18:08:44 <rda> #startmeeting
18:08:44 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Wed Nov 17 18:08:44 2010 UTC.  The chair is rda. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:08:44 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:08:49 <Qbashi> ok
18:08:56 <rda> #topic team setup
18:09:12 <rda> so, by the way, Inigo_Montoya is our meetbot. :)
18:09:21 <Qbashi> nice
18:10:31 <tumbeliina> :)
18:11:22 <rda> so, today's topics: 1. team setup, 2. some notes about the logo being discussed, 3. icons distribution change process, 4. if we have time, choose one :-p
18:11:40 <rda> I'd like to keep this one short (~30 minutes or less than 1 hour at most)
18:11:44 <rda> so, team setup.
18:12:51 <rda> artwork team tasks are, among others to refine: create, maintain, develop and ensure artwork for the distribution and the project. That can mean: icons, backgrounds, specific software design, website artwork and design, print documents, logo, derivatives, etc.
18:13:02 <ofaurax> hello !
18:13:07 <ofaurax> sorry for the delay
18:13:09 <rda> ofaurax: hi
18:13:11 <rda> no pb
18:13:17 <Qbashi> hi
18:13:21 <rda> I may forget some; all these go in coordination with other teams (marketing, communication, web, developers, etc.)
18:14:11 <tumbeliina> hi
18:14:26 <rda> but first, as a team, there are four roles (or three if the teams keeps small) to have: team point of contact (so newcomers, people can ask directions or quick questions about the team), team leader, team deputy leader (to lead and coordinate work within the team) and finally, team council representative
18:15:10 <rda> as the team is ... brand new, as others, as a general rule, we think it's good to first have just a point of contact person, and leave some time for the time to jell and have everyone know if s/he can/wants to candidate
18:15:23 <ofaurax> what is the difference between "team leader" and "team deputy leader" ?
18:15:39 <rda> ofaurax: if the team is getting large, it's to distribute the load
18:15:52 <rda> for instance, for the packaging team which is ... huge, there could be several deputy leader, per sub team
18:15:52 <ofaurax> ok
18:16:20 <rda> for a very small team (less than 10/15 people, a single leader may be enough)
18:17:02 <rda> the representative role is to make a bridge between the team and the council, to discuss/report/decide within the council so s/he has to coordonate (coordinate?) with the team
18:17:43 <rda> in any case, that needs to be enough available, depending on the team's pace, and depending on the council's pace.
18:18:17 <rda> so, no need to decide today, although a contact person could be good. :) (ah forgot, this contact person could be though of as a secretary for the team as well)
18:18:26 <rda> anyway, these roles will be refined by themselves with time
18:18:39 <rda> so who would like to be a contact person here?
18:18:56 <rda> #info team roles needed: point of contact, team leader & deputy team leader, council representative (not necessary today)
18:19:10 <ofaurax> perhaps we could begin by asking who has already worked in a similar work group ?
18:19:20 <Qbashi> maybe a person that is familiar with all these tasks
18:19:29 <rda> ofaurax: good point
18:19:33 <ofaurax> perhaps there are people that are better technically
18:19:34 <rda> Qbashi: which tasks?
18:19:47 <rda> this is not necessarily someone skilled at the team's specialties
18:19:49 <Qbashi> leading or coordinate
18:19:53 <rda> ha, yes
18:19:59 <ofaurax> and it would be a waste of ressource to assign a very good technical person to the contact stuff
18:20:03 <rda> but being a contact person is not the same, actually
18:20:12 <rda> ofaurax: it depends on the load, but I concur
18:20:30 <Qbashi> i'm more of a practical man what i mean is making art
18:21:04 <ofaurax> I'm very young at artwork
18:21:30 <ofaurax> (I'm primary a coder)
18:21:37 <rda> mastering or not the technique is not a requirement for being a point of contact.
18:21:51 <rda> leader/representative roles, you can decide on that later (december)
18:22:08 <rda> thing is, it helps to delegate slowly things :)
18:22:12 <ofaurax> yes, so if nobody candidates, I can be the point of contact
18:22:40 <tumbeliina> i got euducation for secretary, but also very bad dyslexia :(
18:22:45 <rda> ofaurax: ok, thanks. if you feel it's too much, or not really needed, just tell.
18:23:21 <rda> ofaurax: so, ok to provide your irc nick + email on the team webpage? or a provision about that?
18:23:33 <ofaurax> rda: no problem
18:23:42 <rda> excellent, thanks :)
18:23:43 <rda> #info ofaurax is the team point of contact
18:23:52 <ofaurax> we need a point of contact now, to make things happen
18:24:09 <ofaurax> you can also add my jabber ID, as ofaurax@jabber.fr
18:24:44 <rda> ok
18:25:28 <rda> #topic logo progress
18:25:37 <rda> so, we're a bit late on this.
