16:00:49 <marja> #startmeeting
16:00:49 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Tue Aug 21 16:00:49 2012 UTC.  The chair is marja. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:49 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
16:01:15 * marja is afraid everybody thinks UTC is CEST :(
16:01:21 * marja welcome everybody
16:01:30 <marja> #topic the wiki
16:02:12 <marja> does anybody have any news on the wiki, about the upgrade problems?
16:02:45 <marja> obgr_seneca is very busy finishing his thesis, he won't have found time to work on it
16:02:52 <marja> lebarhon: welcome :)
16:02:58 <lebarhon> hello
16:03:11 <lebarhon> am I late ?
16:03:27 <marja> lebarhon: I just asked whether anyone know anything about the current state of the wiki upgrade
16:03:31 <marja> lebarhon: we just started
16:03:55 <marja> diogenese: ping for the meeting
16:04:06 <diogenese> marja: I'm here
16:04:14 <marja> diogenese: great :)
16:04:53 <marja> #info no one knows anything about the wiki upgrade, marja will ask obgr_seneca at froscon
16:05:08 <marja> anything else about the wiki?
16:05:48 <marja> #todo marja ask obgr_seneca this weekend about the wiki upgrade
16:06:12 <marja> #topic Calenco documentation
16:06:54 <marja> #info our todo lists are https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Help_buttons_in_DrakX-installer#TODO and https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Calenco_Draktools#TODO
16:07:27 <marja> #info we have a basic layout (needs to be improved) for MCC help http://docteam.mageia.nl/en/MCC/content/
16:07:31 <Nikerabbit> I'm here too, due to other meeting bein cancelled
16:08:05 <marja> #info many pages need to be added to MCC help, most of the pages that are already there still need to be written
16:08:16 <marja> Nikerabbit: nice to have you around
16:09:12 <marja> Nikerabbit: do you happen to have any news about the wiki upgrade? I missed everything
16:10:29 <marja> does anybody have questions about what we do in Calenco?
16:10:49 <Nikerabbit> marja: I haven't heard of anything :(
16:10:57 <marja> Nikerabbit: ah, that is sad
16:10:58 <yurchor> marja: Is system-config-prenter hels ready for translation?
16:11:22 <yurchor> *printer
16:11:31 <marja> Nikerabbit: I think that'll change after obgr_seneca finished his thesis, so after this weekend
16:11:39 <grenoya> sorry, i'm late /o\
16:11:45 <grenoya> hi every one
16:12:10 <marja> papoteur: lebarhon: do you know whether system-config-printer is ready for translation?
16:12:23 <marja> grenoya: welcome :)
16:12:30 <marja> grenoya: better late than never ;)
16:12:37 <lebarhon> Papoteur made a great job, I think it is ready
16:13:01 <marja> #info system-config-printer is ready for translation
16:13:02 <Nikerabbit> marja: of that's cool
16:13:09 <Nikerabbit> oh*
16:13:13 <marja> Nikerabbit: :)
16:13:24 <yurchor> A-ha. thanks. BTW, how it can be opened (or planned to be opened) from MCC interface?
16:14:34 <marja> yurchor: you open the help from the menu bar in MCC
16:15:41 <marja> yurchor: almost all tools open the help in an overview page, this will be that overview page for the hardware tools http://docteam.mageia.nl/en/MCC/content/mcc-hardware.html
16:16:08 <marja> from there you click on the appropriate link to get to the help page you need
16:16:12 <yurchor> SCP hac two items in help menu: Troubleshooting and About, nothing more... :'(
16:16:19 <yurchor> *has
16:16:26 <marja> yurchor: SCP??
16:16:40 <yurchor> system-config-printer
16:17:05 <marja> ah
16:17:22 <marja> looking
16:17:49 <lebarhon> yurchor is right
16:18:56 <marja> if you start the tool from mcc, there is another screen before it
16:19:41 <marja> ouch, no, you're right, it is wrong
16:20:13 <yurchor> So it should be a part of mcc-hardware help?
16:21:26 <lebarhon> It's a bug since scanner, UPS, keyboard, ... have a help
16:21:33 <marja> yurchor: I'll compare with Mdv 2010.1, if I remember correctly, the help was there
16:21:55 <yurchor> A-ha. Thanks.
16:22:05 * marja is it possible the help for many pages was surpressed, because we don't have a help atm?
16:23:05 <yurchor> Actually system-config-printer is Fedora thing, so maybe it should be patched here.
16:23:43 <marja> yurchor: yep, but the menu bar is MCC
16:25:02 * marja does everybody feel free to work on any MCC help pages, or on one of those new ones for installer?
