19:07:54 <obgr_seneca> #startmeeting 19:07:54 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Tue Nov 29 19:07:54 2011 UTC. The chair is obgr_seneca. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:07:54 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:08:10 <obgr_seneca> #chair ennael 19:08:10 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: ennael obgr_seneca 19:09:18 <obgr_seneca> ok, first of all let me excuse myself for not being here last week and not writing a mail about it 19:09:33 <obgr_seneca> There was an urgent meeting irl I had to attend 19:09:53 <marja> excuse accepted :) 19:10:43 <obgr_seneca> Now, first to the wiki, then the longer stuff 19:10:53 <obgr_seneca> #topic wiki documentation 19:11:23 <obgr_seneca> I think we should begin writing some documentation, so maybe others will join us when they see 19:11:46 <obgr_seneca> I think about some stuff about the installer, the mcc and urpmi 19:12:02 <obgr_seneca> Any thoughts on that? 19:12:34 <marja> Yep, it would be good to know whether any changes are planned 19:12:42 <marja> for installer 19:12:46 <marja> and mcc 19:13:38 <obgr_seneca> doktor5000: Do you know anything about the development planing for drakxtools? 19:15:11 <obgr_seneca> Hi Remi 19:15:13 <marja> hi Akien 19:15:23 <Akien> Hi :) 19:15:30 <JohnR> hi Akien 19:15:33 <obgr_seneca> It seems the doc doesn't like me any more 19:16:09 <marja> obgr_seneca: he'll be back ;) 19:16:18 <obgr_seneca> Ok, what do you think about the following plan: 19:16:20 <JohnR> obgr_seneca: Perhaps you should be saying 'Mr Doc' :-) 19:16:34 <marja> grinz 19:16:47 <doktor5000> obgr_seneca: what development planning? you mean realting to the installer? 19:17:25 <doktor5000> only thing i know is that the help buttons should have been removed for mga1 installer, IIRC 19:17:48 <obgr_seneca> ok 19:18:00 <marja> they were and I didn't see them in Mga2Alpha1 19:18:00 <obgr_seneca> I will just begin writing some doc about the installer based on the alpha1 installer and we can adapt it 19:18:07 <obgr_seneca> Ok? 19:18:10 <JohnR> I was under the impression the help was going to be pulled from the mdv 2009 docs 19:18:29 <marja> obgr_seneca: OK 19:19:09 <obgr_seneca> If somebody else should find it in his heart to document whatever, please do 19:19:14 <Akien> JohnR: That's what I understood too. 19:20:24 <obgr_seneca> Any comments about documentation in the wiki 19:21:12 <marja> no, only that it seems we can't use mdv 2009 docs 19:21:37 <marja> because of: "substantively modified versions" not being allowed without permission from Mdv 19:22:15 <obgr_seneca> ok, no comment about the wiki it seams 19:22:28 <obgr_seneca> so let's go on 19:22:30 <doktor5000> i'll try to begin migrating the MAQeia from the forums to the wiki, and try to add some more (i.e. look at the teamviewer thread on -dev) 19:22:31 <JohnR> the docs at: http://demo.calenco.com/workspaces/Mageia are GPL 19:22:57 <obgr_seneca> #topic installer online help 19:23:31 <marja> doktor5000: thx 19:24:00 <Akien> Online? 19:24:07 <obgr_seneca> ennael: ping 19:24:18 <Akien> Won't we provide help on the DVD? 19:24:27 <obgr_seneca> Not "online" in the meaning of the internet 19:24:50 <obgr_seneca> Online in the meaning of "directly there in the installer" 19:25:05 <obgr_seneca> There must be a better word, JohnR? 19:25:30 <doktor5000> brb, gotta feed some hungry furballs 19:25:32 <JohnR> obgr_seneca: probably 'inline' ? 