19:40:37 <ennael> #startmeeting
19:40:37 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Tue Apr  8 19:40:37 2014 UTC.  The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:40:37 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:40:40 <ennael> #chair malo
19:40:40 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: ennael malo
19:40:59 <ennael> hi all and thanks those around tonight
19:41:34 <malo> hi all
19:41:48 <ennael> Luigi12_work: around ?
19:41:49 <coling> hello
19:41:56 <rindolf> Hi all.
19:42:05 <filipesaraiva> hi!
19:42:31 <ennael> ok let see later if luigi is around
19:42:52 <ennael> #topic Mageia 5 features proposal
19:43:19 <ennael> so here is the list of proposals: https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Category:ProposedFeatureMageia5
19:43:45 <ennael> malo: shall we review them one by one ?
19:44:16 <malo> ennael: yes.
19:44:27 <malo> ennael: some will be quick
19:45:03 <ennael> ok let's go then
19:45:05 <ennael> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:3DPrinters_Installation
19:45:55 <malo> Does anyone have a 3d printer?
19:46:18 <rindolf> malo: I know someone who does.
19:47:22 <malo> I think this feature is a great idea: it needs people to do it.
19:47:53 <coling> I don't really see why the installer should be modified for this tho'
19:47:53 <ennael> yep maybe call for testers first to check we have hardware available for tests
19:48:09 <coling> I mean I don't think we should integrate installation of 3d printers into the installer itself.
19:48:15 <coling> It's already complicated enough!!
19:48:34 <malo> coling: yes, there is no advantage to configure the printer during installation.
19:49:48 <rindolf> I agree that it shouldn't be in the installer.
19:49:52 <malo> coling: I think this feature is 1) have 3dprinter drivers in Mageia 2) Write wizard.
19:50:02 <malo> 1) is realistic for mga5
19:50:42 <malo> 2) is not worth the effort yet, considering the number of 3d printers around.
19:51:37 <malo> Other opinions?
19:51:58 <coling> seems right to me.
19:52:08 <malo> It still needs interested packagers
19:52:19 <anaselli> could it be of help? https://wiki.debian.org/3D-printer
19:52:32 <malo> ennael: what are the outcomes of the feature review again?
19:52:50 <ennael> ?
19:52:57 <malo> ennael: accepted, pending, refused?
19:53:14 <ennael> accepted, need more information, refused
19:53:43 <anaselli> need more hardware?
19:53:44 <anaselli> :D
19:53:52 <ennael> could be :)
19:54:02 <ennael> ok so maybe need more information ?
19:54:25 <malo> ennael: yes.
19:54:33 <malo> ennael: needs volunteer.
19:54:39 <ennael> and hardware
19:54:43 <ennael> next one
19:54:46 <ennael> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Btfrs_as_default
19:56:11 <anaselli> hmm the owner... who can refuse it? :p
19:56:25 <ennael> tsss :)
19:56:30 <ennael> this is a proposal
19:57:35 <anaselli> planning missing :D
19:57:50 <ennael> yep not all complete
19:58:09 <anaselli> maybe coling could say something on that
19:58:59 <coling> I've not really used btrfs personally, but I think maybe the time is now right for it by default. Other distros I think are moving in that direction.
19:59:14 <ennael> and hardwareyep
19:59:16 <ennael> oups
19:59:17 <ennael> yep
19:59:18 <coling> I guess it's just a judgement call on stability. The snapshotting etc. will allow lots of nice features.
19:59:37 <ennael> indeed it's a question of choice in features list
19:59:54 <ennael> I've added the one that are mentionned as stable enough
20:00:07 <ennael> I spoke a bit with tmb and he seemed not against it
20:00:09 <malo> coling, ennael: how much tool support does it need?
20:00:28 <ennael> well installer and drakxtools
20:00:30 <anaselli> diskdrake?
20:00:33 <ennael> yep
20:00:36 <coling> I don't *think* a huge deal. I mean it's an option in the installer already is it not?
