19:38:08 <ennael> #startmeeting 19:38:08 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Tue Sep 9 19:38:08 2014 UTC. The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:38:08 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:38:38 <ennael> so first topic 19:38:43 <ennael> #topic rpm update 19:39:04 <ennael> as you may have seen on -dev there is a proposal to update rpm for Mageia5. 19:39:22 <ennael> tv gave some details about it and now we have to decide wether we go for it or not 19:39:37 <DavidWHodgins> As discussed in yesterday's council meeting, if it's going to go in before Magea 6, it should go in today. 19:39:46 <ennael> indeed 19:41:01 <coling> I know Luigi12 has his reservations, but I figure before a mass rebuild it makes sense to do it now. 19:41:40 <Luigi12_work> but right before? 19:41:45 <Luigi12_work> we're gonna have enough build problems as it is 19:43:23 <Luigi12_work> ennael: BTW this is the build log I get when I try to build proftpd 1.3.5 http://paste.opensuse.org/54104043 19:43:30 <doktor5000> if we drop all that java mess we'll have less problems and less packages maintained by nobody 19:43:39 <Luigi12_work> lol 19:43:53 <Luigi12_work> well unfortunately much of the Java mess is needed by some things (like libreoffice) 19:44:03 <Luigi12_work> it would be nice to get rid of whatever's not needed 19:44:37 <ennael> I've spoke with dmorgan this afternoon 19:44:50 <ennael> he will start fixing java stack this week 19:45:41 <ennael> anyway back on rpm 19:45:48 <ennael> tmb: any opinion? 19:45:53 <ennael> malo: ? (if around) 19:46:19 <Luigi12_work> tmb posted on the ml 19:46:52 <tmb> well, as I stated on the ml, I think it's worth the risk (famous last words) 19:47:17 <ennael> Luigi12_work: just to get all of them tonight before taking decision 19:47:24 <Luigi12_work> ok 19:49:00 <philippem> for rpm I think we should go 19:49:08 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: There has to be something wrong in a beta release. :-) 19:50:18 <Oro_Valley> hello 19:51:05 <ennael> as a reminder http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.mageia.devel/37709 19:51:06 <[mbot> [ Mageia Linux development mailing-list () ] 19:51:18 <ennael> for those who wants to read all the details 19:51:59 <ennael> the thing is we have a detailed proposal to switch and steps for it. Looks reasonable for me even if not confortable :) 19:53:06 <DavidWHodgins> As long as it's done before the mirror used to create beta 1 is created, I'm ok with it. 19:53:26 * anaselli read it now :) 19:53:39 <Oro_Valley> +1 19:54:18 <anaselli> i think we need to take the risk now, later can be hard to fix 19:54:40 <anaselli> i think tv has a good idea for the roadmap 19:54:51 <DavidWHodgins> Version freeze is today, so it should be done today. 19:54:53 <anaselli> certainly we will have problems :) 19:54:58 <ennael> ok let's vote for those around 19:55:08 <ennael> ok for rpm update 19:55:09 <anaselli> version freeze can help 19:55:21 <anaselli> no more packages during the startup phase :) 19:55:24 <tmb> ok for rpm update 19:55:43 <DavidWHodgins> Ok here, as long as it's done very soon. 19:55:43 <anaselli> perl test could be skipped i would add 19:59:37 <ennael> ok looks like most of people ar ok 19:59:58 <ennael> then we will answer on mail thread and see how to proceed to be on time 20:00:40 * anaselli is far next week :D 20:00:47 <ennael> anything else on this ? 20:01:40 <tmb> well, we need to prepare BS first before pushing rpm-4.12 to cauldron... but that can hopefully be done tonight/tomorrow 20:01:53 <ennael> juste after freeze 20:01:59 <ennael> speaking about freeze 20:02:06 <ennael> #topic version freeze 20:02:23 <ennael> so version freeze is planned for tonight 20:02:32 <ennael> tmb will push the red button soon 20:02:43 <ennael> is version freeze clear for everybody here? 20:02:47 <ennael> what it means 20:03:18 * tmb searches for the button... oooohhh found it... shiny... 