19:18:52 <malo> #startmeeting
19:18:52 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Tue Jul 16 19:18:52 2013 UTC.  The chair is malo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:18:52 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:19:11 <malo> Welcome all to the Mageia packager meeting!
19:19:24 <MrsB> morning
19:19:26 <ennael> hi there sorry to be late
19:19:26 <AL13N> malo: not much, i fear, i need some help
19:19:31 <AL13N> oops, meeting started
19:19:32 <AL13N> sorry
19:19:45 <malo> #chair ennael
19:19:45 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: ennael malo
19:20:13 <malo> #topic Who's new, mentoring, ... etc
19:20:28 <malo> any new packager/apprentice here?
19:20:40 * tmb feels sort of new nowdays :)
19:20:50 <marja> :)
19:21:26 <malo> #info we need some packagers to volunteer for mentoring some of our apprentices
19:21:27 <jeffrobins> This is my first time at the meeting
19:21:41 <malo> jeffrobins: of course :-). Welcome!
19:21:54 <AL13N> there's a first time for everything
19:22:07 <sebsebseb> hi
19:22:16 <grenoya> jeffrobins: welcome
19:22:26 <sebsebseb> jeffrobins: hi
19:22:31 <jeffrobins> Thank you all
19:22:32 <marja> jeffrobins: hi, welcome
19:22:39 <sebsebseb> jeffrobins: welcome
19:22:57 <malo> jeffrobins is currently my apprentice, and we are restarting after an interruption :-)
19:23:16 <MrsB> hi jeffrobins
19:23:26 <malo> great to have you on IRC jeffrobins
19:23:31 <malo> Anyone else?
19:23:41 <sebsebseb> malo is brand new :d
19:24:03 <malo> ok. Next topic.
19:24:12 <malo> #topic Planning for mga4
19:24:30 <malo> ennael: I hand you the mic
19:24:37 <napcok> hi i'm new because of my feature proposal, but i'm not apprentice (yet)
19:25:00 <marja> napcok: welcome to you, too
19:25:02 <malo> oh, napcok welcome then :-)
19:25:14 <sebsebseb> hi welcome napcok
19:25:58 <napcok> thanks
19:26:04 <malo> napcok: if you want to join our apprentice program, please register on https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Becoming_a_Mageia_Packager
19:26:34 <AL13N> (or join some other teams, like QA :-) )
19:26:47 <malo> AL13N: this is the packager meeting :-P
19:26:53 <MrsB> :D
19:27:04 <AL13N> malo: people can join multiple teams :-)
19:27:15 <malo> napcok: anyway, it's great to have you involved.
19:27:22 <MrsB> hi napcok
19:27:36 <malo> It seems we lost ennael ...
19:27:38 <napcok> malo, ok i'm thinking about joining packager team
19:28:11 <napcok> probably will try to do it next month
19:28:16 <malo> napcok: great, please come chat on #mageia-mentoring when you want to start
19:28:53 <malo> Ok, to go back to planning
19:29:12 <malo> #info ennael will write a blog post soon with the planning dates
19:29:28 <ennael> so here the main dates
19:29:50 <ennael> first alpha 2013/08/08
19:30:03 <ennael> second alpha 2013/09/06
19:30:14 <ennael> third alpha 2013/10/02
19:30:26 <ennael> first beta 2013/10/31
19:30:34 <ennael> second beta 2013/11/28
19:30:47 <ennael> RC 2013/12/17
19:30:56 <ennael> final release 2014/02/01
19:31:12 <ennael> we will add dates for version and release freeze
19:31:23 <ennael> and a full rebuild of the distro
19:31:48 <sander85> i hope we can manage full rebuild before betas this time :)
19:32:17 <pterjan> yes, we can!
19:32:24 <ennael> thanks pterjan  :)
19:32:50 <ennael> also all features will have to be finalized before beta 1
19:33:21 <sander85> sounds good
19:34:02 <malo> So basically, features have August, September to be done, and October to be finalised
19:34:16 <ennael> yep no vacation :)
19:34:29 <malo> We need to keep that in mind in the next hour or so when we discuss features
19:34:38 * malo is optimistic
19:34:42 <sander85> :)
19:34:44 <neoser10> three monts to QA???
19:34:57 <sebsebseb> seems there's a lot of testing time yeah if done like this
19:35:10 <sander85> well, we need testing time :)
19:35:34 <sander85> and these are big features.. fixes and small stuff will be ongoing stuff
19:35:34 <malo> neoser10: it's for the features, bug fixing and QA never stop
19:35:40 <DavidWHodgins> neoser10: It's three months for packagers to fix the problems found by qa.
19:36:16 <AL13N> wow not even 4 weeks until first alpha
19:36:22 <AL13N> scary
19:36:22 <sebsebseb> hej swecarp in time for the packagers meeting just about?
19:36:25 <malo> AL13N: yep.
19:36:34 <MrsB> motivating
19:36:39 <AL13N> true
19:36:42 <sebsebseb> AL13N: no not really, the first alpha will just be basically  Mageia 3 with updated packages
19:36:43 <ennael> AL13N: we are preparing an horror release :)
19:36:52 <AL13N> hopefully we won't do too much features then
19:36:56 <AL13N> so we can have a stable release
19:37:13 <ennael> alpha isos are not aimed to be all stable
19:37:18 <MrsB> as long as they're completed in time we can do as many as we have people for
19:37:18 <ennael> it's a dev snapshot
19:37:26 <AL13N> but beta is sort of
19:38:08 <sebsebseb> Beta is a preview sure
19:38:08 <ennael> any other question, comment on planning ?
19:38:50 <ryoshu> ennael: yes
19:38:50 <marja> not here
19:38:51 <sebsebseb> no not as such, but early February should be quite interseting :d
19:39:04 <malo> ennael: shall we move to features?
19:39:07 <ennael> yep
19:39:12 <ennael> the burning part :)
19:39:17 <ryoshu> ennael: is Fosdem the definite release time?
19:39:23 <sebsebseb> ryoshu: yep
19:39:24 <ennael> ryoshu: yes
19:39:30 <sebsebseb> no delays alloweed this time
19:39:31 <ryoshu> ennael: thanks
19:39:35 <sebsebseb> of the final
19:39:45 <malo> #topic Feature review
19:39:47 <ennael> sebsebseb: ok we will for your fixes then :)
19:40:27 <malo> So we should decide now on the list of features we want (and we can actually deliver) for mageia 4.