18:25:49 <rda> proposals deadline was Tuesday of previous week
18:26:09 <ofaurax> disclaimer: I proposed one
18:26:16 <rda> we (founders) discussed and set the following process:
18:27:00 <rda> - short list the ~430 proposals to those that: respect most of our guidelines OR have some points of interest AND are not too obviously similar to existing logos
18:27:34 <rda> AND that were a little bit elaborate (not just a font test for instance)
18:27:51 <rda> AND that were not duplicates
18:27:56 <rda> in the proposals
18:27:59 <rda> we shortlisteed to about 77 proposals
18:28:34 <rda> and had to discuss next, whether we made a second pass or whether we were to propose this list to discussion now, listen, and then have the founding board shortlist again, and decide.
18:28:47 <rda> I will post this to -discuss tomorrow morning then.
18:29:13 <rda> ah, marketing team people have been notified as well, although their mailing list was just created yesterday
18:29:38 <rda> so, your input will be very welcome during this discussion phase, and after the selection
18:29:58 <rda> any question at this point? or shall I go ahead about this? :)
18:30:10 <ofaurax> The selected logo are here : http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/mgared/
18:30:20 <rda> ha, yes. ofaurax thanks :)
18:30:50 <ofaurax> mgared = ?
18:30:59 <ofaurax> mageia r.. ?
18:31:26 <rda> #link http://www.flickr.com/groups/mageia-art/pool/ full pool
18:31:32 <rda> red is the first color of a rainbow
18:31:44 <ofaurax> :)
18:31:47 <rda> we just had to find something to have several steps, just in case
18:31:56 <rda> so, next short list would be mgaorange
18:31:57 <rda> :-p
18:32:09 <rda> #link http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/mgared/ first short list
18:32:31 <tumbeliina> :)
18:32:43 <ofaurax> hi alexn83
18:32:52 <Qbashi> hello
18:32:57 <rda> alexn83: welcome!
18:32:59 <tumbeliina> one point, if i may?
18:33:03 <rda> tumbeliina: sure?
18:33:23 <ofaurax> alexn83: we discussed the point of contact (that is... me) and the logo proposals (selection in progress)
18:33:50 <tumbeliina> try to chooce logo with very few colors, at first atleast
18:33:51 <rda> alexn83: there will be a full log and summary of the meeting, once finished, so you won't miss everything
18:34:05 <tumbeliina> hi alexn83
18:34:21 <rda> tumbeliina: that's something you can bring in the discussion as soon as we start it.
18:35:04 <rda> but anyway, once we have decided on a proposal, we will need to work on it: refine it if necessary, have final source files, work on colours, make declinations
18:35:08 <ofaurax> I think that this is a requirement in the logo artguide : http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=artguide
18:35:14 <rda> as well as make usage guidelines (do's, don't's)
18:35:18 <alexn83> Greetings to all!
18:35:31 <rda> ofaurax: right
18:36:20 <rda> so, once a design is decided, the board will contact the author, make sure everything is in order and checked from the legal point of view, contact you all here to start the work plan on the logo and announce it.
18:36:25 <tumbeliina> rda, i'm thinking of money ;)
18:36:30 <rda> tumbeliina: that is?
18:37:10 <tumbeliina> many colors in print are expencive
18:37:18 <rda> tumbeliina: right :)
18:38:03 <rda> do you have any question/point regarding this process? (that is not strictly defined yet, but steps are here)
18:38:07 <tumbeliina> :)
18:38:26 <rda> #link http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=artguide logo proposal guidelines
18:38:59 <Qbashi> is grey a color that will be used for mageia like the website this can be a guideline
18:39:17 <rda> Qbashi: maybe, maybe not. don't take existing website for a reference.
18:39:20 <ofaurax> rda: is there a planning ?
18:39:22 <tumbeliina> http://www.flickr.com/photos/43049453@N04/5033431398/    < that is nice, but have too many colors
18:39:30 <rda> it was a quickly wrapped up website to start things quickly.
18:39:30 <ofaurax> what is the next milestone ?
18:39:52 <rda> ofaurax: well, my mail to -discuss should go tomorrow morning (won't be able to send it this evening).
18:40:06 <rda> we will let one week of free discussion, so that makes next Thursday
18:40:14 <rda> and then the board will decide over the week end
18:40:15 <ofaurax> ok, thanks
18:40:37 <ofaurax> rda: decide of another short list or what ?
18:40:41 <rda> so Monday, 29th is a good candidate to be a time when we will be set.
