20:10:22 <ennael> #startmeeting
20:10:22 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Tue Jan  8 20:10:22 2013 UTC.  The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:10:22 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
20:10:27 <ennael> #chair tmb
20:10:27 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: ennael tmb
20:11:19 <ennael> first of all happy new year everybody
20:11:29 <rindolf> Happy New Year.
20:11:33 <Solbu> :-)=
20:11:48 <spturtle> a magic new year
20:12:02 <Luigi12_work> every year is magic for Mageia
20:12:15 <ennael> ok first topic
20:12:19 <ennael> #topic Mageia 3 release (planning, freeze, coming isos)
20:12:44 <ennael> so have you all in mind date for version freeze ?
20:12:58 <Luigi12_work> it's tomorrow isn't it?
20:13:00 <grenoya> too early /o\
20:13:14 <ennael> indeed tomorrow evening
20:13:21 <rindolf> OK.
20:13:29 <rindolf> Which packages does it pertain to?
20:13:31 <ennael> is it clear for everybody about what it means ?
20:13:36 <spturtle> so for every new version push you have to solve 2 bugs?
20:13:46 <Luigi12_work> lol
20:13:49 <anaselli> yes mageia 3 is frozen my packages not :p
20:14:03 <ennael> please guys
20:14:10 <Solbu> ennael: Unsure, this is my first versionfreeze as packages. So this means that normal packagers can't submith, right?
20:14:18 <Solbu> *as packager
20:14:33 <ennael> they cannot submit new version
20:14:37 <ennael> new releases are allowed
20:14:53 <anaselli> no really i need an exception if possible
20:15:09 <ennael> all exceptions will   have to sent on -dev ML
20:15:16 <rindolf> OK.
20:15:17 <Solbu> Can't or prohibited? (THere's a difference)
20:15:18 <anaselli> yes
20:15:19 <ennael> explaining why we should agree on this
20:15:47 <Luigi12_work> also you should try to test locally first and make sure it works
20:15:50 <ennael> at one moment we must stop and focus on fixing bugs
20:17:01 <ennael> #chair boklm
20:17:01 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: boklm ennael tmb
20:17:48 <ennael> anything to add on version freeze ?
20:17:53 <Luigi12_work> yes
20:18:23 <ennael> and ?
20:18:28 <Luigi12_work> just for those that didn't see, our youri-check tool http://check.mageia.org/cauldron/updates.html lists packages with newer versions elsewhere, but misses some
20:18:29 <[mbot> [ updates global report ]
20:18:34 <Luigi12_work> so I made a list of missed ones and posted to -dev
20:18:59 <anaselli> just a thing (silly)
20:19:02 <Luigi12_work> just in case you didn't see, they're here:  https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/2013-January/021196.html   https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/2013-January/021334.html
20:19:03 <anaselli> to add
20:19:03 <[mbot> [ [Mageia-dev] outdated packages missed by youri ]
20:19:19 <Luigi12_work> just wanted to make sure everyone saw that, that's all, back to you ennael
20:19:40 <ennael> thanks for that list
20:20:11 <Luigi12_work> you're welcome
20:20:33 <ennael> together with version freeze beta 2 release is planned for next week
20:20:39 <ennael> see planning on https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia_3_development#Development_Planning
20:21:15 <ennael> we will start working on isos this we
20:21:26 <Luigi12_work> so ISO testing should have started about yesterday?  :o)  I know you're going to address this, but wasn't the plan to do mass rebuild by beta2?  Or is it beta3?
20:21:49 <ennael> mass rebuild is in topic list
20:21:53 <ennael> be patient :)
20:21:56 <Luigi12_work> ok, sorry
20:22:25 <ennael> as always you can help QA to test these isos
20:22:31 <ennael> and join MrsB on this
20:22:32 <MrsB> \o/
20:23:55 <ennael> anything else on that topic?
20:24:06 <MrsB> any volunteers?
20:24:50 <ennael> maybe they are shy
20:25:02 <MrsB> I'm sure that's what it is
20:25:38 <MrsB> If you'd like to help out please send a msg to qa-discuss later :)
20:26:23 <ennael> ok :)
20:26:30 <ennael> next topic then
20:26:32 <rindolf> I'd like to volunteer, but I'm always get distracted.
