19:13:52 <ennael> #startmeeting 19:13:52 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Wed Apr 4 19:13:52 2012 UTC. The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:13:52 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:13:52 <erzulie> [ MeetBot - Debian Wiki ] 19:14:09 <ennael> #topic packagers team vote 19:14:14 <ennael> #chair guillomovitch 19:14:14 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: ennael guillomovitch 19:14:23 <ennael> I just add quickly this topic 19:14:36 <guillomovitch> meaning i can issue #commands too ? 19:14:40 <ennael> we were supposed to organize vote before end of march 19:14:43 <ennael> guillomovitch: yep 19:14:54 <guillomovitch> #rm -rf /var 19:14:57 <ennael> :) 19:15:18 <ennael> so officially 3 candidates 19:15:26 <ennael> guillomovitch, boklm, ennael 19:15:31 <pterjan> I vote empty 19:15:35 <ennael> :) 19:15:45 <ennael> who shall we proceed ? 19:15:46 <AL13N> ennael: i thought boklm was for sysadmin team leader 19:15:47 <obgr_seneca> pterjan: not on the list 19:15:54 <anaselli> should we vote here? 19:15:54 <ennael> formal election ? 19:16:07 <ennael> shall we vote using epoll ? 19:16:15 <remmy> I vote for formal, though (s)he wasn't on the list either. 19:16:16 <ennael> anaselli: not here it will be a mess :) 19:16:23 <anaselli> feeew 19:16:30 <anaselli> i see 19:16:31 * ennael slaps remmy 19:16:56 <ennael> ok let say we will use epoll to make things official 19:17:10 <anaselli> agree 19:17:10 <ennael> vote will be opened tomorrow until this week 19:17:13 <coling> I think that's probably best. 19:17:14 <ennael> end 19:17:17 <AL13N> k 19:17:31 <coling> Keep in mind its a holiday weekend, so people may not be around. 19:17:37 <AL13N> true that 19:17:37 <coling> But probably still Ok. 19:17:45 <AL13N> is there a minimum percentage 19:18:06 <ennael> I propose to allow vote to all people having a ldap account 19:18:14 <ennael> meaning packagers and apprentice 19:18:18 <ennael> is that ok . 19:18:19 <ennael> ? 19:18:23 <guillomovitch> yes 19:18:24 <AL13N> in mga-committers group? 19:18:29 <ennael> yep 19:18:32 <AL13N> k 19:18:49 <ennael> #action packagers vote will be organized incoming week using epoll 19:18:51 <AL13N> is there a minimum percentage for it to be valid? 19:18:59 <AL13N> and there are 3 people to be voted, right? 19:19:13 <ennael> #info mga-committers group will be allowed to vote 19:19:21 <ennael> 3 sits 3 people 19:19:43 <boklm> mga-packagers-committers 19:19:43 <obgr_seneca> are there preferences who wants to do what? 19:19:45 <ennael> but maybe people do not want to have a girl or a plf guy as representative :) 19:19:52 <ennael> #undo 19:19:52 <Inigo_Montoya`> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x845580c> 19:19:56 <anaselli> so the point is not who but where :p 19:20:11 <ennael> #info mga-packagers-committers group will be allowed to vote 19:20:13 <coling> It's more to ensure we've gone through the proper motions. Same was true of the previous vote. 19:20:20 <ennael> yep 19:20:23 <AL13N> epoll, so someone post a link on -dev ML? 19:20:30 <ennael> I will do it 19:20:37 <ennael> let me breath first :) 19:20:41 <coling> :D 19:20:45 * AL13N gives a glass of water 19:20:56 <ennael> anything else to add on that topic ? 19:21:12 <anaselli> fine for me 19:21:24 <coling> nope 19:21:40 <Bertl> second that 19:21:47 <ennael> ok 19:22:00 <ennael> #topic Mageia 2 release planning and review 19:22:07 <ennael> so now a big topic 19:22:24 <ennael> We will focus on release_blocker bugs review 19:22:36 <ennael> and also a big question about Mageia 2 planning 19:23:00 <ennael> as said during council meeting on monday the question is shall we delay final release 19:23:10 <ennael> given the number of these bugs still opened 19:23:11 <guillomovitch> why ? 