19:06:56 <ennael> #startmeeting
19:06:56 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Tue Jul  2 19:06:56 2013 UTC.  The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:06:56 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:07:04 <ennael> hi all and thanks for attending
19:07:17 <sebsebseb> Guten Abend
19:07:36 <malo> hi everyone
19:07:51 <marja> hi all
19:07:57 <aleksjan> hi
19:08:14 <Adrien_D> Hi all
19:08:15 <sebsebseb> Bonjour
19:08:20 <ennael> so first topic
19:08:25 <ennael> #topic new comers and mentoring: we are looking for more mentors!
19:08:31 <ennael> don't move !
19:08:37 <marja> :)
19:08:42 <ennael> ok can we start with new comers?
19:09:22 <malo> this week we have aleksjan, who is currently waiting for a mentor
19:09:32 <aleksjan> malo: right
19:09:56 <aleksjan> malo: i'm planning to be more or less active this and next 2 weeks. then I'm out for vacation for 4 weeks..
19:10:12 <rindolf> malo: can I mentor him/her?
19:10:16 <malo> ryoshu and I already helped aleksjan for two packages
19:10:29 <malo> rindolf: you may :-)
19:10:45 <malo> rindolf: he might be in the same timezone actually
19:10:52 <aleksjan> malo: and I'm not really sure that I will have time (but who knows) for packaging things during that time
19:12:02 <aleksjan> malo: but the patch for fossil was not right - the things ryoshu advised are still to be done. besides it seems that fossil embeds ssl, zlib, tcl, which can be used as shared libs as well
19:12:12 <malo> aleksjan: no problem, just tell your mentor and me if you're away, so that we don't send you useless emails.
19:12:18 <marja> aleksjan: you can add yourself to the table on this page, when you're on holiday https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Absent
19:12:44 <malo> aleksjan: you can discuss fossil on #mageia-mentoring :-).
19:13:04 <ennael> anybody else?
19:13:08 <malo> Anyone else new?
19:14:16 <malo> Basically, we are quite packed in term of mentoring now.
19:14:53 <malo> So, we need (1) new mentors (2) to make our current apprentices graduate to free existing mentors
19:15:07 <marja> :)
19:15:47 * marja misread, she thought malo wanted the apprentices to graduate, so they could become mentors, too
19:15:55 <malo> also david_david has zezinho as mentor, but he's not available, so if someone else could help him get started it would be great.
19:16:23 <malo> marja: I started mentoring only a few months after graduating
19:16:44 <neoclust> AL13N: +1 mails are more than useless, in development ML, i think this should be avoided.
19:16:48 <marja> malo: wow! good example :)
19:16:56 <neoclust> ooops sorry
19:17:15 * ennael slaps neoclust
19:17:24 <malo> #info new mentors are needed, in order to continue welcoming new apprentices
19:17:58 <neoclust> malo: we have a lot of apprentice w/o mentors ?
19:17:58 <ennael> we should have one new as soon as pterjan has finalized the process with him
19:19:22 <ennael> well we could have more apprentices :)
19:19:22 <malo> neoclust: not really, as the current people in the waiting table do not seem around (except Crox, who will be mentored by pterjan)
19:19:41 <malo> but david_david would need someone
19:20:06 <ennael> malo: I'm pretty sure neoclust  is the one :)
19:20:56 <malo> it would be great if mentors could help me track apprentices progress
19:21:11 <malo> through the table at the bottom of https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Becoming_a_Mageia_Packager
19:21:27 <diogenese> nitech_us_slt_arctic_hts
19:21:39 <neoclust> ennael: no i have srtxg already
19:21:40 <diogenese> Oops, sorry.
19:22:33 <malo> #info mentors should tell me (malo) about the progress of their apprentices
19:22:59 <ennael> malo: what about mailing them regularly?
19:23:12 <malo> #info mageia-mentoring is very active these days, so apprentices should not hesitate to come there and get their spec reviewed
19:23:22 <malo> ennael: I can do.
19:23:36 <ennael> maybe every 2 weeks before meeting
19:23:56 <neoclust> malo: for spec files i have an idea
19:24:09 <neoclust> malo: in fedora, apprentice open a bugreport for each spec file
19:24:11 <neoclust> to add review
19:24:47 <neoclust> malo: i think this is a good way
19:25:02 <marja> neoclust: also for updated spec files, or only for totally new ones?
19:25:58 <neoclust> updated ones too. but i think that to start only new one should be good
19:26:44 <marja> neoclust: and does it get a certain keyword.... does only the mentor get cc'ed, or the mentoring team, too?
19:26:49 <Akien> That sounds good (and that explains why the bug numbers in Fedora are so high :pà
19:27:15 <malo> neoclust: it's a good idea, and some specs are reviewed this way. I also like the fact that it's possible to just come up with a nopaste link. It lowers the bureaucracy.
19:27:18 <Akien> We could have an "apprentice" keyword, then the packagers could go through the list with a saved search.
19:27:22 * marja thinks it sounds good, too, but we need to implement it correctly
19:27:31 <AL13N> until commit access this is good
19:28:08 <neoclust> Akien: yes a keyword like this could help
19:28:10 <malo> we could try it out with some current apprentices and see if it's convenient, before making it policy
19:28:29 <neoclust> malo: i am not fan of nopaste link i prefer all in the bugreport without external link
19:28:49 <malo> Anyway, maybe we shouldn't spend time on that, considering the agenda tonight ...
19:29:13 <neoclust> yes sorry :)
19:29:15 <malo> neoclust: makes sense, I'll try it with my apprentices.
19:29:32 <malo> marja: feel free to do it this way as well :-)
19:29:58 <marja> malo: I'll cc you ;)
19:30:23 <malo> marja: damn :-)
19:30:28 <marja> grinz
19:30:35 <malo> ennael: over to you!
19:30:48 <ennael> ok :)
19:31:45 <ennael> #topic Mageia 4 planning
19:32:31 <ennael> so Mageia 4 planning
19:32:55 <Kharec> hi there
19:33:18 <ennael> As I'm a naughty girl I should have sent a planning to the council last week but real life was stronger :)
19:33:26 <ennael> so I'll do it just after this meeting
19:33:32 <ennael> anyway the big dates
19:34:05 <ennael> we want to be ambitious and we agreed on 1rst of february for the final release
19:34:22 <sebsebseb> yeah I was wondering what happended to the planning for the council or in general :d
19:34:40 <sander85> what about major gnome version?
19:34:47 <ennael> meaning releasing for FOSDEM
19:34:47 <sander85> kde will be frozen but gnome?
19:35:07 <ennael> Gnome:  Oct 16, 2013 GNOME 3.10.1
19:35:16 <sebsebseb> sander85: GNOME 3.10 for Mageia 3 it will mean.  3.12 won't be untill  end of March anyway, so hopefuly can be backported when it comes out :)
19:35:16 <ennael> KDE: January 7, 2014: KDE SC 4.11.5 release
19:35:38 <sander85> sebsebseb: we don't backport DEs :)
19:35:39 <sebsebseb> sander85: uh Magiea 4 I meant above
19:36:07 <AL13N> this is fine
19:36:16 <sander85> fine by me
19:36:44 <AL13N> i would hope we could get a much shorter freeze period and features that are completed BEFORE freeze
19:36:46 <Akien> IIRC we won't ship KDE SC 4.11.5, it's too close to the release, no?