20:26:37 <rindolf> s/get/getting
20:27:50 <rindolf> Next topic?
20:27:57 <ennael> #topic release critical bugs
20:28:23 <ennael> ok as soon as version freeze is done, we will focus on bug fixing and especially release critical one
20:28:34 <ennael> we will make a report avery week
20:28:37 <ennael> every
20:29:01 <ennael> and some of us will poke packagers and testers so that things can be solved
20:29:34 <MrsB> can I give a link of bugs so far?
20:29:45 <ennael> on the 2 previous releases we had always the same pb : release critical bugs did not happen 2 weeks before final release but much sooner
20:29:55 <ennael> and we had only some days to work on
20:30:04 <ennael> which was stressfull
20:30:09 <ennael> https://bugs.mageia.org/buglist.cgi?cmdtype=dorem&remaction=run&namedcmd=release_blocker&sharer_id=69
20:30:30 <ennael> should be known by all and it will be our preferred link for coming weeks :)
20:31:09 <MrsB> my link had alot more :\
20:31:21 <ennael> which one is it ?
20:31:28 <MrsB> not all blockers though http://tinyurl.com/bszn9hf
20:32:19 <pterjan> (sorry for being late)
20:32:28 <leuhmanu> you don't have all for the 'qa' bugs
20:32:50 <leuhmanu> also there is at least one in mga2 for have a good upgrade procedure
20:33:10 <leuhmanu> ,buglist P1
20:33:10 <[mbot> https://bugs.mageia.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=P1
20:33:31 <leuhmanu> ex: https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8157
20:33:33 <[mbot> [ Bug 8157 backport request: bugfix, downloading all rpms option in mgaonline ]
20:33:49 <ennael> ok 38 instead of 35
20:33:59 <ennael> anyway we will review it regularly
20:34:57 <ennael> let use leuhmanu one
20:35:12 <ennael> #url https://bugs.mageia.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=P1
20:36:05 <ennael> anything else on release critical bugs ?
20:37:24 <Solbu> Yes.. One question..
20:37:28 <ennael> yep ?
20:37:32 <Solbu> What makes a bug release critical?
20:37:55 <spturtle> the release manager decides this
20:38:00 <ennael> a bug that makes iso hardly usable that cannot be fixed through further updates
20:38:14 <barjac> Does tv never attend meetings - there are grub2 integration issues that need his attention.
20:38:31 <ennael> barjac: please this is not the subject here
20:38:53 <barjac> ennael: It relates to two bugs in that list
20:39:04 <ennael> we can use mail for this
20:39:24 <Solbu> Right. So it's not something a packager decides, then.
20:39:38 <malo> Solbu: ennael decides :-)
20:39:44 <ennael> well some are quite evidences
20:40:23 <Solbu> Ok. I'm done. :-)=
20:40:24 <tmb> well, you can set a bug as release_critical... it will be reviewed , and dropped priority if its considered faxable post-release
20:40:32 <ennael> yep
20:40:38 <ennael> it can also be discussed on ML
20:40:55 <anaselli> and here during bug review
20:41:06 <ennael> sure
20:41:12 <anaselli> as ennael said every week :)
20:41:14 <ennael> is everything clear on this ?
20:41:34 <MrsB> can i set 2317 release critical?
20:41:45 <AL13N> +1
20:41:57 <tmb> yep
20:42:00 <malo> aye aye
20:42:04 <MrsB> thanks \o/
20:42:24 <DavidWHodgins> Yeah!
20:42:36 <ennael> next topic ?
20:43:07 <sebsebseb> hi
20:43:35 <ennael> ok
20:43:41 <ennael> #topic mass rebuild
20:43:52 <ennael> tmb, pterjan your turn :)
20:44:31 * tmb hides
20:44:33 <pterjan> so, I think just after version freeze is the best time
20:44:47 <ennael> keep in mind we have isos next week
20:45:00 <pterjan> indeed
20:45:15 <ennael> so there is not much time now for it
20:45:23 <ennael> we could postpone isos a bit if needed
20:45:43 <pterjan> I expect it to take 1 day at most
20:45:45 <ennael> any idea about the time needed ?