19:40:35 <sebsebseb> yep :)
19:40:57 <sebsebseb> @ malo
19:41:04 <malo> Two weeks ago, we accepted 8 features and rejected 5
19:41:21 <ryoshu> malo: could you please list them here?
19:41:38 <malo> there remains 28 to be discussed ...
19:41:43 <malo> ryoshu: sure
19:42:01 <sebsebseb> I thought more than just 8 features got accepted or whatever, but right ok :)
19:42:26 <malo> Accepted are:  Feature:CheckboxesToChooseDE and Feature:Independently install desktop environments and Feature:Predefinedpackageselection Feature:DoNotShipSysVInitScripts Feature:Kscreen Feature:Cinnamon Feature:Mate Feature:New Mgarepo Feature:Rpmlint enhancement Feature:MTP (Media Transport Protocol) Support
19:42:46 <malo> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/FeatureMageia4_Review
19:42:57 <malo> it's easier to click on the links there
19:43:52 <malo> Rejected are: Feature:DiskDrakeNetworkDevices (mga5) Feature:DrakXtoolsReview (mga5) Feature:Descriptions of rpm in rpmdrake available in different languages (unrealistic) Feature:InstallerLeftSideRedesign (mga5) Feature:LoginWithKeyboard (upstream)
19:44:16 <malo> Everyone up to speed?
19:44:21 <AL13N> malo: in respons to your earlier question, the rescan one is only less than 1 week work, but i need some help to point me in the correct direction
19:45:07 <malo> AL13N: we can discuss in a moment :-)
19:45:34 <sebsebseb> maybe  the Yougoslavia stuff should get removed from Mageia's   installer, time zones, keyboard etc.  does that country even exist anymore?  not that I know of.
19:45:41 <AL13N> sure, but don't spend too much time on this (and each other feature) i don't want all the features to take too long :-)
19:45:49 <AL13N> malo: should we get started?
19:46:21 <malo> For the discussion, there are 3 categories of features: the ones we didn't discuss, the one we discussed and where progress was made, and the ones we discussed, but no progress was made
19:47:17 <malo> So we'll start from the ones we haven't discussed, and later we'll go fast on the ones we have already talked about. Ok?
19:47:39 <malo> I'll skip colin's features until he arrives.
19:47:48 <AL13N> ok ;-)
19:47:57 <malo> First is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:NetworkDrakToolsImprovements
19:48:19 <ennael> we have somebody on it and these tools need some love :)
19:48:28 <malo> Clear accept?
19:48:50 <sebsebseb> add ipv6 support why not?
19:49:01 <ryoshu> malo: it needs green light, because it misses many features right now
19:49:20 <sander85> it can't go worse :P
19:49:26 <ennael> malo: ok then
19:49:28 <AL13N> ipv6 would be nice
19:49:34 <sebsebseb> ok accepted it seems then
19:49:37 <malo> Ok, accepted
19:49:38 <AL13N> i can help test
19:49:40 <DavidWHodgins> As long as it doesn't cause problems on ipv4 only systems, accepted.
19:49:56 <malo> Next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:NewbieHow-To
19:50:29 <sebsebseb> plasmoid a kde feature?
19:50:42 <sebsebseb> seems it's documentaiton though, so accept I guess :)
19:50:45 <malo> If it's only a KDE thing, then no.
19:50:54 <MrsB> this could be tied to daniels (napcok)
19:51:07 <ryoshu> Wait please, napcok has something similar
19:51:13 <ryoshu> MageiaWelcome
19:51:15 <napcok> It can be link from MageiaWelcome :)
19:51:20 <AL13N> something different but similar?
19:51:24 <malo> If it's the same as https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:MageiaWelcome, then we can link them together
19:51:31 <ennael> I think we should merge both features
19:51:36 <sebsebseb> altough if a KDE only thing, not fair on other de's really for the newbie how to
19:51:43 <AL13N> i think it should be merged too
19:51:45 <ennael> and we have resources and solution to implement
19:51:45 <sebsebseb> would be good to have some kind of how to in Mageia I think though :)
19:51:56 <AL13N> but it would need to be not KDE only thing
19:52:07 <neoser10> i do not consider similar.... one is a how to for new users... the other is a greeting for use of mageia distro not?
19:52:18 <sebsebseb> AL13N: yep KDE only not good  for that
19:52:26 <napcok> MageiaWelcome will be DE independent
19:52:38 <malo> neoser10: if the greeting points to the doc, then they are similar
19:52:45 <AL13N> who is doing this newbie howto?
19:52:51 <sebsebseb> a welcome screen Mandriva 2010 sereis had something like that
19:52:55 <sebsebseb> I think we should have one to probably really :)
19:53:11 <sebsebseb> just as long as can easily  disable it if people don't want it in that case though :)
19:53:23 <sebsebseb> and re enable even if want it back
19:53:33 <malo> napcok: is it easy for you to integrate a doc based howto? Probably not
19:53:33 <napcok> sebsebseb, sure
19:53:43 <AL13N> it sounds to me that we should have this worked to in doc team and sort of have a HTML container in Mageia welcome
19:53:48 <MrsB> marcello is available to write the docs it says on the feature AL13N
19:54:06 <malo> So should we accept  https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:MageiaWelcome with doc from https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:NewbieHow-To ?
19:54:10 <AL13N> napcok: wdyt? is that possible? a html container pointing to doc.mageia.org/newbiehowto?
19:54:18 <ennael> malo: yep
19:54:26 <DavidWHodgins> Yes.
19:54:39 <napcok> AL13N, yes it will be just link pointing to docs
19:54:44 <malo> AL13N, napcok: you two can discuss the details later :-)
19:54:46 <sebsebseb> ok sounds alright :)
19:54:48 <sebsebseb> accept ?
19:54:48 <AL13N> link is fine too, i guess
19:54:52 <MrsB> \o/
19:55:01 <malo> Ok Accepted.
19:55:01 <ryoshu> AL13N: please allow to use it offline
19:55:07 <MrsB> yes
19:55:23 <AL13N> ryoshu: html5 has such things, much like we use in indexhtml package
19:55:26 <malo> Next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Pillow
19:55:41 <pterjan> I like the name
19:55:58 <AL13N> it sounds like it's a packaging thing and not really a feature
19:56:00 <sebsebseb> I guess Pillow is ok, but then again I am not a Python programmer so
19:56:12 <malo> philippem doing the work, so ok?