16:26:44 * marja thinks everybody is very talkative tonight
16:27:29 <marja> MrsB: I forgot to ping you, sorry
16:27:58 <yurchor> I can write about mcc-localdisks
16:28:02 <MrsB> hi marja, its ok I've not been here mostly
16:30:01 <marja> yurchor: one of the tools in there was already written, but the other two still need to be done, so yes, please write them
16:30:20 <yurchor> Ok.
16:31:15 <marja> yurchor: I haven't yet figured out which filenames they should get (I usually choose the command from /usr/sbin/ that starts it, only one time I use a link instead of the actual thing)
16:32:09 <yurchor> I think it can be guessed by the messages that are shown for the missing help items.
16:32:40 <marja> yurchor: http://docteam.mageia.nl/en/MCC/content/drakdisk.html is already written (not proofread, I think), but although drakdisk is a link to diskdrake, we had to use drakdisk as filename here, because diskdrake has already been used for installer
16:33:03 <yurchor> Ok.
16:33:06 <marja> yurchor: oops, it is a very short page.... feel free to expand it
16:34:15 <JohnR> Please don't begin translating until EN proofreading is done - you'll see my name against the module when I have completed each module. (System-config-printer contains a lot of frenglish)
16:35:04 <marja> JohnR: but as long as it is technically correct, what can the problem be? I won't translate it into frutch instead of dutch
16:36:15 <JohnR> marja: It may be technically correct, but it could also mean the translators needing to rewrite sections too
16:36:27 * marja is sad JohnR didn't say this earlier in the meeting
16:36:55 <JohnR> I didn't see it until a few minutes ago, I was busy elsewhere - sorry
16:37:27 <marja> #info JohnR advises not to translate anything before English proofreading is finished, not even system-config-printer
16:38:19 <marja> #info ennael is already starting on preMga3Alpha
16:38:56 <marja> #info some of the new help texts for installer that need to be written, haven't been written yet
16:39:50 <JohnR> marja: Do we have a list of those texts anywhere?
16:40:08 <marja> #todo ALL look at the bootloader and graphical pages in installer help, and see what needs to be written http://docteam.mageia.nl/installer/content/
16:40:10 <annew> sorry I didn't get back in time
16:40:27 <annew> isn't system-config-printer the one that I edited for english?
16:40:41 <marja> #info also look here https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Help_buttons_in_DrakX-installer#TODO
16:40:50 <marja> annew: I thought you had done that page
16:41:09 <marja> annew: so maybe JohnR didn't see it since you worked on it
16:42:00 <JohnR> annew: I'm looking at the text in Calenco - it's full of frenglish and strange constructions
16:42:05 <marja> JohnR: from the todo list, those WIP pages are started (with a screenshot, IIRC), but they don't have written content
16:42:17 <JohnR> marja: ok
16:42:45 <annew> JohnR: looking
16:43:36 <JohnR> marja: the paras in the xml really need ids - It very hard to point to particular bits without them :-(
16:44:33 <marja> JohnR: we can use ctr +f to find what you want us to see
16:44:40 <marja> JohnR: I'll look here http://docteam.mageia.nl/en/MCC/content/system-config-printer.html
16:44:58 <marja> JohnR: please give a sentence you don't agree with
16:45:07 <lebarhon_> Marja: Do you mean the installer help needs to be proofread from A to Z ?
16:45:18 <marja> lebarhon_: no
16:45:38 <lebarhon_> I didn't understand :(
16:45:46 <JohnR> marja: 3rd para "The installation of a printer uses the Mageia Control Center (MCC), ..."
16:45:48 <marja> lebarhon_: some new files are needed in installer, I started them, but I didn't write them
16:46:48 <annew> JohnR: what would you write instead?
16:47:41 <annew> apare from the fact that I would use > between choices, it seems clear enough to me
16:47:44 <marja> lebarhon_: JohnR doesn't want us to start translating MCC help files yet
16:47:46 <JohnR> annew: "Printer installation is carry out in the hardware section of the mageia Control Cetre.
16:48:20 <JohnR> annew: "Printer installation is carried out in the hardware section of the mageia Control Centre, in the section named ..."
16:48:41 <marja> lebarhon_: but it is confusing, because we are talking about missing help texts for installer help and about MCC help at the same time
16:49:26 <JohnR> Ok, I'll step out
16:50:16 <marja> JohnR: are you leaving us?
16:50:28 <marja> JohnR: if so: sleep well
16:50:35 <JohnR> marja: no, I'm demoting myself
16:50:44 <marja> JohnR: ??
