19:01:56 <marja> #startmeeting 19:01:56 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Mon Jan 6 19:01:56 2014 UTC. The chair is marja. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:01:56 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:02:05 <marja> napcok: hi :-) 19:02:22 <marja> #chair lebarhon 19:02:22 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: lebarhon marja 19:02:29 <marja> #topic screenshots, screenshots, screenshots 19:03:31 <marja> #info for some languages we still miss (as good as) all screenshots, for other languages a lot 19:04:15 <Kernewes> for MCC? 19:04:26 <marja> Kernewes: and installer 19:04:45 <lebarhon> Is that connected with the server crash ? 19:05:40 <marja> lebarhon: no, they have just never been made, I'm at fault, too, I think I have only half of the Dutch MCC screenshots 19:06:23 <lebarhon> You mean translators did not do the screenshots 19:06:29 <marja> screenshots are needed, though, and better English screenshots than no screenshot...... or do you disagree? 19:07:10 <marja> lebarhon: indeed, well... for German there are more screenshots available, but no one had time to give them the proper names (for MCC help) 19:07:58 <lebarhon> If the problem is to rename already existing screenshots, I can help 19:08:09 <marja> lebarhon: let me find the link 19:08:49 <yurchor> I think it is easy enough to copy English screenshots. 19:09:18 <yurchor> And then translators will replace them as appropriate... 19:09:45 <marja> lebarhon: I don't know which ones of those are still missing.... there might be duplicates http://waesvanm.home.xs4all.nl/screenshotsAlf/MCC/ 19:09:46 <[mbot> [ Index of /screenshotsAlf/MCC ] 19:10:05 <marja> lebarhon: Alf made them, but real life got in the way so he couldn't name them 19:11:17 <marja> yurchor: I think that is the best solution..... would it be easy, before we start copying them, to first list which ones are not present in every language? 19:11:22 <yurchor> H-m-m... 161 files. It is not an easy task to rename all of them. 19:12:11 <marja> renaming is indeed a hard job.... you need a big screen, to see the original English screenshot and the translated one at the same time 19:12:16 <yurchor> marja: I will try to write a script for this. 19:12:22 <Kernewes> I think it would be easier if the translators could do the screenshots, because presumably they're already working in the right language 19:12:30 <marja> yurchor: that would be great 19:13:18 <marja> Kernewes: yes... but maybe we need to give them better instructions 19:13:22 <lebarhon> yurchor: a script to do what please ? 19:13:49 <marja> lebarhon: to list the missing screenshots for each language 19:14:22 <lebarhon> OK, If the de screenshots have to be renamed, I can do that 19:14:36 <yurchor> lebarhon. A script to compare a fuul list of existing images and the list of the images that are nneded to produce correct docs. 19:14:55 <Qilaq> Estonian has AFAIK all (sxcept for soundConfig in installer help manual) but some may be little bit old ... 19:15:47 <marja> lebarhon: well, I did make some for Indonesian installer, but the German files job is big enough, I think..... I'll try to rename the ID installer ones myself 19:16:30 <marja> Qilaq: old isn't a problem... soundConfig should indeed be the current Mageia 4 beta2 or RC version 19:16:32 <Qilaq> e.g. I'm not sure for the image in installer help where are packages selection 19:17:02 <marja> Qilaq: I don't think it changed, let me look 19:17:29 <Qilaq> IMO that screen has changed appearance - were it collapsible groups or something 19:20:23 <marja> Qilaq: ouch.... I had forgotten about that 19:21:06 <marja> #info the package groups selection screen has probably changed appearance 19:22:04 <marja> #info for many languages we need a better screenshot for doPartitionDisks (many new users have a windows partition, it confuses some of them when that isn't in the screenshot) 19:22:37 <marja> #info soundConfig needs a Mga 4 screenshot, too 19:24:00 <marja> #Action lebarhon will try to select and name the still missing German screenshots in the large set of screenshots Alf made 19:24:19 <marja> napcok: how is screenshotting going for you? 19:24:46 <napcok> marja: will do screens for installer tonight 19:25:47 <marja> napcok: thanks ...... it is allowed to use Mageia 4 RC for it, too, btw (and then you can get more needed ones), the only disadvantage is it having "4 RC" in the left panel 19:26:23 <Qilaq> a practical question about screenshotting: as always, there is Beta or RC written in left panel - where do we get iso without that or do we have just wait? 19:26:24 <marja> napcok: and there might be a new iso for screenshotting just for docteam 19:26:44 <marja> Qilaq: I'll ask ennael to create one again 19:27:05 <marja> #action marja ask ennael to create new docteam iso for screenshotting 19:28:23 <lebarhon> marja: did you forget to create the action for yurchor script ? 