19:25:38 <obgr_seneca> Ah 19:25:43 <obgr_seneca> #undo 19:25:43 <Inigo_Montoya> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x8644acc> 19:25:52 <obgr_seneca> #topic installer inline help 19:25:56 <obgr_seneca> better? 19:26:00 <Akien> Yep :) 19:26:04 <JohnR> :-) 19:27:00 <obgr_seneca> Ok, so we have to go on alone 19:27:19 <marja> alone? 19:27:26 <doktor5000> go on alone? 19:27:34 <obgr_seneca> without Anne 19:27:37 <marja> ahh 19:27:43 <obgr_seneca> I have to tell you, I don't know anything about that kind of work 19:28:07 <marja> does tv know? 19:28:15 <obgr_seneca> Perhaps JohnR or camil can tell us more about it? 19:28:55 <obgr_seneca> anne said I should ask tv or blino but I didn't get to it today 19:28:58 <JohnR> I don't think the installer has changed a great deal in past few years, so we should be able to get most of the info from earlier mdv releases 19:29:28 <marja> JohnR: some steps were skipped 19:29:45 <doktor5000> actually the installer hasn't changed much except maybe some added diskdrake features/new look and the desktop/package selection 19:30:01 <JohnR> marja: that'sd not a major problem, what we have at Neodoc is modular 19:30:10 <marja> OK :) 19:30:28 <obgr_seneca> The first step will be to look into that docs in Neodoc's calenco 19:30:41 <doktor5000> actually i'd think most of the old doc still applies, maybe some new screenshots, and changing order is enough ... 19:30:45 <JohnR> You all have the credentials? 19:30:58 <doktor5000> me not ... 19:31:02 <JohnR> Yes screenshots will be needed 19:31:20 <obgr_seneca> doc@mageia.org (password: docmageia) 19:31:24 <JohnR> doc@mageia.org (password: docmageia) 19:31:37 <obgr_seneca> IIrc that's a readonly account 19:31:52 <JohnR> http://demo.calenco.com/workspaces/Mageia 19:31:55 <obgr_seneca> For the real work we would need another one 19:32:29 <JohnR> yes it's r/o for the moment, but the content can be exported, simonng has already done this 19:33:31 <JohnR> WE need to get the workspace moved for real work, camil will do this for us once we are decided to use the Neodoc repo 19:33:53 <JohnR> camil: ping? 19:34:02 <doktor5000> actually i think wobo would help with the documenation too (and is already used to it) depending on his health ... 19:34:24 <marja> would be great if wobo can help, too :) 19:34:27 <JohnR> wobo and I are very familiar with that repo :-) 19:34:41 <obgr_seneca> doktor5000: That's the question, but I will sure ask him 19:35:29 <Akien> So the Neodoc's repo contains the doc which was used for Mandrakelinux, IIUC? 19:35:47 <doktor5000> JohnR: what about the license/copyright of all those screenshots, can we reuse generic ones where possible? 19:36:05 <JohnR> Akien: yes, from mdv2005LE - the last gpl set 19:36:23 <marja> does F2 work to make screenshots during install? 19:36:24 <JohnR> docno, we should do frsh ones 19:36:31 <JohnR> fresh 19:36:39 <obgr_seneca> marja: Yep 19:36:41 <doktor5000> JohnR: i thought the 2009 was the last gpl one? 19:37:15 <JohnR> doktor5000: possibly, but we have 2005 afaik 19:37:40 <JohnR> 1 min, I'll recheck license 19:38:12 <obgr_seneca> doktor5000: Someone has found another license on the 2009 stuff that doesn't allow us to redistribute changed versions iirc 19:39:00 <marja> that was only for the version on the free cd's 19:39:04 <JohnR> Mandrakesoft April 2005 http://www.mandrakesoft.com/ Copyright © 1999-2005 by Mandrakesoft S.A. and Mandrakesoft Inc. 19:40:12 <JohnR> there are three chapters in those docs which are NOT gpl - we cannot use those 19:40:19 <obgr_seneca> Ok 19:40:26 <obgr_seneca> Which ones? 19:41:17 <JohnR> obgr_seneca: I