19:06:56 <ennael> #startmeeting 19:06:56 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Tue Jul 2 19:06:56 2013 UTC. The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:06:56 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:07:04 <ennael> hi all and thanks for attending 19:07:17 <sebsebseb> Guten Abend 19:07:36 <malo> hi everyone 19:07:51 <marja> hi all 19:07:57 <aleksjan> hi 19:08:14 <Adrien_D> Hi all 19:08:15 <sebsebseb> Bonjour 19:08:20 <ennael> so first topic 19:08:25 <ennael> #topic new comers and mentoring: we are looking for more mentors! 19:08:31 <ennael> don't move ! 19:08:37 <marja> :) 19:08:42 <ennael> ok can we start with new comers? 19:09:22 <malo> this week we have aleksjan, who is currently waiting for a mentor 19:09:32 <aleksjan> malo: right 19:09:56 <aleksjan> malo: i'm planning to be more or less active this and next 2 weeks. then I'm out for vacation for 4 weeks.. 19:10:12 <rindolf> malo: can I mentor him/her? 19:10:16 <malo> ryoshu and I already helped aleksjan for two packages 19:10:29 <malo> rindolf: you may :-) 19:10:45 <malo> rindolf: he might be in the same timezone actually 19:10:52 <aleksjan> malo: and I'm not really sure that I will have time (but who knows) for packaging things during that time 19:12:02 <aleksjan> malo: but the patch for fossil was not right - the things ryoshu advised are still to be done. besides it seems that fossil embeds ssl, zlib, tcl, which can be used as shared libs as well 19:12:12 <malo> aleksjan: no problem, just tell your mentor and me if you're away, so that we don't send you useless emails. 19:12:18 <marja> aleksjan: you can add yourself to the table on this page, when you're on holiday https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Absent 19:12:44 <malo> aleksjan: you can discuss fossil on #mageia-mentoring :-). 19:13:04 <ennael> anybody else? 19:13:08 <malo> Anyone else new? 19:14:16 <malo> Basically, we are quite packed in term of mentoring now. 19:14:53 <malo> So, we need (1) new mentors (2) to make our current apprentices graduate to free existing mentors 19:15:07 <marja> :) 19:15:47 * marja misread, she thought malo wanted the apprentices to graduate, so they could become mentors, too 19:15:55 <malo> also david_david has zezinho as mentor, but he's not available, so if someone else could help him get started it would be great. 19:16:23 <malo> marja: I started mentoring only a few months after graduating 19:16:44 <neoclust> AL13N: +1 mails are more than useless, in development ML, i think this should be avoided. 19:16:48 <marja> malo: wow! good example :) 19:16:56 <neoclust> ooops sorry 19:17:15 * ennael slaps neoclust 19:17:24 <malo> #info new mentors are needed, in order to continue welcoming new apprentices 19:17:58 <neoclust> malo: we have a lot of apprentice w/o mentors ? 19:17:58 <ennael> we should have one new as soon as pterjan has finalized the process with him 19:19:22 <ennael> well we could have more apprentices :) 19:19:22 <malo> neoclust: not really, as the current people in the waiting table do not seem around (except Crox, who will be mentored by pterjan) 19:19:41 <malo> but david_david would need someone 19:20:06 <ennael> malo: I'm pretty sure neoclust is the one :) 19:20:56 <malo> it would be great if mentors could help me track apprentices progress 19:21:11 <malo> through the table at the bottom of https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Becoming_a_Mageia_Packager 19:21:27 <diogenese> nitech_us_slt_arctic_hts 19:21:39 <neoclust> ennael: no i have srtxg already 19:21:40 <diogenese> Oops, sorry. 19:22:33 <malo> #info mentors should tell me (malo) about the progress of their apprentices 19:22:59 <ennael> malo: what about mailing them regularly? 19:23:12 <malo> #info mageia-mentoring is very active these days, so apprentices should not hesitate to come there and get their spec reviewed 19:23:22 <malo> ennael: I can do. 19:23:36 <ennael> maybe every 2 weeks before meeting 19:23:56 <neoclust> malo: for spec files i have an idea 19:24:09 <neoclust> malo: in fedora, apprentice open a bugreport for each spec file 19:24:11 <neoclust> to add review 19:24:47 <neoclust> malo: i think this is a good way 19:25:02 <marja> neoclust: also for updated spec files, or only for totally new ones? 19:25:58 <neoclust> updated ones too. but i think that to start only new one should be good 19:26:44 <marja> neoclust: and does it get a certain keyword.... does only the mentor get cc'ed, or the mentoring team, too? 19:26:49 <Akien> That sounds good (and that explains why the bug numbers in Fedora are so high :pà 19:27:15 <malo> neoclust: it's a good idea, and some specs are reviewed this way. I also like the fact that it's possible to just come up with a nopaste link. It lowers the bureaucracy. 19:27:18 <Akien> We could have an "apprentice" keyword, then the packagers could go through the list with a saved search. 19:27:22 * marja thinks it sounds good, too, but we need to implement it correctly 19:27:31 <AL13N> until commit access this is good 19:28:08 <neoclust> Akien: yes a keyword like this could help 19:28:10 <malo> we could try it out with some current apprentices and see if it's convenient, before making it policy 19:28:29 <neoclust> malo: i am not fan of nopaste link i prefer all in the bugreport without external link 19:28:49 <malo> Anyway, maybe we shouldn't spend time on that, considering the agenda tonight ... 19:29:13 <neoclust> yes sorry :) 19:29:15 <malo> neoclust: makes sense, I'll try it with my apprentices. 19:29:32 <malo> marja: feel free to do it this way as well :-) 19:29:58 <marja> malo: I'll cc you ;) 19:30:23 <malo> marja: damn :-) 19:30:28 <marja> grinz 19:30:35 <malo> ennael: over to you! 19:30:48 <ennael> ok :) 19:31:45 <ennael> #topic Mageia 4 planning 19:32:31 <ennael> so Mageia 4 planning 19:32:55 <Kharec> hi there 19:33:18 <ennael> As I'm a naughty girl I should have sent a planning to the council last week but real life was stronger :) 19:33:26 <ennael> so I'll do it just after this meeting 19:33:32 <ennael> anyway the big dates 19:34:05 <ennael> we want to be ambitious and we agreed on 1rst of february for the final release 19:34:22 <sebsebseb> yeah I was wondering what happended to the planning for the council or in general :d 19:34:40 <sander85> what about major gnome version? 19:34:47 <ennael> meaning releasing for FOSDEM 19:34:47 <sander85> kde will be frozen but gnome? 19:35:07 <ennael> Gnome: Oct 16, 2013 GNOME 3.10.1 19:35:16 <sebsebseb> sander85: GNOME 3.10 for Mageia 3 it will mean. 3.12 won't be untill end of March anyway, so hopefuly can be backported when it comes out :) 19:35:16 <ennael> KDE: January 7, 2014: KDE SC 4.11.5 release 19:35:38 <sander85> sebsebseb: we don't backport DEs :) 19:35:39 <sebsebseb> sander85: uh Magiea 4 I meant above 19:36:07 <AL13N> this is fine 19:36:16 <sander85> fine by me 19:36:44 <AL13N> i would hope we could get a much shorter freeze period and features that are completed BEFORE freeze 19:36:46 <Akien> IIRC we won't ship KDE SC 4.11.5, it's too close to the release, no? 19:37:00 <neoclust> Akien: why ? 