20:03:18 <Oro_Valley> last 5 minutes are the most productive ones :) 20:04:04 <ennael> as a reminder, version freeze means no new upstream version of software will be allowed until final release 20:04:06 <anaselli> yeah! we have to bother you for pushing our updates :p 20:04:11 <Luigi12_work> ennael: proftpd 1.3.5 builds if mod_time is dropped. Last upstream release of mod_time is 10 years old. 20:04:31 <ennael> Luigi12_work: outch it's worh submitting it then 20:04:47 <Luigi12_work> ennael: ok, thanks. I assume that's what you wanted when you pinged me 13 hours ago 20:04:56 <Luigi12_work> sorry I didn't see it, netsplit knocked my laptop off IRC 20:04:58 <ennael> yep I tried to build it also 20:05:04 <ennael> so back on freeze 20:05:22 <ennael> you can ask for freeze push but you should have good reason and mail ot on -dev 20:06:11 <ennael> (and beer is not a good reason :p) 20:07:26 <tmb> wait.... what.... 20:07:31 <anaselli> /o\ 20:07:43 <anaselli> tmb: beer for you is ok? :D 20:07:49 <ennael> tsss :) 20:08:02 <ennael> anything else on freeze ? 20:08:19 <Luigi12_work> make sure dmorgan has freeze push capabiliity so he can fix the Java stack 20:08:32 <MrsB> morning dev 20:08:33 <Luigi12_work> I think the core packages are in good shape as far as being up to date, so that's really good 20:08:43 <coling> And ovitters too for gnome stuff. 20:08:47 <ennael> yep great work on this 20:08:50 <Luigi12_work> I think some might have started a little late on their leaf packages...maybe you could be more lenient until the mass rebuild starts 20:08:56 <Luigi12_work> other than that, I think we're good 20:08:59 <Oro_Valley> can we still submit new pacakges? 20:09:04 <Luigi12_work> yes 20:09:08 <ennael> tsss :)yep 20:09:10 <ennael> oups 20:09:13 <Luigi12_work> coling: indeed 20:09:17 <Oro_Valley> I am thinking about samba4 20:09:25 * Luigi12_work sees a pie in the sky 20:09:36 <ennael> blingme: around ? 20:10:35 <ennael> ok let see later 20:10:38 <ennael> #topic mass rebuild and non-building packages 20:10:57 <ennael> so after freeze and rpm update, mass rebuild is planned 20:11:04 <ennael> is pterjan taking care of it ? 20:12:01 <tmb> I think so, but iirc he's still travelling for some days... 20:12:17 <DavidWHodgins> Distro rebuild isn't planned until the 15th. 20:12:37 <ennael> tmb: was not sure as I spoke with him today 20:12:48 <Oro_Valley> would be nice to have a few more daus after rebuild to fix builds 20:12:54 <ennael> DavidWHodgins: yep but things need to be setup before 20:12:59 <Oro_Valley> sorry days 20:13:37 <Oro_Valley> do we have enough hardware resources? 20:13:49 <Oro_Valley> (buildnods) 20:14:10 <Luigi12_work> there's 15 days between the mass rebuild and beta 1, hopefully that's enough time to fix most of the builds we can fix 20:14:19 <Luigi12_work> of course the mass rebuild takes a few days 20:14:22 <tmb> And iirc the rebuild script is stored in svn 20:14:31 <Luigi12_work> hopefully we have another build node we can turn on during the mass rebuild, like we usually do 20:14:39 <Luigi12_work> I guess jonund is still under the weather 20:14:43 <DavidWHodgins> Keep in mind, iso testing takes about a week, so the rebuild has to be finished by then. 20:14:53 <Luigi12_work> yep 20:15:18 <tmb> yep, I'll ping maat about going to DC and re-install sucuk so we get atleast 3 servers building 20:15:38 * doktor5000 will ask ennael: and tmb: for an exception for lxqt 0.8 as soon as they got it out the door 20:16:02 <Luigi12_work> yeah that'll be a really good one to have, people will like that 20:16:46 <DavidWHodgins> doktor5000: Procedure for an exception is to ask on the dev mailing list, with a good explanation of why it should be allowed. 20:17:09 <MrsB> replacinf lxde? 20:17:11 <MrsB> -f+g 20:17:46 <Luigi12_work> I hope so 20:17:57 <ennael> #action reinstall sucuck to get enough node for mass rebuild 20:19:15 <Oro_Valley> lunch is ready, see ya later 20:19:57 <ennael> as a reminder we have also http://check.mageia.org/cauldron/dependencies.html to fix 20:19:59 <[mbot> [ dependencies global report ] 20:21:21 <ennael> looking for the url about mass rebuild 20:22:08 <MrsB> the release planning? 