19:05:59 <marja> #startmeeting 19:05:59 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Mon Nov 25 19:05:59 2013 UTC. The chair is marja. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:05:59 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:06:27 <marja> #chair lebarhon papoteur 19:06:27 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: lebarhon marja papoteur 19:06:33 <marja> #topic Obgr_seneca, without whom our team would not exist, has stopped being our deputy because of serious time constraints. A huge *Thank*You*Oliver* to him for all he's done for our team and for Mageia. 19:07:07 <marja> #info this leaves us with only one teamleader, which is too few (other teams have 2 or 3 leaders) 19:07:59 <marja> #info papoteur is willing to become deputy, lebarhon is willing to help with leadership tasks without having a leader's position 19:08:39 <marja> lebarhon: papoteur: that is correct, what I put in the #info about you two, isn't it? 19:08:51 <lebarhon> Ok for me 19:09:27 <marja> lebarhon: maybe only papoteur's computer is here, but he himself not yet 19:09:43 <lebarhon> I see him away 19:09:53 <marja> ah 19:10:41 <marja> #idea marja will mail the ml and propose papoteur as new deputy (since there are too few team members present' 19:11:15 <marja> #undo 19:11:15 <Inigo_Montoya> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Idea object at 0x84b6dec> 19:11:30 <marja> #action marja will mail the ml and propose papoteur as new deputy (since there are too few team members present' 19:11:45 <marja> anything else on this topic? 19:12:11 <marja> lebarhon: would you like to be "team contact" ? 19:12:37 <lebarhon> What is it ? 19:13:34 <marja> lebarhon: the one who keeps in touch with team members, like you did some time ago when you checked who was still with us, and also the one who can be contacted when people want to contact a team contact :-) 19:14:02 <marja> lebarhon: feel free to say "no" ;-) 19:14:30 <marja> and also free to say "yes" of course :-) 19:14:37 <lebarhon> I don't feel like saying no 19:15:06 <lebarhon> Ok 19:15:19 <marja> lebarhon: thanks! 19:16:49 <lebarhon> May be we should have a todolist up to date 19:17:11 <marja> #infor lebarhon volunteers to be our team contact, who keeps in touch with team members (and checks who are still with us) from time to time, and who can be contacted when someone looks for our team contact 19:18:23 <marja> lebarhon: yes... how often should the team members we don't have contact with over meetings and such, be contacted? once per 6 months? 19:19:01 <lebarhon> marja: You wrote #infor 19:19:13 <swecarp> marja: 6 months sounds like a good time tabel 19:19:18 <marja> lebarhon: and maybe we should go over the old #actions from past meetings, to see what still needs to be done 19:19:25 <marja> lebarhon: thx 19:19:53 <marja> #info lebarhon volunteers to be our team contact, who keeps in touch with team members (and checks who are still with us) from time to time, and who can be contacted when someone looks for our team contact 19:20:59 <lebarhon> I think we should have a clear job to do before asking people to do it 19:21:24 <marja> lebarhon: ah, that is correct 19:21:43 <marja> lebarhon: so the todo list for the wiki documentation needs to be checked 19:22:20 <marja> lebarhon: and a list of incomplete or missing MCC-help documentation made 19:22:21 <lebarhon> do we have a general to do list ? wiki and help and ... 19:22:39 <marja> lebarhon: no general one, at least not that I know of 19:23:47 <lebarhon> Do you think it is useful? 19:24:02 <marja> lebarhon: but it would be good to have a general one, which can of course contain links to more specific ones 19:25:28 <marja> lebarhon: if we keep it updated: yes ........ maybe we could start with a TODO section on our team page or team portal, and link in that section to the existing todo pages (about wiki and mcc help) 19:25:55 <lebarhon> I can start by this page and then call everyone to have a look at it 19:26:19 <marja> lebarhon: thanks a lot! 19:27:08 <lebarhon> Is "doc-team to do list" a good title ? 