19:00:29 <marja> #startmeeting 19:00:29 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Tue Mar 20 19:00:29 2012 UTC. The chair is marja. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:00:29 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:00:38 <marja> #chair obgr_seneca 19:00:38 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: marja obgr_seneca 19:00:42 * Led43_Mag2 is lurking 19:00:46 <MrsBTest> morning doc 19:00:54 <marja> well, 3 meeting items so far: 19:00:56 <obgr_seneca> morning MrsBTest 19:01:10 <marja> the wiki, installer help and how everyone is doing 19:01:30 <marja> Hi MrsBTest :) 19:01:40 <marja> any preferences for what to start with? 19:01:43 <sebsebseb> hi 19:01:47 <marja> hi :) 19:01:47 <MrsBTest> hi! typing and eatiing so may be quiet 19:01:51 <marja> np 19:02:07 <doktor5000> installer help? 19:02:10 <marja> fine 19:02:20 <marja> #topic installer help 19:02:32 <marja> there has been miscommunication 19:02:51 <marja> I had misunderstood Thierry's message about missing images 19:03:09 <marja> what he meant were the missing icons 19:03:23 <marja> https://ml.mageia.org/wwsympa-wrapper.fcgi/arc/doc-discuss/2012-03/msg00124.html 19:03:24 <Magbot> [ doc-discuss - Discussions about Mageia documentation - arc_protect ] 19:04:06 <marja> so we should have the type of html files we started with, and only add the icons 19:04:53 <MrsBTest> i think it is note.png and tip.png, I thought we could maybe borrow some from wikipedia for now 19:05:04 <marja> as a reminder, the files and paragraphs we need are listed below in this mail https://ml.mageia.org/wwsympa-wrapper.fcgi/arc/doc-discuss/2012-03/msg00114.html 19:05:05 <Magbot> [ doc-discuss - Discussions about Mageia documentation - arc_protect ] 19:05:45 <obgr_seneca> MrsBTest: Or use oxygen icons? 19:05:48 <marja> MrsBTest: yes, thank you for mentioning it.... I hope someone will find icons of the same size that we can be sure of can be used ccbyca 19:06:06 <MrsBTest> we found the acftual icons from mdv but i would imagine they are copyright too 19:06:07 <marja> because I'm not sure about the ones from Mdv 19:06:14 <marja> yep 19:06:24 <MrsBTest> they originals are 52x52 and are scaled to 25px in the html 19:06:55 <marja> who volunteers to find new ones? 19:07:19 <MrsBTest> i dont mind 19:07:30 <marja> MrsBTest: great :) 19:07:31 <obgr_seneca> Has anyone looked through the Oxygen icon theme? 19:07:52 <MrsBTest> no, sorry obgr_seneca, ddn't mean to ignore you 19:07:53 <marja> #action MrsBTest will find icons that aren't copyrighted 19:08:04 <sebsebseb> have you started the meeting properly? 19:08:22 <doktor5000> sebsebseb: yep 19:08:28 <sebsebseb> didn't see the start command could be since when I came in 19:08:47 <doktor5000> sebsebseb: was 1 min. before ;) 19:08:51 <sebsebseb> oh ok :) 19:09:00 <doktor5000> when we're at copyright stuff, what about that license discussion that came up again with boklm? 19:09:10 <obgr_seneca> MrsBTest: oxygen icons are CC-by-SA and we use Oxygen throughout the distro 19:09:17 <obgr_seneca> so it would be kind of ideal 19:09:34 <MrsBTest> i'll check them tmrw 19:10:00 <marja> doktor5000: boklm said he had seen enough when he had seen that all the documentation in Calenco had that Mdv licence 19:11:01 <marja> doktor5000: I think he called the stuff "proprietary" 19:12:01 <doktor5000> marja: i got the impression that by some clause all that documentation, also from 2005le, was copyrighted and so we couldn't use it, did i misread that maybe? 19:13:48 <marja> doktor5000: there was something mal formulated, about the printed form of the documentation..... simonnzg said that in Englisch, printed can mean on a CD, too 19:14:47 <marja> doktor5000: and there was more wrong, I don't exactly remember what..... but what at least it boils down to, is that it isn't cc-by-sa at all 19:15:18 <marja> and our documentation should be cc-by-sa 19:15:35 <marja> above that, there were some parts with a different licence 19:16:52 <marja> anyway, now that we have started to work with Calenco and have gotten a little bit used to it, it isn't such a big deal anymore to start from scratch.... 