19:08:18 <malo> #startmeeting
19:08:18 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Tue Apr 30 19:08:18 2013 UTC.  The chair is malo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:08:18 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:08:29 <malo> Good evening everyone!
19:08:34 <sebsebseb> hi
19:08:47 <sebsebseb> EVening or morning for MrsB :d
19:08:58 <malo> Welcome to tonight/this morning's meeting
19:09:14 <malo> This is an important one.
19:09:33 <malo> Let's start the first topic
19:09:37 <Solbu> Last meeting before release, right?
19:09:53 <sebsebseb> Solbu: release is delayed
19:10:12 <malo> #topic Mageia 3 release amended schedule
19:10:45 <malo> As you probably know, it was decided yesterday at the council meeting to push back the release by 2 weeks
19:11:15 <malo> So the new release date is for the 18th of May
19:11:38 <malo> #info the new release date is the 18th of May
19:12:21 <malo> The main reason advanced is that we still have too many release blockers
19:12:40 <MrsB> first isos will be produced on 11th
19:12:43 <malo> I think we can agree on that unfortunately
19:12:49 <malo> MrsB: thanks.
19:13:06 <malo> #info first isos will be produced on 11th
19:13:33 <sebsebseb> 1.5 weeks for packagers,  1 week for QA
19:14:01 <malo> sebsebseb: something like that
19:14:02 <wally_> any link about these blockers?
19:14:11 <sebsebseb> malo: yep someting like that :d
19:14:16 <DavidWHodgins> https://pad.riseup.net/p/CidqERC75X9m
19:14:18 <[mbot> [ Riseup Pad ]
19:14:35 <sander85> wally_: https://bugs.mageia.org/buglist.cgi?cmdtype=runnamed&namedcmd=Release%20critical&list_id=5286
19:14:48 <malo> DavidWHodgins, sander85: thanks :-)
19:15:25 <sander85> broadcom is still a big pain in the butt :/
19:15:33 <malo> the pad selects from the release critical the bugs that are still release blocker
19:15:52 <malo> sander85: we'll come to the bugs in a moment.
19:16:30 <malo> Concerning the schedule, it means that from this Thursday night/Friday morning, only freeze push for release critical bugs will be accepted
19:16:39 <malo> no more security updates
19:17:08 <sander85> i'm not sure this is good idea but well..
19:17:24 <malo> #info Freeze for everything except release critical bugs will be in place from Thursday night.
19:17:51 <malo> sander85: we have no choice if we want to release ...
19:18:10 <malo> Everyone ok with the schedule?
19:18:32 <DavidWHodgins> Ok here.
19:18:40 <sander85> well, first we have to have something to release
19:18:42 <sebsebseb> yep 18th May should be good :)
19:18:52 <sebsebseb> sander85: true :d
19:19:32 <sander85> i would say freeze security updates if we have 10-15 release critical bugs left.. with 29 left it's a bit insane..
19:20:30 <malo> sander85: if we don't put a date it's hard to plan a release.
19:20:51 * sebsebseb agrees  with malo
19:21:02 <sander85> again, you can plan release if distro is ready to be released :)
19:21:06 <sander85> currently it's not
19:21:32 <sebsebseb> sander85: by the way the idea is to have 18th May as the release date, may get a tiny bit delayed more though, but probably not hopefuly :)  however also the idea is to try and have Mageia 3 out before Linux Tag a few days after 18th May :d
19:21:35 <malo> sander85: hence the delay, but if we don't setup a date, we never release.
19:21:48 <malo> Anyway, let's go to the bug part.
19:21:50 <sander85> but well, i have to admit i'm a debian fanboy in this category.. they prefer quality over quantity
19:22:04 <malo> #topic Release critical bugs
19:22:10 <sebsebseb> sander85: the council log explains it all when it comes to the  release date
19:22:20 <sebsebseb> council meeting log http://meetbot.mageia.org mageia meeting
19:22:21 <[mbot> [ Index of / ]
19:22:55 <malo> All right, the situation is critical.
19:23:36 <DavidWHodgins> Most of the bugs fit into two catorgies.  Installer (including live), and wireless.
19:24:02 <DavidWHodgins> Very few people capable of working on those.
19:24:04 <sander85> and we can't ignore either of them
19:24:57 <malo> Please everyone have a look at https://bugs.mageia.org/buglist.cgi?cmdtype=runnamed&namedcmd=Release%20critical&list_id=5286 and at the pad https://pad.riseup.net/p/CidqERC75X9m
19:25:00 <[mbot> [ Riseup Pad ]
19:25:19 <sander85> pad is giving me error i can't see it
19:25:40 <malo> As DavidWHodgins says, these bugs are either installer or wireless (broadcom/network-manager/drakx-net)
19:25:52 <Solbu> I can't see either of them. the bugzilla search says the search doesn't exist.
19:25:57 <DavidWHodgins> sander85: I posted a copy to the dev mailing list last week.  I'll see if I can find it there.
19:26:27 <malo> sorry: https://bugs.mageia.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=P1&list_id=5294
19:26:38 <malo> this one should work
19:27:26 <malo> So the difficulty is that these bugs are quite technical to solve.
19:27:45 <DavidWHodgins> https://ml.mageia.org/l/arc/dev/2013-04/msg00550.html
19:27:47 <[mbot> [ dev - Developement discussion list - arc_protect ]
19:28:44 <DavidWHodgins> malo: And that there are few people who know perl and the drakx tools.
19:28:53 <malo> They are currently assigned to several of us, but it does not mean we cannot help.
19:29:48 <malo> Even if we are not expert in Perl or NM or the kernel, we know a lot.
