19:08:24 <ennael> #startmeeting
19:08:24 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Wed Aug 22 19:08:24 2012 UTC.  The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:08:24 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:08:39 <ennael> hi there back to hell after summer break
19:09:08 <coling> Ha!
19:09:21 <ennael> #topic Coming Mageia 3 alpha 1 release
19:09:34 <ennael> and back to hell release
19:09:57 <ennael> so alpha1 is planned for 4th of september
19:10:10 <ennael> we are starting some tests to check how it goes
19:10:26 <ennael> still working on old build server until new one is up and running
19:10:26 <rindolf> Hi.
19:10:32 <coling> Cool. Is rpm behaving on rabbit still?
19:10:32 <rindolf> The /topic was not set.
19:10:47 <coling> rindolf, yes it was.
19:10:55 <rindolf> Oh, I see.
19:10:56 <rindolf> Lag.
19:11:02 <ennael> coling: it's all working nicely
19:11:06 <ennael> at least for bcd
19:11:13 <ennael> tmb has to give a try also
19:11:17 <ennael> tmb: don't hide :)
19:11:31 <coling> Phew. /me is still mostly blameless then :)
19:11:38 <ennael> :)
19:11:58 <ennael> so we should freeze local repository about 4 days before deadline
19:11:59 <tmb> coling: dont worry, we'll try to find something to blame on you during QA
19:12:04 <ennael> :)
19:12:12 <coling> Of that I have no doubt :)
19:12:39 <ennael> so please submit now packages you want to be tested during this first  dev release
19:13:18 <sebsebseb> hi
19:13:48 <ennael> we will upload 2 DVDs 32 and 64 bits, dual iso and one GNOME live + one KDE live
19:14:22 <ennael> after this release we will discuss about what isos we want for final release and try to take a decision :)
19:14:31 <sebsebseb> ok
19:15:07 <ennael> coling: while you are here, shall we expect some kind of mess for this first alpha ? :) (especially /usr move)
19:15:32 <coling> ennael, well, upgrades will likely not work too well yet until support is built into the installer.
19:15:47 <coling> ennael, but I don't think there will be any problems with fresh installs.
19:15:57 <ennael> ok so add a note about upgrade
19:15:59 <spturtle> there is no real upgrade path from mga2 right now, the procedure described by coling for cauldron uses is horrible
19:16:17 <guillomovitch> I sggest "I don't think there will be any problems" as next release codename
19:16:17 <tmb> nope, fresh installs seems to be ok atleast on my tests
19:16:42 <ennael> #info alpha 1 will not provide any way to upgrade from mga2 (to be added in errata/release notes)
19:16:45 <coling> spturtle, it's not that bad. Sure it requires two manual commands, but it's not insane. Still I will make it simpler.
19:17:56 <ennael> any other funny stuff we should expect ?
19:18:56 <coling> It wouldn't be funny if we expected it! ;)
19:19:03 <ennael> tsss
19:19:07 <ennael> tell this to MrsB
19:19:18 <coling> But more seriously, the only things I'm currently tracking would be network interface names.
19:19:18 <sebsebseb> sounds good no way to upgrade from Maegai 2,  will stop certian peple running it, that shodn't really, or could do that
19:19:23 * MrsB is watching :)
19:19:36 <ennael> coling: bug report on this ?
19:19:53 <coling> As the persistent net interface name generators were removed from udev. I need to follow up on this with Kay upstream as he apparently had plans to replace it with something better.
19:20:16 <coling> ennael, not specifically a BR that I remember - just on my "list"
19:20:16 <spturtle> coling: you mean interface renaming? I will try to revert the change tonight because I don't want to wait that long
19:20:59 <coling> spturtle, it should be easy to include the generators. I was half considering doing the same actually, so if you want to add them back to the systemd package as extra sources, I'm happy with that.
19:21:19 <tmb> I must say some changes happends the wrong way... nuking working setups for "plans to replace..."
19:21:36 <spturtle> coling: oh maybe we need to discuss after meeting a bit so we're talking about the same thing
19:21:47 <coling> tmb, I'm not sure where it's at to be honest. I've not poked him about it for a while, so there could be something else in place.