19:28:44 <marja> lebarhon: yes... feel free to do the #action.... you're a chair! 19:29:19 <marja> s/feel free to/can you please/ 19:29:29 <papoteur> Hello, docteam, sorry to be late. 19:29:36 <lebarhon> #Action Yurchor try to write a script to list the missing screenshots for each language 19:29:41 <marja> papoteur: np, good to see you 19:29:49 <marja> #chair papoteur 19:29:49 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: lebarhon marja papoteur 19:29:55 <yurchor> lebarhon: Thanks. 19:30:10 <marja> lebarhon: thx :-) 19:30:40 <lebarhon> No return from the system ? is that OK ? 19:30:54 <marja> lebarhon: yes, I never get a return 19:31:08 <lebarhon> Ok, thx 19:31:49 <lebarhon> papoteur: Hello :) 19:32:26 <marja> I had hoped meetbot would already have started writing in http://meetbot.mageia.org/mageia-doc/2014/ .. but he only created the "2014" directory 19:32:28 <[mbot> [ Index of /mageia-doc/2014 ] 19:33:10 <marja> lebarhon: I suppose there is a way to see what meetbot is logging while he is still busy, but I wouldn't know how 19:34:04 <lebarhon> marja: you are welcome :) 19:34:16 <marja> #action marja tell pasmatt that we'll add English screenshots where translated shots are missing, so he doesn't need to write a script any more to do that for the mageia-doc package 19:34:22 <diogenese> There's always pastebins: http://www.fpaste.org/66237/03683513/ 19:35:21 <marja> diogenese: yes :-) but I think lebarhon's question was about confirmation that the command was correct 19:35:58 <marja> diogenese: I've made mistakes when grenoya did commands, and I thought they were OK, but meetbot didn't accept them 19:36:18 <diogenese> marja: Ah, understood. 19:36:19 <marja> diogenese: she asked and I said they were OK :-( 19:36:37 <marja> is there more on this topic? 19:37:10 <marja> ah yes 19:39:10 <marja> #info if you want to make an MCC screenshot for another language, for instance for "sv", then first install "locales-sv" and then start MCC in that language like this "LANGUAGE=sv mcc" 19:39:41 * Qilaq have to be away for an hour or so 19:40:08 <marja> Qilaq: have a nice evening 19:40:31 <marja> can we go on with next topic? 19:40:31 <papoteur> marja: good info :) 19:40:43 <papoteur> marja: I think so. 19:40:45 <marja> papoteur: :-) 19:41:27 <marja> #topic Lebarhon's NewYear's greetings ..... what did they (not) bring? 19:42:02 <marja> lebarhon: your turn... and thanks for all the effort you put in writing every one! 19:42:14 <lebarhon> Unfortunately, I had only the usual answers. I must tell I forgot Qilaq (he has a second nickname) 19:43:33 <marja> lebarhon: well, it is good you tried, now we know for sure there are no more workers in the team than the ones who are already active 19:44:29 <marja> lebarhon: is there anything else you want to add, or shall we go on with next topic? 19:44:43 <lebarhon> people like Filip or Yuri aren't Docteam Members and do a great job 19:45:05 <marja> lebarhon: they certainly do! 19:45:11 <lebarhon> Should we consider they are docteam members 19:45:13 <papoteur> lebarhon: it was great to try. 19:45:29 <papoteur> lebarhon: Yes, of course ;) 19:45:59 <lebarhon> I will add them in the list in case of another docteam mail 19:46:26 <marja> lebarhon: well, I've seen yurchor as a docteam member for already a long time, and Filip, yes, now that you ask I see him as one of us, too 19:46:46 <marja> lebarhon: thx :-) 19:46:48 <yurchor> Thanks again. :) 19:47:21 <marja> :-) 19:47:41 <marja> next topic? 