19:56:22 <AL13N> maybe it's best to just have alternative for this and sort this out as regular package, if the python maintainer agrees
19:56:43 <AL13N> malo: fine by me, allthought it doesn't quite seem like a feature
19:56:52 <pterjan> no opinion
19:56:56 <malo> AL13N: same as MariaDb, no?
19:57:01 <philippem> yes work is almost done, just have to check dependencies
19:57:07 <malo> Accepted then.
19:57:10 <AL13N> malo: that wasn't a feature either, but we did it anyway
19:57:14 <AL13N> :-)
19:57:27 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:PythonByteCompiling
19:57:33 <malo> Same?
19:57:44 <sander85> pretty much yes
19:57:57 <sebsebseb> I guess accept that one to
19:58:06 <AL13N> it doesn't sound that useful, and have extra space requirement
19:58:14 <AL13N> but i'm not a python dev, so i donno
19:58:32 <philippem> not really, it is a big change, a lot of work to review all python packages
19:58:39 <malo> Packager and SIG business, but which can potentially impact many packages.
19:58:43 <AL13N> philippem: is this really useful? it sounds like adding binaries for interpreted language
19:59:16 <pterjan> it probably makes startup faster for stuff using a lot of modules
19:59:21 <AL13N> iinm when running python it bytecompiles it itself?
19:59:32 <philippem> yes it would solve some bugs
19:59:51 <AL13N> i'll give you the benefit of the doubt, you know more about it than i do
20:00:24 <malo> philippem: is it doable? Would you mind explaining somewhere what to do, for maintainers of python programs?
20:00:33 <AL13N> (i hope i won't have any trouble with xen and check_mk)
20:01:25 <philippem> I hope it is doable, I will complete the wiki and make a post, the all rebuild will help
20:01:31 <malo> Ok. Accept then
20:01:35 <AL13N> if it cannot completed
20:01:42 <AL13N> can it be delayed without trouble?
20:01:51 <malo> AL13N: I don't think so.
20:02:05 <AL13N> is it a problem if only half have bytecompiled stuff shipped?
20:02:16 <malo> AL13N: it the case currently :-)
20:02:24 <AL13N> ah, ok, so no trouble
20:02:26 <AL13N> :-)
20:02:43 <malo> Next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Remote-Help
20:03:09 <AL13N> didn't we have this already?
20:03:14 <sebsebseb> I think accept for that
20:03:15 <AL13N> iinm i've used this with my dad
20:03:18 <sebsebseb> sounds like VNC or something though
20:03:28 <AL13N> he had to go into MCC and click some stuff and i could take it over
20:03:39 <sebsebseb> actsauly sounds slighty like Windows/Micosoft to :d
20:03:47 <sebsebseb> ask a friend for help option
20:03:49 <DavidWHodgins> Must not be enabled by default.
20:03:58 <sebsebseb> yep  accept, but not enabled by default sure
20:04:01 * Luigi12_work heard Chrome has something like this bult-in
20:04:06 <AL13N> it must be on-demand
20:04:08 <malo> All that is well, but who is in charge of the feature?
20:04:09 <AL13N> like it is now
20:04:16 <MrsB> teamviewer is not distributable is it?
20:04:24 <Luigi12_work> if it also works in Chromium, this feature might be pointless
20:04:31 <sebsebseb> MrsB: nope don't think can use Teamviewer for that
20:04:34 <AL13N> i think the current problem is firewalling mostly
20:04:36 <sebsebseb> has to be VNC or Freenz or whatever
20:04:46 <sebsebseb> Freenx above
20:04:47 <AL13N> perhaps we should open up firewall temporarily for another ip, for vnc
20:05:12 <sebsebseb> Luigi12_work: something propritary I guess if Chrome has something
20:05:19 <AL13N> malo: i think the current existing thing should be improved or made more userfriendly instead of remaking a new thing
20:05:22 <sebsebseb> Luigi12_work: or did you mean CHromium and if so  open source :d
20:05:28 <tmb> AL13N: and then people will complain since it still wont work as there will be a NAT somewhere in betwern...
20:05:48 <AL13N> tmb: people always complain :-)
20:06:03 <sebsebseb> a remote connect feature in there by default, I guess why not,  may have to  make it clear to users about enableing and such  though, if there is one
20:06:12 <AL13N> but unless we make a vpn service i don't see any solution
20:06:14 <pterjan> Luigi12_work: chrome has something but I think people need a google account
20:06:21 <Luigi12_work> http://www.unixmen.com/how-to-access-remote-systems-from-anywhere-using-chrome-remote-desktop/
20:06:23 <[mbot> [ How To Access Remote Systems from Anywhere Using Google Chrome | Unixmen ]
20:06:33 <AL13N> tmb: i install openvpn on my dad's PC
20:06:41 <tmb> For a feature like this to work like "foolproof", you need an external "proxy server" that both connects to
20:06:52 <AL13N> tmb: exactly
20:06:56 <AL13N> a tcp redirect service
20:06:57 <malo> guys, we are getting away from the discussion.
20:07:01 <AL13N> preferably secure
20:07:11 <sebsebseb> either accept the feature or not,  I think  would be nice to have, but also ok not to have in Mageia 4
20:07:14 <AL13N> i don't think we can do this
20:07:19 <Luigi12_work> reject, next
20:07:21 <AL13N> i would like to reject it in it's current form
20:07:30 <DavidWHodgins> Without more details, I'd say reject.
20:07:39 <malo> Reject then
20:07:47 <tmb> yep, it has no resources
20:07:51 <AL13N> as i said, currently i can make it work, so it's good enough for me at this point
20:07:56 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:RethinkingOurPackageManager
20:08:11 <AL13N> ugh, i hate the title already
20:08:14 <malo> reject?