19:37:13 <neoclust> Akien: we already did this the previous releases :) 19:37:14 <ennael> Akien: we will :) 19:37:21 <Akien> Well in January everything will be frozen, we'll be in the last beta 19:37:30 <ennael> it's kind of usual to have such case 19:37:35 <Akien> Alright, find by me :) 19:37:42 <neoclust> Akien: look for mga3 and when we released KDE 4.9.x :) 19:37:45 <Akien> s/find/fine/ 19:37:48 <neoclust> Akien: we are mad in kde team :) 19:37:54 <Akien> \o/ 19:37:58 <neoclust> Akien: we fear nothing :) 19:37:58 <Akien> I'll have to join the team :p 19:38:01 <ennael> version freeze should happen in the beginning of november 19:38:08 <neoclust> Akien: you are welcome :) 19:38:09 * sebsebseb hopes for Mageia 5 next year to, looks likely if Jan is Mageia 4 :d 9 months release cycle :d 19:38:09 <sander85> so first alpha is when? how much do we have time for features? 19:38:13 <sebsebseb> 12 months in a year 19:38:16 <ennael> and RC before christmas 19:38:39 <AL13N> ennael: perhaps would could have a much shorter freeze period, like december 19:38:42 <sander85> ennael: RC before christmas? 19:38:44 <neoclust> RC=> Ready for Christmas 19:38:45 <sander85> sure? 19:38:46 <ennael> AL13N: no 19:39:05 * coling is here :) \o/ 19:39:07 <sander85> RC... is release candidate.. please don't forget that.. 19:39:09 <neoclust> cassmodiah: :) 19:39:10 <marja> neoclust: ;( 19:39:16 <marja> oops 19:39:18 <Adrien_D> :) neoclust :) 19:39:18 <ennael> sander85: it leaves 1 month for final release 19:39:22 <marja> neoclust: :) 19:39:27 <ennael> + christmas time 19:39:39 <AL13N> ah, ic 19:39:47 <marja> coling: welcome 19:39:53 <neoclust> ennael: and we have to keep in mind that during christmas vacations we may have less available people 19:39:53 <AL13N> yes, i understand this 19:39:56 <sander85> ennael: better make it last beta and release RC 2 weeks before release 19:40:01 <sander85> to really test RC 19:40:03 <neoclust> ennael: for the lengh of the freeze 19:40:15 * coling didn't touch computer for ~2weeks over xmas last year FWIW. And it was lovely. 19:40:16 <malo> sander85: 2 weeks is not enough 19:40:20 <ennael> sander85: features should be developped until first beta 19:40:31 <sander85> malo: for RC it's enough 19:40:39 <sander85> it's RC, it should be ready for release 19:40:53 <sander85> look kernel or LO 19:40:55 <ennael> "should" 19:41:00 <AL13N> and no RC2 unless absolutely necessary 19:41:16 <ennael> the thing is people start testing isos at RC stage 19:41:18 <sander85> i'm not against RC2 if RC one is broken 19:41:31 <neoclust> ennael: you have a good point here 19:41:45 <sander85> but claming having a RC when we really have a beta 19:41:48 <sebsebseb> yep have the RC a month or so before the expected final :) 19:41:52 <malo> sander85: don't forget that the release should be ready 1 week before release date 19:41:52 <AL13N> since version freeze is november, i will take this as a time where features *SHOULD* be ready 19:42:20 <neoclust> sander85: yes nice perfect, but please try to read what other people say 19:42:25 <neoclust> sander85: this is usefull 19:42:52 <sander85> neoclust: i'm reading :) and seeing marketing, not quality 19:42:58 <AL13N> ennael: i will try to send regular email wrt features and the completion status so that hopefully features will be ready by the time version freeze is there, so that bugs can be solved at version freeze 19:43:03 <ennael> sander85: please 19:43:20 <ennael> it's not marketing it's a question of getting enough feedbacks to release 19:43:42 <ennael> and we plan some kind of internal release 1 week before final date 19:43:46 <neoclust> ennael: again agreed with you 19:44:01 <malo> sander85: if the RC is too close there is no time to fix bugs and go through a few pre-iso. 19:44:05 <sander85> that's why i'm saying it's not bad to have multiple RCs 19:44:35 <ennael> sander85: this will depend on the state of the RC really 19:44:36 <neoclust> sander85: no you told "i'm not against RC2 if RC one is broken" this is not exactly the same 19:44:40 <sander85> it's better if we have one broken and we do fixes for one month and then release w/o testing them 19:44:54 <ennael> ? 19:45:07 <malo> sander85: if you knew better what QA is doing, you would know that between the *public* RC and release, there are many *private* pre-releases 19:45:32 <sander85> malo: i'm sitting on that channel, i think i know :) 19:45:41 * MrsB is here, was just reading back 19:45:43 <sander85> but qa has very limited hardware 19:46:01 <ennael> sander85: that's why we need external feedbacks 19:46:05 <ennael> and time to get it 19:46:18 <neoclust> so a longer freeze 19:46:27 <sander85> yeah :/ 19:46:37 <neoclust> sander85: not ":/" 19:46:55 <coling> Well freeze can be a bit of a demotivator for some. 19:47:04 <AL13N> i personally believe a longer freeze is not good, but so be it... there's vacation in there anyway... 19:47:04 <coling> So :/ is justified at times. 19:47:08 <malo> and a requirement that all features should be stable in the first beta 19:47:10 <ennael> well we cannot release with bugs 19:47:15 <coling> Indeed. 19:47:21 <neoclust> coling: sander85 don't stop to complain so i am tired of ":/" 19:47:33 <neoclust> s/don't/doesn't/ 19:47:34 <neoclust> :) 19:47:49 <AL13N> the way i see it... we have until end of octobre to get features ready 19:47:57 <neoclust> coling: i don't like freeze neither but this is a "must do" 19:47:57 <AL13N> (or we should aim for that anyway) 19:48:07 <ennael> yes 19:48:20 <neoclust> AL13N: sound good 19:48:27 <MrsB> it's a tight schedule and we'll need to be organised going about it 19:48:35 <coling> As a longer term compromise here, would a different workflow help? e.g. branching early and commit to the branches instead of cauldron. Most people switch over the release branch and do the tests but others can still push newer stuff to cauldron. That seemed to work OK for fedora IIRC. 19:48:35 <malo> basically, this time we want a shorter release cycle, probably at the cost of heavy features, hopefully to favor stability 19:48:46 <sander85> i'm just worried that mga3 will be repeated :( 19:48:47 <AL13N> i will once a month notify people of their features and request to update their progress page on the wiki (which didn't happen in mga3) 19:48:48 <coling> Or would that just cause fragmentation of resources. 19:48:58 <neoclust> coling: i fear we have not enough manpower for this "yet" 19:49:02 <malo> coling: it would. 