19:16:58 <doktor5000> marja: as that license thread just ended without result, what the status quo? can the current work be used for mageia 2 and it needs to be written from scratch for mageia 3 or am i totally off here? 19:17:11 <marja> in the end it might even save time 19:17:50 <marja> doktor5000: good question, I forgot to ask rda to make sure, but I think you are correct 19:18:57 <MrsBTest> I think a liberal rewording and minor restructuring would be enough to differentiate what we have from the originals 19:18:57 <marja> doktor5000: if it had been illegal to use it, it wouldn't have been added in Mga2b2 19:19:06 <doktor5000> well, writing from scratch and taking the best of existing documentation VS improving/proofreading existing documentation, don't underestimate the time needed to write good documentation from scratch ... 19:19:15 <doktor5000> MrsBTest: +1 19:19:30 <MrsBTest> the complete manual though is a different matter 19:20:12 <marja> MrsBTest: I agree, for instance making a list of something that is a bunch of "Note"s now 19:20:59 <MrsBTest> regarding the manual we can use it as a reference to take ideas from but rewrite it in our own words 19:21:16 <MrsBTest> and update it by doing so 19:21:37 <marja> and I was afraid to use Mdv id tags, but that is nothing to be afraid of, since the tags are only there in Calenco, you can't see them anymore once the files are converted to html 19:21:44 <MrsBTest> the manual is something to worry about after the release though i think 19:21:51 <marja> MrsBTest: sure 19:23:15 <marja> and because rda said it should be something anyone could work on, I propose (Simon, was that your idea?) to let only the versions that are packaged count as versions 19:23:54 <marja> but let all the different versions of files we have in Calenco not count 19:24:01 <MrsBTest> i don't understand marja 19:24:24 <marja> MrsBTest: rda said anyone should be able to work on the Manual 19:24:33 <MrsBTest> yep got that bit 19:24:50 <marja> MrsBTest: that would mean we should allow anyone to use Calenco..... 19:24:59 <MrsBTest> ok 19:25:24 <marja> some good willing people can screw things up 19:25:36 <MrsBTest> ie. me 19:25:49 <marja> no, I'm not talking about you 19:25:54 <obgr_seneca> Now, rda's opinion is not god given 19:26:06 <MrsBTest> i will tho :D 19:26:16 <obgr_seneca> like the packager team does not let anyone fool arround in svn... 19:26:22 <marja> obgr_seneca: he said it was the policy of Mageia..... 19:26:46 <marja> obgr_seneca: that is why I prefer to let only the svn versions count 19:27:16 <MrsBTest> what do you mean with the versions? 19:27:18 <obgr_seneca> I will read that up and talk with rda 19:27:23 <marja> obgr_seneca: OK 19:27:47 <marja> MrsBTest: everytime you upload a file to Calenco, its version number changes..... 19:27:54 <MrsBTest> yes 19:27:55 <obgr_seneca> can anyone give me a link to that discussion with rda? 19:28:11 <marja> MrsBTest: obgr_seneca that was here, IIRC 19:28:35 <obgr_seneca> ok 19:28:53 <marja> obgr_seneca: that was here, I think, I'll try to find that discussion and mail it to you 19:29:06 <obgr_seneca> ok 19:30:28 <marja> #action: marja mail the discussion with rda about every version (including history of old versions) of Calenco files needing to be available for anybody to obgr_seneca 19:30:52 <obgr_seneca> thx 19:30:56 <marja> yw :) 19:31:51 <marja> Does anyone have anymore to say about this topic? 