20:08:18 <ennael> yes for me
20:08:23 <ennael> (reject)
20:08:35 <sebsebseb> I think it may be worth changign the package manager eventually
20:08:36 <sebsebseb> ,but not for Mageia 4
20:08:39 <AL13N> unless it changes into an improve urpmi thing, reject
20:08:58 <tmb> reject
20:09:01 <sebsebseb> reject
20:09:06 <MrsB> Appstream though is possible
20:09:28 <AL13N> appstream works on top of packagekit, which works on top of urpmi
20:09:33 <MrsB> yep
20:09:50 <AL13N> ok, next
20:09:56 <malo> Reject then
20:10:03 <sebsebseb> is AppStream coming into Magiea 4? :)
20:10:06 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:RpmDrakeShowsAdvisories
20:10:17 <malo> sebsebseb: later
20:10:32 <AL13N> i think this is long overdue
20:10:44 <AL13N> something we should've had in mga1
20:10:51 <sebsebseb> I think accept for that one
20:10:52 <pterjan> indeed
20:10:55 <DavidWHodgins> Yes
20:11:02 <malo> Who does the work?
20:11:03 <AL13N> but, who's gonna do it?
20:11:17 <sebsebseb> Aelier makes the icons I guess
20:11:20 <sebsebseb> Atelier
20:11:20 <AL13N> iinm sysadmin team was working on a qa update validate tool
20:11:30 <AL13N> hopefull it can fulfill this too
20:11:55 <MrsB> we do put advisories on svn now
20:12:11 <malo> ennael: can you see if tv can do that?
20:12:21 <pterjan> I think it's rather sysadmin work
20:12:22 <ennael> yep I will try to ping him on this
20:12:24 <AL13N> but it's not put into a descriptions file on the mirrors?
20:12:27 <ennael> integration
20:12:29 <pterjan> we need to generate the file on the mirrors
20:12:42 <pterjan> AL13N: I think so
20:12:47 <ennael> so pterjan volunteers on it \o/
20:12:49 <AL13N> i donno, but it sounds like a small task
20:12:52 <pterjan> yes
20:12:56 <tmb> pterjan: or we make it read the new stuff on advisories.mageia.org
20:13:00 <malo> pterjan: great :-)
20:13:07 <ennael> malo: then accepted. next
20:13:07 <malo> Accept then.
20:13:10 <MrsB> nice
20:13:12 <pterjan> tmb: that's another solution :)
20:13:16 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:ShipSomeImportantTaintedAndNonFree
20:13:30 <tmb> reject
20:13:34 <malo> Reject for legal reasons?
20:13:56 <sebsebseb> maybe a app that makes it easy to install that stuff, but not by default
20:14:01 <malo> Ok. Next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:UiAbstraction4mcc
20:14:03 <tmb> tainted stuff on our isos is a no-go
20:14:14 <malo> sebsebseb: we are working on task-codec :-)
20:14:28 <ennael> yep no tainted packages in isos
20:14:33 <sebsebseb> malo: oh ok :)
20:14:39 <MrsB> it could be a click on the new login thing
20:14:45 <MrsB> napcok's one
20:14:53 <Adrien_D> task-codec ?
20:14:55 <AL13N> malo: iinm someone was working on this already, i say we let him continue, but it might not get finished in time
20:15:17 <malo> sebsebseb: I should have said Adrien_D is working on it :-)
20:15:33 <sebsebseb> the MCC feature just now, accept I guesS? ,but then again I am not dev realy so
20:15:38 <malo> AL13N: yes, this was a feature for mga3 :-)
20:15:38 <AL13N> are we talking about the ui abstraction?
20:15:48 <MrsB> that's WIP i think still
20:15:57 <AL13N> i think we can continue this and maybe it'll be ready for mga5
20:16:05 <malo> I'll put in reject (for mga5)
20:16:16 <neoser10> yes
20:16:22 <neoser10> to mga5
20:16:40 <malo> Next are all coling, so we switch to the one we discussed but no progress.
20:16:48 <AL13N> ok
20:16:53 <neoser10> ok... wait for colin
20:17:21 <malo> So they should all be rejects.
20:17:29 <malo> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:AppStream
20:17:47 <sebsebseb> yes accept AppStream! :)
20:18:02 <malo> sebsebseb: please
20:18:26 <MrsB> this would be nice to see, stormi/misc attended something about this when it was first announced
20:18:37 <DavidWHodgins> Who is going to work on it?
20:18:42 <MrsB> I don't think any development has happened with it though
20:18:51 <sebsebseb> I think thre has been
20:18:52 <malo> No volunteer since last meeting, so reject (mga5)
20:18:53 <sebsebseb> if you look on the site for it
20:18:55 <AL13N> yeah, but it needs some work on packagekit with urpmi
20:19:07 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:AutomatedTesting
20:19:14 <sebsebseb> ah AppStream going to 5 hmm
20:19:32 <malo> I had no time to progress, and it's more like R&D.
20:19:33 <AL13N> that would be nice, but i donno if it's doable, we should ask sysadm team
20:19:51 <malo> it needs sysadm indeed
20:19:55 <DavidWHodgins> While some automated testing is useful, my experience is that it can waste time debugging the automated testing.
20:20:01 <AL13N> is there any of them here?
20:20:10 <malo> pterjan: maybe we can talk about it a bit to see what is feasible
20:20:10 <sebsebseb> well malo that's your feature, so I guess it can be accepted
20:20:27 <sebsebseb> oh reading above
20:20:31 <MrsB> It would be very useful though to not strip build time tests from packages that ship them
20:20:48 <ennael> at least find biggest bugs on installer for example
20:20:56 <malo> I would say reject (mga5) so that we don't advertise it, but I will still push it.
20:20:57 <ennael> and not wait alpha or beta release
20:21:31 <sander85> i agree with malo
20:21:32 <DavidWHodgins> I agree with reject (mga5)
20:21:36 <AL13N> malo: ok, but MrsB's suggestion isn't bad, perhaps updates_testing can "not strip" or something
20:21:36 <sebsebseb> malo: there's a owner for Appstreamk, but you said no volunteer?
20:21:57 <AL13N> sebsebseb: resources section
20:21:57 <ennael> we can also plan this feature on 2 releases
20:22:05 <AL13N> yes
20:22:07 <ennael> with an intemediary step for mageia 4
20:22:09 <malo> sebsebseb: he's not a packager/programmer ...
20:22:12 <ennael> or we will never start it
20:22:32 <sebsebseb> AL13N: oh ah,  ah well Mageia 5 should be out next year to, and hopefuly with that :)
20:22:44 <malo> ennael: we can accept it then, but not be too ambitious about it
20:22:59 <sebsebseb> malo: I see
20:23:02 <malo> MrsB: sorry, but don't keep your hopes up too much
20:23:41 <malo> Accept then? with the notice that it's a long term thing
20:24:10 <AL13N> imho that's not much different from reject for mga5, but sure
20:24:10 <DavidWHodgins> Isn't that what reject (mga5) means?