19:49:07 <AL13N> neoclust: i agree 19:49:40 <neoclust> sander85: yes i fear too about this, i fear we produce a good distribution :/ 19:49:43 <ennael> sander85: mga3 will not be repeated if we choose properly our priorities in features 19:49:49 <ennael> and if we stop it at beta stage 19:49:59 <ennael> even if this means less features 19:50:03 <AL13N> yes, it's better to have less bugs than more features 19:50:16 <DavidWHodgins> Plus backing out a feature, if it isn't ready for the betas. 19:50:17 <sander85> i'm ok with current RC plan if there will be RC2 if needed, not like happened with mga3 where we skipped it 19:50:38 <neoclust> ennael: git will be good for this, we will be allowed to do branches and work on it even if not ready for distro N this will be mergeable for N+1 19:50:42 <sander85> DavidWHodgins: well, you can't back out some stuff 19:50:44 <AL13N> i would prefer our first beta to have the RC quality of last mga3 (wrt bugs) 19:51:12 <AL13N> sander85: if you branch properly, it can 19:51:19 <ennael> that's why we ask people to fill properly the wiki with features 19:51:23 <AL13N> yes 19:51:27 <ennael> ti have as many details as possible 19:51:47 <AL13N> i will try to manage feature completion and give warning if it looks like we can't complete it 19:52:12 <ennael> we will do some features review and check how it goes 19:52:30 <MrsB> maybe once a meeting rather than once a month AL13N? 19:52:37 <ennael> basically meetings will focus on features until beta 19:52:41 <sebsebseb> sander85: Mageia 3 didn't get a extra RC 2 no, it got a extra Beta 4 though 19:52:43 <ennael> then it will focus on bugs 19:52:56 <AL13N> MrsB: sure, but i don't think every meeting needs to discuss all the features 19:53:05 <sander85> maybe i missed it but first alpha and feature freeze is when? 19:53:09 <MrsB> it can help to do so though as a motivator 19:53:44 <ennael> sander85: as announced in previous meeting freeze of proposals for features is tonight 19:54:07 <ennael> so we will close it very soon 19:54:11 <AL13N> there's already alot of features 19:54:20 <sander85> ennael: not proposals but the time when features should be quite ready and when we decide if they will be included for release? 19:54:28 <malo> ennael: we should actually declare it closed now. 19:54:38 <AL13N> features should be completed by version freeze 1st november 19:54:52 <sebsebseb> ennael: I think someone wanted to request some features, but he's to ill at the moment or whatever it was, but looking by the recently proposed features we probably got more than enough already anyway :d 19:54:52 <sander85> AL13N: i think that's too late 19:54:52 <ennael> malo: yep so all the one proposed on -dev are not taken into account? 19:54:56 <ennael> do we agree on that ? 19:55:13 <AL13N> fine for me 19:55:28 <malo> ennael: they are all in the wiki as far as I can tell. There are currently 42 feature proposals 19:55:30 <Akien> Starting from now, or the ones proposed today? 19:55:43 <ennael> the ones proposed this afternoon 19:55:44 <sebsebseb> 31 to 42 oh 19:56:11 <malo> I meant from now (20:00 UTC or something). 19:56:12 <sander85> some "features" are quite easy to exclude 19:56:26 <malo> sander85: we will do that in a minute 19:56:28 <AL13N> malo: i agree 19:56:32 <Akien> The ones from this afternoon followed the policy, so I'd say starting from now 20 UTC. 19:56:46 * sebsebseb hopes Mate and I guess Cinnamon to gets in there this time, even though well new DE's and stricer release cycle and all that this time to 19:56:57 <ennael> Akien: just saw it in the wiki 19:57:17 <ennael> ok give us until tomorrow evening with malo 19:57:22 <ennael> to review the very last one 19:57:33 <ennael> and ask for more details when needed before take some decisions 19:57:36 <ennael> is that ok ? 19:57:38 <AL13N> ok 19:58:07 <malo> ennael: do an info on release dates 19:58:31 <ennael> yep 19:58:47 <ennael> #info final release will be the 1rst of february 19:58:57 <sebsebseb> uh 19:58:58 <sebsebseb> that's FOSDEM 19:59:04 <ennael> #info version freeze is planned in the beginning of november 19:59:14 <sebsebseb> I thought was going to release a bit before FOSDEM? 19:59:22 <ennael> #info RC should happen before christmas 20:00:06 <malo> sebsebseb: the iso needs to be ready a few days before release date 20:00:10 <ennael> #info final planning will be communicated in coming days 20:00:26 <Akien> sebsebseb: The idea is to release _on_ FOSDEM :) 20:00:41 <DavidWHodgins> malo: At least a week before, so qa has time to test them. 20:00:41 <sebsebseb> malo: ok so QA or whatever will have the final ISO a bit before anyone else? means final CD's can be burnt for FOSDEM, before people go there? 20:00:44 <ennael> #info Mageia 4 features proposals are now closed 20:01:02 <MrsB> that's the plan sebsebseb 20:01:12 <sebsebseb> Akien: ok like Ubuntu I guess then, where it's probably ready a few days or so before, but then they release on Thursday's and hype it up 20:01:40 <MrsB> it's why it's so important the dev work is concluded early 20:01:56 <malo> DavidWHodgins: I meant the final iso, after QA green light 20:02:07 <sebsebseb> ok that makes sense if it's actsauly ready the release itself in Janurary :) then can release on 1st Feb sure 20:02:43 <ennael> well we have mixed features and planning topics but it does not matter 20:03:01 <MrsB> release is a major feature :) 20:03:04 <ennael> any question on all this? 20:03:09 <ennael> MrsB: indeed 20:05:22 <ennael> sander85: hope you saw that https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:New_Mgarepo :) 20:06:44 <ennael> ok are they all dead ? or already working on features ? 20:06:48 <sander85> ennael: i didn't, but it seems nice.. thanks for linking :) 20:06:54 <ennael> ;) 20:07:59 <sebsebseb> yeah bye bye SVN hello Git I guess 20:08:05 <AL13N> we're just waiting until next topic 20:08:25 <ennael> well next topic was about features 20:10:45 <ennael> #topic mageia 4 features 20:12:39 <sebsebseb> hi tarakbumba :) 20:12:47 <ennael> we will start a bit to take decision tonight 20:12:57 <ennael> to avoid having 42 features to review newt meeting 20:13:17 <ennael> some are quite evident when there is nobody to work on it 20:14:05 <tarakbumba> hi all 20:14:11 <MrsB> hi tarakbumba 20:14:13 <tarakbumba> I'm late... Sorry 20:14:31 <ennael> sorry we are trying to think a bit before with malo 20:14:36 <ennael> hard to be multitask :) 20:14:47 <malo> Ok, so let's review a few to start with. 20:15:17 <malo> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:AppStream 20:16:19 <sebsebseb> I think AppStream would be great, if it's ready enough for Mageia :) plus Mageia was one of the distro's that was supporting it and such 20:16:33 <malo> This was proposed today, so it was not much discussed: we can let the author elaborate it until next meeting, and any volunteer to declare hisself. 