20:22:26 <MrsB> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia_5_Development that one? 20:22:33 <ennael> nope the web site for the report about mass rebuild results 20:22:37 <ennael> broken packages 20:22:40 <MrsB> oh 20:22:50 <ennael> (and a new brain please :p) 20:24:00 <tmb> ennael, you mean this: http://pkgsubmit.mageia.org/autobuild/ ? 20:24:14 <ennael> http://pkgsubmit.mageia.org/autobuild/ 20:24:15 <MrsB> i know the one you mean but can't find it either 20:24:20 <ennael> raa :) 20:24:23 <ennael> thanks tmb :) 20:24:58 * pterjan present 20:25:11 <ennael> :) we were speaking about mass rebuild 20:25:18 <ennael> can you handle it for next week ? 20:25:35 <pterjan> probably 20:25:40 <pterjan> flying back on saturday 20:26:04 <ennael> that would be great 20:26:32 <pterjan> one thing I have to mention, I tried getting the java stack updatedas it's quite broken but made slow progress :( 20:27:17 <ennael> as said previously, dmorgan will start on it in coming days 20:27:18 <pterjan> I want to have at least javapackage-tools before the rebuild and currently the tests fail 20:27:22 <pterjan> ok 20:27:37 <Luigi12_work> it's hard to progress quickly when there's what, 2000 of those packages? 20:27:37 <ennael> I'll tell him about javapackage-tools 20:28:05 <tmb> "rm -f" is fast :) 20:28:12 <Luigi12_work> :D 20:28:27 <pterjan> well when the core are fixed, most should rebuild nicely :) 20:29:04 <ennael> ok dmorgan noticed about javapackage-tools 20:29:14 <ennael> anything else on mass rebuild ? 20:29:37 <pterjan> not really, would be great to have sucuk back but not mandatory 20:29:49 <pterjan> also switching to the new valstar would be great but unlikely 20:30:15 <ennael> mail sent by tmb about sucuck to ask maat for it 20:30:25 <pterjan> great 20:31:06 <ennael> ok last topic then 20:31:08 <tmb> pterjan, the other option would then be to pull new valstar in as a node temporarily 20:31:33 <ennael> what about rabbit ? 20:31:46 <tmb> rabbit is working as a node right now 20:31:50 <pterjan> true 20:31:51 <ennael> ok 20:32:03 <Luigi12_work> slowly 20:32:05 <pterjan> sounds like a good idea 20:33:43 <ennael> next topic ? 20:34:16 <tmb> yep 20:35:05 <ennael> #topic features progress 20:35:24 <pterjan> also just thinking about it, I can run an autobuild on the new valstar today 20:35:38 <pterjan> as current results are quite old 20:35:45 <Luigi12_work> that'd help 20:36:14 <tmb> yeah, lets put new valstar to some good use 20:37:37 <malo> hi, sorry I'm late 20:37:49 <ennael> malo: then you manage the last topic :) 20:37:54 <malo> was having lunch with pterjan 20:38:04 <malo> he talks so much :-) 20:38:10 <pterjan> :) 20:38:31 <ennael> (pb is not talking it's joking) 20:38:43 <malo> ennael: give me a minute to read the logs to see where we're at 20:38:58 <ennael> we are just starting on features topic 20:39:04 <anaselli> malo: just read the topic :p 20:39:27 <Luigi12_work> ouch 20:40:56 <malo> ok features progress ... 20:40:57 <anaselli> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/FeatureMageia5_Review ? 20:41:06 <malo> Was there any progress made? 20:41:47 <anaselli> from my side adminpanel has been released 20:42:30 <malo> ankh: yes, thanks for that! 20:42:48 <malo> anaselli: thanks 20:43:13 <malo> ennael: progress on btrfs 20:43:15 <malo> ? 20:43:27 <ennael> yep pterjan can speak about it 20:43:47 <malo> (the power of delegation :-)) 20:43:48 <pterjan> not much, I did an install with / over btrfs and rebooted 20:44:04 <pterjan> it worked, nothing more done 20:44:15 <pterjan> I can switch it and let the bug reports flow :-P 20:44:34 <pterjan> main problem is that we have only simple support 20:44:59 <pterjan> like we don't offer toinstall ona snapshot, etc 20:45:20 <pterjan> and we haveno UI for any interesting feature 20:45:33 <pterjan> so we don't give much benefit for switching 20:46:12 <malo> is it reasonable to switch to it by default then? 20:46:41 <pterjan> not sure 20:47:00 <anaselli> not sure... or sure not :D 20:47:17 <DavidWHodgins> I'm inclined to say wait until at least Mageia 6. 20:47:24 <pterjan> well my home is on btrfs which is nice 20:47:25 <Luigi12_work> agreed 20:47:35 <Luigi12_work> we should go through a whole devel cycle with it, and have some UI and features for it 20:47:39 <pterjan> but I doubt many people would see any advantage without more integration 20:47:43 <Luigi12_work> otherwise what's the reason for the switch? 