19:23:14 <Bertl> IMHO it's inevitable 19:23:14 <guillomovitch> k 19:23:28 <Luigi12_work> I dunno about the final release, but maybe the RC 19:23:29 <ennael> so we have coling tonight 19:23:39 <guillomovitch> the list wasn't reviewed for reclassification 19:23:42 <ennael> coling: can you give us a status about systemd tracker ? 19:23:47 <obgr_seneca> ennael: if we do, does that mean postponing rc as well? 19:23:49 <pterjan> it depends on the weather, maybe people will spend easter week-end fixing bugs 19:23:52 <ennael> obgr_seneca: yep 19:24:07 <Luigi12_work> I'd like to fix some things this weekend I would have fixed during the outage 19:24:27 <coling> ennael, most of the major problems on the systemd tracker are solved IMO 19:24:32 <Bertl> I'll definitely do some extensive testing once the RC is out 19:24:41 <ennael> please one at a time 19:24:41 <coling> Several of them relate to drakx integration 19:25:00 <guillomovitch> well, who is working on drakx nowadays, excepted tv ? 19:25:02 <ennael> thierry told me he had no time to migrate drakxservices 19:25:02 <coling> I've not personally really looked into that issue much myself. 19:25:15 <ennael> for now at least 19:25:19 <coling> OK, that's sad :( 19:25:26 <ennael> guillomovitch: I would say perl developper ? 19:25:27 <coling> I thought he an dmorgan had a couple patches for it. 19:25:43 <ennael> so maybe guillomovitch or pterjan :)) 19:25:53 * pterjan is not a perl developer 19:26:07 <guillomovitch> I'm not very found of mandrake-style perl 19:26:15 <pterjan> hmm I sent a patch for drakx 15 minutes ago to the ML :( 19:26:20 <coling> I personally plan to look at installer related LVM and general encrypted LVM stuff over the weekend (fri-mon) 19:26:23 <anaselli> guillomovitch: you can rewrite all :P 19:26:25 <ennael> pterjan: you did 19:26:45 <guillomovitch> anaselli: not now, and not if that means losing tv as a developer for the exact opposite reason :) 19:26:58 <coling> And a couple remaining dracut niggles. After that I'll be mostly happy for RC. 19:27:00 <pterjan> well my main problem is that I don't have any cauldron machine 19:27:02 <anaselli> guillomovitch: i see :D 19:27:13 <coling> But I think Monday is a probably a little optimistic. 19:27:16 <pterjan> (and for the current topic, never used systemd or looked at it) 19:27:20 * mitya is proud to put one of the nastiest blockers on his trophy list (#4523 - broken extension loading in GNOME Shell) 19:27:32 <guillomovitch> I'm eventually OK for small fixes, not really for large changes as 'systemd integration' 19:27:33 <ennael> please one at a time ! 19:27:46 <guillomovitch> right 19:27:46 <ennael> the next one will fix drakxservices ! 19:27:48 <ennael> :) 19:28:01 <anaselli> coling: i could try to help on Saturday, but i'm going out this weekend 19:28:02 * guillomovitch looks for IRC mute command 19:28:07 <rindolf> I am versed in Perl. 19:28:08 <remmy> mitya: It's a trophy once you fix it :) 19:28:11 <ennael> stop please ! 19:28:22 <guillomovitch> coling: excepted drakxtools integration issues ? 19:28:38 <ennael> so coling as you are the main one in bugzilla 19:28:46 <ennael> how much time would you need ? 19:28:46 <guillomovitch> are they other low-level issues with systemd ? 19:28:50 <ennael> (systemd + dracut 19:29:02 <coling> guillomovitch, to be honest, I've used very little of draxtools for service management, so not really sure how much time would be needed to convert. 19:29:21 <coling> ennael, regarding remaining systemd+dracut issues, I'm hoping to get them all kicked into touch this weekend. 