19:22:25 <coling> spturtle, basically the udev rules that generate /etc/udev/rules.d/nn-persistent-network-something.rules
19:22:29 * coling forgets the names
19:22:43 <spturtle> what I found and posted on ml is: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/commit?id=97595710b77aa162ca5e20da57d0a1ed7355eaad
19:22:44 <tmb> the same happend with glibc when rpc was dropped in favour of a not-working tirpc in 2.14 and got remerged in 2.16 as tirpc still is not working :)
19:23:25 <spturtle> my rules were already in place so I don't know about missing generators
19:23:41 <guillomovitch> this udev issue will sill only affect upgrades
19:23:51 <guillomovitch> not new install
19:24:09 <guillomovitch> mainly
19:24:17 <tmb> yeah,m its not a big deal for alpha1 anyway
19:24:38 <guillomovitch> so, enything else really serious ?
19:24:45 <coling> guillomovitch, yeah probably only those with existing 7-persistent-net.rules I guess?
19:24:48 <spturtle> yes a long as interface names are stable for those installs
19:24:48 <ennael> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia_3_alpha1
19:24:54 <ennael> here is the wiki page
19:25:17 <ennael> coling: can you add these points there ?
19:25:24 <coling> ennael, sure.
19:26:31 <ennael> just added upgrade one on errata
19:26:45 <coling> I guess the other issues woudl be some services still need fixing due to /var/run move.
19:27:13 <coling> I've been fixing some of those but I should really sit down and beast it at some point.
19:27:19 <guillomovitch> what means fixing here ?
19:27:37 <guillomovitch> should we really make those services use /run, rather thab /var/run ?
19:27:40 <coling> guillomovitch, adding a file to /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/ in the package inststead of shipping dirs inside /var/run/
19:27:49 <guillomovitch> ok, this kind of fix
19:28:00 <coling> guillomovitch, we may as well make them use /run while we're there.
19:28:23 * coling would also like to add several lint rules but thats another topic so I'll wait.
19:28:53 <ennael> ok
19:29:00 <ennael> any other point to be mentionned ?
19:29:19 <coling> I think I'm out.
19:29:31 <guillomovitch> you're still there ?
19:29:40 <coling> Sory
19:29:44 <coling> I meant "out of issues"
19:29:46 <coling> :)
19:30:10 <guillomovitch> so, next point ?
19:30:40 <ennael> ok
19:30:40 <spturtle> coling: I still have the dir in the package so it gets created at install time and is owned by that package
19:30:54 <ennael> #topic kernel support for Mageia 2
19:30:58 <ennael> tmb: your turn :)
19:31:02 <coling> spturtle, yeah but a reboot would nuke it.
19:31:15 <tmb> ok
19:31:58 <spturtle> coling: tmpfiles.d as well of course
19:32:13 <tmb> well, basically we will do a "new thing" on mga2, and that is to switch core kernel to 3.4 series kernels
19:32:51 <coling> tmb, due to LTS?
19:33:02 <coling> (kernel LTS I mean)
19:33:02 <guillomovitch> whereas release kernel was a 3.3 one
19:34:01 <tmb> this for a few reasons... it's a longterm kernel (upstream maintained for 2 years),  we already have some gpu stuff packported, for some the wlan has gotten better, there are some bigger fixes that would need backporting, and so on
19:34:27 <guillomovitch> and of course, no known regression :) ?
19:35:40 <coling> The only "issue" for me that started with the 3.4 series was that on my sound card the "Master" channel changed from a slider to a switch... still not worked out if that was a deliberate change or not. Is that when the HDA autoparser was enabled - /me is a little behind on that stuff
19:36:02 <coling> That said, it didn't really cause any significantly noticable issues for me (sound still works)
19:36:04 <sebsebseb> so the kernel will still be supported upstream, when Mageia 2 itself runs out of support, it seems
19:36:12 <sebsebseb> 18 months release cycle I am thinking
19:37:14 <ennael> tmb: when does this should happen ?
19:37:29 <tmb> well, actually the change from 3.3 to 3.4 should not contain any big surprises, and went pretty smooth on cauldron ... and the fixes coming trough -stable tree is fixing stuff that some hit, so I think we should be ok
19:39:10 <tmb> As for the change, we will soon release the 3.3.8 thats been in QA, so sometime after that the first testkernels will land in testing, but we wont rush it
19:39:29 <ennael> ok
19:39:42 <ennael> question? comment?