19:47:52 <papoteur> marja: Yes 19:47:52 <lebarhon> Yes 19:47:54 <marja> ah, that was mostly done, already 19:48:09 <marja> #topic help in EPUB and PDF format 19:48:43 <marja> #info grenoya will work on adding the EPUB and PDF help files to doc.mageia.org, too 19:49:04 <papoteur> Fine 19:49:12 <lebarhon> EPUB has problems with the screenshots 19:49:35 <marja> #info the missing screenshots in those publications will be automatically replaced by English ones, when those are added to Calenco for the translations 19:49:38 <papoteur> lebarhon: what kinds? 19:50:06 <lebarhon> papoteur: Screenshots are cut 19:50:46 <papoteur> I see the same when viewing with okular 19:50:49 <yurchor> marja: I have just uploaded all uk fixed screenshots (without transparency). 19:50:56 <lebarhon> They are oversized and half the screenshot is missing 19:51:00 <marja> yurchor: perfect! 19:51:21 <marja> okular isn't meant to view EPUB 19:51:38 <papoteur> marja: you reported to view epub with calibre. Is the probleme the same? 19:51:41 <yurchor> papoteur: It's an Okular epub backend bug. 19:52:10 <marja> papoteur: yes, ubut that was fixed 19:52:18 <yurchor> Looks fine in calibre and on my PocketBook 602 reader. 19:52:24 <lebarhon> Epub isn't correct either with the Firefox plugin 19:52:34 <yurchor> lebarhon: Ok. 19:53:23 <marja> papoteur: there were two screenshots that had a fixed width, that was removed (or was that only done in git? don't remember, I'll check) 19:54:07 <marja> lebarhon: with calibre it looks OK here, but I certainly didn't view all pages of all EPUB files we have 19:54:37 <marja> lebarhon: papoteur: if there is something still wrong, then please tell with which screenshot(s) 19:54:48 <lebarhon> I don't have Calibre, I know Epub for 3 days 19:55:26 <marja> lebarhon: I installed it after yurchor told me about Calibre, I didn't know it, either 19:56:25 <marja> #info our EPUBs files should look OK in calibre 19:56:34 <marja> #undo 19:56:34 <Inigo_Montoya`> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x84bea2c> 19:56:41 <marja> #info our EPUB files should look OK in calibre 19:57:36 <marja> is there more on this topic? 19:58:45 <papoteur> Yes 19:58:55 <marja> papoteur: go ahead :-) 19:59:02 <papoteur> Do we prepare a presentation page for PDF files 19:59:25 <marja> papoteur: what do you mean? 19:59:33 <papoteur> I remember that the document starts with the TOC 19:59:48 <marja> papoteur: yes, it does 20:00:08 <papoteur> s/presentation/a cover page 20:00:09 <marja> papoteur: ah, you mean a cover page? 20:00:14 <marja> papoteur: lol 20:01:46 <marja> papoteur: good idea.... I'm not sure what the good way to add it is... maybe we should have a DrakX-pdf.xml instead of DrakX.xml and similar for MCC 20:01:58 <papoteur> I think that there is a need to adapt XSL sheet, but I proved that I can deal with that 20:02:56 <papoteur> marja: Ah yes. I will have a look. 20:03:03 <marja> papoteur: well, we need a solution too, for the #### (instead of the translated title of the publication) at the top of each Russian, Greek and Ukrainian page 20:03:21 <lebarhon> I just tried Epub with Calibre, it seems OK (But I don't like apps without "File" in the menu :-) ) 20:03:27 <marja> papoteur: thx for looking :-) 20:04:06 <marja> lebarhon: ah, I didn't immediately understand how to open the file, either 20:04:37 <marja> #action papoteur will try to make a cover for the PDFs 20:05:02 <yurchor> marja: It seems FOP for some reason does not substitute Liberation fonts for Mono and Courier families... 20:05:45 <yurchor> It can be easily seen on Okular properties "Fonts" tab. 20:05:45 <marja> yurchor: ah, and that is what is used at the top of the pages 20:05:53 <marja> yurchor: thx 20:06:51 <marja> yurchor: I even considered making a "DrakX-pdf" and replacing the title with a space 20:07:11 <marja> yurchor: I think no title at all is not possible 20:08:11 <yurchor> marja: Can Camille help us with this trouble? 20:09:03 <marja> camil: can you? (the #### instead of the title of the publication at the top of each PDF page for Ukrainian, Russian en maybe more 20:09:41 <marja> yurchor: tbh, I think he would already have solved this, too, when he solved the issue of the ##### being al over the pages 20:11:14 <marja> yurchor: papoteur: if the pdf publications are placed inside another one, that serves as cover, and the other one gets a space as title, and the real title as sub-title...... would that maybe solve it? 20:11:35 <marja> s/publications are/publication is/ 20:12:52 <marja> papoteur: there is a council meeting in 20 minutes (or maybe 35 minutes French time) 20:13:02 <yurchor> marja: I do not know exactly. Sorry. 