20:16:54 <MrsB> I'm sure stormi attended a conference about this when it was first proposed. May be worth discussing it with him 20:16:55 <tarakbumba> malo: i think so too. 20:17:03 <sebsebseb> MrsB: not sure about stormi, but misc did 20:17:28 <MrsB> could be wrong, it rings a bell though 20:17:29 <malo> I remind everyone that we should not only judge the coolness of features, but their feasability in the time-frame. 20:17:59 <ennael> stormi attended the meeting with misc 20:18:09 <malo> When a feature is not accepted it does not mean no one can work on it. It just means it won't be for mga4. 20:18:20 <sebsebseb> malo: yep 20:18:36 <malo> second feature: https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Backports_update_applet 20:19:30 <malo> this is an old feature, that makes more sense when backports are actually there 20:19:39 <sander85> indeed 20:19:51 <MrsB> it would be good to have this, or build it into mgaapplet with backports opening 20:20:04 <malo> there is no volunteer yet, although it'd be really sound to have it. 20:20:06 <ennael> boklm told me it was nearly ready. 20:20:10 <ennael> boklm: around ? 20:20:15 <ennael> (we never know) 20:21:17 <ennael> we need to open backports soon 20:21:27 <tarakbumba> I don't think a backports update applet give us much benefit 20:21:27 <ennael> so we should finalize this feature 20:21:48 <malo> tarakbumba: it's useful for security. 20:22:04 <tarakbumba> Backports users should already know how to handle this 20:22:48 <tarakbumba> malo: i thought updates for security, aren't they? 20:23:15 <MrsB> updates don't happen in the same way for backports, there is no core backports updates repository 20:23:30 <malo> Waiting for confirmation, so we'll see next week about this one. 20:23:46 <malo> Next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:BootPartitionShakeup 20:24:07 <AL13N> there was quite some noise on this 20:24:11 <malo> coling: quite controversial that one 20:24:31 <coling> hehe 20:24:36 <AL13N> i myself am not 100% convinced we should actually have this... (although having less to test is great) 20:24:38 <coling> I had to have one :) 20:24:49 <malo> Could we agree here on which questions should coling answer on his proposal? 20:24:53 <coling> (controversial one I mean) 20:25:03 <DavidWHodgins> I thought only /boot/EFI had to be on vfat, not all of /boot? 20:25:21 <sander85> my only concern with that on is upgrades 20:25:25 <coling> DavidWHodgins, yeah but IMO it makes much more sense to have all of EFI partition mounted on /boot 20:25:42 <DavidWHodgins> Putting the initrd on a vfat filesystem, makes it world readable, which is a security problem, if network passwords are in the initrd. 20:25:52 <AL13N> is it really required for UEFI to have a separate /boot? i heard that GPT can have a small beginning partition space for the UEFI loader 20:26:19 <sander85> AL13N: we need /boot partition anyway 20:26:22 <coling> Upgrades will definitely be a problem. I don't really see how we could do that sensibly and thus we would have to "support" (to some degree) upgrading systems with different layouts, but that doesn't mean we should support installing them. 20:26:32 <AL13N> i think it may be required to coexist with other OS like windows, but i'm not certain that we do need this 20:26:55 <AL13N> i thought UEFI allowed for direct kernel boot 20:27:08 <boklm> ennael: for backports, the tools that move packages from backports_testing to backports needs to be done, but I 20:27:16 <AL13N> to me this sounds like more work than it's worth 20:27:22 <boklm> ennael: for backports, the tools that move packages from backports_testing to backports needs to be done, but I plan to finish git setup before doing that 20:27:27 <coling> AL13N, mounting EFI partition as /boot allows easy coexistence with other distros and windows quite nicely. 20:27:39 <coling> (it's how my system is setup) 20:27:44 <AL13N> coling: yes, but is that really required as default? 20:27:55 <AL13N> coling: i mean, are most newbies gonna do dualbooting? 20:27:58 <AL13N> on UEFI? 20:28:02 <DavidWHodgins> I have multiple m3 installs. Wouldn't they cause conflicts with each other? 20:28:12 <sander85> AL13N: maybe not, but so what? 20:28:31 <sander85> it still good idea to have separate /boot and make testing easier 20:28:41 <coling> No we could jump through all sorts of hoops, to set up all kind of weird layouts. That's not really the point of the proposal. I'm trying to get a layout that is the most sensible for all scenarios and then aim to support that layout well, not a myriad of "possible" layouts. 20:28:41 <AL13N> coling: also, what if you're installing mageia, but there's already another distro installed with it's own bootloader mechanism? 20:29:04 <coling> AL13N, that's what the bootloader specification is meant to address. 20:29:15 <ennael> boklm: ok 20:29:30 <AL13N> coling: i mean, shouldn't mageia be in one partition then, with a chainload from that other distro's bootloader? 20:29:45 <AL13N> coling: and thus we shouldn't have to make a /boot partition? 20:29:49 <coling> AL13N, no need. They can all share happily. 20:29:54 <AL13N> ah 20:30:01 <DavidWHodgins> While I understand the rationale for only supporting one method, I don't think it's realistic. Would make upgrading without repartitioning much more difficult. 20:30:21 <coling> DavidWHodgins, yeah I think upgrades would really just have to carry on as they are setup. 20:30:28 <AL13N> i would actually prefer this to wait until bootloader specification is done 20:30:35 <AL13N> s/done/used/ 20:30:35 <coling> But we could still aim towards only supporting this on new installs. 20:30:57 <DavidWHodgins> And doesn't grub fail with some raid setups, which is why we force lilo, if booting with raid? 20:31:18 <coling> DavidWHodgins, yeah. It's this kind of thing I want to avoid by design. 20:31:47 <malo> All right guys, if we have 42 features and each of them needs highly technical discussion, it's not going to work in a meeting ... 20:31:53 <coling> Just don't allow it. If you want a raid / then have a separate /boot. 20:31:57 <DavidWHodgins> Unless we decide not to support upgrading, for such systems, I don't see how this can work. 20:31:59 <coling> Yeah :) 20:32:09 * coling doesn't want to not support upgrades. 20:32:15 <coling> Anyway, lets leave this one for now. 20:32:20 <coling> IT's too controvercial. 20:32:20 <DavidWHodgins> Ok 20:32:39 <ennael> next one let do the one "easy" 20:32:41 <malo> Is there a consensus on dropping that one? 20:32:41 <coling> We can perhaps come to some agreements over simplifying the options offered and try and work towards things as we go. 20:33:04 <sander85> malo: nope :) 20:33:06 <MrsB> there's nothing wrong with having a default for new installs though 20:33:20 <AL13N> yes 20:33:25 <sander85> we can still aim for it 20:33:39 <coling> malo, let's drop it in it's full form, but discuss further (at a later date) about simplifying the options offered for new installs going forward. 