19:32:24 * Led43_Mag2 not here 19:32:28 <marja> I forgot an action 19:32:56 <obgr_seneca> marja: it's still time 19:33:36 <marja> #action marja check with rda and ennael whether it is OK to enhance the Mdv installer documentation for Mga2, and do the real starting from scratch after that 19:34:16 <marja> #topic the wiki 19:34:27 <MrsBTest> from scratch only means different from before 19:34:44 <obgr_seneca> about the wiki 19:34:45 <marja> obgr_seneca: I know you've been ill, but you had ideas about the German wiki opening 19:35:06 <obgr_seneca> the de wiki is up and running, although I didn't make it public yet 19:35:10 <marja> MrsBTest: yep :) 19:35:21 <marja> obgr_seneca: :) 19:35:28 <obgr_seneca> I'd like to have intrawiki links first and asked the sysadmins for some help 19:35:41 <marja> nice! 19:36:16 <obgr_seneca> What I want is the possibility to link to [[en:Main page]] when wanting to add a link to the English main page 19:36:35 <marja> looks good https://wiki.mageia.org/de/Hauptseite 19:36:39 <obgr_seneca> It should be doable by a few database entries... 19:37:05 <obgr_seneca> the current German main page is only a copy of the English one 19:37:18 <obgr_seneca> and not even completely translated :/ 19:37:40 <obgr_seneca> But I will do that and as soon as I have those intrawiki links, I make it public 19:37:45 <marja> obgr_seneca: someone will come along and translate it :) 19:37:54 <obgr_seneca> But I have some things about the en wiki: 19:38:23 <obgr_seneca> #info we have ~90 missing files in the wiki 19:38:40 <obgr_seneca> #info we have ~200 missing pages in the wiki 19:39:12 <obgr_seneca> I am afraid, there were some blind imports being made... 19:39:51 <marja> obgr_seneca: I did some, when we thought we had only a few days before the Mdv wiki disappearing :( 19:40:01 <obgr_seneca> I will try and clean that a bit the next days 19:40:13 <obgr_seneca> If others can help: you are welcome 19:40:31 <marja> obgr_seneca: do you know whether dead links of files that were moved to the archive, still count as missing pages? 19:40:36 <obgr_seneca> #action all non calenco people: please do some cleaning work on the wiki 19:40:53 <obgr_seneca> marja: I check it 19:40:55 <sebsebseb> cleaning working on the wikii? 19:40:59 <doktor5000> obgr_seneca: 200 missing pages as in broken links, or how did you measure? 19:41:00 <sebsebseb> cleaning work 19:41:02 <marja> obgr_seneca: thanks 19:41:20 <Led43_Mag2> there is also pages being added that are never being completed 19:41:37 <obgr_seneca> doktor5000: https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Special:WantedPages 19:42:59 <obgr_seneca> And pages being written several times with only little changes in the titles 19:43:06 <doktor5000> obgr_seneca: i see many links from language categories which come from imported mdv-wiki pages, where many pages contain multiple language-links ... 19:43:34 <obgr_seneca> doktor5000: Yes, but those should be cleaned on import 19:43:57 <doktor5000> also IMHO we should try to avoid pages with a single purpose like https://wiki.mageia.org/en/How_to_rebuild_a_buggy_package_from_Cauldron 19:44:12 <doktor5000> obgr_seneca: s/should/should have been/ yes, you're right 19:44:27 <obgr_seneca> doktor5000: +1 19:44:39 <sebsebseb> obgr_seneca: your example is that one of Umeaboy 's pages? 19:45:03 <sebsebseb> oh that was meant for doktor5000 19:45:11 <marja> obgr_seneca: I forgot to ask you....... 19:45:22 <obgr_seneca> marja: yes? 19:45:56 <doktor5000> sebsebseb: yep it, is, and that one is totally pointless as-is, it should be integrated in existing packager documentation, where it belongs 19:46:04 <marja> Umeaboy still wants to help, I promised him to ask you whether he could use the test wiki to write his pages..... 19:46:04 <doktor5000> sebsebseb: also the title is just wrong/misleading 19:46:13 <sebsebseb> on the subject of WIKI, maybe there should be some sort of guidlines for adding pages or something, I mean at the moment it seems people, just add whatever pages they want, and then also a lot of them aren't known about by loads of people as well 19:46:23 <marja> so that they can be checked before they are imported into our wiki 19:46:45 <obgr_seneca> marja: I think so 19:47:15 <doktor5000> marja: well, maybe add a category <Pending for Review> which is added to every new empty page to get an easy overview? 