don't know the names, but they are not there anyway :-) 19:41:46 <obgr_seneca> Ah, ok 19:42:16 <JohnR> obgr_seneca: you really need to get in there and take a look :-) 19:42:41 <JohnR> obgr_seneca: I know you time is restricted :-) 19:42:47 <JohnR> you>your 19:43:00 <obgr_seneca> I am already in there :D 19:43:07 <JohnR> good man 19:44:27 <obgr_seneca> But I don't really understand what to do in there 19:44:35 <JohnR> look at Manuals pane, gpl-appendix and legal-notice are the important ones at this point 19:45:22 <JohnR> obgr_seneca: click Manuals in left pane, then 'file list in right to see list of manuals 19:46:39 <obgr_seneca> #action everybody make yourself familiar with calenco 19:46:48 <JohnR> echo 19:46:50 <marja> OK :) 19:46:50 <obgr_seneca> Or does anybody have a better idea? 19:47:59 <obgr_seneca> anything else to discuss tonight? 19:48:04 <JohnR> what you see under 'All Files' are ALL the modules used to build the docs to go on the DVDs 19:48:10 <camil> Hello all, I will be unavailable for a few days, please JohnR gather requirements, and i'll see what I can do. 19:48:26 <obgr_seneca> camil: Hi and thanks for telling us 19:48:50 <JohnR> camil: Could I ask Fabian to move the workspace? 19:49:00 <camil> where to? 19:49:10 <JohnR> away from demo? 19:49:25 <marja> obgr_seneca: where can we store the screenshots, if anyone wants to upload some? 19:49:30 <JohnR> or to make it read/write? 19:50:18 <obgr_seneca> I think I have some account with write permissions, but I have to find it 19:50:35 <obgr_seneca> It'sa somewhere on my harddisk, so there's just 500GB to search 19:50:44 <JohnR> lol 19:52:18 <obgr_seneca> let's decide a few things so we can start 19:52:25 <camil> yes we will have to move Calenco to a specific server without proprietary extensions like the XML Editor. Do you want it to be hosted on NeoDoc or Mageia servers? 19:53:04 <obgr_seneca> I have to ask the sysadmins about it 19:53:49 <JohnR> ok, in the meantime would everyone please email a username to me (maybe your mageia-id nick) so we can setup access john AT neodoc DOT biz 19:54:07 <obgr_seneca> Hosting it ourselves would let us use the identity accounts 19:54:23 <obgr_seneca> but I think we can take an external solution as well 19:54:35 <doktor5000> obgr_seneca: do you really want to ask our overworked sysadmins about that? 19:54:53 <obgr_seneca> doktor5000: not really 19:55:04 <JohnR> obgr_seneca: I'm notsure, I think it might be better on Neodocs' server 19:55:18 <obgr_seneca> #action everyone mail "john AT neodoc DOT biz" 19:55:43 <marja> :) 19:55:46 <obgr_seneca> #info let's start on neoDoc server, if that's ok with Neodoc 19:55:57 <JohnR> camil: OK? 19:56:40 <camil> no pb, if you overload our server we'll renegotiate :-) 19:56:43 <obgr_seneca> #action obgr_seneca talk about this with Anne, Thierry and Nlino 19:56:47 <JohnR> lol 19:56:50 <obgr_seneca> #undo 19:56:50 <Inigo_Montoya> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x8647eac> 19:56:56 <obgr_seneca> #action obgr_seneca talk about this with Anne, Thierry and Blino 19:57:05 <obgr_seneca> ok? 19:57:08 <marja> OK 19:57:13 <obgr_seneca> Anything else? 19:57:54 <doktor5000> yes one stupid question 19:58:01 <JohnR> 42 19:58:04 <Akien> :p 19:58:20 <doktor5000> that calenco instance, is that only the installer help or also drakx help? 19:58:54 <marja> it contains a draktools guide 19:59:00 <JohnR> doktor5000: nope, just about everything you need to build a mageia planet 19:59:37 <JohnR> dok, look through the file list to get an idea of what's aready there 20:00:48 <doktor5000> JohnR: just wanted to quickly associate it with the related src.rpms ... 