20:24:23 <MrsB> ongoing mga*
20:24:30 <AL13N> if this is better for marketing,you can phrase it like that
20:24:36 <ennael> malo: can we write intermediary steps ?
20:24:52 <AL13N> if it's split up, then maybe we can do one part
20:25:13 <AL13N> but noone talked to sysadmin about this, and it seems like they will need to do a part of the work?
20:26:01 <malo> AL13N: it could be done on individual machines as well
20:26:03 <pterjan> well it includes a lot of things
20:26:13 <AL13N> ic
20:26:13 <malo> it's too open for now
20:26:22 <sebsebseb> AL13N: pterjan is from sysadmin :d
20:26:28 <pterjan> I am planning to do "integrate autobuild in the main infrastructure"
20:26:33 <AL13N> you have my permisission to split it up and accept one part :-)
20:26:48 <malo> Let's make it into a Mageia project and not a release dependent feature then
20:26:50 <pterjan> some others parts are more dev
20:26:51 <ennael> ok maybe we can let it aside and rewrite it to split tasks
20:26:57 <ennael> we will not define it tonight
20:26:58 <tmb> AL13N: well, everyone is free to set up / document automated testing on their own, and when they get it to work, suggest it to others
20:27:22 <malo> For ex, I use some automated testing for ocaml packages
20:27:36 <malo> that was my starting point in a way
20:27:44 <malo> Ok we should move on
20:27:48 <AL13N> yes
20:28:23 <malo> So for that feature, it's desirable, but needs to be broken down
20:28:32 <malo> Next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:DesktopGreeter
20:28:46 <AL13N> how is this differnet from welcome thing?
20:28:58 <malo> AL13N: KDE settings specific
20:29:05 <MrsB> it could link from it
20:29:15 <sander85> AFAIK KDE team wasn't interested..
20:29:17 <sebsebseb> seems it's a KDE specific feature
20:29:22 <malo> I would say we can package it, but not run by default
20:29:27 <sebsebseb> what about GNOME?    GNOME tweak tool?  what about other DE's ?
20:29:27 <AL13N> no resources
20:29:58 <malo> So reject then.
20:30:02 <sander85> yes
20:30:10 <malo> Next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:EditionBasedScreenshots
20:30:10 <MrsB> I could be a link from the welcome
20:30:16 <AL13N> it's not to say it can't be packaged, but not as a feature
20:30:25 <malo> MrsB: yes, but it's a KDE specific thing
20:30:28 <sebsebseb> seems like a nice efeature for KDE to have, but no resources so reject
20:30:54 <sebsebseb> malo: I thought we had the edicaotn based screenshots last time
20:31:14 <malo> sebsebseb: we discussed it.
20:31:15 <sander85> i'd say let it be as it is
20:31:22 <MrsB> I think this refers to the advertising screens during install
20:31:23 <sebsebseb> malo: I was like reject to much  wok for Atelier, on the other hand might be good
20:31:28 * sebsebseb doesn't see anyone from Atelier here, but me
20:31:31 <AL13N> malo: i don't remember anymore what we said for this one
20:31:35 <malo> There was no progress on it in the last weeks
20:31:44 <malo> so reject.
20:31:50 <sander85> yep
20:31:52 <sebsebseb> it was hard enough for Akien to make the installer screens for  Mageia 3 with Trish's text I think :D
20:31:52 <AL13N> ok
20:31:54 <malo> Next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Ranking_system_for_packages
20:32:03 <malo> No progress
20:32:07 <AL13N> reject
20:32:08 <malo> mga5
20:32:10 <malo> reject
20:32:11 <AL13N> it can be in appstream
20:32:18 <MrsB> appstream has this yes
20:32:19 <malo> Next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Spectool_enhancement
20:32:28 <malo> That one was not so clear.
20:32:51 <AL13N> yes, and still not clear
20:32:52 <malo> But it's doable
20:33:21 <AL13N> yes maybe, but it needs to be clarified
20:33:28 <AL13N> can we put this in some other category?
20:33:46 <AL13N> ie: needs clarification?
20:33:46 <malo> the idea is to have SOURCE: https://github.com/sgimenez/laby/commit/24f3fc5fd140b1abc059a73712ac209e2ac259b1
20:33:47 <[mbot> [ A start-up screen (Idea and original code by Pierre Malo) · 24f3fc5 · sgimenez/laby · GitHub ]
20:33:53 <malo> for example
20:34:00 <MrsB> sounds like a simple-ish script
20:34:02 <malo> (sorry about the choice
20:34:06 <AL13N> didn't the new mgarepo thing have this?
20:34:08 <malo> of repos)
20:34:44 <sander85> reject
20:34:46 <malo> instead of the current way where we handle svn or git snapshot by hand
20:35:27 <malo> reject then
20:35:29 <sander85> boklm and coling are working on new mgarepo that should help with some stuff
20:35:48 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:InstallMissingSoftware
20:36:18 <sebsebseb> I would say yes to that, but I think ennael might say no hmm
20:36:29 <AL13N> no resources
20:36:31 <sander85> reject
20:36:34 <MrsB> nonfree drivers are on the ISOs now
20:36:37 <sander85> and no owner
20:36:50 <malo> reject then
20:37:05 <sebsebseb> ok  reject and next?
20:37:11 * coling is just popping in to say he can't really stop to discuss :(
20:37:13 <coling> Sorry about that.
20:37:22 <AL13N> coling: oh
20:37:28 <coling> if there is something I can say in 2mins that would help anything let me know otherwise, happy discussions :)
20:37:30 <sebsebseb> maybe coling's features now then whilst he is here?
20:37:30 <AL13N> i say we reject all of coling's features
20:37:40 <coling> seconded :)
20:37:43 <DavidWHodgins> thirded
20:37:44 * coling is now on holiday
20:37:46 <coling> :)
20:37:48 <AL13N> lol
20:37:51 <sebsebseb> coling: oh holiday where?