19:37:00 <neoclust> Akien: why ?
19:37:13 <neoclust> Akien: we already did this the previous releases :)
19:37:14 <ennael> Akien: we will :)
19:37:21 <Akien> Well in January everything will be frozen, we'll be in the last beta
19:37:30 <ennael> it's kind of usual to have such case
19:37:35 <Akien> Alright, find by me :)
19:37:42 <neoclust> Akien: look for mga3 and when we released KDE 4.9.x :)
19:37:45 <Akien> s/find/fine/
19:37:48 <neoclust> Akien: we are mad in kde team :)
19:37:54 <Akien> \o/
19:37:58 <neoclust> Akien: we fear nothing :)
19:37:58 <Akien> I'll have to join the team :p
19:38:01 <ennael> version freeze should happen in the beginning of november
19:38:08 <neoclust> Akien: you are welcome :)
19:38:09 * sebsebseb hopes for Mageia 5 next year to, looks likely  if  Jan  is Mageia 4 :d  9 months release cycle :d
19:38:09 <sander85> so first alpha is when? how much do we have time for features?
19:38:13 <sebsebseb> 12 months in a year
19:38:16 <ennael> and RC before christmas
19:38:39 <AL13N> ennael: perhaps would could have a much shorter freeze period, like december
19:38:42 <sander85> ennael: RC before christmas?
19:38:44 <neoclust> RC=> Ready for Christmas
19:38:45 <sander85> sure?
19:38:46 <ennael> AL13N: no
19:39:05 * coling is here :) \o/
19:39:07 <sander85> RC... is release candidate.. please don't forget that..
19:39:09 <neoclust> cassmodiah: :)
19:39:10 <marja> neoclust: ;(
19:39:16 <marja> oops
19:39:18 <Adrien_D> :) neoclust :)
19:39:18 <ennael> sander85: it leaves 1 month for final release
19:39:22 <marja> neoclust: :)
19:39:27 <ennael> + christmas time
19:39:39 <AL13N> ah, ic
19:39:47 <marja> coling: welcome
19:39:53 <neoclust> ennael: and we have to keep in mind that during christmas vacations we may have less available people
19:39:53 <AL13N> yes, i understand this
19:39:56 <sander85> ennael: better make it last beta and release RC 2 weeks before release
19:40:01 <sander85> to really test RC
19:40:03 <neoclust> ennael: for the lengh of the freeze
19:40:15 * coling didn't touch computer for ~2weeks over xmas last year FWIW. And it was lovely.
19:40:16 <malo> sander85: 2 weeks is not enough
19:40:20 <ennael> sander85: features should be developped until first beta
19:40:31 <sander85> malo: for RC it's enough
19:40:39 <sander85> it's RC, it should be ready for release
19:40:53 <sander85> look kernel or LO
19:40:55 <ennael> "should"
19:41:00 <AL13N> and no RC2 unless absolutely necessary
19:41:16 <ennael> the thing is people start testing isos at RC stage
19:41:18 <sander85> i'm not against RC2 if RC one is broken
19:41:31 <neoclust> ennael: you have a good point here
19:41:45 <sander85> but claming having a RC when we really have a beta
19:41:48 <sebsebseb> yep have the RC a month or so before the expected final :)
19:41:52 <malo> sander85: don't forget that the release should be ready 1 week before release date
19:41:52 <AL13N> since version freeze is november, i will take this as a time where features *SHOULD* be ready
19:42:20 <neoclust> sander85: yes nice perfect, but please try to read what other people say
19:42:25 <neoclust> sander85: this is usefull
19:42:52 <sander85> neoclust: i'm reading :) and seeing marketing, not quality
19:42:58 <AL13N> ennael: i will try to send regular email wrt features and the completion status so that hopefully features will be ready by the time version freeze is there, so that bugs can be solved at version freeze
19:43:03 <ennael> sander85: please
19:43:20 <ennael> it's not marketing it's a question of getting enough feedbacks to release
19:43:42 <ennael> and we plan some kind of internal release 1 week before final date
19:43:46 <neoclust> ennael: again agreed with you
19:44:01 <malo> sander85: if the RC is too close there is no time to fix bugs and go through a few pre-iso.
19:44:05 <sander85> that's why i'm saying it's not bad to have multiple RCs
19:44:35 <ennael> sander85: this will depend on the state of the RC really
19:44:36 <neoclust> sander85: no you told "i'm not against RC2 if RC one is broken" this is not exactly the same
19:44:40 <sander85> it's better if we have one broken and we do fixes for one month and then release w/o testing them
19:44:54 <ennael> ?
19:45:07 <malo> sander85: if you knew better what QA is doing, you would know that between the *public* RC and release, there are many *private* pre-releases
19:45:32 <sander85> malo: i'm sitting on that channel, i think i know :)
19:45:41 * MrsB is here, was just reading back
19:45:43 <sander85> but qa has very limited hardware
19:46:01 <ennael> sander85: that's why we need external feedbacks
19:46:05 <ennael> and time to get it
19:46:18 <neoclust> so a longer freeze
19:46:27 <sander85> yeah :/
19:46:37 <neoclust> sander85: not ":/"
19:46:55 <coling> Well freeze can be a bit of a demotivator for some.
19:47:04 <AL13N> i personally believe a longer freeze is not good, but so be it... there's vacation in there anyway...
19:47:04 <coling> So :/ is justified at times.
19:47:08 <malo> and a requirement that all features should be stable in the first beta
19:47:10 <ennael> well we cannot release with bugs
19:47:15 <coling> Indeed.
19:47:21 <neoclust> coling: sander85 don't stop to complain so i am tired of ":/"
19:47:33 <neoclust> s/don't/doesn't/
19:47:34 <neoclust> :)
19:47:49 <AL13N> the way i see it... we have until end of octobre to get features ready
19:47:57 <neoclust> coling: i don't like freeze neither but this is a "must do"
19:47:57 <AL13N> (or we should aim for that anyway)
19:48:07 <ennael> yes
19:48:20 <neoclust> AL13N: sound good
19:48:27 <MrsB> it's a tight schedule and we'll need to be organised going about it
19:48:35 <coling> As a longer term compromise here, would a different workflow help? e.g. branching early and commit to the branches instead of cauldron. Most people switch over the release branch and do the tests but others can still push newer stuff to cauldron. That seemed to work OK for fedora IIRC.
19:48:35 <malo> basically, this time we want a shorter release cycle, probably at the cost of heavy features, hopefully to favor stability
19:48:46 <sander85> i'm just worried that mga3 will be repeated :(
19:48:47 <AL13N> i will once a month notify people of their features and request to update their progress page on the wiki (which didn't happen in mga3)
19:48:48 <coling> Or would that just cause fragmentation of resources.
19:48:58 <neoclust> coling: i fear we have not enough manpower for this "yet"
19:49:02 <malo> coling: it would.