16:50:54 <annew> JohnR: the general style is more formal than I would have used, but it's important to keep the style of the existing documents
16:51:02 <annew> so I didn't make unnecessary changes
16:51:08 <annew> if it's clear, I leave it alone
16:51:36 <marja> annew: clarity is most important :)
16:51:57 <JohnR> It is technically correct - it does scan well - the language is clumsy to me
16:52:07 <JohnR> It is technically correct - it does NOT scan well - the language is clumsy to me
16:52:19 <annew> in a sense it is back to front -
16:52:35 <annew> starting from the desired effect and stepping back through the labels to find it
16:52:49 <annew> I would have done it differently, but it's not actually wrong
16:52:53 <annew> so I didn't change it
16:52:54 <JohnR> annew: that particular para - yes, but that's not the only one
16:54:04 <JohnR> annew: I suspect you would have written in much the same way as I did above ... :-)
16:54:04 <marja> annew: are you OK with letting JohnR change it as he thinks wise?
16:54:15 <annew> of course
16:54:33 <marja> JohnR: go change it ;)
16:54:41 <annew> he is more familiar than the accepted mageia style than I am
16:54:46 <annew> so will work with more confidence
16:54:46 <marja> JohnR: after you got some sleep :þ
16:55:48 <annew> made a couple of minor changes - things I missed first time,
16:55:59 <annew> so JohnR - refresh before working :-)
16:56:09 <JohnR> There are two steps to proof reading - technical and language - this example meets the technical aspect but not the language aspect - make sense?
16:56:29 <annew> ok - I have no problem with that
16:56:36 * marja looks for volunteers who want to write or expand http://docteam.mageia.nl/installer/content/setupBootloaderAddEntry.html and http://docteam.mageia.nl/installer/content/configureX_card_list.html and http://docteam.mageia.nl/installer/content/configureX_monitor.html (in calenco, of course)
16:56:47 <annew> I'm always aware than many european languages are more formal than modern english
16:57:28 <marja> annew: :)
16:57:45 <marja> JohnR: yes
16:57:50 <JohnR> annew: True enough but what we present to the translators dhould scan sensibly too :-)
16:58:00 * marja any volunteers for those three files
16:58:00 <annew> yes
16:58:03 <marja> ?
16:58:47 <JohnR> marja: I'm working on the last 2
16:58:56 <marja> JohnR: thx a lot
16:59:05 <JohnR> I keep getting waylaid :-(
16:59:41 <marja> #todo JohnR will write or expand configureX_card_list and configureX_monitor
17:00:20 * marja who wants to expand setupBootloaderAddEntry ?
17:01:30 <annew> called away - back soon
17:02:00 * marja didn't buy icecream and candy to thank all docteam volunteers for the fantastic work they did before, and now they are more reluctant to do things
17:03:07 <lebarhon_> No reluctant, but this job need some skills
17:03:24 <marja> lebarhon_: that is true, thanks for mentioning it
17:03:55 <marja> #idea if we don't have the skills to write certain help texts, we'll ask in #mageia-dev for help
17:05:01 <marja> maybe shlomi would be willing to help, he popped in in this channel before
17:05:03 <JohnR> marja: In fact the devs should be supplying that help text :-) afterall they put the app together ;-)
17:05:15 <marja> JohnR: :)
17:05:58 <marja> JohnR: so we make MCC help with just the empty pages with screenshot and then mail dev ml to tell them to fill the pages :)
17:06:26 <JohnR> Why didn't we think of that earlier? :-)
17:06:31 <marja> JohnR: lol
17:06:48 <marja> JohnR: because it didn't work like that in Mdv?
17:07:07 <marja> shall we end the meeting?
17:08:25 <marja> #todo everybody who didn't supply his preferred meeting times yet, do it now http://studs.unistra.fr/studs.php?sondage=33q3ngscfoml35es
17:08:27 <JohnR> marja: It did, but there was a documentation manager with a very big stick who assisted them in their writings too :-0
17:08:45 <marja> JohnR: ah, so we need ennael's matches :-D
17:09:05 <JohnR> marja: And that manager was salaried as well :-)
17:09:27 <marja> JohnR: some people are willing to bully developers for free ;)
17:09:50 <JohnR> marja: Let's leaver that to the lady with the matches :-)
17:09:58 <JohnR> -r
17:09:59 <marja> JohnR: :)
17:10:38 * marja shall we end the meeting?
17:11:16 <JohnR> ok by me :-)
17:11:36 <marja> everyone else has already fallen asleep
17:11:42 <marja> #endmeeting