20:37:57 <coling> sebsebseb, j/k
20:38:02 <sebsebseb> ah ok :d
20:38:38 <ennael> I guess we will need to take some decisions about colin featue
20:38:41 <malo> coling: your features are      Feature:TidyPackagingPaths    Feature:SystemdInRamdisk
20:38:41 <malo> Feature:SystemdTidyups   Feature:DeprecateXinetd    Feature:NetworkDeviceNameChange   Feature:OfflineUpgrades
20:38:44 <AL13N> yes
20:38:45 <sebsebseb> coling: the plane to Brussules took all your holiday money and the hotel there :d
20:38:51 <coling> :)
20:39:07 <coling> OK, so tidyPackaging and SystemdInRamdisk IMO are just natural evolutions of things.
20:39:10 <AL13N> i say ok for xinetd and crond (except no real deprication)
20:39:14 <coling> As is SystemdTidyups
20:39:35 <coling> The main ones for me really are the NedtowrkDevice and Offline Upgrades
20:39:38 <ryoshu> coling: welcome
20:39:44 <AL13N> network device name change, i don't like it yet, i would like for mga5 instead
20:39:53 <coling> :(
20:39:57 <coling> Why wait?
20:39:57 <ryoshu> coling: I have got a few objections here
20:39:59 <AL13N> offline upgrade is a huge amount of work and QA
20:39:59 <coling> Out of curiosity
20:40:07 <AL13N> coling: noone does it yet
20:40:16 <AL13N> people are familiar with device names
20:40:28 <malo> Sorry everyone, but I have to leave you and get home
20:40:29 <MrsB> offline upgrade *should* cause fewer problems, in theory
20:40:30 <ryoshu> AL13N is right
20:40:31 <sander85> what about fedora?
20:40:31 <coling> AL13N, true but it does mean we have to maintain the really horribly and buggy generator stuff.
20:40:40 <malo> ennael will finish :-)
20:40:45 <AL13N> besides in 5 months, this whole device name thing will go alot easier
20:40:51 <malo> night
20:40:53 <neoser10> the network device name is very need in intel multi ethernet device
20:40:57 <AL13N> coling: that's true
20:40:57 <diogenese> Thanks malo.
20:40:58 <MrsB> nite malo
20:40:59 <AL13N> malo: ok
20:40:59 <coling> malo, night :)
20:41:30 <ryoshu> coling: out of curiosity, are we really sure to move all things to PID1 and init?
20:41:35 <coling> AL13N, currently we have to patch udev to support the renaming but this may become increasingly awkward.
20:41:36 <AL13N> imho even in that case, there is no specific requirement yet, mac address still works
20:41:42 <coling> ryoshu, nothing really moves to PID1.
20:41:46 <Luigi12_work> Fedora 19 has the network device naming thing implemented
20:41:49 <coling> ryoshu, not sure what you mean by that.
20:41:57 <Luigi12_work> it will allow us to get rid of HORRIBLE stuff like the udev rule
20:42:09 <AL13N> coling: your offline upgrade will already take too much time and we will get a bunch of bugs for device name change
20:42:11 * coling hates that udev rule.
20:42:14 <AL13N> old apps and such
20:42:22 <ryoshu> coling: systemd starts with PID1, right? and then runs as PID1 for all of its features?
20:42:28 <AL13N> coling: we eventually need to go there, no discussion about that
20:42:31 <coling> ryoshu, no of course not.
20:42:37 <ryoshu> coling: how is it?
20:42:46 <AL13N> coling: i would just rather wait one more release
20:42:52 <coling> ryoshu, systemd itself is PID1 but most of the utilitys and infrastructure it provides are not run in PID1 itself.
20:42:54 * ennael up on the table and whistles the end of the playground
20:43:02 <AL13N> fedora is not stable really
20:43:10 <Luigi12_work> lol
20:43:17 <ennael> ok guys :)
20:43:20 <coling> :)
20:43:23 <AL13N> :)
20:43:27 <ennael> sorry I'm a girl and I'm monotask :)
20:43:31 <ryoshu> coling: in case of failure of utilities, can it be respawned?
20:43:42 <ennael> so can we go one at a time
20:43:46 <coling> ryoshu, lets discuss another time as ennael want's order :)
20:44:02 <ennael> or it will take 2 or 3 more meetings :)
20:44:12 <ryoshu> coling: OK, thanks
20:44:13 <sander85> tidyPackaging and SystemdInRamdis - accept
20:44:23 <sander85> SystemdTidyups - accept
20:44:32 <ennael> thanks sander85
20:44:39 <coling> OK fine for me so far.
20:44:46 <ennael> of course :)
20:44:47 <AL13N> deprecate cron and xinetd -- accept (except no real deprecation)
20:44:51 <sander85> coling: <ennael> first beta 2013/10/31
20:45:06 <sebsebseb> coling: all your feautures ready by Beta 1
20:45:09 * Luigi12_work hates the moving of stuff out of xinetd in Fedora 19 BTW
20:45:10 <sebsebseb> coling: completed I mean
20:45:13 <sander85> coling: <ennael> also all features will have to be finalized before beta 1
20:45:46 <coling> Yeah, perhaps some are a bit ambitious then. OK, lets' leave the offline upgrades for now.
20:45:51 <coling> It'll likely take most work.
20:46:00 <AL13N> you sure?
20:46:03 <coling> It'll mean lots of edge cases for QA again on upgrade.
20:46:07 <coling> But such is life.
20:46:30 <ennael> can you move it to mageia 5 ?
20:46:32 <ennael> in category
20:46:34 <AL13N> coling: perhaps you need to phase offline upgrades and work on it without it being committed
20:46:36 <coling> I should think so yeah.
20:46:40 <coling> Indeed.
20:47:08 <DavidWHodgins> It would be nice to have for Mageia 4, if possible.
20:47:20 <MrsB> if you find youself with too much time though..
20:47:28 <sander85> ok, so no offline upgrades but i'd still rename network devices :P
20:47:28 <AL13N> also, we can gradually start to use native systemd for cron and xinetd stuff, i see no trouble that that, even if we don't finish
20:47:37 <coling> I'll probably have a fair bit to do in infra with boklm anyway so this is probably sensible for now. We've managed this long with it how it is so one more round will likely not hurt too much.
20:47:56 <coling> AL13N, yeah, there is no harm in not completing it.