20:00:38 <anaselli> at least
20:00:45 <ennael> coling: it is
20:00:58 <ennael> the only bit missing is having grub2
20:01:05 <coling> So this is really just about selecting/proposing it as default which should be trivial change.
20:01:13 <coling> Pah! Just mandate a sensible /boot
20:01:20 * coling hides
20:01:33 <ennael> :)
20:01:43 <anaselli> coling: that sounds as volonteer :)
20:02:11 <ennael> ok so ok for it but implementation needs more precision
20:02:17 <ennael> ok?
20:02:41 <anaselli> and not leave this feature as final one to be implemented also ;)
20:02:56 <ennael> should be started now
20:03:03 <ennael> ok
20:03:11 <ennael> next one
20:03:15 <ennael> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:ChangeKDEDM
20:03:29 <ennael> proposed by the guy who will implement it
20:03:40 <ennael> kdm is being deprecated in coming KDE versions
20:03:52 <ennael> so I guess we can go for it
20:04:11 <anaselli> sorry for my ignorance... what is KF?
20:04:18 <rindolf> anaselli: KDE Frameworks.
20:04:23 <anaselli> ah
20:04:45 <anaselli> let's say is more a todo list for neoclust :D
20:04:52 <ennael> indeed
20:04:56 <ennael> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Encryption
20:06:23 <anaselli> is that true? I mean is not written anyware to encrypt the partition?
20:07:22 <ennael> encryption is based on lvm for now
20:07:35 <ennael> demand is having encryption on a classical partition
20:07:51 <coling> Hmm, I thought we could encrypt without LVM.
20:08:04 <coling> I'm pretty sure I've done several installs like that without LVM.
20:08:08 <ennael> well it seems diskrake is not proposing it
20:08:26 <coling> I'm not sure about that. I'm certain the installer proposes this.
20:08:59 <coling> I have some vms which end up with e.g. /dev/mapper/crypt_sda2 etc.
20:09:15 <ennael> see the discussion part in wiki for this feature
20:09:21 <ennael> I did not check it for now
20:09:33 <ennael> so maybe more information needed on that one
20:09:41 <anaselli> coling: i seem to recall that too...
20:10:01 <anaselli> but hope not to have seen somewhere else...
20:10:58 <coling> I'd also be very cautious of adding more complication to the installer too. I mean, I don't want to have to support a million ways of getting the same end result just because we can. IMO we should only support one, sensible and well implemented way rather than several half-hearted ways.
20:11:19 <coling> Mainly due to the test matrix explosion this results in.
20:11:36 <ennael> can you add this on discussion tab ?
20:11:50 <anaselli> maybe we could just provide it in diskdrake?
20:12:00 <coling> Which is a massive burden on QA during the release process and also distracts people like myself when bugs are reported on this stuff.
20:13:40 <ennael> I have no pb on my side with this position
20:13:47 <ennael> let's do things smaller but better
20:15:02 <anaselli> next one?
20:15:10 <ennael> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:HomerunKickerAsDefaultApplicationLauncherInKDE
20:15:22 <ennael> that one should be reviewed by neoclust I guess
20:15:43 <ennael> it looks quite nice but on my side I have no idea about the perennity of that project
20:17:04 <anaselli> i cannot take a position, i think the default kde kickoff is too big
20:17:20 <ennael> ok let's ping neoclust about it
20:17:20 <malo> filipesaraiva: your feature?
20:17:27 <filipesaraiva> yes malo
20:17:41 <anaselli> but isen't it configurable by  removing our kickoff and adding a default one?
20:17:46 <filipesaraiva> My proposal to it was based on negative reviews about application launcher on mageia 4.
20:18:39 <anaselli> that is old style i see
20:19:08 <anaselli> but the kickoff can be changed right?
20:19:15 <filipesaraiva> Yes, he can.