20:45:46 <ennael> ah
20:45:48 <tmb> yep, but we can put 4 buildhosts x 2 builded each to work on it, so if will be fast
20:46:01 <ennael> so as soon as freeze is done ?
20:46:10 <ennael> then we count dead packages :)
20:46:23 <pterjan> we already have a list of broken ones :P
20:46:30 <tmb> well, the autobuilder shows: http://pkgsubmit.mageia.org/autobuild/
20:46:48 <tmb> 675 packages need fixing or dropped... :)
20:47:07 <Luigi12_work> 675?  I see 732.
20:47:33 <Luigi12_work> oh maybe you subtracted out the ones with a green check mark
20:47:38 <pterjan> 48 packages have been fixed since this run and 16 have been removed.
20:47:50 <Luigi12_work> cool, thanks for the clarification
20:48:53 <ennael> so ?
20:49:26 <pterjan> so let's do  it just after freeze !
20:49:32 <tmb> yep
20:50:00 <spturtle> it would be nice to see which broken packages are on the dvds
20:51:16 <malo> are most of the broken packages without maintainers?
20:52:05 <Luigi12_work> http://check.mageia.org/cauldron/build.html
20:52:06 <[mbot> [ build global report ]
20:52:34 * ennael has a stupid idea
20:52:36 <Luigi12_work> looks like most technically have one
20:52:51 <ennael> what about saying any package not fixed before final release will be removed
20:52:56 <tmb> well, there is firefox and thunderbird on that list too :)
20:53:03 <pterjan> there are a lot of java stuff
20:53:10 <malo> ennael: like ruby, xen, openldap, ...
20:53:12 <pterjan> dmorgan is making good progress
20:53:33 <pterjan> but yes we really need to fix them
20:53:39 <ennael> malo: well having them broken is not a solution
20:53:46 <pterjan> firefox and thunderbird will need security updates
20:53:48 <neoclust> we should all help even if this is not our package
20:53:52 <Luigi12_work> yep, can't issue security updates if they don't build
20:53:56 <malo> ennael: of course
20:54:11 <Solbu> The autobuild doesn't say anything about wether the current build rpm's are still installable. Just that rebuilding failed.
20:54:21 <malo> this shows how stretched we are in the packager team ...
20:54:26 <ennael> if you are ok we will send an email about this
20:54:52 <malo> Solbu: you can see the installation pb at http://check.mageia.org/cauldron/dependencies.html
20:54:53 <[mbot> [ dependencies global report ]
20:54:54 <neoclust> ennael: ok about what ?
20:55:03 <ennael> 21:52 < ennael> what about saying any package not fixed before final release will be removed
20:55:23 <pterjan> I am ok to say that, hopefuly it will motivate people :)
20:55:27 <neoclust> ennael: i am not that OK but i will help to fix automake packages if no one has objection about this
20:55:42 <ennael> ok let see how people react
20:55:44 <pterjan> we can change the decision later if not feasible
20:55:46 <Solbu> malo: I suggest that if we're drpping packages that have problems, let's use the dependencies list for that, and not the «build» list.
20:55:48 <ennael> sure
20:56:37 <MrsB> malo maybe a 'They make mageia: malo' blog post to attract new?
20:56:38 <spturtle> Solbu: both, actually
20:56:56 <ennael> so about mass rebuild
20:57:04 <ennael> when do we start it exactly ?
20:57:15 <ennael> does it mean we stop all submits in between ?
20:57:43 <malo> MrsB: some PR would help; about me, I'm not so sure :-).
20:57:48 <pterjan> ennael: no, no need
20:57:55 <ennael> ok
20:58:06 <ennael> so who is doing it?
20:58:33 <malo> how is the mass rebuild done? some script is bumping rel everywhere?
20:58:45 <pterjan> yes, I think boklm imported such script
20:58:52 <ennael> boklm: ?