20:47:58 <ennael> ok
20:48:03 <AL13N> still, the pango upgrade issue was hurtful
20:48:08 <coling> And dbus
20:48:15 <AL13N> we're already used to that one
20:48:17 <AL13N> :-)
20:48:25 <MrsB> we survived /usrmove \o/
20:48:35 <AL13N> hopefull we can avoid pango issue this time
20:48:36 <coling> Yeah - surprisingly :)
20:48:37 <neoclust> :)
20:48:41 <AL13N> :)
20:48:42 <neoclust> coling: :)
20:48:46 <AL13N> ok, so what is left?
20:48:48 <neoclust> coling: you are the best :)
20:48:57 <coling> NetworkName...
20:49:06 <coling> How about I commit the change and see how much people hate it?
20:49:09 <AL13N> the only one left?
20:49:13 <DavidWHodgins> reject completly.
20:49:19 <coling> We can back it out in a month or two if we don't like it?
20:49:28 <coling> (it's only a udev rule after all).
20:49:30 <AL13N> coling: realistically... what kind of issues will we have during upgrade?
20:49:43 <coling> AL13N, related to the network name?
20:49:46 <AL13N> keep in mind NM which changes whenever something changes
20:49:50 <coling> Mostly configs in apps really.
20:50:04 <coling> But keep in mind if people have generator rules they stay in place.
20:50:11 <AL13N> keep in mine online ugrade
20:50:17 <coling> I'd actually vote to NOT enable the rules on upgrade anyway.
20:50:21 <AL13N> ic
20:50:21 <coling> Only apply it to new installs.
20:50:23 <DavidWHodgins> It would break apps with nic in config files.
20:50:38 <AL13N> DavidWHodgins: if we only have this on new ones.... maybe
20:50:55 <DavidWHodgins> That would make it more complicated, since we'd have to support both naming methods.
20:50:56 <sander85> sounds good to do like we did with systemd migration
20:50:58 <AL13N> is there MCC wizard stuff with interface naming that might have issyes?
20:51:05 <AL13N> i think shorewall and the like?
20:51:09 <coling> DavidWHodgins, not quite
20:51:26 <coling> DavidWHodgins, I'd back out the renaming logic in udev which is racy.
20:51:41 <coling> DavidWHodgins, and instead go with a kernel solution that numbers eth devices starting at non 0. e.g. 100
20:51:54 <coling> Then when any udev rules kick in there will be very little chance of a name conflict.
20:52:06 <coling> This is a much more robust solution than the current racy renaming.
20:52:15 <DavidWHodgins> On an upgrade, and config files in /home, that reference the nic, would have problems.
20:52:35 <coling> DavidWHodgins, as said above I would not active the rules on upgrade, only new installs.
20:52:36 <AL13N> what if we don't do it for upgrade?
20:52:39 <coling> So upgrades carry on.
20:52:46 <coling> No changes.
20:52:54 <Luigi12_work> plus if people don't like the new device naming, it's easy to disable
20:52:56 <DavidWHodgins> So we have to support both naming methods.
20:53:19 <sander85> DavidWHodgins: well, it's mostly only naming..
20:53:22 <coling> DavidWHodgins, no, like I say the current scheme for renaming ethN to ethN would be dropped and replaced by a simpler one.
20:53:31 <Luigi12_work> you have to support both regardless, but the current one already works.  But the udev rule will still be dropped.
20:53:41 <Luigi12_work> Honestly the udev rule is one of the biggest mis-features in mageia.  It's gotta go.
20:53:52 <coling> DavidWHodgins, the racy ugly stuff would go in favour of honoring existing udev rules, but no new rules would be generated.
20:54:16 <ennael> any feedback from fedora on that point ?
20:54:17 <coling> DavidWHodgins, i.e. the generators would not be shipped but any rules they have previously generated would be honoured in a non-racy way.
20:54:21 <Luigi12_work> as stated before, Fedora has already implemented this in Fedora 19
20:54:28 <sander85> i'd say accept and let's move on :)
20:54:33 <Luigi12_work> yes, accept
20:54:38 <ennael> wait
20:54:43 <ennael> any feedback from fedora on that point ?
20:54:47 <Luigi12_work> on what point?
20:54:51 <Luigi12_work> they already implemented it, it works
20:54:55 <AL13N> i think QA team has to do test upgrade and new install anyway
20:55:04 <MrsB> not just qa team :P
20:55:14 <AL13N> Luigi12_work: what she means is is there negative user feedback?
20:55:24 <ennael> AL13N: she can explain
20:55:26 <Luigi12_work> Fedora 19 just came out two weeks ago!
20:55:27 <sebsebseb> Yeah packagers can help with that stuff to such as you AL13N :d
20:55:28 <sander85> well, i haven't hear any such feedback
20:55:28 <coling> ennael, Not sure if there was much anger about it. Lots of sysadms have been bitten by this
20:55:41 <coling> I know I've been locked out of servers because of it :(
20:55:46 <AL13N> hmm
20:55:54 <AL13N> so this is why we cannod do this on upgrades
20:55:55 <ennael> coling: does it look doable to get it done for alpha1 as a sand box
20:55:55 <coling> (the racy renaming I mean)
20:55:56 <Luigi12_work> I wouldn't expect much anyway, Fedora has already named the network devices differently in Fedora 16 as well, so Fedora users are already used to this sort of thing
20:55:56 <AL13N> no matter what
20:56:22 <AL13N> Luigi12_work: will it last? or are they gonna go change it again?
20:56:25 <Luigi12_work> AL13N: Fedora doesn't activate it on F18->F19 upgrades either, just new installs
20:56:41 <coling> ennael, it's just a udev rule so it's pretty simple
20:56:44 <tmb> I'd say drop the patch for alpha1 and re-discuss it when we see how it works...
20:56:47 <Luigi12_work> AL13N: that's a fair question, but the intent is for this to be a more permanent solution than biosdevname (Fedora 16's thing) was
20:57:14 <MrsB> agree with tmb, it's what alphas are designed for
20:57:24 <AL13N> if coling can make it for mga1 alpha, then we can try this for now
20:57:31 <AL13N> that's my pov
20:57:32 * coling can
20:57:34 <ennael> so let release alpha1 with it
20:57:34 * MrsB suffering lag, sorry
20:57:37 <Luigi12_work> ok, so accept, must be done by alpha or it gets pushed to mga5
20:57:45 <sebsebseb> AL13N: mga1 alpha :d  mga4 alpha 1 even :d
20:57:50 <AL13N> tentatively accept
20:57:53 <DavidWHodgins> So, accept, but conditionally?
