19:23:43 <ennael> #startmeeting
19:23:43 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Wed Jun 29 19:23:43 2011 UTC.  The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:23:43 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:23:43 <erzulie> [ MeetBot - Debian Wiki ]
19:23:50 <ennael> #chair misc
19:23:50 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: ennael misc
19:23:56 <ennael> misc will join soon
19:24:34 <AL13N> ennael: (20:44:40) misc: sorry I need to go, I may be late for the meeting, but I gave my part to ennael ( but she may be busy too )
19:24:36 <ennael> I'd like to add 2 quick topics about mentoring and QA
19:25:10 <ennael> so let start
19:25:15 <Kharec> :)
19:25:17 <AL13N> k
19:25:34 <andre999> ok - I have a proposal basically ready on piratepad :)
19:25:52 <ennael> #topic summary of specs
19:26:36 <ennael> ok so first all our apologies we are a bit late in current discussions
19:26:44 <ennael> release cycle and specifications
19:27:06 <ennael> first one should be closed and published by the end of this week
19:27:22 <ennael> but we want to summarize the big discussion before
19:27:30 <ennael> so a bit more patience :)
19:27:54 <ennael> about technical specifications
19:28:10 <ennael> we listed them with misc and try to answer all of them
19:28:19 <ennael> we should publish this tomorrow
19:28:37 <ennael> the main goal was to give an answer to each of them
19:28:49 <ennael> not saying yes or no but asking sometimes more details
19:29:10 <ennael> proposing some discussion to have a global picture about one topic
19:29:27 <ennael> and also asking about resources and planning
19:29:50 <AL13N> ah yes, that is important
19:29:58 <ennael> we may have some of proposals that will be long term projects as it needs time, maybe more than one release
19:30:20 <spturtle> proposals not yet on the list?
19:30:35 <AL13N> i guess that may depend on which cycle we choose this time
19:30:40 <ennael> and we will also include artwork and marcom teams when they are implied
19:30:45 <ennael> yep
19:31:07 <ennael> but most of proposals will need technical discussions to take the right decision
19:31:15 <AL13N> k
19:31:30 <ennael> so basically wiki page will be completed by tomorrow
19:31:39 <ennael> we will post then on -dev about all this
19:31:43 <AL13N> k thx for all the hard work
19:31:58 <ennael> one other thing is about planning, managing specs
19:32:25 <ennael> we were thinking about having one bug report / proposal so that we can follow it and have targets
19:32:31 <ennael> wdyt ?
19:32:36 <AL13N> sounds good to me
19:32:44 <brianb_> does these proposals just relate to the packaging and bug teams is there any involvment of the development team?
19:32:57 <andre999> sounds good :)
19:33:00 <AL13N> perhaps if people come into problems doing the specs or are running out of time, they could ask for help?
19:33:27 <ennael> brianb_: it's packaging, dev, doc, marcom, ...
19:33:52 <AL13N> if it's ok, i could re-email all the peoples who wanted to be on -dev team... don't know if that would help
19:34:00 <brianb_> so is the dev tem active now?
19:34:15 <ennael> not launched really because of our todo list
19:34:44 <AL13N> if it's needed/wanted, i could maybe help bootstrap -dev team
19:35:00 <ennael> yep we need concrete targets to start with
19:35:16 <AL13N> i suppose the technical specs will be concrete targets?
19:35:41 <ennael> sure
19:35:58 <ennael> that's all part of the job to rewrite it and split it if needed
19:36:34 <AL13N> so, we should wait bootstrap -dev team until after specs are decided?
19:36:37 <AL13N> or before?
19:36:44 <ennael> wiki may also be used to describe a global project
19:36:55 <ennael> I would wait specs btw
19:36:58 <AL13N> k
19:37:12 <AL13N> ennael: is a bug always required for spec?