20:13:15 <papoteur> marja: OK, I will try that. 20:13:20 <marja> yurchor: np 20:13:31 <marja> papoteur: thx, hth :-) 20:13:36 <marja> next topic? 20:14:27 <papoteur> marja: Thx for the info, I saw that. 20:14:40 <marja> or is there more on the PDFs and EPUBs? 20:14:40 <papoteur> marja: Yes, next topic 20:14:42 <marja> ok 20:15:09 <marja> #topic a place in the wiki for suggestions and ideas for our team 20:15:26 <marja> we don't have such a page or corner yet, do we? 20:15:51 <papoteur> there a page for todo 20:15:55 <marja> (bug squad had it) 20:16:21 <marja> papoteur: yes, but that is for things of which we know we'll want them 20:17:01 <marja> papoteur: well, of course, if everyone thinks Qilaq's ideas are great, they can just be added 20:17:26 <marja> but, tbh, my mind was into iso testing, screenshots and some more things 20:17:29 <papoteur> Qilaq:'s idea is great, yes. 20:18:15 <marja> lebarhon: Kernewes: yurchor: diogenese: if you agree, then Qilaq's suggestions can be added to the todo page 20:18:33 <Kernewes> what suggestions? 20:18:44 <marja> napcok: you too, of course 20:19:09 <papoteur> Qilaq said : From here a suggestion: maybe it would be nice idea to mention that the first, English screen can be changed to the screen in user's mother tongue with F2 and choosing appropriate language? (If needed, there may be even two quite identical images, one in English, another localized.) 20:20:04 <marja> and he also suggested to document all F-keys 20:20:31 <Kernewes> papoteur: you mean during installation or booting into live mode? 20:20:48 <marja> but I'm not sure they all work (there are two that don't seem to do anything for me, apart from being able to change a setting that doesn't seem to affect anything) 20:20:54 <marja> Kernewes: installation 20:21:04 <marja> Kernewes: with traditional installer 20:21:48 <Kernewes> well any suggestions like that are always welcome 20:21:49 <papoteur> I propose to add Qilaq suggestion in https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Docteam_Todo_list 20:21:56 <Kernewes> agreed 20:21:56 <lebarhon> That is to move the problem, in which language do you say to strike F2 ? 20:23:01 <Kernewes> lebarhon: if it goes on the wiki, there will be translations done, won't there? 20:23:55 <marja> lebarhon: first you show the English screen, and tell to hit F2 to change the language to French, and then the translated screen 20:24:21 <marja> Kernewes: hopefully, if the wiki upgrade gets done that'll be easier 20:25:06 <lebarhon> But you tell to hit F2 in English, so the first page is never lacalised 20:25:13 <lebarhon> */localised 20:26:34 <marja> lebarhon: I think he talked about the help..... we now show the English boot screen, he suggested to add a translated screen after telling to hit F2 (in Estonian, French or Dutch or whatever) 20:27:22 <marja> lebarhon: it is about this page http://docteam.mageia.nl/fr/installer/content/installer.html 20:27:23 <[mbot> [ DrakX, l'installateur de Mageia ] 20:28:27 * marja now thinks it is a good idea, too 20:28:57 <lebarhon> To be seen in real situation 20:30:20 <marja> lebarhon: if in the boot screen you already choose French, then the Language choice screen will be in French, too 20:30:49 <lebarhon> It is already the case ? 20:31:43 <marja> lebarhon: yes, try it :-) (if it doesn't work, then it's a bug, it did work before) 20:31:44 <papoteur> I think we should shorten the meeting. The important yet is to keep the Qilaq's proposition in the wiki. 20:32:03 <papoteur> Then we can decide what to do later. 20:32:25 <marja> OK, so we need a docteam_ideas page 20:32:55 <Kernewes> why not an ideas section at the bottom of the todo page? 20:33:21 <papoteur> Kernewes: yes, it's a good idea. 20:33:21 <marja> Kernewes: ah, yes..... that would be enough for now (and maybe forever ;-) ) 20:33:32 <papoteur> marja: :) 20:33:53 <marja> #action add an ideas section to the docteam todo page and put Qilaq's suggestions in it 20:34:09 <marja> shall we end the meeting? 20:34:20 <lebarhon> Ok for me 20:34:21 <Kernewes> yes 20:34:26 <papoteur> marja: Ok for me 20:34:30 <marja> #endmeeting