20:33:40 <malo> then we shall leave that feature to more discussion for the next two weeks 20:33:47 <coling> malo, yeah. 20:33:50 <coling> Sounds good to me. 20:34:06 <malo> coling: you have two weeks to update your proposal then :) 20:34:14 <AL13N> coling: keep in mind you have less than 4 months for ALL your features 20:34:30 <coling> Will keep that in mind :) 20:34:32 <malo> next: https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:CheckboxesToChooseDE 20:34:51 <AL13N> personally, i don't think this is useful 20:34:55 <MrsB> that's similar to my one 20:35:17 <ennael> can be interesting and not expensive to implement :) 20:35:24 <coling> AL13N, very useful for testing :) 20:36:00 <AL13N> if the person completes it, i see no reason why not 20:36:26 <AL13N> ok, next 20:36:27 <ennael> malo: accepted :) 20:36:29 <MrsB> my one https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Independently_install_desktop_environments 20:36:48 <malo> MrsB: can you merge the two? 20:37:13 <tarakbumba> Those two should be merged. 20:37:25 <AL13N> if the other person desires this, yes 20:37:29 <MrsB> i'll do it tomorrow 20:37:44 <AL13N> MrsB: contact the other person first to get his idea on this, maybe 20:37:47 <MrsB> yep 20:37:50 <tarakbumba> I think this too should be accepted. 20:37:56 <AL13N> ok, next 20:38:16 <MrsB> why are features using camelcase btw? 20:38:28 <malo> Next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:DeprecateCrond 20:38:34 <AL13N> MrsB: WikiConventions 20:38:38 <sebsebseb> MrsB: uhmm your feature is basicaly what I suggested in that email isn't it? when I said about the de bit in the classiccal installer not being that clear? GNOME KDE, and custom, what's custom? 20:38:41 <ennael> malo: needs more information 20:38:51 <ennael> too controversial for tonight, discussion is not finished 20:38:59 <sebsebseb> malo: also when I saw checkboxestochoosede I thought that was similar to what I was on about 20:39:01 <sebsebseb> uh for MrsB 20:39:13 <malo> Ok coling that one needs more discussion as well 20:39:31 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:DesktopGreeter 20:39:49 <coling> malo sure if you like. I will reply to Bruno's mail. 20:39:59 <coling> (personally I think it's a no brainer tho') 20:40:17 <tarakbumba> Coming from Pardus, Desktop Greeter is a nice feature but not gives much benefit i think 20:40:21 <MrsB> I really like this one 20:40:29 <AL13N> coling: i think xinetd should be abolished and crontab use a generator 20:40:47 <coling> AL13N, I really don't think a generator would work for crontab. 20:40:50 <MrsB> it couldbe used to help new users with some info too and give handy links to join ML's etc 20:41:05 <ennael> we had it in mandriva 20:41:12 <tarakbumba> Desktop Greeter is KDE centered and with GNOME, LXDE and other DEs it requires much work 20:41:16 <sander85> i don't think we have enough people to work on it, do we? 20:41:21 <coling> AL13N, I'd rather just convert the 70odd packages than write a generator that will only work for a subset of functionality. 20:41:50 <ennael> please guys 20:41:57 <ennael> what are we spoken about ? :) 20:42:05 * coling will shut up :) 20:42:08 <ennael> :p 20:42:21 * ennael does not want to spend the night here :p 20:42:35 <malo> So unless there is improvement on the proposal, this one will be dropped next meeting. 20:42:39 <AL13N> ok 20:42:44 <tarakbumba> ok 20:42:44 <ennael> about desktop greeter maybe we can reuse the one used in mandriva 20:42:55 <sebsebseb> MrsB: yep your feature is basicaly what I was suggesting in that email, read the whole proposal now :) 20:43:01 <tarakbumba> ennael: it is not like MandrivaGalaxy 20:43:01 <ennael> I will ping neoclust about it 20:43:09 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:DiskDrakeNetworkDevices 20:43:11 <ennael> tarakbumba: then it's not clear enough 20:43:14 <MrsB> sebsebseb: :) 20:43:52 <tarakbumba> ennael: Pardus's Kaptan and Chakra's Kapudan simply a walkthrough for new users to configure DE 20:44:10 <tarakbumba> Themes, icons, etc. 20:44:19 <ennael> woot ok 20:44:29 <AL13N> malo: it's in essense a good idea, though this may need to be pushed towards mageia5, i got stuck when i tried this for mageia 3 20:45:06 <AL13N> malo: if i get the dependant part working well, this could be done in time, or it could be pushed to next release 20:45:41 <sander85> next release seems like a better goal for this one 20:45:45 <tarakbumba> If can be done, it would be very nice i think. But man/woman power? 20:45:56 <AL13N> i'm working on this 20:46:09 <AL13N> but i got stuck, i kinda need some help with diskdrake devs 20:46:24 <AL13N> i'm hoping the dev SIG can help me with this 20:46:34 <malo> AL13N: hoepfully the git move will help as well 20:46:43 <AL13N> let's keep it for now, we can easily drop if it can't be finished in time 20:46:44 <tarakbumba> So, postpone this for mga5... 20:47:11 <ennael> ok next ! 20:47:34 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:DiskDrakeRescan 20:47:47 <AL13N> this is the one that needs to be finished for the previous one 20:47:54 <AL13N> let's do same 20:47:57 <AL13N> next? 20:48:02 <tarakbumba> ok 20:48:19 <malo> postpone? 20:48:23 <AL13N> (30+ features in 12 min) 20:48:44 <malo> next: is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:DoNotShipSysVInitScripts 20:49:01 <AL13N> fine for me 20:49:03 <AL13N> next 20:49:19 <sander85> yeah, should be accepted 20:49:30 <malo> coling: \o/ 20:49:42 <ennael> :) 20:49:44 <tarakbumba> Obvious result of the systemd. Should be accepted. Archlinux already did it and no problems 20:49:48 <DavidWHodgins> Still have to have /etc/rc.d etc, to allow installation of third party packages that still use init scripts. 20:49:56 <coling> That's more of an aim then a real feature tho'. 20:50:03 <AL13N> yes 20:50:09 <coling> No great shakes if it's missed really! 20:50:19 <coling> But still. 20:50:20 <coling> :) 20:50:36 <ennael> ok next :) 20:50:37 <malo> Ok, this one is in! 20:50:55 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:DrakXtoolsReview 20:51:42 <tarakbumba> This is not new one i think. Manq 20:51:53 <malo> old one, no one to back it up ... 20:51:59 <ennael> no name on it 20:52:00 <ennael> ? 