18:41:15 <rda> ofaurax: we will discuss this during the week. we need to explain on what criteria we reduce the second short list.
18:41:50 <rda> short listing will be quick, but making sure of the criteria is another thing. Caroline, Damien, Anne, Arnaud, Nicolas and me should meet tomorrow for this.
18:42:02 <rda> and actually, your input for such criterias is welcome
18:42:31 <ofaurax> rda: as I proposed a logo, I can't take part in the design of the criterias :)
18:42:41 <rda> ofaurax: 29th decision will be final.
18:42:50 <ofaurax> ok
18:43:05 <rda> ofaurax: good point :) but we reserve to use a criteria or not, and, anyway, the board decides :-p
18:43:36 <ofaurax> yes, so I'll propose, then...
18:43:40 <rda> the december alpha release may slip (we're really short on time) but the idea is to have the logo embedded in the first alpha
18:43:47 <rda> ofaurax: feel free
18:44:11 <ofaurax> rda: where can we propose the criteria ?
18:44:27 <rda> ofaurax: let me open a page for that, where I will document our first short list process as well
18:44:50 <ofaurax> ok, just tell me when the page is set
18:46:31 <rda> http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=artwork:logo_selection_process
18:46:34 <rda> here is it.
18:46:45 <rda> I will fill in the blanks for the first pass after
18:46:53 <rda> so feel free to add your ideas in the "orange" section
18:47:00 <rda> other points about this?
18:47:07 <ofaurax> it's ok for me
18:47:52 <Qbashi> ok for me to
18:48:17 <rda> #info logo selection process is documented on http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=artwork:logo_selection_process
18:48:37 <rda> #topic non-free icons/artwork replacement from source distribution
18:49:15 <rda> so, now, it's about what we will import from mandriva source svn and what we will need to remove (because parts of it are non-free-licensed artwork)
18:49:30 <rda> for instance, see mandriva control center icons (or all drakxtools icons)
18:49:38 <rda> there are sounds as well to check
18:49:46 <rda> ia ora theme is GPL'ed though
18:50:01 <rda> #link http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=artwork:icons
18:50:02 <Qbashi> are these the ones with mdk or drak in the name off the icons?
18:51:12 <Qbashi> that are non-free-licensed
18:51:17 <rda> Qbashi: maybe.
18:51:17 <rda> thing is, not being sure, we will remove most of what we know under the soft/ tree that has no explicit license
18:51:17 <rda> technically, what is likely to happen now is that:
18:51:28 <rda> - we will import the soft/ tree (the only that has this issue) in a temporary repository to be cleaned out (and for this task only)
18:51:35 <rda> - we will replace/remove what we can
18:51:45 <Qbashi> ok
18:51:48 <rda> - once it is clear, we will import this anew into a final repository for us
18:51:57 <rda> what this means for you as a team is:
18:53:07 <rda> - you should have a look at what icons set are impacted (there's a quick script I wrote for that, see above page that links to it)
18:53:07 <rda> - most icons are likely to be replaced by common icons sets
18:53:07 <rda> - some may need new work, or full replacement
18:53:33 <Qbashi> i made allready a replacement for control-center (not finished) http://www.linux-look.be/Preview-Mageia-Icons.html
18:53:36 <rda> moreover, this wil need some coordination with packagers (obviously)
18:53:42 <rda> Qbashi: excellent
18:54:14 <Qbashi> maybe that is the way to go but help will be needed ?
18:54:16 <rda> this replacement should occur for the first alpha, so without being in a huge hurry, preparing this task would be great
18:54:27 <ofaurax> ok
18:55:13 <rda> Qbashi: sure. but nobody has to feel pressured for perfection here. it is an iterative process and we just need to: clean up for alpha 0, then improve what we left unfinished
18:55:55 <rda> as a plus for following releases, there may be an improvement related to drakconf icon themes to do, but that is out of scope for alpha 0 (unless it's just too easy to do, but I don't think so)
18:55:55 <Qbashi> and what about the names do they have to stay?
18:55:56 <ofaurax> so perhaps we can 1) use icons from upstream when available 2) replace what is mandriva-style
18:56:09 <Qbashi> what i mean is like drak and mdk
18:56:20 <rda> ofaurax: exactly
18:56:27 <ofaurax> perhaps we could delay this question about icon for the MCC
18:56:35 <rda> ofaurax: that is?
18:56:57 <ofaurax> because 1) I think that some draktool could be removed
18:56:58 <Qbashi> because i may have a suggestion for this
18:57:07 <rda> Qbashi: I don't think it is an issue here. but if it can be easily changed for the icon and within the apps, let's do it. but again, this is to be coordinated with packagers.