19:47:25 <marja> obgr_seneca: thx 19:47:58 <doktor5000> we should not block people from writing stuff, but we should be able to get an overview what people have written (somehow) 19:48:09 <marja> doktor5000: boklm was not very pleased when he saw umeaboy had imported a page without any reference whatsoever to the original one 19:48:26 <marja> and he wiped the page 19:48:36 <sebsebseb> I think Umeaboy wants to help with the wiki, but that he could do with some proper guidance from someone, when it comes to this 19:49:00 <obgr_seneca> he is a bit difficult to handle.... 19:49:25 <Led43_Mag2> he can be too keen and does not finish what he starts 19:49:27 <marja> but he is good willing 19:49:30 <obgr_seneca> and boklm seems not to like him at all.... 19:50:03 <sebsebseb> obgr_seneca: uh this is gonig to get publically logged this meeting hmm 19:50:17 <sebsebseb> some people don't seem to like him, but he just wants to help with Mageia really 19:50:31 <marja> sebsebseb: most people only read the summary of the meeting 19:51:04 <obgr_seneca> and I'm only stating things that can be seen in the dev channel quite often :D 19:51:21 <marja> anyway... when Umeaboy has written a page in the test wiki, who are willing to review it? 19:51:30 <sebsebseb> obgr_seneca: well I have seen it myself that boklm doesn't seem to like him that much 19:51:41 <Led43_Mag2> but if people are creating more work than help then we may have to do some thing 19:51:53 <obgr_seneca> let's move on,though 19:52:00 <doktor5000> well, FWIW i can't say i don't like him, but just willing is not not enough 19:52:04 <obgr_seneca> I can review those pages 19:52:11 <doktor5000> do or not do, as yoda would say :) 19:52:20 <marja> obgr_seneca: thanks :) 19:52:43 <sebsebseb> obgr_seneca: yep good, you will know if his advice in the wiki pages, is good or bad 19:53:50 <marja> #action obgr_seneca gives Umeaboy credentials for the test wiki, and obgr_seneca will review Umeaboy's pages 19:53:52 <ennael> clea 19:54:03 <sebsebseb> there's a test wiki? 19:54:06 <obgr_seneca> hi anne 19:54:21 <obgr_seneca> sebsebseb: I set one up, when we started with the new wiki 19:54:24 <ennael> oups 19:54:28 <obgr_seneca> sebsebseb: nothing official 19:54:29 <doktor5000> ennael: :) 19:54:51 <sebsebseb> obgr_seneca: oh so Umeaboy could start making pages first on the test wiki, and then if they are ok, they can be put on the real wiki? 19:55:00 <obgr_seneca> ennael: any comments? 19:55:04 <obgr_seneca> sebsebseb: yes 19:55:09 <sebsebseb> ok sounds good :) 19:55:12 <marja> do we have anything else about the wiki? 19:55:26 <ennael> obgr_seneca: just wrong console sorry 19:55:32 <marja> np 19:55:37 <obgr_seneca> ah 19:55:43 <doktor5000> ennael: ideal excuse: you were just looking for oliver with some matches behind your back, if he behaves ok 19:55:48 <marja> grinz 19:56:11 <ennael> :) 19:56:15 <obgr_seneca> ok, anything else on topic? 19:56:38 <sebsebseb> the test wiki maybe other people should use that first in the future as well not just Umeaboy 19:56:59 <marja> sebsebseb: we'll keep that in mind 19:57:10 <sebsebseb> marja: ok good :) 19:57:18 <marja> next item 19:57:41 <marja> #topic how is everyone doing 19:58:00 <simonnzg> Very well, thank you ;-) 19:58:06 <sebsebseb> good :) 19:58:09 <MrsBTest> sleeeeepy 19:58:18 <sebsebseb> I am ok 19:58:19 <obgr_seneca> aside from still having that flu... 19:58:23 <sebsebseb> or feeling good :D 19:58:30 <marja> :) 19:58:45 <Led43_Mag2> all the diods in my left arm ache 19:58:45 <sebsebseb> marja: I think you meant with doc team stuff really though :) 19:58:59 <marja> Led43_Mag2: ouch 19:59:15 <marja> sebsebseb: not only that 19:59:19 <sebsebseb> oh ok 19:59:21 <obgr_seneca> Led43_Mag2: As long as you are not several times older then the universe 19:59:39 <marja> times are rather hectic in Mageia atm.... 19:59:46 <sebsebseb> oh? 20:00:01 <marja> I'm aware I don't hear everything that's being said to me.... 20:00:20 <marja> so if anyone has the feeling he or she isn't heard... 