19:49:07 <AL13N> neoclust: i agree
19:49:40 <neoclust> sander85: yes i fear too about this, i fear we produce a good distribution :/
19:49:43 <ennael> sander85: mga3 will not be repeated if we choose properly our priorities in features
19:49:49 <ennael> and if we stop it at beta stage
19:49:59 <ennael> even if this means less features
19:50:03 <AL13N> yes, it's better to have less bugs than more features
19:50:16 <DavidWHodgins> Plus backing out a feature, if it isn't ready for the betas.
19:50:17 <sander85> i'm ok with current RC plan if there will be RC2 if needed, not like happened with mga3 where we skipped it
19:50:38 <neoclust> ennael: git will be good for this, we will be allowed to do branches and work on it even if not ready for distro N this will be mergeable for N+1
19:50:42 <sander85> DavidWHodgins: well, you can't back out some stuff
19:50:44 <AL13N> i would prefer our first beta to have the RC quality of last mga3 (wrt bugs)
19:51:12 <AL13N> sander85: if you branch properly, it can
19:51:19 <ennael> that's why we ask people to fill properly the wiki with features
19:51:23 <AL13N> yes
19:51:27 <ennael> ti have as many details as possible
19:51:47 <AL13N> i will try to manage feature completion and give warning if it looks like we can't complete it
19:52:12 <ennael> we will do some features review and check how it goes
19:52:30 <MrsB> maybe once a meeting rather than once a month AL13N?
19:52:37 <ennael> basically meetings will focus on features until beta
19:52:41 <sebsebseb> sander85: Mageia 3 didn't get a extra RC 2 no, it got a extra Beta 4 though
19:52:43 <ennael> then it will focus on bugs
19:52:56 <AL13N> MrsB: sure, but i don't think every meeting needs to discuss all the features
19:53:05 <sander85> maybe i missed it but first alpha and feature freeze is when?
19:53:09 <MrsB> it can help to do so though as a motivator
19:53:44 <ennael> sander85: as announced in previous meeting freeze of proposals for features is tonight
19:54:07 <ennael> so we will close it very soon
19:54:11 <AL13N> there's already alot of features
19:54:20 <sander85> ennael: not proposals but the time when features should be quite ready and when we decide if they will be included for release?
19:54:28 <malo> ennael: we should actually declare it closed now.
19:54:38 <AL13N> features should be completed by version freeze 1st november
19:54:52 <sebsebseb> ennael: I think someone wanted to request some features, but he's to ill at the moment or whatever it was, but looking by the recently proposed features we probably got more than enough already anyway :d
19:54:52 <sander85> AL13N: i think that's too late
19:54:52 <ennael> malo: yep so all the one proposed on -dev are not taken into account?
19:54:56 <ennael> do we agree on that ?
19:55:13 <AL13N> fine for me
19:55:28 <malo> ennael: they are all in the wiki as far as I can tell. There are currently 42 feature proposals
19:55:30 <Akien> Starting from now, or the ones proposed today?
19:55:43 <ennael> the ones proposed this afternoon
19:55:44 <sebsebseb> 31 to 42 oh
19:56:11 <malo> I meant from now (20:00 UTC or something).
19:56:12 <sander85> some "features" are quite easy to exclude
19:56:26 <malo> sander85: we will do that in a minute
19:56:28 <AL13N> malo: i agree
19:56:32 <Akien> The ones from this afternoon followed the policy, so I'd say starting from now 20 UTC.
19:56:46 * sebsebseb hopes Mate and I guess Cinnamon to gets in there this time, even though  well new DE's and stricer release cycle and all that this time to
19:56:57 <ennael> Akien: just saw it in the wiki
19:57:17 <ennael> ok give us until tomorrow evening with malo
19:57:22 <ennael> to review the very last one
19:57:33 <ennael> and ask for more details when needed before take some decisions
19:57:36 <ennael> is that ok ?
19:57:38 <AL13N> ok
19:58:07 <malo> ennael: do an info on release dates
19:58:31 <ennael> yep
19:58:47 <ennael> #info final release will be the 1rst of february
19:58:57 <sebsebseb> uh
19:58:58 <sebsebseb> that's FOSDEM
19:59:04 <ennael> #info version freeze is planned in the beginning of november
19:59:14 <sebsebseb> I thought was going to release a bit before FOSDEM?
19:59:22 <ennael> #info RC should happen before christmas
20:00:06 <malo> sebsebseb: the iso needs to be ready a few days before release date
20:00:10 <ennael> #info final planning will be communicated in coming days
20:00:26 <Akien> sebsebseb: The idea is to release _on_ FOSDEM :)
20:00:41 <DavidWHodgins> malo: At least a week before, so qa has time to test them.
20:00:41 <sebsebseb> malo: ok so QA or whatever will have the final ISO a bit before anyone else?  means  final CD's can be burnt for FOSDEM, before people go there?
20:00:44 <ennael> #info Mageia 4 features proposals are now closed
20:01:02 <MrsB> that's the plan sebsebseb
20:01:12 <sebsebseb> Akien: ok like Ubuntu I guess then, where it's probably ready a  few days or so before, but then they release on  Thursday's and hype it up
20:01:40 <MrsB> it's why it's so important the dev work is concluded early
20:01:56 <malo> DavidWHodgins: I meant the final iso, after QA green light
20:02:07 <sebsebseb> ok that makes sense if it's actsauly ready the release itself in Janurary :)  then can release on 1st Feb sure
20:02:43 <ennael> well we have mixed features and planning topics but it does not matter
20:03:01 <MrsB> release is a major feature :)
20:03:04 <ennael> any question on all this?
20:03:09 <ennael> MrsB: indeed
20:05:22 <ennael> sander85: hope you saw that https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:New_Mgarepo :)
20:06:44 <ennael> ok are they all dead ? or already working on features ?
20:06:48 <sander85> ennael: i didn't, but it seems nice.. thanks for linking :)
20:06:54 <ennael> ;)
20:07:59 <sebsebseb> yeah bye bye SVN hello Git I guess
20:08:05 <AL13N> we're just waiting until next topic
20:08:25 <ennael> well next topic was about features
20:10:45 <ennael> #topic mageia 4 features
20:12:39 <sebsebseb> hi tarakbumba :)
20:12:47 <ennael> we will start a bit to take decision tonight
20:12:57 <ennael> to avoid having 42 features to review newt meeting
20:13:17 <ennael> some are quite evident when there is nobody to work on it
20:14:05 <tarakbumba> hi all
20:14:11 <MrsB> hi tarakbumba
20:14:13 <tarakbumba> I'm late... Sorry
20:14:31 <ennael> sorry we are trying to think a bit before with malo
20:14:36 <ennael> hard to be multitask :)
20:14:47 <malo> Ok, so let's review a few to start with.
20:15:17 <malo> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:AppStream
20:16:19 <sebsebseb> I think AppStream would be great, if it's ready enough for Mageia :)  plus Mageia was one of the distro's that was supporting it and such
20:16:33 <malo> This was proposed today, so it was not much discussed: we can let the author elaborate it until next meeting, and any volunteer to declare hisself.
20:16:54 <MrsB> I'm sure stormi attended a conference about this when it was first proposed. May be worth discussing it with him
20:16:55 <tarakbumba> malo: i think so too.