20:52:01 <sander85> AFAIK this is WIP.. not sure it will make it for mga4 20:52:11 <tarakbumba> Manq/Manpower/ 20:52:12 <AL13N> ok, postpone for now 20:52:15 <ennael> we need first to setup a dev team 20:53:16 <sander85> neeext :) 20:53:26 <AL13N> malo: ping? 20:53:42 <malo> ok next: https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:EditionBasedScreenshots 20:53:42 <ennael> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:EditionBasedScreenshots 20:53:45 <ennael> oups 20:53:57 * malo is eating at the moment 20:54:10 <AL13N> sorry 20:54:31 <ennael> so personnalized design given the media we are on 20:54:32 <tarakbumba> It depends on artwork team i think. Should be accepted, like Mandriva ones... 20:54:35 <ennael> live, dvd... 20:54:41 <ennael> not only 20:54:48 <AL13N> this seems not really a feature... isn't this already like this? 20:54:54 <MrsB> is this the advertising screens in the installers? 20:54:55 <ennael> it needs some modificatoin in installer too 20:55:14 <sander85> i don't think we really need this one 20:55:22 <tarakbumba> So, postpone this until dev team setup? 20:55:52 <malo> ok, next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:AutomatedTesting 20:55:54 <sebsebseb> I think that one could be a nice idea, but will mean more work for Atelier or whatever so hmm 20:55:57 <sebsebseb> the screenshots one 20:56:08 <sebsebseb> don't really need it as such either right now I think 20:56:35 <malo> That one is underspecified :-) 20:56:59 <tarakbumba> This one should be accepted. It takes heavy load from QA team a bit. 20:57:08 <MrsB> there are a number of packages which have tests which are not utilised at build time 20:57:13 <ennael> maybe we could have some steps 20:57:23 <ennael> not a full automatized system but start with some parts 20:57:30 <ennael> so it needs more information 20:57:35 <malo> yes, it's not really part of the release, more part of the process. 20:57:37 <sander85> malo: you have 2 weeks :P 20:57:47 <malo> ennael: I need to talk more to pterjan 20:58:06 <malo> but it is also linked with the feature about rpmlint 20:58:23 <coling> :) 20:58:29 <ennael> yep so accpeted but it needs more information 20:59:37 <malo> well, it's not big a risk to accept :-) 20:59:54 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Descriptions_of_rpm_in_rpmdrake_available_in_different_languages 21:00:08 <boklm> I think Glen started to work on using os-autoinst on mageia 21:00:12 <ennael> I think we have something to manage it 21:00:19 <ennael> in mdv 21:00:34 <tarakbumba> It is hard to manage for i18n teams 21:01:06 <tarakbumba> Like me, only soft translator it is unmanagable. 21:01:18 <malo> information cannot be in packages: there it's too hard to keep the translations 21:01:50 <sebsebseb> yep that feature is to much translation work I think 21:01:51 <sander85> i remember that our Estonian translator told that this is quite pointless and a waste of translator's time 21:02:12 <tarakbumba> sander85: He was right. 21:02:23 <AL13N> i have nothing against this, but otoh, if noone translates it, it doesn't break anything 21:02:30 <sebsebseb> also the programming languages tend to use English for stuff in them, and well English is the computer language really 21:03:21 <papoteur> the users of Mageia are not only computer programmers. 21:03:27 <AL13N> maybe if we had more i18n translaters... we can easily postpone this to mga5 21:03:29 <tarakbumba> Also, for me, altough i know English; i usually do not look at summaries for packages in rpmdrake 21:03:44 <sebsebseb> yep I don't think there is enough people in i18n for that fuature, so it should be rejected really I guess for now? 21:03:56 <ennael> ok so we let it down for now 21:04:20 <AL13N> are we gonna do all the other 20+ ones? we'll have another hour for a meeting then.... 21:04:26 <malo> yep, 10000 packages add a lot to translate. And when we think that the website is not even translated in more that 8 or 9 languages ... http://www.mageia.org/langs/report.php 21:04:28 <[mbot> [ www.mageia.org translation report ] 21:04:28 <AL13N> it's getting late-ish 21:04:37 <MrsB> could something like packages.debian.org help? 21:05:00 <sebsebseb> yep do the next lot :), then it's done and :) 21:05:06 <malo> next we accept https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Independently_install_desktop_environments 21:05:11 <AL13N> MrsB: AppStream could help for this 21:05:11 <tarakbumba> 00:04 AM here :( 21:05:26 <sebsebseb> tarakbumba: yeah, but for your feature it's probably worth the wait :d 21:05:27 <AL13N> malo: ok 21:05:33 <malo> AL13N: let's finish half 21:05:41 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Independently_install_desktop_environments 21:05:53 <malo> no, next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:New_Mgarepo 21:05:54 <silver_hook> Hullo, I’m a a Mageia noobie and I’ll excuse myself for popping up here o/ 21:05:59 <AL13N> malo: or go alot faster 21:06:10 <sebsebseb> silver_hook: normally fine it's just packaging meeting is on at the moment 21:06:20 <MrsB> hi silver_hook, welcome to mageia. It's a meeting here at the moment 21:06:22 <malo> silver_hook: welcome! 21:06:22 <AL13N> silver_hook: np, but we're just in a meeting so plz wait until we're finished 21:06:43 <AL13N> malo: accept, he's already working on this 21:06:43 <silver_hook> sebsebseb: Aha, I’ll just shut up untill then. 21:06:45 <tarakbumba> malo: didn't we discuss before? Merging two proposals? 21:07:12 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Predefinedpackageselection 21:07:40 <AL13N> we sort of have that, i would reject 21:07:54 <ennael> maybe rather reorganize the personnalized screen 21:07:56 <malo> it seems related to MrsB's one 21:07:59 <tarakbumba> Agree with AL13N. 21:08:05 <ennael> it's quite a mess and outdated 21:08:06 <malo> ennael: yes. 21:08:10 <MrsB> isn't it what we already have? 21:08:31 <MrsB> i'll tidy that page tomorrow 21:08:36 <AL13N> sure, but is that a feature? it should be worded differently, if it's just updating the personalized screen 21:08:48 <AL13N> ok, next? 21:08:51 <malo> MrsB: thanks! 21:09:05 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Ranking_system_for_packages 21:09:24 <AL13N> too much work and not enough benefit 21:09:28 <malo> needs a volunteer, so we wait till next week. 21:09:32 <MrsB> that ties in with appstream too 21:09:35 <AL13N> especially since AppStream has scoring 21:09:40 <tarakbumba> Fancy but not much benefit i think. 21:10:00 <AL13N> ok, next 21:10:04 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Rpmlint_enhancement 21:10:26 <ennael> could be nice to implement 21:10:28 <AL13N> accepted, next 21:10:32 <danf_> This one is pretty straightforward--I posted patches for a few to the list already 21:10:33 <tarakbumba> That should be accepted. And rpmlint should follow policies 21:10:34 <malo> yes 21:10:47 <coling> next :) 21:10:49 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Spectool_enhancement 21:11:04 <MrsB> is somebody keeping track? 