20:58:55 <boklm> yes
20:59:08 <boklm> there are a few packages however that need to have release bumped manually
20:59:32 <boklm> or that need to be changed so that it can be bumped automatically
20:59:33 <Solbu> Does this mean that if a build fail, boklm will gett all failed reports?
20:59:33 <Luigi12_work> parser can't find the right place (some specs are confusing in that regard)?
20:59:46 <pterjan> Solbu: good idea ! :P
20:59:50 <Solbu> Hehe
20:59:56 <anaselli> boklm: if they are few, maybe just ask to maintainers/ available packagers
20:59:56 <boklm> pterjan posted a list of those packages
21:00:09 <pterjan> yes I don't remember how many
21:00:14 <pterjan> it was under 100 I think
21:00:38 <boklm> http://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-sysadm/2012-December/004889.html
21:00:39 <[mbot> [ [Mageia-sysadm] Mass rebuild ]
21:00:39 <sander85> why do we have so many java packages? :/ a lot of them are utterly broken.. :P
21:01:13 <pterjan> 75, good
21:01:31 <pterjan> that's doable to bump them manually
21:02:01 * boklm look to see if they can be fixed easily
21:02:06 <boklm> +will
21:02:08 <tmb> well, kernels can be ignored
21:02:24 <boklm> ah yes
21:03:09 <tmb> they will all get rolled up to 3.8 so they will be rebuilt anyhow
21:03:19 <boklm> ok
21:04:05 <sander85> i hope that /proc problem is gone for that time :)
21:04:19 <pterjan> I hope there are not too many packages broken in svn
21:04:31 <pterjan> the autorebuild takes current src.rpm from the mirror
21:04:45 <pterjan> there may have been some new versions in svn that will be rejected
21:04:46 <boklm> maybe we can list the packages that have unsubmitted changes
21:04:50 <pterjan> or broken commits
21:05:06 <pterjan> yes would be good
21:05:20 <malo> Some packages might also fail due to new rpmlint policies, no?
21:05:30 <pterjan> indeed
21:05:32 <malo> like RPM groups, or coling's ones
21:06:00 <sander85> some packages in autobuild fail with make problems.. some jobs count or something.. didn't test them on real BS tho'
21:06:02 <pterjan> we can fix them afterwards
21:06:21 <malo> How are we going to track packages that did not build at the mass rebuild?
21:06:28 <tmb> we could also give freeze push privilegies to the "user" running the script...
21:06:55 <malo> To make sure that they get fixed? Are we doing another mass rebuild later in the release cycle?
21:07:06 <Luigi12_work> or would it be better to reject new versions that are only in SVN that haven't been pushed by tomorrow?
21:07:30 <pterjan> it would be good to check them tonight
21:07:49 <pterjan> and ask the committer to get them uploaded or if not to revert the commit
21:07:51 <anaselli> could you please remove monodevelop-vala? it's been removed upstream at the moment
21:07:54 <tmb> and tell pepole to either fix or revert
21:08:03 <anaselli> so one less
21:08:54 * boklm can make a list of packages with unsubmitted changes
21:08:56 <AL13N> malo: i'm fixing xen, i've been working on it for several days
21:09:48 <malo> AL13N: no worry. Some packages are very painful to maintain ...
21:10:10 <AL13N> i hope i make it in time
21:10:15 <anaselli> ans i'm working on livecd-tools
21:10:30 <anaselli> but i haven't committed anything yet
21:11:14 <malo> tmb, pterjan, boklm, ennael: who is going to follow up on the broken buids? Are bug reports going to be generated? Is it solely on the maintainer responsibility?
21:11:34 <malo> What about nobody's packages?
21:12:33 <boklm> we can make a list of broken packages
21:12:54 <pterjan> malo: I will find a way :)
21:13:25 <pterjan> maybe copy all the failure logs from the bs for the period of the rebuild
21:13:36 <pterjan> actually we will have a list
21:13:43 <pterjan> all packages older
21:14:00 <malo> pterjan: won't failed builds block some other rebuilds?
21:14:09 <pterjan> it shouldn't
21:14:14 <boklm> they will also be in the list of packages with unsubmitted changes
21:14:48 <malo> or are we assuming that if ruby does not build, it's ok, we can use the old binary?