20:17:03 <sebsebseb> MrsB: not sure about stormi, but misc did
20:17:28 <MrsB> could be wrong, it rings a bell though
20:17:29 <malo> I remind everyone that we should not only judge the coolness of features, but their feasability in the time-frame.
20:17:59 <ennael> stormi attended the meeting with misc
20:18:09 <malo> When a feature is not accepted it does not mean no one can work on it. It just means it won't be for mga4.
20:18:20 <sebsebseb> malo: yep
20:18:36 <malo> second feature: https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Backports_update_applet
20:19:30 <malo> this is an old feature, that makes more sense when backports are actually there
20:19:39 <sander85> indeed
20:19:51 <MrsB> it would be good to have this, or build it into mgaapplet with backports opening
20:20:04 <malo> there is no volunteer yet, although it'd be really sound to have it.
20:20:06 <ennael> boklm told me it was nearly ready.
20:20:10 <ennael> boklm: around ?
20:20:15 <ennael> (we never know)
20:21:17 <ennael> we need to open backports soon
20:21:27 <tarakbumba> I don't think a backports update applet give us much benefit
20:21:27 <ennael> so we should finalize this feature
20:21:48 <malo> tarakbumba: it's useful for security.
20:22:04 <tarakbumba> Backports users should already know how to handle this
20:22:48 <tarakbumba> malo: i thought updates for security, aren't they?
20:23:15 <MrsB> updates don't happen in the same way for backports, there is no core backports updates repository
20:23:30 <malo> Waiting for confirmation, so we'll see next week about this one.
20:23:46 <malo> Next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:BootPartitionShakeup
20:24:07 <AL13N> there was quite some noise on this
20:24:11 <malo> coling: quite controversial that one
20:24:31 <coling> hehe
20:24:36 <AL13N> i myself am not 100% convinced we should actually have this... (although having less to test is great)
20:24:38 <coling> I had to have one :)
20:24:49 <malo> Could we agree here on which questions should coling answer on his proposal?
20:24:53 <coling> (controversial one I mean)
20:25:03 <DavidWHodgins> I thought only /boot/EFI had to be on vfat, not all of /boot?
20:25:21 <sander85> my only concern with that on is upgrades
20:25:25 <coling> DavidWHodgins, yeah but IMO it makes much more sense to have all of EFI partition mounted on /boot
20:25:42 <DavidWHodgins> Putting the initrd on a vfat filesystem, makes it world readable, which is a security problem, if network passwords are in the initrd.
20:25:52 <AL13N> is it really required for UEFI to have a separate /boot? i heard that GPT can have a small beginning partition space for the UEFI loader
20:26:19 <sander85> AL13N: we need /boot partition anyway
20:26:22 <coling> Upgrades will definitely be a problem. I don't really see how we could do that sensibly and thus we would have to "support" (to some degree) upgrading systems with different layouts, but that doesn't mean we should support installing them.
20:26:32 <AL13N> i think it may be required to coexist with other OS like windows, but i'm not certain that we do need this
20:26:55 <AL13N> i thought UEFI allowed for direct kernel boot
20:27:08 <boklm> ennael: for backports, the tools that move packages from backports_testing to backports needs to be done, but I
20:27:16 <AL13N> to me this sounds like more work than it's worth
20:27:22 <boklm> ennael: for backports, the tools that move packages from backports_testing to backports needs to be done, but I plan to finish git setup before doing that
20:27:27 <coling> AL13N, mounting EFI partition as /boot allows easy coexistence with other distros and windows quite nicely.
20:27:39 <coling> (it's how my system is setup)
20:27:44 <AL13N> coling: yes, but is that really required as default?
20:27:55 <AL13N> coling: i mean, are most newbies gonna do dualbooting?
20:27:58 <AL13N> on UEFI?
20:28:02 <DavidWHodgins> I have multiple m3 installs. Wouldn't they cause conflicts with each other?
20:28:12 <sander85> AL13N: maybe not, but so what?
20:28:31 <sander85> it still good idea to have separate /boot and make testing easier
20:28:41 <coling> No we could jump through all sorts of hoops, to set up all kind of weird layouts. That's not really the point of the proposal. I'm trying to get a layout that is the most sensible for all scenarios and then aim to support that layout well, not a myriad of "possible" layouts.
20:28:41 <AL13N> coling: also, what if you're installing mageia, but there's already another distro installed with it's own bootloader mechanism?
20:29:04 <coling> AL13N, that's what the bootloader specification is meant to address.
20:29:15 <ennael> boklm: ok
20:29:30 <AL13N> coling: i mean, shouldn't mageia be in one partition then, with a chainload from that other distro's bootloader?
20:29:45 <AL13N> coling: and thus we shouldn't have to make a /boot partition?
20:29:49 <coling> AL13N, no need. They can all share happily.
20:29:54 <AL13N> ah
20:30:01 <DavidWHodgins> While I understand the rationale for only supporting one method, I don't think it's realistic. Would make upgrading without repartitioning much more difficult.
20:30:21 <coling> DavidWHodgins, yeah I think upgrades would really just have to carry on as they are setup.
20:30:28 <AL13N> i would actually prefer this to wait until bootloader specification is done
20:30:35 <AL13N> s/done/used/
20:30:35 <coling> But we could still aim towards only supporting this on new installs.
20:30:57 <DavidWHodgins> And doesn't grub fail with some raid setups, which is why we force lilo, if booting with raid?
20:31:18 <coling> DavidWHodgins, yeah. It's this kind of thing I want to avoid by design.
20:31:47 <malo> All right guys, if we have 42 features and each of them needs highly technical discussion, it's not going to work in a meeting ...
20:31:53 <coling> Just don't allow it. If you want a raid / then have a separate /boot.
20:31:57 <DavidWHodgins> Unless we decide not to support upgrading, for such systems, I don't see how this can work.
20:31:59 <coling> Yeah :)
20:32:09 * coling doesn't want to not support upgrades.
20:32:15 <coling> Anyway, lets leave this one for now.
20:32:20 <coling> IT's too controvercial.
20:32:20 <DavidWHodgins> Ok
20:32:39 <ennael> next one let do the one "easy"
20:32:41 <malo> Is there a consensus on dropping that one?
20:32:41 <coling> We can perhaps come to some agreements over simplifying the options offered and try and work towards things as we go.
20:33:04 <sander85> malo: nope :)
20:33:06 <MrsB> there's nothing wrong with having a default for new installs though
20:33:20 <AL13N> yes
20:33:25 <sander85> we can still aim for it
20:33:39 <coling> malo, let's drop it in it's full form, but discuss further (at a later date) about simplifying the options offered for new installs going forward.
20:33:40 <malo> then we shall leave that feature to more discussion for the next two weeks
20:33:47 <coling> malo, yeah.
20:33:50 <coling> Sounds good to me.