19:29:31 <anaselli> coling: but mandriva should have it already or am i wrong? 19:29:38 <coling> I won't have any time Saturday, but Fri+Sun+Mond should be OK. 19:29:49 <guillomovitch> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2120 19:29:51 <erzulie> [ Bug 2120 - [Tracker] Implement systemd in Mageia 2 - specifications ] 19:29:55 <coling> So I'm hoping the remaining niggles should be OK. 19:30:06 <ennael> ok 19:30:20 <coling> guillomovitch, I probably should close some more of the open bugs: several are really "draxservices" dupes I reckon. 19:30:27 <ennael> okokso whatever happens RC is too early 19:30:30 <coling> (tho' as stated, I've somewhat ignored that issue) 19:30:55 <AL13N> ennael: is it possible to have RC on time, but have an RC2? 19:30:56 <Bertl> ennael: why not RC1, RC2 ? 19:31:15 <coling> Personally, I'd be happy with beta3 and a single RC. 19:31:18 <AL13N> or Beta 4 and RC 19:31:22 <coling> (if we go that route) 19:31:23 <obgr_seneca> coling: +1 19:31:35 <Bertl> fine for me 19:31:37 <coling> RC should be RC really... planning for two isn't really good :) 19:31:41 <coling> brb 19:31:43 <coling> 2mins 19:31:50 <sander85> do we have livecd finally? w/o livecd RC is impossible IMHO 19:32:01 <ennael> we need about 4 or 5 days to finalize isos + tests 19:32:34 <ennael> we should have as many bugs fixed as possible for beta 3 19:32:54 <obgr_seneca> if we add another pre release that means at least one month of delay, won't it? 19:32:55 <ennael> what about having beta 3 for 14/04 19:33:06 <remmy> In favour 19:33:09 <ennael> obgr_seneca: could be 1 or 2 weeks 19:33:26 <pterjan> ennael: Friday 13 ? 19:33:36 <AL13N> if we have beta3, are we getting RC for 1/05 and final at 21/05 ? 19:33:36 <ennael> hum 19:33:44 <ennael> pterjan: no way :) 19:33:49 <sander85> why not? :) 19:33:54 <ennael> servers could be down because oif this date :) 19:33:56 <Bertl> sounds good! 19:34:03 <AL13N> friday 13th has always been a lucky day 19:34:09 <remmy> I got my drivers license on friday the 13th. Not sure if that's a bad or a good example. 19:34:11 <coling> Sounds good to me. 19:34:12 <Bertl> yep, agreed! 19:34:24 <coling> obgr_seneca, I hope you like your pizza crispy... :s 19:34:24 <ennael> ok so let say 14/04 19:34:39 <Bertl> bah :/ 19:34:40 <obgr_seneca> coling: if you can get it through the wifi? 19:35:12 <ennael> then RC on 02/O5 19:35:13 <AL13N> ennael: are we planning on extra 3 weeks for release or 1 months for release? 19:35:21 <ennael> and final release 10 days later ? 19:35:38 <AL13N> isn't that too close? 19:35:44 <rindolf> ennael: OK. 19:35:46 <Bertl> I think a lot of folks will not test before an RC 19:35:53 <ennael> saturday is not a good day 19:36:02 <ennael> let say 15/05 19:36:14 <pterjan> AL13N: well RC is supposed to be final quality :) 19:36:18 <ennael> yep 19:36:24 <sander85> maybe lets set the target in another way.. counting down release blockers? :P 19:36:24 <AL13N> supposed 19:36:31 <remmy> Yeah, should be with just a different splash screen 19:36:36 <ennael> beta 4 14/04 19:36:40 <AL13N> we need to communicate the change, so we will need a final data 19:36:42 <AL13N> *date 19:36:42 <pterjan> AL13N: else it's not an rc and we'll have to postpone it... 19:36:44 <ennael> RC 02/05 19:36:49 <ennael> final 15/05 19:37:00 <ennael> wdyt ? 