19:40:58 <coling> Sounds fine to me. I can test it on a few machines.
19:41:34 <ennael> ok
19:41:52 <ennael> #topic mentoring
19:42:08 <ennael> we need to get back in line with mentoring process
19:42:23 <ennael> I will check on my side if we have pending demands for mentore
19:42:26 <ennael> mentors
19:42:56 <ennael> among these one we have to solve simplew case
19:43:01 <ennael> guillomovitch: your turn ?
19:43:01 * rindolf waves.
19:43:12 <guillomovitch> yes
19:43:38 <guillomovitch> does anyone ignores the issue with this guy ?
19:44:32 <guillomovitch> basically, he's been accused of being someone else (ze) who caused troubles in mandriva
19:44:48 <guillomovitch> and despite passing the mentoring process
19:44:53 <ennael> (and mageia)
19:45:27 <guillomovitch> his mentor request for its account to be validated was merely ignored
19:46:02 <guillomovitch> wich seems a wrong way to deal with this kind of issue
19:46:13 <coling> Well, shouldn't benefit of the doubt be given? If it turns out he follows the same path as Ze then we take the same action?
19:46:20 <guillomovitch> absolutly
19:46:49 <guillomovitch> let's judge people on what they do, not on what they are suspected to want
19:47:18 <guillomovitch> so the proposal is to validate his account, as initially requested
19:47:40 <guillomovitch> recall him, as any other candidate, than we are working collectively
19:48:18 <guillomovitch> and take action if problem occurs
19:48:19 <guillomovitch> for real
19:48:41 <pterjan> "his mentor request for its account to be validated was merely ignored"
19:48:47 <coling> Well, having spoken to him a fair bit, it's clear he's learned a lot of the last few months (from late mga2 until now). I'm happy to judge by his actions.
19:48:51 <pterjan> were was the request, I can't find anything
19:48:56 <guillomovitch> on bugzilla
19:49:01 <guillomovitch> I can't remember the bug id
19:49:08 <rindolf> It wasn't merely ignored, people commented on it.
19:49:20 <guillomovitch> with a long and painful "you're XYZ", "I'm not", etc...
19:49:29 <guillomovitch> ok, my point was
19:49:30 <leuhmanu> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6493
19:49:43 <guillomovitch> his request was not formally refused
19:49:54 <guillomovitch> and closed
19:51:14 <coling> So as for the next steps?
19:51:20 <coling> His account should be approved?
19:51:50 <guillomovitch> probably
19:52:05 <guillomovitch> what happens with people terminating this mentoring process usually ?
19:52:27 <pterjan> mentor requests for the account to be updated
19:52:57 <guillomovitch> are they left free to work on what they want, or integrated someway in teams ?
19:53:31 <pterjan> they should get transferred owmership of packages they imported
19:53:46 <leuhmanu> the request is not a packager access but a commiter
19:54:03 <pterjan> ah yes
19:54:11 <guillomovitch> i must confess I don't know the subtile difference
19:54:24 <coling> commit vs. submit I guess.
19:54:27 <pterjan> yes
19:54:28 <leuhmanu> yes
19:54:28 <guillomovitch> ok
19:54:32 <leuhmanu> for padawan
19:55:04 <guillomovitch> so he was not even allowed to commit ? Oh...
19:55:11 <rindolf> guillomovitch: yes, he was not.
19:55:41 <leuhmanu> bumbleble is his work iirc
19:56:05 <guillomovitch> ok, so there is even less danger to just get him a commit bit
19:56:23 <guillomovitch> we're supposed to have peer reviewing, right ?
19:56:51 <guillomovitch> aka 'titi is reading your commit messages'
19:57:15 <guillomovitch> rindolf: you're still ok to mentor this guy ?
19:57:59 <guillomovitch> including spanking him violently if needed ?
19:59:11 <guillomovitch> everyone's sleeping ?
19:59:19 <pterjan> yes
19:59:36 <ennael> bumblebee is not a nice package to be imported in mageia...
19:59:47 <leuhmanu> why not ?