21:15:20 <Luigi12_work> ruby's one we periodically have to make security updates for, it must build
21:15:43 <malo> so it's not as thorough as if we were reboostraping the distro
21:16:08 <malo> (not a criticism, just an observation)
21:16:28 <Luigi12_work> it's not rebootstrapping, the mass rebuild is done against the current repo, not an empty one
21:17:05 <pterjan> malo: yes
21:17:30 <malo> Ok. Maybe we can add to the weekly agenda of release critical bugs, a report on the build situation.
21:17:42 <philippem> pterjan : is the new macro %_build_ncpus committed and new package version available with it ? if yes I have to change the waf package if you didn't
21:17:51 <pterjan> not yet
21:18:05 * pterjan quite busy :/
21:18:31 <philippem> ok just ping me then to update waf please
21:18:36 <ennael> ok can we sum up that discussion ?
21:18:47 <pterjan> philippem: ok, I'll try to do it tonight
21:19:07 <pterjan> so
21:19:27 <pterjan> boklm will list the packages with changes in svn
21:19:54 <pterjan> someone that people fear will announce that broken packages will not be in the release
21:20:27 <pterjan> then we bump all releases in svn after the freeze and submit them
21:20:46 <ennael> I can announce it :)
21:20:49 <pterjan> and we get people to fix the ones which didn't build
21:22:42 <ennael> ok who will mail about beginning and end of rebuild
21:22:43 <ennael> ?
21:22:56 <pterjan> I can do
21:23:06 <malo> who will monitor the progress of the build fixes?
21:23:23 <pterjan> I will, I like trachink build ! :P
21:23:37 <ennael> :)
21:23:40 <ennael> ok
21:24:26 <tmb> and we can keep the autobuilder going after, so it will show progress too :)
21:25:00 <pterjan> I really need to make it run without manual intervention, I hope I can find a few hours soon
21:25:25 * pterjan busy fighting with let agents trying to not lose too much money in the process
21:27:14 <malo> pterjan: I live in London as well. If you need hel
21:27:50 <boklm> hell or help ? :)
21:27:53 <pterjan> :)
21:28:08 <malo> p, I can help
21:28:11 <malo> :P
21:28:44 <malo> hell is upon us here already
21:28:58 <Luigi12_work> and pterjan's been through hell recently already too :o(
21:29:03 * Solbu live 30 minutesa away from Hell. ;-)=
21:29:42 <rindolf> Solbu: Hell, Michigan?
21:29:43 <tmb> Solbu: do you take vacation trips there ?
21:29:52 <pterjan> http://hellpizza.com/uk/store-info/330/clapham-greater-london/
21:29:54 <[mbot> [ Hell Pizza Clapham Store Information ]
21:29:58 <malo> ennael: sorry, please continue chairing before we start talking about football, pubs and the weather.
21:30:06 <pterjan> back to the topic, I think we are done :)
21:30:06 <rda> pterjan: re: a procedure to request a website. you can open a bug or discuss it directly here. what do you want/need?
21:30:08 <ennael> :)
21:30:20 <ennael> ok
21:30:23 <Solbu> «Hell» means «luck» in norway. And 30 minutes away there's a place called Hell.
21:30:55 <rda> oops
21:30:57 <ennael> next topic is already done as it was about build errors
21:31:12 <ennael> #topic FOSDEM 2013
21:31:17 <ennael> it's ,early about beer :)
21:31:21 <ennael> nearly
21:31:43 <ennael> as a reminder https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Fosdem_2013
21:31:57 <ennael> please register if you want to attend diner we need to book a restaurant
21:33:28 <ennael> ok they are all gone to eat pizza and drink beers :)
21:33:46 <ennael> so if youdon't have anything to add we can close this meeting
21:34:01 <Luigi12_work> I'd really like to get gnutls 3.1.6 submitted since it has minor security fixes, but it fails in make check, please help if you can https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/2013-January/021117.html
21:34:02 <[mbot> [ [Mageia-dev] gnutls build error (make check) ]
21:34:22 <ennael> ok thanks all for attending
21:34:26 <ennael> #endmeeting