19:37:05 <Bertl> yes, what I mean is, there might be quite a number of bug reports after RC, despite all testing 19:37:06 <AL13N> i would take final a week later, but i can agree with this 19:37:06 <Luigi12_work> sounds reasonable 19:37:10 <rindolf> ennael: fine with me. 19:37:14 <remmy> fine with me 19:37:16 <obgr_seneca> it's beta3 not 4, but otherwise it's ok 19:37:17 <sander85> seems like we may need to delay it again then 19:37:21 <AL13N> after RC we might get alot more bugs 19:37:37 <sander85> yeah, RC will get a lot more users 19:37:42 <sander85> if we also get livecds 19:37:44 <remmy> and yes, we do need live cd's no later than rc, preferably b3 19:37:49 <ennael> AL13N: not release blocker one 19:37:54 <AL13N> ennael: you hope 19:38:00 <AL13N> ennael: if RC has new media 19:38:04 <AL13N> it can be installer bugs 19:38:05 <AL13N> so 19:38:11 <ennael> AL13N: let's plan it for next year 19:38:14 <ennael> more secure 19:38:17 <AL13N> true 19:38:17 <pterjan> RC should not have new media 19:38:21 <coling> How about we pull beta & RC forward a week? 19:38:30 <ennael> ? 19:38:32 <AL13N> pterjan: live media and dual arch 19:38:39 <ennael> one at a time 19:38:46 <coling> That leaves more room between RC & final. 19:38:52 <pterjan> AL13N: I hope they are available for beta4... 19:38:59 <Luigi12_work> coling: that could work too 19:39:05 <ennael> coling: so what would be the date ? 19:39:06 <AL13N> pterjan: ok 19:39:26 <AL13N> i think we need an extra beta for installer tests definately on the new media 19:39:34 * coling has no calendar and pizza on his hands..... -7 days on each.... :p 19:39:36 <AL13N> livemedia being the most important one 19:39:45 <ennael> AL13N: please... 19:39:53 <ennael> coling: one week more until beta 3 ? 19:39:54 <coling> erm 19:40:01 <coling> sorry I'm not thinking. 19:40:28 <coling> Actually the beta and RC times sound about right. Sorry :s 19:40:37 <ennael> :) 19:40:51 * coling was forgetting todays date 19:40:59 <anaselli> coling: it was the pizza :p 19:41:08 <ennael> any other comment on that new planning ? 19:41:12 <ennael> speak now or never :) 19:41:14 <Bertl> so beta3 on Friday 13th? 19:41:16 <guillomovitch> do we have some reason to expect 19:41:19 <AL13N> well, if everything thinks 15/05 is good, i'll drop my objection 19:41:20 <anaselli> well.... 19:41:22 <anaselli> no 19:41:28 <ennael> guillomovitch: ? 19:41:40 <guillomovitch> than delaying a full week will ensure enough additional bugs to be fixed ? 19:41:50 * pterjan will not be available from beta4 to rc /o\ 19:42:03 <ennael> pterjan: you will be burnt 19:42:07 <coling> guillomovitch, not just a full week... a week + extra beta + two more weeks 19:42:08 <AL13N> guillomovitch: there's no sureness, but think about how long it takes before bugs are gathered 19:42:21 <Bertl> okay, beta4, beta3, what are the suggested dates now? 19:42:39 <ennael> well remaining bugs to be fixed are mainly systemd, dracut and live cds 19:42:48 <Bertl> gnome as well 19:42:51 <ennael> really blocking one 19:43:05 <ennael> the only unsure item is about live cds 19:43:10 <sander85> do we have new theme too or not? 19:43:18 <guillomovitch> so basically we need to align the plan on coling free week-ends 19:43:19 <ennael> I'm waiting for information from tmb 19:43:30 <guillomovitch> for this kind of issues 19:43:37 <AL13N> guillomovitch: :) 19:43:38 <ennael> guillomovitch: and buy hundreds of pizzas 19:43:57 <coling> guillomovitch, I'm hoping most of the big issues will be nuked this weekend like I say, but I can't say for certainty. 19:44:13 <coling> (asside from the drakx stuff anyway) 19:44:20 <guillomovitch> yes 19:44:21 <sander85> i'm quite sure livecd-s will cause us some nice amount of bugs :) 19:44:52 <obgr_seneca> then let's plan for 2015 or 16? 19:44:58 <AL13N> ok, so beta4 14/04; rc 02/05; final 15/05 19:45:01 <AL13N> agreed? 