19:37:17 <ennael> yes
19:37:21 <AL13N> if so, we can put wiki link in url field
19:37:39 <AL13N> perhaps also have a tracker on those "bugs"
19:37:41 <AL13N> no?
19:37:55 <ennael> sure
19:37:56 <spturtle> yes a tracker bug for mga2 features
19:38:14 <ennael> well a feature can be developped in more than one release
19:38:38 <spturtle> then it will be split over multiple bugs
19:38:40 <AL13N> sure
19:38:48 <brianb_> what is the current satus in relation to number of bugs?
19:38:56 <AL13N> no, i would just call it a tracker for new features
19:39:03 <AL13N> for future releases
19:39:21 <AL13N> brianb_: i think that's next topic, no?
19:39:26 <ennael> brianb_: we will speak about this in QA topic
19:40:20 <AL13N> so, ok, sounds good
19:40:30 <ennael> ok so a bit frustrating but have to wait at least tomorrow :)
19:40:39 <ennael> but again nothing decided yet
19:40:48 <AL13N> ok
19:40:49 <ennael> unles it sounded really not reasonable
19:41:00 <brianb_> so the specs ae they set in concrete when they are published on the wiki or can they be subject to additions and changes?
19:41:18 <ennael> they can evolve because of many reasons
19:41:51 <AL13N> is there an rpm5 spec request?
19:41:56 <ennael> nope
19:42:01 <AL13N> good
19:42:13 <ennael> ok anything else on specs ?
19:42:24 <AL13N> nope
19:43:00 <ennael> still the process is not all defined we have to improve this together
19:43:15 <AL13N> or rather "discover"
19:43:21 <ennael> also
19:43:33 <ennael> ok let see second topic
19:43:53 <AL13N> k
19:43:54 <misc> (back)
19:43:59 <ennael> ahah
19:44:01 <ennael> just in time
19:44:09 <AL13N> :)
19:44:27 <ennael> #topic next step for arm
19:44:35 <ennael> so first quick word about it
19:44:49 <ennael> blog post was sent last week and for now media covering is quite noce
19:44:51 <ennael> nice
19:45:22 <ennael> now we have to go on and integrate arm in mageia properly
19:45:31 <ennael> misc met rtp last friday to speak about this
19:45:33 <ennael> misc: ?
19:45:33 <Umeaboy> How soon will the mips/el-package come out in Mageia?
19:45:43 <Umeaboy> I'm still waiting for it.
19:45:52 <Umeaboy> The Mandriva-instructions in Mageia doesn't work.
19:46:00 <Umeaboy> So that's why I'm asking.
19:46:14 <misc> Umeaboy: we are in a meeting now
19:46:17 <Umeaboy> OK.
19:46:21 <Umeaboy> Sorry.
19:46:40 <Umeaboy> I thought #mageia-meeting was the place to have meeting in.
19:46:48 <misc> so as ennael said, I went to paris to give the zarb.org pandaboard to be used for builder
19:46:52 <AL13N> (Umeaboy: for the council)
19:47:04 <misc> and while on it, we discussed of how to set it up, etc
19:47:17 <misc> I prepared a summary, for those interested, but didn't finished it
19:47:45 <spturtle> can it keep up with the x86 and x86-64 builder(s)?
19:48:08 <misc> there is nothing special in it, but the main point is that, in order to organize the work around it, we invite interested people to say this on the ml, and to come for a first meeting, to see how we split the work
19:48:25 <misc> meeting that was arbitrary decided to be on 7/7, around 15h, paris time
19:48:50 <misc> spturtle: likely not
19:49:13 <misc> spturtle: and so the first idea and proposal would be to not have everything in sync
19:49:28 <brianb_> how representive is the pandaboard in reltion to arm technology?