19:27:18 <marja> #action lebarhon will start with a TODO page (or section) for our team, with links to the already existing todos for wiki documentation and mcc help 19:27:36 * simonnzg says "Sorry I'm late" 19:27:57 <marja> simonnzg: np, can you please answer lebarhon's question 19:28:09 <marja> simonnzg: you're better at English than me ;-) 19:28:21 <simonnzg> Maybe "to-do" ? It's not really a word.. 19:29:18 <marja> simonnzg: what do you propose? 19:29:22 <lebarhon> Is "doc-team todo list" better ? 19:30:22 <marja> #topic docteam todo list 19:30:36 * marja should have changed topic before 19:31:22 <simonnzg> Well, 'to-do' is more correct, but 'todo' is also ok. Words often have hyphens as they evolve. As soon as they're accepted, the hyphen gets lost. :-) 19:31:23 <marja> lebarhon: if simonnzg doesn't respond, then just give it the title you think is best, the page can always be moved later if needed 19:31:29 <marja> oops 19:31:34 <marja> sorry simonnzg :-[ 19:31:47 <simonnzg> ME? NOT RESPOND? That's hard! ;-) 19:32:06 <simonnzg> You can't stop me talking... yak, yak, yak.. ;-) 19:32:11 <marja> simonnzg: lol 19:32:25 <simonnzg> Seriously, though. Use todo. 19:32:38 <lebarhon> Ok 19:33:32 <marja> is there more on this topic? 19:34:09 <lebarhon> no, next one 19:34:58 <marja> #topic are there non-MCC tools for which we really need to add pages in the help? 19:35:38 <lebarhon> #link https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Calenco_Draktools#Non_default_MCC_tools 19:35:39 <marja> lebarhon: I changed my mind about mgaapplet, no one will search for it in the last chapter, when they are new to Mageia 19:35:48 <marja> lebarhon: thx for the link :-) 19:36:45 <lebarhon> marja: there is a real problem imho to make newcomers unserstand what is Mageia and what is KDE/Gonme 19:37:54 <marja> lebarhon: indeed 19:38:39 <marja> lebarhon: I thought we had a section about non-MCC Mageia tools, too .... wonder where it went 19:39:39 <marja> lebarhon: but information about KDE/Gnome etc is indeed more important 19:40:27 * marja wonders whether we should make a page with links to upstream documentation about the DEs and important packages 19:41:12 <lebarhon> Is it the MageiaWelcome duty ? 19:42:00 <marja> lebarhon: I'll start my cauldron to check which information can be retrieved over MageiaWelcome 19:43:24 <lebarhon> hi Dune 19:43:26 <marja> Dune06: welcome :-) 19:43:43 <Dune06> hi everybody 19:44:06 <papoteur> Hello docteam. 19:44:12 <marja> papoteur: hi :-) 19:44:23 <Dune06> It's just a fast visit, to see if my IRC connection works 19:44:23 <lebarhon> hello Sir Deputy 19:44:43 <lebarhon> Dune06: it works fine 19:44:57 <marja> papoteur: lebarhon already voted for you ;-) 19:45:33 <lebarhon> papoteur was elected with 100% of the votes 19:45:54 <marja> papoteur: was it OK what I said in an #info at ± 20.07h? 19:46:25 <marja> papoteur: that you're willing to become deputy? 19:47:39 <marja> papoteur: I didn't look up suppléant in my dictionary, took it to mean "deputy", but if it means an equal leader, I'd prefer bein equal :-) 19:49:30 <papoteur> yes suppléant is good for me ;) 19:49:42 <marja> lebarhon: all I see now, is a link to https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Newcomers_start_here 19:50:05 <marja> papoteur: what does it mean, an equal leader or a deputy? 19:51:08 <marja> papoteur: either way, you have my vote, too, of course :-) 19:52:01 <lebarhon> marja: There is in this link nothing about the desktop look :-( 19:52:05 <papoteur> marja: as deputy, not equal leader. 19:52:37 <papoteur> marja: you have more experience, and I can not replace you. 19:52:40 <Dune06> sorry, I have to leave you. Have a good meeting. 