19:30:00 <malo> We know how to work-around many problems
19:30:26 <malo> these workarounds can sometimes be fixes
19:30:59 <malo> But it means that each of us needs to test the RC isos and try to reproduce the listed bugs
19:31:01 <sander85> well, only very few people can implement those fixes
19:31:31 <malo> sander85: but any help we can give tmb, tv, blino, etc. is essential.
19:31:32 <DavidWHodgins> Also, a big part of the problem with wireless is not enough hardware for testing.
19:32:02 <sander85> i have done my best.. but if there is nothing new to test i can't do much more :)
19:32:06 <malo> DavidWHodgins: yes, but it's also because not everyone active in Mageia has actually tested on real hardware.
19:32:28 <malo> As packagers we should not rely on QA only to test the isos.
19:32:41 <sander85> tmb is forced to push new live isos
19:32:50 <sander85> instead of trying to fix broadcom
19:33:37 <malo> Basically, we have the issue that some critical chunks of the distro are only mastered by a few of us.
19:33:38 <MrsB> the RC live isos contained the latest broadcom fixes, he chose that rather than a specific broadcom-wl livecd
19:33:52 <sander85> it really is our release policy that is broken but this is post release topic
19:34:09 <malo> We will try to fix that with packagers groups for Mageia 4.
19:34:32 <malo> But for now, we have to manage without
19:34:56 <malo> and everyone of us should help, otherwise we cannot release ...
19:35:21 <malo> Can I get a Aye Aye from the crowd? :-)
19:35:36 <neoclust> malo: :)
19:35:44 <Solbu> :-)=
19:35:45 <sander85> well, for broadcom we need another test iso
19:36:03 <neoclust> i can't help unfortunatly, i don't have this hardware
19:36:21 <sander85> for NM on gnome isos it seems that tmb maybe did something, but i'm not sure what exactly
19:36:31 <sander85> no comments in bugs
19:36:57 <malo> sander85: there will be new isos, but for now all mappings that work for you from hardware to modules should be send on the -dev
19:38:28 <malo> neoclust: I don't have the hardware either ...
19:38:58 <malo> neoclust: Although I will ask around at the office if anyone has one,
19:40:12 <sander85> well, currently there is not much to test anyway
19:40:26 <neoclust> malo: i can't ask anyone on my office neither :)
19:40:31 <sander85> for some reason net_applet is giving error for most broadcom devices
19:40:44 <sander85> no matter which driver it is told to use
19:40:50 <neoclust> lfazio: maybe you can help if you have a broadcom wifi card :)
19:40:58 <sander85> it just fails and probably only tmb or tv knows why
19:41:11 <malo> sander85: well, I have been asking around if people could reproduce this bug https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9787, but no one tried.
19:41:14 <[mbot> [ Invalid Bug ID ]
19:42:39 <malo> sander85: i know it is frustrating, but we are a team, and in our team, besides tmb and tv, we have collectively a huge knowledge of packaging.
19:42:46 <sander85> malo: i will test it
19:43:19 <malo> and if a few of us gather on IRC and try to figure out the Perl madness of the drakxtools for a specific issue, I'm sure we can go somewhere.
19:43:32 <malo> We cannot only depend on tv, tmb and blino
19:44:09 <DavidWHodgins> I don't think my desktop system supports sleep to ram.
19:44:36 <malo> We need to have the will (as long as we find some time) to at least try to fix our tools.
19:45:03 <sander85> DavidWHodgins: why not?
19:45:43 <DavidWHodgins> Or rather, I've never tried it.  I'll try after the meeting.  I know it can suspend to disk, but I don't know about suspend to ram.
19:45:49 <malo> We are used, for our packages, to look around and deduce fixes on things we don't know. We should try to focus this approach on our own tools.
19:46:17 <sander85> malo: @9787 can't reproduce
19:47:00 <malo> sander85: ok. Can you add a comment?
19:47:05 <MrsB> brb
19:47:20 <sander85> tho' i'm not having fresh profile.. it's an upgrade from mga2 to mga3
19:47:29 <sander85> and before that it was probably mga1 :P
19:47:59 <malo> sander85: can you try when booting from the liveCD?
19:48:15 <malo> Anyway, I don't know what to add for this meeting ...
19:48:48 <malo> #info *Everyone* should try the RC isos on their machines
19:48:59 <sander85> are there any other bugs we could debug together?
19:49:12 <barjac> malo: I can't reproduce either - never tried it before, but it works OK.
19:49:33 <malo> #info *Everyone* should help reproduce the release critical bugs
19:50:12 <malo> #info *Everyone* should at least try to figure out some of the release critical bugs to help the Assignee
19:50:51 <malo> #info if we don't make progress this week, there is no point having a release date in 18 days
19:51:27 <malo> barjac: thanks.
19:52:30 <sander85> malo: are you using NM or mageia tools to configure network? i have seen NM freezing panel when it can't get connection to work
19:52:43 <malo> I don't want to seem forceful to everyone, but collectively we need to raise to the challenge.
19:52:44 <sander85> malo: any errors in .xsession-erros?
19:57:10 <malo> sander85: I'll have a look.
19:57:11 <malo> Everyone got the message? :-P
19:57:11 <malo> Ennael would have used matches, but we are a community, so it's just up to us to work hard on making a good release
19:57:11 <malo> :-)
19:57:11 <malo> #topic anything else?
19:57:16 <malo> ah
19:57:54 <DavidWHodgins> Nothing else here.
19:59:01 <malo> All right. Now, let's start the hunt.
19:59:12 <malo> Thanks everyone for attending!
19:59:16 <malo> #endmeeting