21:11:08 <malo> to allow having SOURCE point to git points 21:11:13 <malo> MrsB: I am :-) 21:11:19 <MrsB> phew! :D 21:11:21 <malo> MrsB: and ennael as well 21:11:25 <ennael> yep 21:11:28 <AL13N> malo: isn't this what new mgarepo does too? 21:11:50 <AL13N> MrsB: we'll have logs anyway :-) 21:11:56 <MrsB> true 21:11:57 <tarakbumba> That one is very nice. It reminds me PKGBUILDS of Archlinux. It can be done with simple bash script 21:12:27 <AL13N> malo: the new mgarepo page says that it can autocreate tarball from git/svn source? 21:12:29 <AL13N> or am i mistaken? 21:12:44 <ennael> it is at least a target 21:12:48 <malo> AL13N: possible I haven't read :-) 21:12:48 <ennael> boklm: ? 21:12:58 <malo> Maybe the two can be merged 21:13:02 <AL13N> agreed 21:13:04 <AL13N> next 21:13:06 <tarakbumba> I think this feature includes local builds. 21:13:06 <malo> let's review next week. 21:13:18 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Tool_for_writing_iso_on_USB_stick 21:13:23 <coling> AL13N, you are correct, but it *might* be more sensible to generate and store tarball to binrepo as that means less chance of network issues during submit if 3rd party git repos are allowed. 21:13:32 <MrsB> \o/ 21:13:42 <ennael> malo: this is a msut to have 21:13:43 <ennael> must 21:13:47 <AL13N> coling: details, details... 21:13:47 <malo> that one is quite demanded, and there is already code 21:13:50 <sebsebseb> Yes I think there should be a GUI for putting ISO's to USB. 21:13:52 <ennael> still we need somebody to implement 21:14:03 * tarakbumba will not be here next meeting unfortunately. 21:14:06 <ennael> so call for it on -dev in coming days 21:14:10 <sebsebseb> dd can be complex for people. GUI is nice :) 21:14:17 <AL13N> wasn't David also working on this and had another person who contacted him to do this? 21:14:28 <DavidWHodgins> I've got it working, using dialog and xdialog, just need to add the translation part, and a few other small things. 21:14:31 <MrsB> mint/suse rebrand existing tools 21:14:41 <malo> Anyone has a student around? This is a perfect short student project. 21:14:57 <malo> Anyone is a student? :-) 21:15:03 <MrsB> be good to have a windows version too 21:15:06 <sebsebseb> tarakbumba: right so if they go through the whole list now, they can look back next meeting, and probably won't matter as much if you miss :d 21:15:28 <AL13N> DavidWHodgins: who was that other person that might help on this? 21:15:53 <DavidWHodgins> No one else. I did this when I found out mandriva-seed doesn't work on Mageia 3. 21:16:07 <malo> DavidWHodgins: can you update the feature page with your tool? 21:16:18 <AL13N> DavidWHodgins: i thought i recently saw someone contact you and you offered to let him work on your tool? 21:16:24 <DavidWHodgins> I've already added it. 21:16:26 <malo> we need volunteers on that one 21:16:37 <malo> let's rediscuss it next meeting 21:16:40 <AL13N> k 21:16:44 <tarakbumba> ok 21:16:48 <sebsebseb> ok 21:16:50 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:InstallMissingSoftware 21:16:59 <papoteur> I worked on a revamp of usb-imagewriter, from Ubuntu. 21:17:00 <ennael> no :) 21:17:16 <MrsB> that's what mint use iinm papoteur 21:17:30 <sebsebseb> I think that is a good feature to have. 21:17:31 <papoteur> MrsB: Yes, too. 21:17:44 <papoteur> But no more Ubuntu ;) 21:17:47 <malo> it's weird, and from my understanding it's about installing all the suggests of the currently installed packages. 21:18:05 <AL13N> yes 21:18:08 <AL13N> but not a bad idea 21:18:14 <malo> I'm sure that there is a urpmi one-liner that can do it. 21:18:23 <MrsB> malo I think it's more like ubuntu restricted drivers thing 21:18:24 <AL13N> malo: i haven't found it 21:18:42 <sebsebseb> yep it's like ubuntu-restricted-extras I think 21:18:49 <ennael> I'm really not fond of this 21:18:52 <sander85> hmm, it even doesn't have name on it.. drop it 21:19:01 <MrsB> but to include the extra whatnots people usually install 21:19:01 <AL13N> we can choose at install if we want tainted 21:19:09 <sebsebseb> it's just a easy way to install propritary software and such, I think that's the idea of the feature 21:19:29 <sebsebseb> AL13N: yeah, but got to enable tained, with this, it's just accept it and install the stuff I think the fature 21:19:39 <malo> MrsB: I don't like it then ... 21:19:42 <MrsB> nonfree is on the isos now so partly redundant but there are things like media codecs etc 21:19:49 <AL13N> i don't like it then either 21:19:56 <malo> sebsebseb: it needs to be better written 21:20:01 <sebsebseb> I think the feature would be nice to have probably really, but is ok to skip for Mageia 4 to 21:20:03 <AL13N> let's reject this for now 21:20:03 <MrsB> could do with more info maybe 21:20:18 <malo> ok if it's not better written in 2 weeks, we reject. 21:20:30 <MrsB> maybe contact the proposer 21:20:34 <AL13N> i thought it was some kind of question on nonfree/tainted and then a redo of missing suggests and updates from selected mirrors 21:20:35 <sebsebseb> yep 21:20:37 <sebsebseb> and yep 21:20:37 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:InstallerLeftSideRedesign 21:20:43 <MrsB> except there isn't one 21:20:48 <sebsebseb> contact proposer , get it better written or try to :d 21:21:16 <AL13N> malo: the basic idea is to be able to go back steps in the installer and visibly see it 21:21:17 <sebsebseb> persoanlly I think the installer could do with some big changes maybe here and there, but not for Mageia 4 21:21:33 <malo> going back is very tricky 21:21:41 <MrsB> not so much that, read the detail 21:21:45 <AL13N> or even just a cancel 21:21:55 <sebsebseb> what's wrong with the left side of the installer though? :d 21:21:59 <tarakbumba> should be discussed for mga5 or mga6 i think 21:22:02 <MrsB> more making it more dynamic 21:22:05 <AL13N> nothing, except it's completely static 21:22:17 <AL13N> what is highlighted is often the wrong step 21:22:23 <AL13N> or somethings steps are skipped 21:22:25 <AL13N> etc.... 21:22:34 <sander85> i'm quite fine with how it is.. tho' i don't use it too often :) 21:22:39 <malo> it's an anonymous proposal, so we see in 2 weeks if someone steps up, but it's probably a no. 21:22:42 <AL13N> but i guess no dev team makes this difficult 21:22:47 <MrsB> AL13N: you should add your name/email to that one 21:22:51 <AL13N> yes 21:22:51 <sebsebseb> I think that feature should be rejected probably, or I don't undersatnd it, what's wrong with the left side? 21:22:54 <AL13N> i should've 21:23:08 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Kscreen 21:23:13 <malo> we accept 21:23:19 <malo> objections? 21:23:31 <sander85> accept 21:23:33 <sebsebseb> yep accept that, isn't that one of neoclust 's features to ? 