19:45:04 <obgr_seneca> why keep saying we are getting loads of bugs? 19:45:04 <ennael> beta3 19:45:30 * anaselli had no time to go on working on livecd tools sorry 19:45:42 <ennael> #action new planning for release: beta3 14/04; rc 02/05; final 15/05 19:45:53 <coling> Phew! 19:45:54 <coling> :) 19:45:57 <ennael> :) 19:46:02 <Bertl> so be it! 19:46:24 <AL13N> if there get more release_blockers, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it 19:46:27 <sander85> final on 15/05 if livecds make it for beta3 :P 19:46:30 <ennael> #action ennael will try to reach tmb about live cds 19:46:31 <AL13N> next topic? 19:46:40 <obgr_seneca> ennael: shall I sit together with trish and announce it on the blog? 19:46:49 <ennael> yes please 19:46:50 <obgr_seneca> or do you want to? 19:47:02 <pterjan> obgr_seneca: you can also use email or irc if you prefer :) 19:47:04 <ennael> #action obgr_seneca will work on blog announcement for this new planning 19:47:05 <guillomovitch> trish ? 19:47:21 <sebsebseb> oh just looking at stuff here, ok so the final release is being delayed as well 19:47:36 <ennael> sebsebseb: please read logs 19:47:40 <obgr_seneca> guillomovitch: marcom team lead and english native speaker 19:47:42 <sebsebseb> ennael: yep I will :) 19:48:08 <ennael> so now we have to focus on bug list and cleaning repositories 19:48:17 <ennael> we still have missing deps in list to clean 19:48:29 <sander85> what about new release freeze? 19:48:40 <sander85> when this will happen? 19:48:42 <pterjan> after beta4 ? 19:48:51 <ennael> beta 3 :) 19:48:52 <guillomovitch> ennael: some of them are not fixable 19:48:59 <ennael> guillomovitch: ? 19:49:02 <guillomovitch> the two perl packages, for instance 19:49:19 <pterjan> guillomovitch: then they need to be removed / obsoleted 19:49:30 <pterjan> no point in having non installable packages 19:49:36 <guillomovitch> obsoleted is quite definitive 19:49:44 <ennael> #action new release freeze is planned for 23/04 19:50:00 <guillomovitch> ocsinventory can be obsoleted, tough :) 19:50:06 <pterjan> guillomovitch: we can obsolete with a version-release 19:50:41 <pterjan> or at least remove them from the repository if they can stay on user machines 19:50:42 <guillomovitch> well, I'd rather move them out of mirrors manually 19:50:46 <guillomovitch> yes 19:51:06 <guillomovitch> rather than abuse obsoletes tag just for their side effect in our upload procedure 19:51:20 <guillomovitch> I'll fix roundcubemail 19:51:44 <pterjan> well it's also a matter of cleaning user machine when needed 19:51:53 <pterjan> i don't know the situation for those packages 19:52:13 * blingme notes is is here lurking, and caught up with backlog since meeting start 19:52:22 <ennael> :) 19:52:50 <guillomovitch> rindolf: you have one of your package in the list 19:52:50 <AL13N> well, whatever the resolution, we can resolve them sort of 19:52:55 <ennael> also please guys have a look on security updates tracker 19:52:57 <rindolf> guillomovitch: which one? 19:53:02 <guillomovitch> rear 19:53:12 <guillomovitch> http://check.mageia.org/cauldron/dependencies.html 19:53:12 <erzulie> [ dependencies global report ] 19:53:50 <guillomovitch> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5046 19:53:51 <erzulie> [ Bug 5046 - [Tracker] Security updates for Mageia 2 ] 19:53:57 <guillomovitch> this is the security tracker bug 19:54:01 <coling> guillomovitch, (aside, can I speak to you later re-apache) 19:54:17 <Luigi12_work> me too 19:54:32 <pterjan> me too then 19:54:39 <ennael> :) 19:54:43 <guillomovitch> coling: of course 19:55:05 <ennael> ok I will try to mail about release blocker bugs tomorrow 19:55:07 <ennael> (I promise) 19:55:15 <rindolf> guillomovitch: I see. 19:55:19 <ennael> proposal for the one that are really blocker 19:55:54 * doktor5000__ disturbs and excuses for not being here earlier, sorry no time until now 19:56:08 <ennael> anything else to add on this ? 