19:52:50 <marja> Dune06: thx 19:53:00 <marja> Dune06: have a nice evening 19:53:34 <marja> lebarhon: I'm not sure what is in Macxi's documentation 19:54:14 <marja> lebarhon: maybe there are some existing pages that can be added to Newcomers_start_here 19:55:26 <marja> papoteur: you have more experience ..... I know nothing about python, for instance ;-) 19:55:28 <lebarhon> Macxi's documentation is about installation and sources installation 19:55:32 <marja> papoteur: but deputy is OK 19:56:04 <papoteur> Python is not useful to manage Calenco and doc xml files 19:56:33 <marja> #link https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Desktop_environments 19:57:33 <marja> that page needs to be expanded, though 19:57:40 <lebarhon> marja: This link isn't about the desktop looks 19:58:23 <papoteur> Yes, we have nothing about KDE or GNOME. 19:58:52 <marja> lebarhon: put in a screenshot for every DE? 19:58:58 <papoteur> It is not enough to give a link to an external documentation. 19:59:14 <lebarhon> I agree 19:59:17 <papoteur> marja: at least 19:59:39 <lebarhon> We must at least show what is Mageia and what is upstream 20:00:04 <papoteur> we have something for LXDE 20:00:06 * marja agrees, but is blind to how to do that 20:00:07 <papoteur> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/LXDE_desktop 20:00:47 <papoteur> we should have a look to other distros. 20:01:06 <marja> that is nice (but I'm a bit afraid large pages will be hard to maintain) 20:01:39 <lebarhon> See https://wiki.mageia.org/mw-en/index.php?title=XFCE_desktop&action=history 20:02:35 <papoteur> the page is interesting 20:02:38 <lebarhon> we have LXDE and Xfce but nothing about KDE or Gnome 20:02:58 <marja> lebarhon: that doesn't look too bad, if that page is still up-to-dat, then it is fine with me to do it like that for the other DEs, too 20:03:10 <marja> s/dat/date/ 20:03:25 <marja> #chair papoteur 20:03:25 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: lebarhon marja papoteur 20:03:43 <marja> yurchor: welcome 20:03:51 <yurchor> Hi! 20:03:53 <papoteur> Hello yurchor 20:04:03 <lebarhon> I only use KDE and don't know if the others DE are up to date 20:04:35 <papoteur> Who wants to start pages on KDE or GNOME? 20:04:36 <marja> yurchor: papoteur will be our new deputy, you can vote for him now :-) 20:05:05 <yurchor> Then my vote is for papoteur. :) 20:05:11 <marja> lebarhon: maybe that would be something to ask our silent team members? 20:05:21 <marja> yurchor: nice :-) 20:06:00 <marja> simonnzg: did you vote already? (papoteur for deputy) 20:06:35 <papoteur> about KDE, we just have https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Speeding_up_KDE 20:06:36 <yurchor> Is it really necessary? At least for KDE, Mageia ships almost default version. Its description can be found on UserBase. 20:08:29 <yurchor> papoteur: Bad advices... Semantic desktop disabling prevents from using KMail and almost does not save resources in the current versions... 20:08:50 <lebarhon> yurchor: it is because newcomers don't know what is Mageia and what is DE 20:08:54 <papoteur> yurchor: this is not really what I imagine we can offer to newcomers. 20:09:12 <marja> #link http://userbase.kde.org/An_introduction_to_KDE 20:09:13 <[mbot> [ An introduction to KDE - KDE UserBase Wiki ] 20:10:09 <papoteur> yurchor: thus you can complete the page. This is not my propositions ;) 20:10:23 <yurchor> lebarhon: Ok. Can we avoid duplication? Or at least do not make developers angry by random disabling of features? 20:10:40 <yurchor> papoteur: Ok. Later this week. 20:11:10 <marja> lebarhon: and if we just tell users there are different options for DEs, with 1 screenshot for each one, and maybe a short description for whom it is meant (like people with a poor system for LXDE) 20:11:35 <lebarhon> We can't ask people to read a lot of pages about KDE just to know where is the MCC icon 20:11:38 <marja> lebarhon: and additionally a link to the upstream documentation 20:11:44 <yurchor> Mageia ships _very_sane defaults. No one else is such sane as Mageia packagers. 