19:49:46 <misc> but we didn't laid out details, so far, that's still a discussion, so once I send the mail, people could discuss ad nauseaum :)
19:49:56 <misc> brianb_: i do not understand the question
19:49:56 <AL13N> :)
19:50:09 <AL13N> brianb_: it's a rpm builder, so it doesn't matter
19:51:31 <misc> the pandaboard is just a arm system on chip, ie, a cpu + various devices, everything on a regular board, with connectors ( usb, ethernet, etc )
19:52:32 <spturtle> but indeed each SoC and each board can be different, so testing hardware support may not be easy
19:53:14 <brianb_> so will other vendors versions may have different implementations of arm technology
19:53:42 <misc> spturtle: yes, as said on the blog post, we need to find a solution
19:54:15 <misc> brianb_: that's more complex, there is different instruction for arm ( arm v11, arm v7, arm v9, etc )
19:54:16 <brianb_> so for testing would need different hardware
19:54:30 <AL13N> brianb_: in regards to the rpm's it's supposed to build, the only thing that matters is that it has an arm cpu :-)
19:54:32 <misc> like we already do for xorg or for the kernel
19:55:14 <spturtle> brianb_: ARM port will likely only support cortex A8 devices which is a single architecture (armv11?)
19:55:40 <rtp> misc: armv11 and armv9 don't exist but arm11 and arm9 do :)
19:55:59 <spturtle> confusing naming it is
19:56:03 <misc> so if you have any questions, juste ask to rtp ( now I tricked him to appear :p )
19:56:14 <croutor> I'm just curious: what do we expect to run on ARM? All the OS?
19:56:18 <rtp> spturtle: current port is armv5tl so it's supporting more cpu than only cortex (which are armv7)
19:56:19 <andre999> :)
19:56:54 <misc> croutor: well, yes
19:56:59 <rtp> spturtle: that's why arm has decided to use cortex A* for their new naming. to avoid confusion :)
19:57:03 <misc> except maybe stuff like lilo or wine
19:57:10 <misc> and kvm
19:57:43 <brianb_> rtp do you have any links in relatio to arm?
19:58:25 <croutor> need to define what will be our minimal system requirements then, no?
19:58:32 <rtp> brianb_: iirc, wikipedia pages are not bad, so you may want to look at them to know about armv5/v7 / arm11/arm9/cortex/etc..
19:58:48 <croutor> cause embedded system can be far to small to run such distribution
19:59:10 <ennael> arm is also used on other devices now
19:59:17 <ennael> like plugs and netbook and tablets
19:59:42 <croutor> yeah but I don't think it's ARM7 :)
20:00:19 <brianb_> do they use concruent programing?
20:01:20 <croutor> I mean, maybe we need to define what should be supported and what shouldn't, in order to focus our efforts
20:01:44 <croutor> and to forget about too small HW for now
20:02:05 <AL13N> hmm
20:02:24 <AL13N> i would like mageia to run as a nas server on a qtap box
20:02:37 <ennael> brianb_: what do you mean ?
20:03:00 <brianb_> programes that run in parallel
20:03:02 <rtp> AL13N: warning: some qnap may be using sparc or ppc iirc
20:03:11 <croutor> ARM has multiprocess support
20:03:12 <spturtle> AL13N: qnap? Most such devices use mipsel chips
20:03:31 <brianb_> the programming language that the transputer used
20:04:06 <AL13N> spturtle: hmm, it did say arm though
20:04:17 <misc> so does anyone something to add on the topic ?
20:04:18 <rtp> spturtle: a lot of nas from qnap are using kirkwood arm socs
20:04:29 <misc> ( if not, we can close the meeting so people can discuss technical issues )
20:04:40 <AL13N> rtp: would it be able to run mageia on something like that?
20:04:58 <AL13N> errr, ok
20:05:04 <AL13N> next topic then?
20:05:22 <ennael> is Stormi around ?
20:05:29 <AL13N> or is this last topic? ennael mentioned 2 extra topics?