20:57:58 <AL13N> yes
20:58:02 <AL13N> agreed
20:58:06 * coling has to go. I doubt my BootPartion one will go through.
20:58:06 <ennael> yes we will speak about it after alpha1 is out
20:58:15 <coling> So I'll keep on at that with a view to MGA5 too.
20:58:16 <sebsebseb> coling: yes that's a probably a reject
20:58:18 * coling has to go
20:58:25 <Luigi12_work> byes
20:58:25 <ennael> ok thanks coling for attending
20:58:26 <sebsebseb> coling: ok bye for now night
20:58:27 <MrsB> nite coling
20:58:45 <diogenese> bye coling
20:58:49 <AL13N> well, i donno about bootpartition, after reflection, it's not the best, but i'm not really that against it
20:58:53 <AL13N> (anymore)
20:59:06 <sebsebseb> it's a big debatable one probably best to leave it for now
20:59:09 <ennael> ok we have done coling one
20:59:11 <AL13N> otoh, perhaps waiting until other distro's stabelize this
20:59:15 <sebsebseb> seems he will probably somthing simialr for Mageia 5 anyway if it's left
20:59:16 <Luigi12_work> I haven't ready the updated proposal, but I hope it's still not talking about using FAT32...seriously now
20:59:30 <sebsebseb> propose above
20:59:43 <AL13N> Luigi12_work: well... i don't like it either
20:59:52 <sander85> ok, what's next?
20:59:55 <sebsebseb> Luigi12_work: I think it's probably still talking about Fat32
21:00:00 <ennael> did we sort out https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Tool_for_writing_iso_on_USB_stick ?
21:00:04 <AL13N> Luigi12_work: i'm still hoping for a integrated FFS with ext4/btrfs driver inside
21:00:20 <tmb> well, we need fat32 for UEFI boot,
21:00:21 <AL13N> ennael: we didn't talk about it today
21:00:31 <sebsebseb> ennael: I don't remember, but the USB tool would be good to have :)
21:00:35 <AL13N> tmb: there might be another way
21:00:42 <Luigi12_work> there has to be another way
21:00:42 <sebsebseb> AL13N: some were done two weeks ago
21:01:00 <ennael> ok it seems we have people to work on it
21:01:07 <sander85> yes
21:01:08 <ennael> and it's a tool to have for end users
21:01:13 <sebsebseb> ok so accepted :) ?
21:01:16 <Luigi12_work> is it technically possible for something to detect whether or not an ISO needs to be unbootified or not?
21:01:23 <AL13N> tmb: i read some part of it and it seems it also (next to fat32 and fat16, it also supports FFS filesystem, for autoloading drivers)
21:01:51 <sander85> can we please go on with other proposals?
21:01:54 <AL13N> ok
21:01:55 <ennael> Luigi12_work: this can be discussed with the guys working on it
21:02:12 <Luigi12_work> ok, well I wouldn't say "accept" then if they aren't here
21:02:30 <Luigi12_work> because if it's possible to detect, it'd make sense to fix unetbootin to do the right thing for our ISOs rather than making a new tool
21:02:52 <MrsB> 'how do I install from usb' is one of the most asked questions, it'd be nice to see a proper thing for this. Mint use mintstick,which was usb-imagewriter iinm, we could re-use this
21:02:55 <AL13N> there's this usbwriter thing
21:03:02 <AL13N> i saw an email about this
21:03:22 <ennael> Luigi12_work: the tool is accepted what tool needs still to be defined
21:03:22 <MrsB> mint is hybrid isos now too
21:03:26 <Luigi12_work> right, so if there's existing tools, it's better to fix them, as people will still use them whether we want them to or not
21:03:27 <ennael> whateve the tool
21:03:27 <AL13N> i would think unetbootin would need to have a fix
21:03:36 <AL13N> we should talk to ubuntu and demand a "raw" option
21:03:38 <DavidWHodgins> http://www.ody.ca/~dwhodgins/copyiso2usbX already written. Needs some small mods, and I need to learn how to make it suitable for an rpm package.
21:04:03 <sander85> neeeeeext :)
21:04:04 <ennael> one is enough but it can be discussed late :)
21:04:09 <sander85> (sry, getting late :P)
21:04:16 <Luigi12_work> ok so tabled for now, discuss more later, next
21:04:17 <ennael> it was the last one on my list (phew)
21:04:54 <sander85> \o/
21:04:58 <AL13N> there was an email on -dev list today at 19:22
21:05:01 <AL13N> about usb writer
21:05:09 <ennael> good job guys :) and without blood
21:05:13 <AL13N> "Creating USB stick in MCC" by papoteur
21:05:29 <ennael> so we will sum up it in wiki and work on a blog post about planning and featues
21:05:30 <AL13N> ennael: is there any others that still need debating?
21:05:35 <ennael> features
21:05:50 <ennael> AL13N: stop talking and follow better :)
21:05:57 <MrsB> Feature:GetToBedOnTime
21:06:02 <AL13N> :)
21:06:08 <AL13N> sorry, i was trying to find that email
21:06:12 * ennael is impressed by AL13N who talks much more than her son, 4 years old
21:06:29 <AL13N> no way, my 4y old daughter talks way more than me
21:06:32 <AL13N> :-)
21:06:38 <MrsB> and sings
21:06:42 <ennael> ok let's end meeting unless there something to discuss
21:06:45 <AL13N> k
21:06:47 <sebsebseb> ennael: there were more
21:06:51 <sebsebseb> propoals I think
21:07:10 <Luigi12_work> yeah, like the ones from mga3 that got delayed
21:07:19 <Luigi12_work> but those probably don't need re-discussed
21:07:32 <ennael> they were not proposed...
21:07:46 <ennael> it does not mean peole can't work on it
21:07:56 <AL13N> ok
21:08:00 <Luigi12_work> ok
21:08:01 <AL13N> let's end the meeting
21:08:06 <Luigi12_work> :D
21:08:07 <neoser10> yes,
21:08:22 <ennael> ok thanks for attending and see you in 2 weeks
21:08:30 <sebsebseb> really all features done now ?
21:08:32 <sebsebseb> gone through them all ?
21:08:35 <ennael> #endmeeting