20:00:39 <marja> please poke me until I do hear 20:01:04 <sebsebseb> marja: well you read it on here :D, but I know what you meant :) 20:01:09 <marja> sebsebseb: there are very many bugs to be fixed for Mga 2 stable 20:02:10 <marja> but apart from MrsBTest being sleepy (sleep very well tonight, MrsBTest :) ) 20:02:12 <doktor5000> well, we need some more documentation for/to avoid support issues, but there are not that much people involved in forums, and the wiki isn't so visible yet, IMHO 20:02:23 <MrsBTest> thanks marja 20:02:41 <doktor5000> but this was partly discussed in last council meeting AFAIK (for the forum part) 20:02:54 <sebsebseb> Seems the packagers are doing a good job at pushing packagers and so on :). Artwork has installer slide show images to sort out. Docs team is doing alright from what I have seen :). MrsBTest is probably doing good with QA as well :). 20:03:03 <simonnzg> How about the Mandriva documentation imported onto the wiki? Has a decision been made about it?? 20:03:35 <MrsBTest> QA is lagging a bit actually with the new ISO pre-release testing, there is a bit of abacklog 20:03:37 <sebsebseb> packages above 20:03:40 <obgr_seneca> simonnzg: as long as it's good and we can use it, it's ok 20:03:43 <marja> simonnzg: no, all the time there are new developments 20:03:59 <marja> simonnzg: and Mdv is still alive 20:04:05 <sebsebseb> MrsBTest: new ISO testing, you mean the Live CD's and so on I assume 20:04:06 <doktor5000> sebsebseb: well, we could still do better in every area, we shouldn't get lazy, lots of room for improvements everywhere 20:04:49 <MrsBTest> beta 2 ISO's sebsebseb, the dvd's last week and beta 1 not long ago, they take a week out of our mga1 qa time 20:05:33 <sebsebseb> MrsBTest: I am waiting for new Live CD's for 2 :) 20:05:38 <sebsebseb> anyway back on topic :) 20:05:48 <marja> sebsebseb: I think you asked for doc team assistance for your team in council meeting yesterday... I had fallen asleep, do you still need that? 20:06:19 <sebsebseb> my team :D well yeah now it is as well more so, since became the deputy leader more recently :) 20:06:27 <sebsebseb> yeah I thought you had gone to sleep or something 20:06:47 <sebsebseb> it was to do with the release notes for Mageia 2, I thought docs team would be good at helping with them as well, not just marketing 20:06:55 <marja> meetings shouldn't last past 20h UTC 20:07:08 <sebsebseb> yeah that was a rather long council meeting yesterday 20:07:34 <obgr_seneca> well I think doc team is the one not being involved with release notes 20:07:46 <sebsebseb> also come to think of it for release notes, I think MrsBTest and other QA people should be invovled with that probably? 20:07:50 <obgr_seneca> in my eyes, it's packager and marcomm for the most 20:07:55 <sebsebseb> since it's about any known about issues and so on 20:08:19 <sebsebseb> obgr_seneca: well release notes are sort of documentation as well 20:08:19 <obgr_seneca> sebsebseb: don't mix release notes and errata 20:08:27 <MrsBTest> sebsebseb: QA just find them , its up to packagers what they do about them. I agree with obgr_seneca 20:08:55 * Led43_Mag2 seconds that 20:08:55 <obgr_seneca> I think packagers write the release notes and marcomm refines them 20:08:59 <sebsebseb> obgr_seneca: that's a point I could be doing that, ok the errata loads of differnet memebers of differnet teams could help with that :) 20:09:04 <obgr_seneca> no need to get more people involved 20:09:13 <sebsebseb> obgr_seneca: ok sounds good for the release notes 20:09:15 * doktor5000 feels guilty for not having contributed his parts to release notes yet :/ 20:09:34 <sebsebseb> as for the erratta though, well docs could help with that a bit for example and QA as well 20:09:34 <MrsBTest> It wouldn't hurt for doc team to proofread them before they are finalised 20:09:36 <obgr_seneca> and the errata are mainly writen by the packagers in question 20:09:40 <obgr_seneca> they know best 20:09:56 <marja> doktor5000: stop! you've contributed so much helping so many users and others! 