18:57:15 <rda> Qbashi: go ahead?
18:57:23 <ofaurax> 2) we need mageia art guidelines for them
18:57:40 <rda> #info Qbashi made a replacement icons set for control-center in progress http://www.linux-look.be/Preview-Mageia-Icons.html
18:57:49 <Qbashi> change drak into DRON from caulDRON an mdk into MAG from MAGeia
18:58:11 <ofaurax> Qbashi: I think we could keep the names for the moment
18:58:14 <rda> Qbashi: :) why not. but I guess we can see that later
18:58:17 <rda> ofaurax: yes
18:58:24 <Qbashi> ok
18:58:28 <ofaurax> because the code must be modified too
18:58:31 <rda> what is important is to replace the artwork that is not free
18:58:38 <Qbashi> that is true
18:58:39 <rda> then, we will improve on that
18:59:12 <rda> ok, questions/points about that?
18:59:39 <ofaurax> rda: we can begin with a checklist of these non-free artwork
19:00:03 <ofaurax> as a first step
19:00:08 <rda> ofaurax: yes. check http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=artwork:icons where we listed most obvious places to check
19:00:31 <ofaurax> ok
19:00:50 <rda> and https://github.com/rdalverny/scripts that makes a HTML report of this (may be improved) + report against another repository
19:01:15 <rda> just in case it's useful
19:02:00 <ofaurax> ok, I'll look at it
19:02:01 <rda> who would like to lead this in this team? (to coordinate with packagers in charge of this as well and with me/the board)
19:03:25 * ofaurax is silent
19:03:25 <rda> (so we can delegate a bit of the overview as well)
19:03:29 <rda> ofaurax: ;)
19:04:15 <rda> ok, one can candidate any time later anyway :-p
19:04:40 <rda> so, now, we're one hour.
19:04:54 <rda> any other topic you would like to discuss about the artwork or something around mageia here?
19:04:59 <rda> or shall we close the meeting?
19:05:11 <ofaurax> when will we have the next meeting ?
19:05:17 <rda> ofaurax: ha, right.
19:05:27 <ofaurax> do we have a professional designer/creative to help us ?
19:05:29 <rda> one possibility, next week, same place, same time (or a bit earlier)
19:06:00 <Qbashi> maybe have a meeting ones a week same day same hour
19:06:00 <alexn83> Here my sentence on tags:
19:06:00 <alexn83> http:// www.flickr.com/photos/54316230@N06/5185286752/
19:06:00 <alexn83> While it only sketches
19:07:02 <Qbashi> nice
19:07:14 <rda> I won't silence that I would prefer a little bit earlier to manage my kids in the evening :)
19:07:31 <ofaurax> ok, so next week ?
19:07:43 <rda> alexn83: nice work
19:08:01 <rda> ofaurax: next Wednesday, 17:00 UTC would be manageable?
19:08:19 <ofaurax> yes
19:08:35 <Qbashi> paris time 17:00 ?
19:08:39 <alexn83> ok
19:08:46 <ofaurax> ouch
19:08:48 <tumbeliina> ok
19:08:57 <ofaurax> it's a bit early
19:09:12 <ofaurax> I can't before 19h Paris time
19:09:31 <Qbashi> if this is paris time that is too early for me i'm still working then
19:09:35 <ofaurax> or i'll be at work
19:09:36 <rda> ok, well...
19:09:58 <ofaurax> but perhaps we can make an half-hour meeting
19:10:03 <Qbashi> maybe later in the evening
19:10:07 <rda> ofaurax: yes, too.
19:10:18 <ofaurax> 19h-19h30 Paris time
19:11:01 <Qbashi> rda: after managing the kids ;-)
19:11:47 <rda> Qbashi: well... it's not only about the kids :-p
19:12:02 <rda> but let's do it for 30 minutes, next week, Wednesday, 19:00 Paris time (so 18:00 UTC)
19:12:06 <Qbashi> ok i understand :-)
19:12:25 <Qbashi> ok that works fine for me
19:12:32 <rda> I already have several meetings late in the evening the rest of the week, so the most I can dispatch, the better.
19:12:45 <rda> ok, so. anything else?
19:13:09 <Qbashi> for me its ok
19:13:23 <tumbeliina> me too
19:13:39 <rda> ok, thanks a lot every one for attending and for being part of this project! :)
19:13:53 <rda> have a nice evening and see you later
19:14:10 <rda> I will update the wiki pages about the logo process and post the email tomorrow morning
19:14:12 <ofaurax> rda: you too :))
19:14:20 <ofaurax> it's ok
19:14:27 <rda> #info next meeting will be on Wednesday 18:00 UTC same place
19:14:33 <rda> #endmeeting