20:06:09 <spturtle> qa and mentoring
20:06:12 <ennael> or andre999 ? it's about mentoring
20:06:22 <andre999> ok I'm here )
20:06:25 <ennael> ok
20:06:26 <andre999> :)
20:06:34 <ennael> #topic mentoring review
20:06:44 <ennael> can you summarize what is going on ?
20:06:49 <ennael> what you need
20:06:57 <ennael> who we should kick ? :
20:06:58 <ennael> :)
20:07:23 <andre999> I have a proposal for mentoring program coordinator + team
20:08:04 <andre999> I have it on piratepad - should i post it here ?
20:08:29 <andre999> it is the result of all the input we got
20:09:18 <andre999> focus is on rewriting the packages_mentoring wiki page
20:09:44 <andre999> as a central point for mentoring coordination
20:10:07 <andre999> http://piratepad.net/ep/pad/view/ro.h$tSJ4Fcujq/latest
20:10:09 <erzulie> [ PiratePad: ro.h$tSJ4Fcujq / Latest text of pad egfQtPxx1E ]
20:10:29 <AL13N> andre999: what is the next step?
20:11:01 <andre999> next step - if it seems ok, rewrite the wiki page
20:11:20 <andre999> adding a section for would-be apprentices
20:11:44 <andre999> with brief overview + links to documentation
20:12:01 <zezinho> > if pseudo@mageia.org is automatically redirected, could drop email field
20:12:08 <zezinho> seems very good for me
20:12:13 <andre999> + a table where they can add their name
20:12:30 <andre999> that's another point
20:12:33 <zezinho> as an apprentice, I've had to find some @
20:13:05 <andre999> now I understand that only full packager's get email redirected from their pseudo
20:13:37 <andre999> if that applied to everyone with a Mageai account, it would facilitate communication
20:14:02 <andre999> and mean that we don't have to put email adresses everywhere
20:14:34 <andre999> any reactions ?
20:14:45 <andre999> questions ?
20:14:51 <AL13N> it seems to have been meant as an incentive for padawans to finish their things
20:14:52 <andre999> :)
20:15:46 <AL13N> andre999: well, do you have any ideas to solve the lack of mentors?
20:15:46 <brianb_> would the table just list the names?
20:15:50 <andre999> now documentation is very fragmented - so everything will be referenced from one page
20:16:13 <AL13N> andre999: is there also enough links for people to start packaging as well, even without mentors?
20:16:33 <croutor> it would be really great
20:16:44 <andre999> AL13N: we are already following mailing lists, will also follow irc + forums
20:17:04 <zezinho> AL13N: I have very easily found everything to start packaging
20:17:05 <andre999> to encourage those showing interest to become packagers
20:17:18 <andre999> or otherwise contribute
20:18:20 <andre999> AL13N: without mentors -- they could read documentation, set up required softwre, but really it is much bettor to have a mentor
20:18:21 <AL13N> well, someone asked me about it, and i had to look a bit to find some helpful starting links
20:18:22 <brianb_> so apprentics would need a mageai account then?
20:19:20 <brianb_> how does this match up people to mentors?
20:19:21 <andre999> AL13N: well page isn't set up yet - that is the next step
20:19:49 <andre999> brianb_: yet, they would need a Mageia account
20:20:25 <brianb_> so can that be included on the new page a means to sign up nd get a Mageia account
20:21:13 <andre999> brianb_: we will have a table where the names of would-be apprentices could be put - by themselves or team, for mentors to take
20:21:58 <andre999> or would-be apprentices could contact packagers directly - current lists will be enhanced + put in table form
20:22:15 <andre999> or mentors could be contacted on irc
20:22:44 <croutor> I suppose the dedicated IRC channe for support is a good idea
20:23:05 <brianb_> and would this tale show the current progress of those who have been assigned a mentor?