20:09:57 <sebsebseb> MrsBTest: the release notes I assume you mean, and that sounds good :) 20:10:39 <MrsBTest> release notes/errata, wouldn't hurt to proofread them both 20:10:40 <sebsebseb> ok so docs team can help with the erratta, and proof read the release notes as well, sounds good to me :) 20:10:40 <obgr_seneca> if you want to pull doc team in by force, do, but I don't see the point 20:11:11 * Led43_Mag2 thinks doc team has enough work to do 20:11:12 <MrsBTest> nothing doc team can help with sebsebseb other than proofreading. 20:11:19 <doktor5000> marja: well this still needs to get in release notes, as also other packagers don't play well with visibility 20:11:20 * marja was anything wrong with the release notes we have had so far? 20:11:27 <obgr_seneca> and since errata is a living document, I'm not sure, it makes sense "proofreading" very much 20:11:31 <sebsebseb> really whoever helps with the release notes or errata isn't that important, what's important is that we have good release notes and erratta :) 20:11:45 <marja> doktor5000: which "this" 20:11:47 <marja> ? 20:11:58 <sebsebseb> obgr_seneca: that's true the erratta can be changed it's on the wiki 20:12:06 <MrsBTest> only proofreading necessary is before public release 20:12:11 <doktor5000> marja: f.ex. the switch to firefox/thunderbird ESR, and what that means for users, mentioned nowhere so far among many other changes between mga1 release and mga2 20:12:35 <marja> doktor5000: ouch...... 20:12:39 <sebsebseb> MrsBTest: if you want to help a bit with the release notes and erratta sounds good to me 20:12:41 <doktor5000> marja: as those are visible and huge changes, but not documented anywhere except for -dev ml, which no end-user reads 20:12:48 <obgr_seneca> doktor5000: to be honest the maintainers should note such things about their packages 20:12:58 <MrsBTest> sebsebseb: when you say 'help' i think you are thinking of something dofferent than me 20:12:59 <obgr_seneca> They are the ones who know 20:13:10 <sebsebseb> MrsBTest: I mean proof read :) 20:13:15 <marja> obgr_seneca: dmorgan is very busy, so is doktor5000 20:13:17 <doktor5000> obgr_seneca: they don't even do in changelog or version tag, don't expect too much 20:13:22 <MrsBTest> sebsebseb: yes, but only when it is finalised 20:14:01 * sebsebseb thinks marcom will be alright with the release notes anyway, since we have Trish and other members of the team to help with them 20:14:03 <obgr_seneca> doktor5000: marja: yes, but it needs only a few minutes to make those notes per person 20:14:32 <marja> obgr_seneca: more when you've worked hard and your mind needs to be cleared 20:14:38 <obgr_seneca> and it doesn't work for others who don't know all that stuff to try and do it 20:14:50 <marja> obgr_seneca: that is true 20:14:57 <obgr_seneca> but that is no discussion for this meeting 20:15:15 * marja thinks we are finished with our topics :) 20:15:23 <MrsBTest> one more 20:15:27 <marja> MrsBTest: yes? 20:15:32 <sebsebseb> MrsBTest: oh ok 20:15:38 <lebarhon> Yes, for Mageia2, it should a good thing if release notes and errata were is different languages 20:15:48 * sebsebseb agree's with lebarhon 20:16:10 <MrsBTest> simons wiki extension - still waiting for sysadmin. I asked for any feedback on th ebug but no response yet. 20:16:13 <obgr_seneca> lebarhon: release notes for Mga1 were completely translated 20:16:14 <sebsebseb> obgr_seneca: that's more work for your team though ^ 20:16:45 <lebarhon> obgr_seneca: in the wiki ? 20:17:23 <lebarhon> but there is no French wiki for example, at least not official 20:18:20 <marja> lebarhon: but when you translate it, you can offer it to the MLO wiki? 20:18:21 <obgr_seneca> lebarhon: http://www.mageia.org/fr/1/notes/ 20:18:22 <Magbot> [ Notes de version de Mageia 1 ] 20:18:40 <marja> nice 20:18:51 <simonnzg> MrsBTest: I saw that. Thanks! 20:19:00 <MrsBTest> :) 20:19:42 <MrsBTest> It's nto forgotten simon, they're just snowed under 20:19:54 <marja> MrsBTest: simonnzg: maybe we should ask boklm after his holiday 20:20:09 <obgr_seneca> ok, shall we end the meeting then? 20:20:16 <marja> yes, good idea :) 20:20:17 <sebsebseb> ok with me 20:20:19 <MrsBTest> ok 20:20:36 <marja> #endmeeting