20:12:08 <papoteur> marja: sure 20:12:34 <marja> lebarhon: indeed, so we can make a screenshot of our own icons (MCC, mgaaplet, net applet... is there more?) 20:13:23 <marja> lebarhon: and tell them those tools are own to Mageia 20:13:25 <lebarhon> Our own icons, the menu and a link upstream, that should be enough 20:13:25 * simonnzg has been called away. 20:13:56 <papoteur> I think we can explain also the system-settings and what is diffrent with MCC 20:13:57 <marja> lebarhon: OK, that sounds goo to me 20:14:08 <marja> papoteur: ah, that is a good one 20:14:23 <yurchor> +1 20:14:25 <marja> papoteur: and that they do sometimes conflict (or is that only in cauldron?) 20:14:59 <papoteur> marja: ? I don't know 20:15:21 * yurchor do not know too 20:15:26 <papoteur> We can explain what is perhaps redundant. 20:15:28 <marja> papoteur: I guess it has only happened in cauldron 20:15:56 <papoteur> duplicated 20:16:48 <marja> papoteur: I'd prefer telling that some thins are redundand, I think the list will change 20:17:02 <marja> papoteur: instead of mentioning exactly what 20:17:16 <papoteur> who is candidate to start? 20:17:36 <lebarhon> Which MCC tools aren't in system-settings ? 20:17:37 <papoteur> marja: OK 20:17:56 <marja> papoteur: we have a lot of sleeping team members, maybe some of them are willing to help ..... lebarhon, wdyt? 20:18:08 <papoteur> lebarhon: I think the network tools. 20:18:28 <marja> lebarhon: something similar to diskdrake? 20:18:51 <marja> lebarhon: tbh, I nearly never use system-settings 20:18:53 <yurchor> lebarhon: scannerdrake, NFS configuration 20:19:19 <marja> lebarhon: ah, but for bluetooth, I use it because MCC doesn't have it (or I never found it) 20:19:57 <lebarhon> MCC is old and never "redecorated" 20:20:28 <yurchor> autologin and videocard drivers configuration 20:20:34 <lebarhon> These wikipages about DE must be in the Newscomers start here" 20:20:35 <papoteur> lebarhon: a new just version with gtk3 is just pushed today 20:21:11 <lebarhon> papoteur: a new MCC version ? 20:21:16 <marja> indeed, and that should help redecoration 20:21:24 <yurchor> Does anybody know if the screnshots for GTK+ 3 version should be redone? 20:21:31 <yurchor> Does it look the same? 20:21:40 <marja> yurchor: ouch! very good question 20:21:44 <papoteur> lebarhon: some tools, but not all. 20:21:50 <marja> yurchor: I understood the looks would be enhanced 20:22:15 <marja> screenshotting takes lots of time :-/ 20:22:22 <papoteur> yurchor: I don't know 20:23:20 <marja> well, *if* the looks change dramatically, I propose to target Mga5 for new screenshots, and not redo the ones we already have for Mga4 20:23:43 <papoteur> I think we can yet ask on the ml some volunters for this page. 20:24:02 <marja> only if a tool gets new features, so that the help text needs to be adjusted, we need to adjust the text 20:24:35 <lebarhon> doc freeze is for december 21 20:24:47 <marja> papoteur: yes, asking the ml first sounds good 20:25:17 <papoteur> #action papoteur will ask on the ml some volunters to write a wiki page on KDE and GNOME 20:25:27 <marja> lebarhon: for text, if we want to get the translations in, we should be ready a week before 20:25:37 <marja> papoteur: thx :-) 20:26:57 <marja> lebarhon: it is later than I thought, I won't stop you if you feel the urge to redo screenshots 20:27:25 <papoteur> Tv wote : 20:27:26 <papoteur> drakxtools, drakx-net, drakx-kbd-mouse-x11, 20:27:28 <papoteur> drakx-installer-stage2, meta-task & userdrake 20:27:29 <papoteur> They've been ported from gtk2 to gtk3 and now rely on maintained packages. 20:27:37 <papoteur> s/wote/wrote 20:27:56 <lebarhon> screenshots doesn't need to be bleeding edge, 20:28:11 <marja> lebarhon: I agree :-) 20:29:27 <marja> papoteur: would it be an idea to include the MCC help pages that aren't written yet, in your mail? 20:29:47 <marja> papoteur: at the bottom of the mail, just as a reminder 20:29:59 <papoteur> marja: OK 20:30:08 <marja> papoteur: thx :-) 20:30:43 <marja> is there anything else on this topic? 20:32:05 <papoteur> No for me. 20:32:10 <marja> #info all people present who voted, voted for papoteur as deputy 20:32:29 <marja> shall we close the meeting? 20:32:57 <papoteur> I think so. 20:33:12 <marja> #endmeeting