20:23:07 <croutor> I've asked so,e help on it yesterday, and anyone who have ti,e can answer
20:23:08 <spturtle> I don't think packagers get email aliases right now
20:23:09 <andre999> and hopefully will will have mentoring@mageia.org (or similar) redirected to all members of the team
20:23:55 <andre999> spturtle: Stormi thought they did - all least some people do
20:24:11 <andre999> but not me - but I'm not yet a full packager
20:25:11 <misc> well, while this is quite interesting, I think we start to be offtopic , so maybe the mentorting group could discuss this on its own meeting ?
20:25:23 <andre999> brianb_: re current progress -- there is already a field in the list, this will be put in table form, and updated by the team as well as mentors
20:25:39 <andre999> misc: ok no problem :)
20:26:10 <misc> andre999: not that i want to stop while the discussion is interesting, but I think irc is not suited for that, rather a ml
20:26:17 <andre999> I imagine I should put the proposal on the dev list ?
20:26:28 <spturtle> misc: can this work start on the mediawiki or still on the dokuwiki first?
20:27:07 <andre999> I'd like to start the wiki page modifications right away
20:27:21 <spturtle> ok then don't wait, very good
20:27:35 <andre999> misc:  ?
20:27:46 <misc> spturtle: mediawiki is not installed, so dokuwiki would be ok
20:27:51 <misc> andre999: yes
20:28:01 <andre999> ok -- will do :)
20:28:54 <ennael> mmm damsweb and ahmad are not around I guess we will invite them for next meeting
20:29:10 <ennael> still we need testers for QA for security updates
20:29:34 <leuhmanu> for all package in updates-testing ?
20:30:03 <andre999> I was originally planning to get involved in that before packaging :)
20:30:28 <zezinho> testers for QA for security updates : does it only mean activate updates-testing?
20:30:43 <zezinho> and report success or failure on the bug report?
20:30:53 <ennael> "only" yes :)
20:30:57 <ennael> it's about validation
20:31:04 <ennael> without QA no updates
20:31:08 <zezinho> I think I can help on that ;-)
20:31:12 <spturtle> a bit more, test specific features/problems fixed
20:31:13 <leuhmanu> i have see nothing about that on the qa list :/
20:31:20 <andre999> important process
20:31:53 <zezinho> so I should simply follow qa ml?
20:31:54 <ennael> dams mailed about that some days ago
20:31:59 <ennael> yes
20:32:10 <ennael> you will see candidates for updates
20:32:16 <ennael> it needs to be tested and validate
20:32:17 <ennael> or not
20:32:23 <ennael> rather qa-bugs@
20:32:25 <leuhmanu> mail on qa-discuss ?
20:32:31 <leuhmanu> ah :)
20:32:42 <brianb_> andre could your new wiki page be linked to qa?
20:33:07 <andre999> good idea
20:33:26 <ennael> https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/2011-June/005894.html
20:33:26 <erzulie> [ [Mageia-dev] Updates process is now available ]
20:33:34 <andre999> there was the general idea to have links to other areas of contribution
20:33:37 <brianb_> or maybe another page that list mantainers qa and bug squad members
20:34:02 <andre999> since those experiences can be useful to future packagers
20:34:44 <andre999> I think another page would be useful for qa and bug squad
20:34:57 <andre999> otherwise the packager page will lose focus
20:35:00 <ennael> ok anything else to add on topics ?
20:36:09 <zezinho> > subscribe qa-bugs
20:36:13 <zezinho> you are not allowed to perform this action.
20:36:34 <zezinho> looks like something's wrong
20:36:36 <misc> zezinho: using the web interface ?
20:37:13 <zezinho> no, I'm just trying with it
20:37:29 <misc> ( anyway, that's for after the meeting )
20:38:56 <zezinho> (still : success on the web interface)
20:41:43 <ennael> sorry network pb
20:41:52 <ennael> can we close the meeting ?
20:41:59 <Nanar> win 27
20:42:12 <ennael> Nanar: failed :)
20:43:15 <Nanar> ennael: touchpad ! touchad !
20:43:28 <ennael> ok no answer
20:43:33 <ennael> #endmeeting