19:56:16 <guillomovitch> well 19:56:31 <guillomovitch> some of the blocker bugs 19:56:45 <guillomovitch> are as much political issues than technical ones 19:56:52 <ennael> yep 19:57:03 <guillomovitch> I just found out the infamous sun java removal one 19:57:09 <ennael> :) 19:57:23 <guillomovitch> and I remember the gnome-task-suggest-everything other one 19:58:01 <ennael> could you write 2 mails about it giving facts and proposals 19:58:03 <pterjan> we can dedicate meetings to those /o\ 19:58:20 <ennael> then we will take decision and stop speaking :) 19:58:24 <guillomovitch> yes 19:58:31 <ennael> thanks 19:58:56 <ennael> #action guillomovitch will mail about java and task-gnome so that we can take final decision and stop discussion 19:59:11 <ennael> (we need new guns and other management tools) 19:59:28 <obgr_seneca> matches? 19:59:34 <ennael> also :) 20:00:11 <guillomovitch> pizzas for coling, and clubs for release manager 20:00:31 * coling is finished with pizza. On to strawberries now. 20:00:43 <ennael> pizza with strawberries ? 20:00:55 <rindolf> ennael: Strawberries after Pizza. 20:00:56 <guillomovitch> 5 fruits and vegetables a day 20:00:57 <coling> Hmm, interesting idea, but no... very much separate. 20:00:58 <ennael> ok other topic ? 20:01:08 <rindolf> ennael: yes. 20:01:42 <ennael> I mean this was the last topic is there another one we should add ? 20:02:03 <AL13N> not that i can think of anything 20:02:23 * Luigi12_work reminds ennael to ask tmb about lm_sensors when she gets a chance 20:02:44 <ennael> yep 20:02:45 <Bertl> I'd like to bring up the issue of maintainer - bug-reporter -interaction 20:02:46 <rindolf> ennael: well, I have a small issue about the artwork/doc/i18n teams not telling me what they need from us packagers. 20:03:08 <rindolf> If they do need anything. 20:03:13 <doktor5000> i've got an issue with me-tv, not rebuild nor updated in cauldron, and no possibility to test on physical hardware, could somebody help me with that one? 20:03:30 <Bertl> doktor5000: what hardware is required? 20:03:31 <rindolf> doktor5000: what is me-tv? 20:03:32 <ennael> doktor5000: you can post on -dev :) 20:03:36 <Luigi12_work> doktor5000: what is me-tv? 20:03:43 <ennael> Bertl: can you explain your point ? 20:04:12 <Bertl> well, I certainly can work with unfriendly folks, and I completely understand that maintainers are not happy about bug reports 20:04:12 <doktor5000> ennael: if there will be as much answers as for iceape nothing will happen, i fear, but will do, yes :/ 20:04:14 <obgr_seneca> rindolf: If i18n needs things, I usually tell :D 20:04:30 <ennael> again 20:04:33 <ennael> one at a time 20:04:37 <rindolf> obgr_seneca: OK, then let me know if you do. 20:04:45 <ennael> meeting is not finished 20:04:51 <ennael> Bertl: your turn 20:04:55 <doktor5000> Bertl: you have some examples? 20:05:08 <Bertl> ennael: but I think that despite the really impressive work folks like marja do, there should be a better handling 20:05:30 <ennael> can you be more precise please 20:05:30 <Bertl> sure, give me a second to find some ... 20:05:35 <grenoya> rindolf: for doc team, kamil did the job and if necessary, i can help 20:05:46 <guillomovitch> Bertl: handling relational issues is quite difficult... 20:05:49 <rindolf> grenoya: OK, thanks. 