20:34:06 <malo> coling: you have two weeks to update your proposal then :)
20:34:14 <AL13N> coling: keep in mind you have less than 4 months for ALL your features
20:34:30 <coling> Will keep that in mind :)
20:34:32 <malo> next: https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:CheckboxesToChooseDE
20:34:51 <AL13N> personally, i don't think this is useful
20:34:55 <MrsB> that's similar to my one
20:35:17 <ennael> can be interesting and not expensive to implement :)
20:35:24 <coling> AL13N, very useful for testing :)
20:36:00 <AL13N> if the person completes it, i see no reason why not
20:36:26 <AL13N> ok, next
20:36:27 <ennael> malo: accepted :)
20:36:29 <MrsB> my one https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Independently_install_desktop_environments
20:36:48 <malo> MrsB: can you merge the two?
20:37:13 <tarakbumba> Those two should be merged.
20:37:25 <AL13N> if the other person desires this, yes
20:37:29 <MrsB> i'll do it tomorrow
20:37:44 <AL13N> MrsB: contact the other person first to get his idea on this, maybe
20:37:47 <MrsB> yep
20:37:50 <tarakbumba> I think this too should be accepted.
20:37:56 <AL13N> ok, next
20:38:16 <MrsB> why are features using camelcase btw?
20:38:28 <malo> Next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:DeprecateCrond
20:38:34 <AL13N> MrsB: WikiConventions
20:38:38 <sebsebseb> MrsB: uhmm your feature is basicaly what I suggested in that email isn't it? when I said about the de bit in the classiccal installer not being that clear?  GNOME KDE, and custom, what's custom?
20:38:41 <ennael> malo: needs more information
20:38:51 <ennael> too controversial for tonight, discussion is not finished
20:38:59 <sebsebseb> malo: also when I saw checkboxestochoosede  I thought that was similar to what I was on about
20:39:01 <sebsebseb> uh for MrsB
20:39:13 <malo> Ok coling that one needs more discussion as well
20:39:31 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:DesktopGreeter
20:39:49 <coling> malo sure if you like. I will reply to Bruno's mail.
20:39:59 <coling> (personally I think it's a no brainer tho')
20:40:17 <tarakbumba> Coming from Pardus, Desktop Greeter is a nice feature but not gives much benefit i think
20:40:21 <MrsB> I really like this one
20:40:29 <AL13N> coling: i think xinetd should be abolished and crontab use a generator
20:40:47 <coling> AL13N, I really don't think a generator would work for crontab.
20:40:50 <MrsB> it couldbe used to help new users with some info too and give handy links to join ML's etc
20:41:05 <ennael> we had it in mandriva
20:41:12 <tarakbumba> Desktop Greeter is KDE centered and with GNOME, LXDE and other DEs it requires much work
20:41:16 <sander85> i don't think we have enough people to work on it, do we?
20:41:21 <coling> AL13N, I'd rather just convert the 70odd packages than write a generator that will only work for a subset of functionality.
20:41:50 <ennael> please guys
20:41:57 <ennael> what are we spoken about ? :)
20:42:05 * coling will shut up :)
20:42:08 <ennael> :p
20:42:21 * ennael does not want to spend the night here :p
20:42:35 <malo> So unless there is improvement on the proposal, this one will be dropped next meeting.
20:42:39 <AL13N> ok
20:42:44 <tarakbumba> ok
20:42:44 <ennael> about desktop greeter maybe we can reuse the one used in mandriva
20:42:55 <sebsebseb> MrsB: yep your feature is basicaly what I was suggesting in that email,  read  the whole proposal now :)
20:43:01 <tarakbumba> ennael: it is not like MandrivaGalaxy
20:43:01 <ennael> I will ping neoclust about it
20:43:09 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:DiskDrakeNetworkDevices
20:43:11 <ennael> tarakbumba: then it's not clear enough
20:43:14 <MrsB> sebsebseb: :)
20:43:52 <tarakbumba> ennael: Pardus's Kaptan and Chakra's Kapudan simply a walkthrough for new users to configure DE
20:44:10 <tarakbumba> Themes, icons, etc.
20:44:19 <ennael> woot ok
20:44:29 <AL13N> malo: it's in essense a good idea, though this may need to be pushed towards mageia5, i got stuck when i tried this for mageia 3
20:45:06 <AL13N> malo: if i get the dependant part working well, this could be done in time, or it could be pushed to next release
20:45:41 <sander85> next release seems like a better goal for this one
20:45:45 <tarakbumba> If can be done, it would be very nice i think. But man/woman power?
20:45:56 <AL13N> i'm working on this
20:46:09 <AL13N> but i got stuck, i kinda need some help with diskdrake devs
20:46:24 <AL13N> i'm hoping the dev SIG can help me with this
20:46:34 <malo> AL13N: hoepfully the git move will help as well
20:46:43 <AL13N> let's keep it for now, we can easily drop if it can't be finished in time
20:46:44 <tarakbumba> So, postpone this for mga5...
20:47:11 <ennael> ok next !
20:47:34 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:DiskDrakeRescan
20:47:47 <AL13N> this is the one that needs to be finished for the previous one
20:47:54 <AL13N> let's do same
20:47:57 <AL13N> next?
20:48:02 <tarakbumba> ok
20:48:19 <malo> postpone?
20:48:23 <AL13N> (30+ features in 12 min)
20:48:44 <malo> next: is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:DoNotShipSysVInitScripts
20:49:01 <AL13N> fine for me
20:49:03 <AL13N> next
20:49:19 <sander85> yeah, should be accepted
20:49:30 <malo> coling: \o/
20:49:42 <ennael> :)
20:49:44 <tarakbumba> Obvious result of the systemd. Should be accepted. Archlinux already did it and no problems
20:49:48 <DavidWHodgins> Still have to have /etc/rc.d etc, to allow installation of third party packages that still use init scripts.
20:49:56 <coling> That's more of an aim then a real feature tho'.
20:50:03 <AL13N> yes
20:50:09 <coling> No great shakes if it's missed really!
20:50:19 <coling> But still.
20:50:20 <coling> :)
20:50:36 <ennael> ok next :)
20:50:37 <malo> Ok, this one is in!
20:50:55 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:DrakXtoolsReview
20:51:42 <tarakbumba> This is not new one i think. Manq
20:51:53 <malo> old one, no one to back it up ...
20:51:59 <ennael> no name on it
20:52:00 <ennael> ?
20:52:01 <sander85> AFAIK this is WIP.. not sure it will make it for mga4
20:52:11 <tarakbumba> Manq/Manpower/
20:52:12 <AL13N> ok, postpone for now
20:52:15 <ennael> we need first to setup a dev team
20:53:16 <sander85> neeext :)
20:53:26 <AL13N> malo: ping?
20:53:42 <malo> ok next: https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:EditionBasedScreenshots
20:53:42 <ennael> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:EditionBasedScreenshots
20:53:45 <ennael> oups
20:53:57 * malo is eating at the moment
20:54:10 <AL13N> sorry
20:54:31 <ennael> so personnalized design given the media we are on
20:54:32 <tarakbumba> It depends on artwork team i think. Should be accepted, like Mandriva ones...
20:54:35 <ennael> live, dvd...
20:54:41 <ennael> not only
20:54:48 <AL13N> this seems not really a feature... isn't this already like this?
20:54:54 <MrsB> is this the advertising screens in the installers?
20:54:55 <ennael> it needs some modificatoin in installer too
20:55:14 <sander85> i don't think we really need this one
20:55:22 <tarakbumba> So, postpone this until dev team setup?