20:20:00 <filipesaraiva> Well, it is just a proposal. I proposes Homerun Kicker because it have the same style of current Kickoff, but Homerun Kicker have more features and it is more beautiful. ;)
20:20:27 <anaselli> well for me it's the same, as i can add it i can change the the old one
20:20:48 <filipesaraiva> But I think change the current launcher to Kickoff new style would be interesting too.
20:20:54 <barjac> Please no - keep classic as default IMHO
20:21:07 * rindolf likes the Kickoff style - will it still be available?
20:21:08 <coling> I think it'll always be a bit of a bikeshed issue! :)
20:21:28 <anaselli> maybe adding the search utility if it is possible
20:21:39 <filipesaraiva> anaselli yes, you can change.
20:21:52 <anaselli> neoclust: could answer that
20:22:09 <coling> I think the only way to not upset people is to have x number of solid proposals (i.e. defaults) and then allow voting on it in some way. That way no-one can claim they were not listened to.
20:22:32 <coling> Obviously this is just the default so users would be free to reconfigure to their own tastes.
20:22:39 <ennael> that could be done indeed
20:22:50 <ennael> another way to speak how decisions are taken in mageia
20:22:54 <ennael> good idea coling
20:24:16 * anaselli has two bars and two kickoff now
20:24:24 <filipesaraiva> anaselli =D
20:24:47 <filipesaraiva> anaselli you can not add search in Kickoff classic. You must change Kickoff style to have this feature.
20:25:07 <barjac> filipesaraiva: Run
20:25:22 <rindolf> filipesaraiva: I have a search there.
20:25:36 <rindolf> filipesaraiva: right at the top.
20:26:06 <filipesaraiva> rindolf: but it is not Kickoff *classic* style. It is another style.
20:26:21 <rindolf> filipesaraiva: Kickoff "classic" style?
20:26:23 <ennael> ok next one ?
20:26:26 <barjac> filipesaraiva: classic has search built into Run Command..
20:26:33 <rindolf> filipesaraiva: there's Kickoff style and there's classic style.
20:26:33 <ennael> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Installer
20:26:38 <rindolf> ennael: OK.
20:29:05 <anaselli> "in many screens, it is impossible to go back " and "It is impossible to stop the installation and reboot properly "
20:29:30 <anaselli> i cannot get them very much
20:30:01 <anaselli> first one could be valid for some configurations and not for others
20:30:40 <anaselli> second one, if you don't have a system on the disk, what does it mean reboot properly?
20:32:33 <anaselli> coling: it is the installer... say something :p
20:32:59 <coling> Well, yeah the "add a back" option is simple at a high level, but no sure how much effort it really is!
20:33:40 <coling> What I mean is, it's conceptually simple (and sensible), but I'm not 100% sure of what would be needed at a code level.
20:33:44 * anaselli is falling asleep and we are just at sixth :)
20:33:57 * coling is somewhat ill, so head is not in a good shape!
20:35:21 <ennael> ok so it needs more investigation on what it would need to implement it
20:35:35 <ennael> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:NetworkDrakToolsImprovements
20:35:38 <coling> I guess so, but in principle it all seesm sensible.
20:36:17 <coling> Big +1 on updating draknet* to be a NM frontend.
20:36:23 <anaselli> coling: once you formatted disks you cannot be sure to have a good reboot point...
20:36:45 <coling> anaselli, yeah absolutely. I agree with your second point above.
20:38:50 <anaselli> well let's say fedora and redhat use system-config-network as NM front-end really
20:39:15 <anaselli> and that we should have a working front-end for it too
20:39:22 <anaselli> so i'm in favour
20:40:25 <anaselli> and that should also solve a lot of 3g modem working with NM and failing with drakconnect
20:43:41 * anaselli knocks
20:43:53 <malo> we approve that one?
20:43:59 <malo> it has volunteers
20:44:08 <malo> it seems well-thought out
20:44:30 <ennael> let's go for it
20:46:08 <anaselli> well i don't know if we have volounteers but sounds reasonable ;)
20:46:30 <malo> next?