20:07:17 <Bertl> yes, I agree, but there should be some kind of regulation how to handle bug reports 20:07:23 <guillomovitch> well 20:07:32 <guillomovitch> we eventually do 20:07:34 <guillomovitch> when needed 20:07:52 <obgr_seneca> Bertl: I don't really understand what the problem is 20:07:57 * AL13N neither 20:08:10 <Bertl> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3091 20:08:11 <erzulie> [ Bug 3091 - Install on GPT partitioned disk ends up unbootable ] 20:08:20 <AL13N> bugsquad people can make mistakes, it's nothing bad... 20:08:58 <guillomovitch> that not bugsquad here, I think 20:09:00 <Bertl> that's not the problem, I think that many maintainers do not take the time to actually read a bug report and/or try whatever is reported there (which is fine in many cases) 20:09:13 <pterjan> In this case I did read all of it 20:09:25 <pterjan> which is why his comment upset me and I gave up 20:09:49 <Bertl> well, that's fine too, everybody can be upset about anything 20:10:03 <Bertl> the thing is, this _is_ a real bug, and it gets ignored 20:10:05 <pterjan> My original comment was mostly correcting many wrong comments 20:10:38 <Bertl> what do you thing, would you file another bug report after this one? 20:10:45 <Bertl> *think 20:10:47 <obgr_seneca> Let's face the truth, if someone told me this in a bug report my reaction would have been mirroring pterjan's 20:11:10 <Luigi12_work> this sounds like something to discuss outside of the meeting... 20:11:21 <guillomovitch> and quite specific also 20:11:28 <Bertl> yes, I do not want to make it about this bug report 20:11:33 <Bertl> it was just an example 20:11:41 <guillomovitch> well 20:11:47 <Bertl> what I think is, we should encourage bug reports 20:11:50 <ennael> well one example but what about others ? 20:11:52 <guillomovitch> how many bug did you reports ? 20:11:59 <guillomovitch> and how many time were you rebuffed ? 20:12:30 <Bertl> I did report about 50-60 bugs, and in average it took 3 rounds to make the problem understood 20:12:39 <obgr_seneca> after telling the maintainer he was too stupid to handle it? 20:12:42 <ennael> and so ? 20:12:56 <guillomovitch> so this one is rather the exception than the rule, no ? 20:13:01 <AL13N> tbh, we are people, international even, it's normal for communication to go wrong 20:13:17 <pterjan> Bertl: well this bug was originally assigned to me because I wrote the current gpt support, but I can't really test it as I don't have any machine supproting it (and never had), I tried to help by correcting the wrong things that were being discussed after spending some time reading it all 20:13:34 <pterjan> Bertl: I felt that my time had been wasted and my opinion was not wanted. 20:13:55 <Bertl> pterjan: so you don't have a machine capable of running qemu? 20:13:59 <bkor> mitya: nice! 20:14:29 <pterjan> Bertl: hmm last time I checked (2 years ago) it could not boot gpt 20:14:35 <guillomovitch> guys, should we rather finish *this* bug discussion here ? 20:14:37 <pterjan> Bertl: if it does now, yes I can try 20:14:48 <guillomovitch> s/rather/really/ 20:14:55 <Bertl> pterjan: Comment 7 is an example with all qemu data 20:14:58 <pterjan> yes this should not be part of the meeting 20:15:27 <guillomovitch> can both parties involved agreed there was some mutual inconprehension 20:15:40 <guillomovitch> and agree to continue discussing elsewhere 20:15:43 <Bertl> no problem 20:16:01 <ennael> thanks for that, you have all time after meeting 20:16:07 <ennael> can we close it now ? 20:16:26 <rindolf> ennael: OK by me. 20:16:40 <Bertl> well, my point still stands, we should try to encourage bug reports in general 20:16:52 <obgr_seneca> Bertl: we do 20:17:01 <guillomovitch> that was also my impression 20:17:03 <obgr_seneca> do yopu by any chance read in the forums? 20:17:12 <ennael> ok I end meeting and you can go on speaking 20:17:15 <ennael> #endmeeting