20:55:52 <malo> ok, next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:AutomatedTesting
20:55:54 <sebsebseb> I think that one could be a nice idea, but will mean more work for Atelier or whatever so hmm
20:55:57 <sebsebseb> the screenshots one
20:56:08 <sebsebseb> don't really need it as such either right now  I think
20:56:35 <malo> That one is underspecified :-)
20:56:59 <tarakbumba> This one should be accepted. It takes heavy load from QA team a bit.
20:57:08 <MrsB> there are a number of packages which have tests which are not utilised at build time
20:57:13 <ennael> maybe we could have some steps
20:57:23 <ennael> not a full automatized system but start with some parts
20:57:30 <ennael> so it needs more information
20:57:35 <malo> yes, it's not really part of the release, more part of the process.
20:57:37 <sander85> malo: you have 2 weeks :P
20:57:47 <malo> ennael: I need to talk more to pterjan
20:58:06 <malo> but it is also linked with the feature about rpmlint
20:58:23 <coling> :)
20:58:29 <ennael> yep so accpeted but it needs more information
20:59:37 <malo> well, it's not big a risk to accept :-)
20:59:54 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Descriptions_of_rpm_in_rpmdrake_available_in_different_languages
21:00:08 <boklm> I think Glen started to work on using os-autoinst on mageia
21:00:12 <ennael> I think we have something to manage it
21:00:19 <ennael> in mdv
21:00:34 <tarakbumba> It is hard to manage for i18n teams
21:01:06 <tarakbumba> Like me, only soft translator it is unmanagable.
21:01:18 <malo> information cannot be in packages: there it's too hard to keep the translations
21:01:50 <sebsebseb> yep that feature is to much translation work I think
21:01:51 <sander85> i remember that our Estonian translator told that this is quite pointless and a waste of translator's time
21:02:12 <tarakbumba> sander85: He was right.
21:02:23 <AL13N> i have nothing against this, but otoh, if noone translates it, it doesn't break anything
21:02:30 <sebsebseb> also the programming languages tend to use English  for stuff in them, and well English is the computer language really
21:03:21 <papoteur> the users of Mageia are not only computer programmers.
21:03:27 <AL13N> maybe if we had more i18n translaters... we can easily postpone this to mga5
21:03:29 <tarakbumba> Also, for me, altough i know English; i usually do not look at summaries for packages in rpmdrake
21:03:44 <sebsebseb> yep I don't think there is enough people in i18n for that fuature, so it should be rejected really I guess for now?
21:03:56 <ennael> ok so we let it down for now
21:04:20 <AL13N> are we gonna do all the other 20+ ones? we'll have another hour for a meeting then....
21:04:26 <malo> yep, 10000 packages add a lot to translate. And when we think that the website is not even translated in more that 8 or 9 languages ... http://www.mageia.org/langs/report.php
21:04:28 <[mbot> [ www.mageia.org translation report ]
21:04:28 <AL13N> it's getting late-ish
21:04:37 <MrsB> could something like packages.debian.org help?
21:05:00 <sebsebseb> yep do the next lot :), then it's done and :)
21:05:06 <malo> next we accept https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Independently_install_desktop_environments
21:05:11 <AL13N> MrsB: AppStream could help for this
21:05:11 <tarakbumba> 00:04 AM here :(
21:05:26 <sebsebseb> tarakbumba: yeah, but for your feature it's probably worth the wait :d
21:05:27 <AL13N> malo: ok
21:05:33 <malo> AL13N: let's finish half
21:05:41 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Independently_install_desktop_environments
21:05:53 <malo> no, next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:New_Mgarepo
21:05:54 <silver_hook> Hullo, I’m a a Mageia noobie and I’ll excuse myself for popping up here o/
21:05:59 <AL13N> malo: or go alot faster
21:06:10 <sebsebseb> silver_hook: normally fine it's just packaging meeting is on at the moment
21:06:20 <MrsB> hi silver_hook, welcome to mageia. It's a meeting here at the moment
21:06:22 <malo> silver_hook: welcome!
21:06:22 <AL13N> silver_hook: np, but we're just in a meeting so plz wait until we're finished
21:06:43 <AL13N> malo: accept, he's already working on this
21:06:43 <silver_hook> sebsebseb: Aha, I’ll just shut up untill then.
21:06:45 <tarakbumba> malo: didn't we discuss before? Merging two proposals?
21:07:12 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Predefinedpackageselection
21:07:40 <AL13N> we sort of have that, i would reject
21:07:54 <ennael> maybe rather reorganize the personnalized screen
21:07:56 <malo> it seems related to MrsB's one
21:07:59 <tarakbumba> Agree with AL13N.
21:08:05 <ennael> it's quite a mess and outdated
21:08:06 <malo> ennael: yes.
21:08:10 <MrsB> isn't it what we already have?
21:08:31 <MrsB> i'll tidy that page tomorrow
21:08:36 <AL13N> sure, but is that a feature? it should be worded differently, if it's just updating the personalized screen
21:08:48 <AL13N> ok, next?
21:08:51 <malo> MrsB: thanks!
21:09:05 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Ranking_system_for_packages
21:09:24 <AL13N> too much work and not enough benefit
21:09:28 <malo> needs a volunteer, so we wait till next week.
21:09:32 <MrsB> that ties in with appstream too
21:09:35 <AL13N> especially since AppStream has scoring
21:09:40 <tarakbumba> Fancy but not much benefit i think.
21:10:00 <AL13N> ok, next
21:10:04 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Rpmlint_enhancement
21:10:26 <ennael> could be nice to implement
21:10:28 <AL13N> accepted, next
21:10:32 <danf_> This one is pretty straightforward--I posted patches for a few to the list already
21:10:33 <tarakbumba> That should be accepted. And rpmlint should follow policies
21:10:34 <malo> yes
21:10:47 <coling> next :)
21:10:49 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Spectool_enhancement
21:11:04 <MrsB> is somebody keeping track?
21:11:08 <malo> to allow having SOURCE point to git points
21:11:13 <malo> MrsB: I am :-)
21:11:19 <MrsB> phew! :D
21:11:21 <malo> MrsB: and ennael as well
21:11:25 <ennael> yep
21:11:28 <AL13N> malo: isn't this what new mgarepo does too?
21:11:50 <AL13N> MrsB: we'll have logs anyway :-)
21:11:56 <MrsB> true
21:11:57 <tarakbumba> That one is very nice. It reminds me PKGBUILDS of Archlinux. It can be done with simple bash script
21:12:27 <AL13N> malo: the new mgarepo page says that it can autocreate tarball from git/svn source?
21:12:29 <AL13N> or am i mistaken?
21:12:44 <ennael> it is at least a target
21:12:48 <malo> AL13N: possible I haven't read :-)
21:12:48 <ennael> boklm: ?
21:12:58 <malo> Maybe the two can be merged
21:13:02 <AL13N> agreed
21:13:04 <AL13N> next
21:13:06 <tarakbumba> I think this feature includes local builds.
21:13:06 <malo> let's review next week.
21:13:18 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Tool_for_writing_iso_on_USB_stick
21:13:23 <coling> AL13N, you are correct, but it *might* be more sensible to generate and store tarball to binrepo as that means less chance of network issues during submit if 3rd party git repos are allowed.