20:47:49 <pterjan> agree 20:48:16 <Luigi12_work> we should be able to steal stuff from opensuse 20:49:26 <malo> ok. Let's postpone that to mga6 20:49:31 <malo> ennael: sorry 20:50:36 <MrsB> i think would do well if combined with a move to grub2 20:50:37 <malo> Other features are about kdedm (neoclust) 20:50:59 <malo> and phonon 20:51:11 <malo> anyone from the kde team around? 20:51:12 <tmb> yeah, I guess we maybe should focus on getting installs on btrfs work oob for mga5, but not default to it until mga6 20:51:33 <Luigi12_work> switch to phonon-vlc by default is completed as I understand 20:51:41 <malo> Luigi12_work: yes. 20:51:54 <Luigi12_work> phonon packages were updated this weekend, except not the ones that require gstreamer 1.0, that'll wait for mga 6 20:52:11 <Luigi12_work> sddm is packaged, still a work in progress as far as perfecting it 20:52:30 <Luigi12_work> not sure if we'll be able to drop KDM, but we've got more testing to do 20:52:32 <malo> Luigi12_work: not yet by default for kde installs 20:52:51 <Luigi12_work> what isn't yet default? 20:52:53 <DavidWHodgins> MrsB: Why move to grub2? 20:53:17 <malo> is kdm still default for KDE installs? 20:53:25 <Luigi12_work> grub2 seems like needless complication to me. I think coling has stated the same 20:53:34 <Luigi12_work> malo: yes, kdm is still the default DM 20:53:56 <DavidWHodgins> Luigi12_work: Agreed. I see no need for it on on uefi systems. 20:53:59 <Luigi12_work> sddm should be the default for an LxQt install 20:54:13 <Luigi12_work> also for plasma 5 20:54:17 <Oro_Valley> if you use btrfs for / you need grub2? 20:54:36 <MrsB> yes, or separate /boot 20:54:54 <Luigi12_work> don't see much point of a btrfs /boot though 20:55:18 <Luigi12_work> but yes the installer should know to use grub2 if you configure it yourself without a separate /boot 20:55:20 * coling nods on grub2, but that doens't mean we can't use it in a simplistic way. Stripped down it's functional at least. I'm mainly proposing we simplify things greatly by default and don't give much in the way of options, but this requires both approval and finding time to actually do the work which is proving just as hard! 20:55:21 <pterjan> Luigi12_work: not having separate /boot 20:55:29 <pterjan> yes itnow knows 20:55:33 <Luigi12_work> ahh good 20:55:36 <pterjan> wellit will in next instalelr release :P 20:55:43 <pterjan> it knows in git :) 20:55:57 <Oro_Valley> ond grub2 on the rescue as well? 20:56:00 * ennael will offer some new fingers to pterjan :p 20:58:45 <tmb> well, if we decide to do the "UEFI" fat /boot layout by default on all installs bootloader handling will be simpler... and hide advanced setups behind some "expert YMMW mode" 20:59:45 <Luigi12_work> what about the idea that a subdir of /boot could be FAT instead? 20:59:55 <Luigi12_work> the idea of /boot itself being FAT just blows my mind (in a bad way) 21:00:09 * pterjan doesn't see the difference 21:01:02 <malo> can we postpone btrfs to ... a later meeting? 21:01:23 <malo> news on samba4? 21:01:36 <Luigi12_work> we pinged blingme earlier, but no response :o( 21:01:49 <DavidWHodgins> malo: Version freeze is today, so if it's going to go into the installer, it should be done today. 21:01:53 <MrsB> diogenese may know too 21:02:13 <DavidWHodgins> I'm not in favour of making it the default yet. 21:02:25 <Luigi12_work> samba4 can still be done later, it hasn't been built yet. SVN last updated several months ago 21:02:37 <tmb> yeah, and before mga4 he said he had srpm almost ready, but he didn't want to give that out back then either... 21:02:37 <Luigi12_work> blingme's been saying he'd update what he's got into SVN, but hasn't yet 21:02:50 <Luigi12_work> tmb: indeed :o( 21:02:56 <Luigi12_work> it's like vaporware 21:03:26 <malo> diogenese interacted with him about xymon 21:03:38 <MrsB> oh that's right, sorry 21:03:44 <DavidWHodgins> As it's a new package, not a version upgrade, it has until 2014/10/28 to get in. 21:03:50 <diogenese> Very little. Only on the ml and haven't heard anything since. 