20:00:09 <leuhmanu> see the request of users
20:00:23 <ennael> requests of users are not always good
20:00:43 <ennael> looks like it's very hackish one and it may all break through upgrades
20:00:44 <guillomovitch> well, a bad application is bad, even if really desired
20:00:44 <rindolf> guillomovitch: yes, I am.
20:00:59 <ennael> also it seems kernel support is on the way
20:01:18 <leuhmanu> I guess these users know what their are ding
20:01:20 <leuhmanu> doing
20:01:34 <guillomovitch> users ? knowing ?
20:01:36 <guillomovitch> ooops
20:01:37 <ennael> users always know what they are doing
20:01:38 <guillomovitch> anyway
20:01:47 <ennael> until they come here
20:01:51 <guillomovitch> at worst, it will break
20:01:54 <leuhmanu> so forget my exemple
20:02:13 <guillomovitch> and it's another issue
20:02:16 <guillomovitch> so, we have a mentor
20:02:32 <guillomovitch> we don't have any formal opposition for this guy to came back with commit bit ?
20:03:00 <ennael> as I said it needs to be followed
20:03:41 <ennael> I will not manage a second Ze on my side, first one was too painfull
20:04:09 <leuhmanu> why not only remove svn access this time if not ?
20:04:22 <MrsB> Speaking in general though, we still see alot of 'in mandriva this' and 'in mandriva that' which is natural I suppose but in general we should try to move away from it imho and try to think more along the lines of 'in mageia this' and 'in mageia that'.
20:04:25 <rindolf> leuhmanu: he doesn't have svn access to begin with.
20:04:37 <guillomovitch> and if someone is harmful
20:04:43 <guillomovitch> rather ban him completly
20:05:19 <ennael> leuhmanu: Ze was removed last time
20:05:30 <leuhmanu> completly no ?
20:05:40 <ennael> MrsB: and fyi it was in mageia not mandriva
20:05:50 <ennael> he was banned
20:05:59 <ennael> from ML and svn
20:06:16 <guillomovitch> sure
20:06:36 <guillomovitch> if this new identityy has the same behaviour
20:06:41 <guillomovitch> we'ell have the same again
20:06:56 <guillomovitch> wether it's the same guy or not
20:07:13 * coling nods
20:07:14 <ennael> ok is that all for this topic ?
20:07:22 <guillomovitch> for me yes
20:07:32 <guillomovitch> rindolf: I'l let you contact him
20:07:54 <rindolf> guillomovitch: and tell him what?
20:08:01 <guillomovitch> pterjan: can you check its account
20:08:18 <pterjan> (trying)
20:08:24 <guillomovitch> and validate its commit perms
20:08:49 <pterjan> (trying to find my password /o\)
20:08:56 <guillomovitch> rindolf: than its original request (commiter account) has finally been accepted, and than he can undergo mentoring process again ?
20:09:19 <rindolf> guillomovitch: OK, so he'll have a commit bit?
20:09:29 <rindolf> guillomovitch: simplew I mean.
20:09:34 <guillomovitch> yep
20:09:43 <rindolf> guillomovitch: OK, I'll tell him that.
20:09:48 <coling> :)
20:09:51 <guillomovitch> you can also point him to the meeting notes
20:09:56 <rindolf> guillomovitch: OK.
20:10:03 <linuxguy101> there is a break at the magea site for the dual arc 64 bit cdrom download
20:10:15 <linuxguy101> says failed to switch directories
20:10:17 <guillomovitch> that could be instructive for him to see he'll under close scrutiny
20:10:23 <linuxguy101> might want to pass that along to whoever
20:10:50 <pterjan> List of users promoted :
20:10:50 <pterjan> simplew
20:10:52 <guillomovitch> and that he should be careful not to oblivate anyone for some time :)
20:11:02 <rindolf> guillomovitch: OK.
20:11:08 <guillomovitch> ok, I'm out too
20:11:21 <ennael> ok
20:11:24 <guillomovitch> out and hungry
20:11:32 <ennael> any other topic ? question ? comment ?
20:11:41 <coling> Not that I can think off for now.
20:11:45 <ennael> (carefull if you ask anything, guillomovitch will kill you)
20:11:56 <tmb> (or eat...)
20:12:11 <ennael> :)
20:12:16 <ennael> ok thanks for attending
20:12:24 <ennael> #endmeeting