20:46:47 <anaselli> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Category:ProposedFeatureMageia5
20:46:58 <ennael> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:New_Mageia_KDE_TopMenu
20:47:08 <ennael> that one is linked to KDE menu I guess
20:47:10 <anaselli> sorry
20:47:34 <anaselli> do we have it for gnome?
20:47:43 <ennael> nope
20:48:25 <anaselli> maybe just mageia version... but for it something i don't care really
20:48:52 <barjac> and arch would be nice
20:48:52 <ovitters> it in settings, details
20:49:35 <ennael> ok
20:49:36 <anaselli> i've just realized that you don't know who you are... but most desktop are almost signle users...
20:49:59 <ennael> barjac: you cannot write evertything :)
20:50:08 <ennael> OS, DE version, arch, user...
20:50:15 <ennael> it's an admin panel then :)
20:50:21 <anaselli> well with new kickof there is room :D
20:51:04 <barjac> I did propose an About icon years ago - I still use it ;)
20:51:40 <anaselli> kde predefined says "user (username) on host"
20:52:16 <ovitters> https://people.gnome.org/~ovitters/Screenshot%20from%202014-04-08%2022:49:11.png
20:52:34 <ennael> ok so rather About
20:52:44 <ennael> which is different from what is proposed here
20:52:52 <anaselli> ovitters: it's not kde :p
20:53:04 <ovitters> anaselli: someone asked about gnome
20:53:08 <ennael> so maybe speak more about this and propose this kind of feature
20:53:14 <anaselli> me
20:54:01 <anaselli> maybe we could ask neoclust if it is hard and it's worth ennael
20:54:08 <malo> this is not a feature, but just a bug report in fact, no?
20:54:50 <malo> not worth considering as a feature IMHO
20:55:00 <anaselli> malo: from my point of you just the username could be
20:55:33 <anaselli> of view
20:55:56 * anaselli cannot go on longer :)
20:56:09 <ennael> ok so need more information
20:56:24 <ennael> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:OneInstaller
20:57:14 <coling> I like the principle of this one. Personally I'd rather make our installer much simpler, but sadly I doubt others would agree :D
20:58:15 <coling> I think it will be a rather radical rework and I doubt there is much in the way of resources (it mentions "installer developers to do the work", and I wonder who these mythical creatures are ;)
20:58:28 <coling> But again, I'm personally in favour of it in principle.
20:58:55 * ennael is in favour also of end of war everywhere on earth :p
21:00:31 <anaselli> so it's valid in principle :D
21:00:39 <ennael> ok next then
21:00:42 <ennael> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Openbox
21:00:49 <ennael> I don't understand that one
21:00:55 <anaselli> let's go searching mythical cratures
21:01:05 <ennael> looks like doc rather than proposal
21:02:48 <rindolf> Good night all, I'm going to sleep.
21:02:58 * rindolf has a meeting downtown tomorrow.
21:03:13 <ennael> ok looks like everybody is sleeping. Maybe we can stop for tonight
21:03:22 <anaselli> hmm i think he had to do a lot of hand working... and he would like not to (but i don't understand what destroying means for him)
21:03:38 <anaselli> maybe more a bug?
21:03:44 <ennael> no idea
21:03:44 <barjac> that openbox page has been accessed 3,195 times
21:03:58 <anaselli> 98 now :p
21:04:33 <anaselli> because it looks nice
21:04:42 <anaselli> but it seems an howto
21:05:15 <anaselli> ennael: it is neither in the template format
21:05:15 <malo> maybe we can remove Category:Feature ?
21:05:21 <barjac> anaselli: maybe it moved accidentally
21:05:27 <anaselli> could be
21:05:50 <malo> or someone wanted to have this in mageia 5 by default.
21:06:20 <malo> next?
21:06:35 <malo> or should we stop for this week and continue next week?
21:06:49 <ennael> yep
21:07:05 <anaselli> \o/
21:07:30 <ennael> thanks for attending tonight guys
21:07:45 <barjac> anaselli: I think the 'what links here' says it all
21:07:46 <ennael> #endmeeting