21:13:32 <MrsB> \o/
21:13:42 <ennael> malo: this is a msut to have
21:13:43 <ennael> must
21:13:47 <AL13N> coling: details, details...
21:13:47 <malo> that one is quite demanded, and there is already code
21:13:50 <sebsebseb> Yes I think there should be a GUI for putting  ISO's to USB.
21:13:52 <ennael> still we need somebody to implement
21:14:03 * tarakbumba will not be here next meeting unfortunately.
21:14:06 <ennael> so call for it on -dev in coming days
21:14:10 <sebsebseb> dd can be complex for people. GUI is nice :)
21:14:17 <AL13N> wasn't David also working on this and had another person who contacted him to do this?
21:14:28 <DavidWHodgins> I've got it working, using dialog and xdialog, just need to add the translation part, and a few other small things.
21:14:31 <MrsB> mint/suse rebrand existing tools
21:14:41 <malo> Anyone has a student around? This is a perfect short student project.
21:14:57 <malo> Anyone is a student? :-)
21:15:03 <MrsB> be good to have a windows version too
21:15:06 <sebsebseb> tarakbumba: right so if they go through the whole list now,  they can look back next meeting, and probably won't matter as much if you miss :d
21:15:28 <AL13N> DavidWHodgins: who was that other person that might help on this?
21:15:53 <DavidWHodgins> No one else. I did this when I found out mandriva-seed doesn't work on Mageia 3.
21:16:07 <malo> DavidWHodgins: can you update the feature page with your tool?
21:16:18 <AL13N> DavidWHodgins: i thought i recently saw someone contact you and you offered to let him work on your tool?
21:16:24 <DavidWHodgins> I've already added it.
21:16:26 <malo> we need volunteers on that one
21:16:37 <malo> let's rediscuss it next meeting
21:16:40 <AL13N> k
21:16:44 <tarakbumba> ok
21:16:48 <sebsebseb> ok
21:16:50 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:InstallMissingSoftware
21:16:59 <papoteur> I worked on a revamp of usb-imagewriter, from Ubuntu.
21:17:00 <ennael> no :)
21:17:16 <MrsB> that's what mint use iinm papoteur
21:17:30 <sebsebseb> I think that is a good  feature to have.
21:17:31 <papoteur> MrsB: Yes, too.
21:17:44 <papoteur> But no more Ubuntu ;)
21:17:47 <malo> it's weird, and from my understanding it's about installing all the suggests of the currently installed packages.
21:18:05 <AL13N> yes
21:18:08 <AL13N> but not a bad idea
21:18:14 <malo> I'm sure that there is a urpmi one-liner that can do it.
21:18:23 <MrsB> malo I think it's more like ubuntu restricted drivers thing
21:18:24 <AL13N> malo: i haven't found it
21:18:42 <sebsebseb> yep it's like ubuntu-restricted-extras I think
21:18:49 <ennael> I'm really not fond of this
21:18:52 <sander85> hmm, it even doesn't have name on it.. drop it
21:19:01 <MrsB> but to include the extra whatnots people usually install
21:19:01 <AL13N> we can choose at install if we want tainted
21:19:09 <sebsebseb> it's just a easy way to install propritary software and such, I think that's the idea of the feature
21:19:29 <sebsebseb> AL13N: yeah, but got to enable tained,  with this, it's just accept it and install the stuff I think the fature
21:19:39 <malo> MrsB: I don't like it then ...
21:19:42 <MrsB> nonfree is on the isos now so partly redundant but there are things like media codecs etc
21:19:49 <AL13N> i don't like it then either
21:19:56 <malo> sebsebseb: it needs to be better written
21:20:01 <sebsebseb> I think the feature would be nice to have probably really, but is ok to skip for Mageia 4 to
21:20:03 <AL13N> let's reject this for now
21:20:03 <MrsB> could do with more info maybe
21:20:18 <malo> ok if it's not better written in 2 weeks, we reject.
21:20:30 <MrsB> maybe contact the proposer
21:20:34 <AL13N> i thought it was some kind of question on nonfree/tainted and then a redo of missing suggests and updates from selected mirrors
21:20:35 <sebsebseb> yep
21:20:37 <sebsebseb> and yep
21:20:37 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:InstallerLeftSideRedesign
21:20:43 <MrsB> except there isn't one
21:20:48 <sebsebseb> contact proposer , get it better written or try to :d
21:21:16 <AL13N> malo: the basic idea is to be able to go back steps in the installer and visibly see it
21:21:17 <sebsebseb> persoanlly I think the installer could do with some big changes maybe here and there, but not for Mageia 4
21:21:33 <malo> going back is very tricky
21:21:41 <MrsB> not so much that, read the detail
21:21:45 <AL13N> or even just a cancel
21:21:55 <sebsebseb> what's wrong with the left side of the installer though? :d
21:21:59 <tarakbumba> should be discussed for mga5 or mga6 i think
21:22:02 <MrsB> more making it more dynamic
21:22:05 <AL13N> nothing, except it's completely static
21:22:17 <AL13N> what is highlighted is often the wrong step
21:22:23 <AL13N> or somethings steps are skipped
21:22:25 <AL13N> etc....
21:22:34 <sander85> i'm quite fine with how it is.. tho' i don't use it too often :)
21:22:39 <malo> it's an anonymous proposal, so we see in 2 weeks if someone steps up, but it's probably a no.
21:22:42 <AL13N> but i guess no dev team makes this difficult
21:22:47 <MrsB> AL13N: you should add your name/email to that one
21:22:51 <AL13N> yes
21:22:51 <sebsebseb> I think that feature should be rejected probably,  or I don't undersatnd it, what's wrong with the left side?
21:22:54 <AL13N> i should've
21:23:08 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Kscreen
21:23:13 <malo> we accept
21:23:19 <malo> objections?
21:23:31 <sander85> accept
21:23:33 <sebsebseb> yep accept that, isn't that one of neoclust 's features to ?
21:23:39 <tarakbumba> accept
21:23:43 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:LoginWithKeyboard
21:23:51 <sebsebseb> accept that to I think
21:23:59 <AL13N> that should be accepted
21:24:01 <tarakbumba> accept
21:24:11 <AL13N> it canbe postponed if noone doesit
21:24:14 <AL13N> but it would be nice
21:24:23 * coling is confused iwth that one
21:24:30 <coling> I login with just keyboard every day.
21:24:39 <coling> I guess it refers to KDM?
21:24:46 <sander85> this probably depends on DM
21:24:47 <DavidWHodgins> coling: Varies with which dm is used.
21:24:48 <ennael> it works in kdm :)
21:25:03 <sander85> and i'm not sure we can do much about DMs
21:25:06 <coling> The proposal is kinda unclear then.
21:25:16 <AL13N> oic
21:25:28 <coling> It works in GDM, KDM and ???
21:25:31 <AL13N> it's not really a feature, it's more of a bugfix for a dm then?
21:25:39 <coling> Yeah
21:25:43 <coling> So rejected? ;)
21:25:44 <sander85> yeah, and an upstream bugfix
21:25:45 <coling> :p
21:25:50 <AL13N> next
21:26:01 <malo> it's more about watching that it works for next versions.