20:01:23 <JohnR> Ahh, there's no direct link to the srpms 20:01:44 <marja> would be nice to have those links :) 20:02:13 <JohnR> true, but I don't think that's possible 20:04:21 <obgr_seneca> Ok, can we stop the meeting for now? 20:04:28 <JohnR> simonnzg: You have any comments after you exploration of the Calenco repo? 20:04:51 <obgr_seneca> I see more learning and less discussion material just now 20:05:15 <JohnR> obgr_seneca: yep lotsa that :-) 20:05:20 <marja> :) 20:05:24 <simonnzg> Woo. Just arrived. 20:05:32 <simonnzg> Reading back... 20:05:47 <marja> hi simonnzg 20:05:52 <simonnzg> Hi 20:06:02 <obgr_seneca> Hi simonnzg 20:06:30 <simonnzg> Hi All. 20:06:53 <JohnR> BTW: Simon is another native EN speaker 20:07:00 <marja> :) 20:07:13 <simonnzg> All I can say is that we have our work cut out. I speak a varian of English. 20:07:20 <JohnR> lol 20:07:21 <simonnzg> variant! 20:07:32 <ennael> obgr_seneca: pong 20:07:45 <JohnR> here she is! 20:07:49 <marja> hi ennael, congratulations 20:07:54 <ennael> thanks :) 20:08:21 <doktor5000> about cutting work, will anyone (from neodoc, preferrably) remove all the stuff that's oboslete now before we start working 20:08:37 <doktor5000> f.ex. about mandrake move, discovery and such things? 20:08:45 <obgr_seneca> Hi ennael 20:09:02 <simonnzg> You can remove sections very easily! 20:09:11 <JohnR> doktor5000: Don't worry about those, we'll sort that out 20:10:16 <obgr_seneca> ennael: we kind of agreed on using calenco 20:10:20 <obgr_seneca> That ok? 20:10:46 <ennael> sure 20:10:51 <doktor5000> ok, and some easy-to-read wiki list what we need to to and add priorities (for now we need only the installer help ASAP, but only after discussing what it takes to reimplement help buttons in the installer) 20:10:55 <ennael> so JohnR is the right guy to help :) 20:11:16 <JohnR> ennael: Who me? :-) 20:11:35 <obgr_seneca> #action obgr_seneca ask wobo to come aboard 20:12:58 <obgr_seneca> #action doktor5000 write an easy-to-read wiki list what we need to do 20:13:01 <obgr_seneca> :D 20:13:49 <JohnR> ennael: How long to next alpha or beta? 20:14:16 <obgr_seneca> Alpha2 in the middle of december 20:14:22 <Akien> doktor5000: Told ya, you shouldn't speak too much when Oliver has the #action thing :p 20:14:48 <obgr_seneca> Akien: be careful :D 20:14:48 <JohnR> obgr_seneca: and first beta? 20:15:11 <Akien> obgr_seneca: Yep, I figured that you would do #action Akien help doktor5000 with the list on the wiki :p 20:15:20 <JohnR> lol 20:15:24 <obgr_seneca> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia_2_development#Development_Planning 20:15:32 <JohnR> ahh, thx 20:16:48 <JohnR> may I suggest we aim to have the installer doc ready for end of December? 20:17:11 <obgr_seneca> Would be good, I think 20:17:25 <obgr_seneca> We won't make it for Alpha2 20:18:09 <JohnR> obgr_seneca: not sure - 2 weeks with learning to use Calenco? - Bit tight I think 20:19:10 <obgr_seneca> JohnR: Better use end of december as deadline and be able to postpone it to middle of january then to put the deadline too near the beta1 20:19:27 <JohnR> yes, exactly my thinking 20:19:29 <obgr_seneca> And I would like to have at least initial docs in beta1 20:19:51 <JohnR> yep 20:21:33 <obgr_seneca> ok 20:21:37 <obgr_seneca> ennael: comments? 20:25:10 <obgr_seneca> ok, let's end the meeting then? 20:25:24 <JohnR> ok by me 20:25:26 <marja> ok 20:25:29 <obgr_seneca> #endmeeting