <papoteur> #action marja will fix the PDF publications. 22:11:48 <marja11> papoteur: at least, that's what I thought I saw 22:11:54 <marja11> papoteur: thx 22:12:41 <papoteur> not sure 22:13:03 <marja11> I'll login to Calenco and look 22:13:20 <papoteur> #action papoteur check that *-caover are available for each publication. 22:13:57 <papoteur> lebarhon: do you know what is *cover? 22:14:10 <marja11> my fingers are too twisted, don't manage to type my password :-/ 22:14:14 <lebarhon> no, a cover I suppose 22:14:16 <marja11> oh, but I can look in git 22:15:54 <papoteur> lebarhon: A PDF publication with a cover. I modfied Drakx.xml in DrakX-cover.xml 22:16:28 <marja11> papoteur: I see it for DrakX.cover, but not for MCC-cover 22:17:02 <papoteur> #todo papoteur creates MCC-cover 22:17:27 <marja11> papoteur: thx 22:17:46 <papoteur> Ok, I think it is late. I propose to stop yet. 22:17:58 <marja11> papoteur: good idea :-) 22:18:07 <lebarhon> Why keep Drakx.xmll 22:18:12 <marja11> papoteur: thx for having called for the meeting 22:18:25 <marja11> lebarhon: for the non-pdf publications 22:18:38 <lebarhon> Thx and good night everyone 22:18:45 <papoteur> We should have a next meeting before months. 22:18:52 <marja11> lebarhon: good night 22:18:58 <marja11> papoteur: yes, indeed 22:19:15 <papoteur> in two weeks? 22:19:22 <marja11> papoteur: fine 22:19:36 <lebarhon> before Mageia release 22:19:59 <papoteur> we will say the day on ML. 22:20:10 <marja11> lebarhon: that'll be before release, beta3 release and rc will come first 22:20:13 <lebarhon> not a monday 22:20:16 <marja11> papoteur: OK 22:20:29 <marja11> lebarhon: fine with me 22:20:48 <marja11> papoteur: lebarhon: again on Tuesday? 22:20:56 <lebarhon> yes 22:21:15 <papoteur> marja11: no, I am in genral in train at this time. 22:21:22 <marja11> papoteur: ouch 22:21:39 <papoteur> le jeudi, c'est mieux pour moi. 22:21:45 <marja11> papoteur: d'accord 22:21:50 <lebarhon> Ok for jeudi 22:21:51 <marja11> lebarhon: jeudi? 22:21:54 <marja11> :-) 22:22:08 <papoteur> OK 22:22:15 <papoteur> #endmeeting