21:26:14 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:MTP_%28Media_Transport_Protocol%29_Support
21:26:30 <sebsebseb> I think that should be accepted.
21:26:31 <coling> Again, this is probably a "we want this to work"
21:26:46 <malo> coling: yes.
21:26:55 <malo> something to watch and test
21:26:55 <ennael> yep
21:26:55 <AL13N> should be a bug instead
21:27:00 <AL13N> ah well
21:27:02 <AL13N> next
21:27:04 <coling> I doubt it's controversial
21:27:06 <sander85> this is feature request..
21:27:06 <coling> :)
21:27:09 <MrsB> :D
21:27:12 <ennael> well it's nice to announce it just works
21:27:15 <malo> next is hehe
21:27:15 <coling> Indeed.
21:27:26 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Mate
21:27:31 * ennael runs
21:27:31 <sander85> accept
21:27:33 <tarakbumba> That's mine
21:27:35 <DavidWHodgins> accept
21:27:40 <coling> I say accept.
21:27:46 <sebsebseb> accept mate :)
21:27:49 <malo> no one objects?
21:27:52 <ennael> I would like to add something on that one
21:27:55 <MrsB> accept
21:27:57 <AL13N> i think if this and the next are wellstructured and accepted by Gnome3 maintainer, this should be accepted
21:28:07 <ennael> agree *if* we have some discussions between DE maintainers
21:28:08 * sebsebseb trust tarakbumba to provide a good Mate implementaton in Mageia :)
21:28:19 <ennael> so we can have a nice integration for all our DEs
21:28:23 <tarakbumba> sebsebseb: thanks
21:28:25 <AL13N> ennael: good thinking, the DE maintainers should talk to eachother within the DE SIG
21:28:31 <ennael> it's a question of image and confort for our users
21:28:41 <ennael> AL13N: you said SIG ? :)
21:28:42 <sebsebseb> tarakbumba: might end up using the Mate version of Nautilus in Mageia 4  sometimes depends :d
21:28:45 <coling> Yeah I'd very much like to get a common feel across DEs if possible.
21:28:47 <ennael> malo: he said SIG !
21:28:58 <ennael> :)
21:28:59 <malo> ennael: \o/
21:29:03 <sander85> next?
21:29:06 <ennael> :p
21:29:07 <tarakbumba> oK
21:29:12 <malo> accepted then
21:29:15 <ennael> tarakbumba: is that ok?
21:29:19 <tarakbumba> Thank you!
21:29:30 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Cinnamon
21:29:32 <sebsebseb> we need Cinnamon accepted to really I think to go with Mate, but right not on that feature yet or?
21:29:34 <sebsebseb> ok there it is :d
21:29:36 <tarakbumba> ennael: I' ll hard work on that
21:29:42 <ennael> thanks :)
21:29:45 <sebsebseb> Mate and Cinmaon should both go into Mageia 4 I think :)
21:29:49 <AL13N> i think this one is similar
21:29:57 <tarakbumba> I think Cinnamon is similar. Accept
21:29:59 <DavidWHodgins> I agree. Include it.
21:29:59 <AL13N> if it's both up to par, it should go
21:30:04 <malo> tarakbumba: the integration and uniform look and feel is important for Mageia
21:30:11 <AL13N> same remark from ennael though
21:30:13 <ennael> again same comment :)
21:30:16 <AL13N> :-)
21:30:16 <MrsB> if we can, we should
21:30:23 <sander85> so next :P
21:30:25 <tarakbumba> malo: I'm triying for that.
21:30:27 <coling> I think it would be kinda unfair to all mate and nak cininamon really.
21:30:40 <sebsebseb> coling: nak ?
21:30:45 <tarakbumba> ?
21:30:46 <AL13N> ack/nack
21:30:52 <coling> erm, s/all/ack/
21:30:56 <ennael> :)
21:31:00 <malo> ok, accept then, but effort required for integration
21:31:01 <sebsebseb> yep Mate and Cinnamon go together really or kind of
21:31:06 <coling> So ACK from me.
21:31:09 <sebsebseb> malo: yep :)
21:31:21 <sander85> how many left?
21:31:23 <tarakbumba> Ok.
21:31:27 * ennael is tired :)
21:31:31 <malo> Should we stop now that we have done 2/3rd
21:31:33 <malo> ?
21:31:39 <AL13N> there's a big one coming now
21:31:41 <sander85> i think so :S
21:31:42 <ennael> yes !
21:31:44 <sebsebseb> oh maybe Unity for Mageia 5 as well heh heh. oh and maybe Trinity for Mageia 6 to heh heh again :d
21:31:49 <AL13N> another controversial coling one
21:31:54 <coling> Pah!
21:31:58 <ennael> what about having a meetinng next week for once?
21:31:58 <coling> :)
21:32:08 <tarakbumba> I think we should stop after this.
21:32:11 <ennael> so that we can close that topic
21:32:15 <sander85> yes, i vote for meeting next week
21:32:16 <AL13N> i'm ok with meeting next week
21:32:23 <MrsB> it's my bedtime too
21:32:29 <ennael> decicated to features only
21:32:30 * coling can hold off on pushing the relevant udev rule :)
21:32:32 <malo> ennael: I'm in Latvia next week, so not present
21:32:42 <coling> I'm in brussells next week. ;)
21:32:44 <ennael> ah I'm in bruxelles too
21:32:53 * ennael needs to buy a better brain
21:33:02 <coling> Upgrade will be allowed.
21:33:04 <tarakbumba> me/ thinks it is already late and he have to package some home stuff for moving...
21:33:08 <ennael> phew
21:33:08 * sebsebseb nearly went to Brussules to for next week, but nope won't be going this time
21:33:11 <AL13N> coling: are you coming for the booth as well?
21:33:16 <tarakbumba> me\ thinks it is already late and he have to package some home stuff for moving...
21:33:18 <coling> AL13N, yeah I'll be around
21:33:20 <malo> tarakbumba: I agree.
21:33:22 <ennael> ok in 2 weeks
21:33:23 <coling> Will take my turn
21:33:28 <AL13N> coling: i'll see you and marja there then
21:33:31 <MrsB> goodnight then folks
21:33:33 <coling> Indeedy :)
21:33:34 <ennael> it lives some time to troll^w^wdiscuss
21:33:40 <sebsebseb> AL13N: thoguht you weren't going :d
21:33:43 <coling> and bribe :)
21:33:44 <AL13N> i wasnt
21:33:49 <AL13N> marja talked me into it
21:33:50 <malo> Ok. so Please everyone read the feature proposals and comment on -dev
21:33:51 <ennael> thanks for attending all
21:33:57 <AL13N> thanks
21:34:05 <coling> Thanks all.
21:34:07 <ennael> have a good night
21:34:07 * sander85 ZzzzZzzzz
21:34:08 <malo> try to reach consensus before the meeting :-)
21:34:12 <tarakbumba> Goodnight! Thank you all for encouraging  padawans!
21:34:12 <malo> ennael: thanks!
21:34:13 <sander85> night!
21:34:52 <malo> ennael: endmeeting?
21:34:57 <ennael> #endmeeting