21:03:56 <tmb> I wuold have liked to use it as he usually have done a good job on samba, but I dont think we can wait forever... 21:04:12 <Luigi12_work> yeah, I'd like to set up a backup domain controller at work with it 21:05:33 <Luigi12_work> might have to use CentOS :o( 21:06:03 <malo> can someone ping him more strongly? 21:06:22 <MrsB> time for matches? 21:06:25 <malo> or a volunteer to work on it? 21:06:29 <Luigi12_work> water balloon sent by carrier pidgeon? 21:06:31 <diogenese> Use a ping hammer? 21:06:58 <leuhmanu> there was also an 'apprentice' news from him (for samba4) 21:07:00 <leuhmanu> ? 21:07:01 <Luigi12_work> we've had someone in IRC and maybe the ml (can't remember) express interest in helping package it, but it's a new packager 21:07:50 <Luigi12_work> I can't imagine it'd be *too* overly difficult to just adapt Fedora's to Mageia packaging, but the question is would that be "good enough" 21:08:05 <Luigi12_work> I guess some added libification would probably need to be done 21:09:08 <malo> what do we do about the feature? 21:09:21 <Luigi12_work> pray? 21:10:01 <tmb> switch it to a "provide samba4" 21:10:20 <anaselli> If you don't have any question on adminpanel &co... i would go to bed... i'm pretty tired 21:10:21 <tmb> and move "integration/upgrade" to mga6 feature 21:10:29 <malo> tmb: sounds good 21:10:30 <Luigi12_work> agreed on that 21:10:34 <malo> I'll edit the feature. 21:10:51 <MrsB> out of 5 new features, we're cancelling one and downgrading another 21:11:35 <tmb> yeah, it sucks but if no-one want / have time to work on the features... 21:12:32 <malo> Yep, I'm not sure the feature system is working well 21:12:39 <malo> coling: network tools? 21:14:02 <coling> I've done very little work on it sadly :( 21:14:07 <Oro_Valley> samba4 still needs a lot of work. they release version 4.1.12 yeasterday. It will not be ready to replace samba3 in mga5 21:14:10 <MrsB> need regular meetings again i think to raise their profile 21:14:35 <malo> Oro_Valley: we're proposing to provide it as an alternative 21:14:36 <coling> I think I'll just bail out on initscripts ifup-wlan tho' and revert back to what we had... I won't really have time to debug and understand it all properly. 21:15:50 <Oro_Valley> malo: We are making good progress. The apprentice is really good 21:16:28 <malo> Oro_Valley: version freeze is today 21:16:55 <Oro_Valley> as we said earlier, it doesn't apply since it's a new pacakge 21:17:59 <tmb> just need to be careful with obsoletes/provides so it does not mess up anything 21:18:30 <malo> Oro_Valley: the earlier in the distro the more testing it gets. Ideally Beta 1 should be the target. 21:21:10 <Oro_Valley> tmb: I agree 21:21:35 * tmb sorry... laptop keeps dying... 21:21:36 <malo> Ok. I thing we're done with feature review. It's not looking very good. 21:21:57 <malo> We should have a discussion about features for mga6 development. 21:22:47 <DavidWHodgins> malo: A discussion of mga6 features should be left until after mga5 is out, in my opinion. 21:23:03 <malo> DavidWHodgins: yes, that's what I mean :-) 21:23:07 <malo> not today :-) 21:23:16 <DavidWHodgins> Yep 21:23:25 <malo> ennael: there? 21:23:40 * Luigi12_work wonders if branching a next stable before the release and having cauldron separate would help 21:23:47 <ennael> yep 21:23:48 <Oro_Valley> I think the serious testing will start around RC 21:23:48 <ennael> reading 21:25:30 <anaselli> good night 21:25:34 <malo> done with features :-) 21:25:44 <ennael> ok :) 21:25:45 <leuhmanu> Oro_Valley: it should not 21:25:47 <malo> Other things on the agenda? 21:25:49 <ennael> then I guess meeting is done 21:26:25 <DavidWHodgins> Yeah. Time for dinner here (I don't cook, so always go out for dinner.) 21:26:34 <malo> can we get the version freeze tonight (Pacific time)? :-) 21:26:45 <ennael> malo: planned already :) 21:27:04 <Oro_Valley> sounds good, tmb needs some slepp 21:27:12 <Oro_Valley> sleep 21:27:19 <malo> ennael: Good! 21:27:27 <malo> Thanks everyone! 21:27:31 <malo> #endmeeting 21:27:41 <ennael> #endmeeintg 21:27:44 <ennael> oups 21:27:49 <ennael> #endmeeting