21:23:39 <tarakbumba> accept 21:23:43 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:LoginWithKeyboard 21:23:51 <sebsebseb> accept that to I think 21:23:59 <AL13N> that should be accepted 21:24:01 <tarakbumba> accept 21:24:11 <AL13N> it canbe postponed if noone doesit 21:24:14 <AL13N> but it would be nice 21:24:23 * coling is confused iwth that one 21:24:30 <coling> I login with just keyboard every day. 21:24:39 <coling> I guess it refers to KDM? 21:24:46 <sander85> this probably depends on DM 21:24:47 <DavidWHodgins> coling: Varies with which dm is used. 21:24:48 <ennael> it works in kdm :) 21:25:03 <sander85> and i'm not sure we can do much about DMs 21:25:06 <coling> The proposal is kinda unclear then. 21:25:16 <AL13N> oic 21:25:28 <coling> It works in GDM, KDM and ??? 21:25:31 <AL13N> it's not really a feature, it's more of a bugfix for a dm then? 21:25:39 <coling> Yeah 21:25:43 <coling> So rejected? ;) 21:25:44 <sander85> yeah, and an upstream bugfix 21:25:45 <coling> :p 21:25:50 <AL13N> next 21:26:01 <malo> it's more about watching that it works for next versions. 21:26:14 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:MTP_%28Media_Transport_Protocol%29_Support 21:26:30 <sebsebseb> I think that should be accepted. 21:26:31 <coling> Again, this is probably a "we want this to work" 21:26:46 <malo> coling: yes. 21:26:55 <malo> something to watch and test 21:26:55 <ennael> yep 21:26:55 <AL13N> should be a bug instead 21:27:00 <AL13N> ah well 21:27:02 <AL13N> next 21:27:04 <coling> I doubt it's controversial 21:27:06 <sander85> this is feature request.. 21:27:06 <coling> :) 21:27:09 <MrsB> :D 21:27:12 <ennael> well it's nice to announce it just works 21:27:15 <malo> next is hehe 21:27:15 <coling> Indeed. 21:27:26 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Mate 21:27:31 * ennael runs 21:27:31 <sander85> accept 21:27:33 <tarakbumba> That's mine 21:27:35 <DavidWHodgins> accept 21:27:40 <coling> I say accept. 21:27:46 <sebsebseb> accept mate :) 21:27:49 <malo> no one objects? 21:27:52 <ennael> I would like to add something on that one 21:27:55 <MrsB> accept 21:27:57 <AL13N> i think if this and the next are wellstructured and accepted by Gnome3 maintainer, this should be accepted 21:28:07 <ennael> agree *if* we have some discussions between DE maintainers 21:28:08 * sebsebseb trust tarakbumba to provide a good Mate implementaton in Mageia :) 21:28:19 <ennael> so we can have a nice integration for all our DEs 21:28:23 <tarakbumba> sebsebseb: thanks 21:28:25 <AL13N> ennael: good thinking, the DE maintainers should talk to eachother within the DE SIG 21:28:31 <ennael> it's a question of image and confort for our users 21:28:41 <ennael> AL13N: you said SIG ? :) 21:28:42 <sebsebseb> tarakbumba: might end up using the Mate version of Nautilus in Mageia 4 sometimes depends :d 21:28:45 <coling> Yeah I'd very much like to get a common feel across DEs if possible. 21:28:47 <ennael> malo: he said SIG ! 21:28:58 <ennael> :) 21:28:59 <malo> ennael: \o/ 21:29:03 <sander85> next? 21:29:06 <ennael> :p 21:29:07 <tarakbumba> oK 21:29:12 <malo> accepted then 21:29:15 <ennael> tarakbumba: is that ok? 21:29:19 <tarakbumba> Thank you! 21:29:30 <malo> next is https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Feature:Cinnamon 21:29:32 <sebsebseb> we need Cinnamon accepted to really I think to go with Mate, but right not on that feature yet or? 21:29:34 <sebsebseb> ok there it is :d 21:29:36 <tarakbumba> ennael: I' ll hard work on that 21:29:42 <ennael> thanks :) 21:29:45 <sebsebseb> Mate and Cinmaon should both go into Mageia 4 I think :) 21:29:49 <AL13N> i think this one is similar 21:29:57 <tarakbumba> I think Cinnamon is similar. Accept 21:29:59 <DavidWHodgins> I agree. Include it. 21:29:59 <AL13N> if it's both up to par, it should go 21:30:04 <malo> tarakbumba: the integration and uniform look and feel is important for Mageia 21:30:11 <AL13N> same remark from ennael though 21:30:13 <ennael> again same comment :) 21:30:16 <AL13N> :-) 21:30:16 <MrsB> if we can, we should 21:30:23 <sander85> so next :P 21:30:25 <tarakbumba> malo: I'm triying for that. 21:30:27 <coling> I think it would be kinda unfair to all mate and nak cininamon really. 21:30:40 <sebsebseb> coling: nak ? 21:30:45 <tarakbumba> ? 21:30:46 <AL13N> ack/nack 21:30:52 <coling> erm, s/all/ack/ 21:30:56 <ennael> :) 21:31:00 <malo> ok, accept then, but effort required for integration 21:31:01 <sebsebseb> yep Mate and Cinnamon go together really or kind of 21:31:06 <coling> So ACK from me. 21:31:09 <sebsebseb> malo: yep :) 21:31:21 <sander85> how many left? 21:31:23 <tarakbumba> Ok. 21:31:27 * ennael is tired :) 21:31:31 <malo> Should we stop now that we have done 2/3rd 21:31:33 <malo> ? 21:31:39 <AL13N> there's a big one coming now 21:31:41 <sander85> i think so :S 21:31:42 <ennael> yes ! 21:31:44 <sebsebseb> oh maybe Unity for Mageia 5 as well heh heh. oh and maybe Trinity for Mageia 6 to heh heh again :d 21:31:49 <AL13N> another controversial coling one 21:31:54 <coling> Pah! 21:31:58 <ennael> what about having a meetinng next week for once? 21:31:58 <coling> :) 21:32:08 <tarakbumba> I think we should stop after this. 21:32:11 <ennael> so that we can close that topic 21:32:15 <sander85> yes, i vote for meeting next week 21:32:16 <AL13N> i'm ok with meeting next week 21:32:23 <MrsB> it's my bedtime too 21:32:29 <ennael> decicated to features only 21:32:30 * coling can hold off on pushing the relevant udev rule :) 21:32:32 <malo> ennael: I'm in Latvia next week, so not present 21:32:42 <coling> I'm in brussells next week. ;) 21:32:44 <ennael> ah I'm in bruxelles too 21:32:53 * ennael needs to buy a better brain 21:33:02 <coling> Upgrade will be allowed. 21:33:04 <tarakbumba> me/ thinks it is already late and he have to package some home stuff for moving... 21:33:08 <ennael> phew 21:33:08 * sebsebseb nearly went to Brussules to for next week, but nope won't be going this time 21:33:11 <AL13N> coling: are you coming for the booth as well? 21:33:16 <tarakbumba> me\ thinks it is already late and he have to package some home stuff for moving... 21:33:18 <coling> AL13N, yeah I'll be around 21:33:20 <malo> tarakbumba: I agree. 21:33:22 <ennael> ok in 2 weeks 21:33:23 <coling> Will take my turn 21:33:28 <AL13N> coling: i'll see you and marja there then 21:33:31 <MrsB> goodnight then folks 21:33:33 <coling> Indeedy :) 21:33:34 <ennael> it lives some time to troll^w^wdiscuss 21:33:40 <sebsebseb> AL13N: thoguht you weren't going :d 21:33:43 <coling> and bribe :) 21:33:44 <AL13N> i wasnt 21:33:49 <AL13N> marja talked me into it 21:33:50 <malo> Ok. so Please everyone read the feature proposals and comment on -dev 21:33:51 <ennael> thanks for attending all 21:33:57 <AL13N> thanks 21:34:05 <coling> Thanks all. 21:34:07 <ennael> have a good night 21:34:07 * sander85 ZzzzZzzzz 21:34:08 <malo> try to reach consensus before the meeting :-) 21:34:12 <tarakbumba> Goodnight! Thank you all for encouraging padawans! 21:34:12 <malo> ennael: thanks! 21:34:13 <sander85> night! 21:34:52 <malo> ennael: endmeeting? 21:34:57 <ennael> #endmeeting